Wyoming yes, but Gillette???

[gulfcoastbeemer]

I don't believe it is the intent of members who are critical of the '08 rally site to spoil the rally for anyone. At most, I think some are trying to understand how it came to be selected and prevent a reoccurance of, what they hope is, a temporary lapse in good judgement by the selection committee.

Someone proposed that there is an excellent fit between the MOA International Rally and ski resort areas. This seems to make perfect sense to me. Ski resort areas have it all -- mountains, lodging, restaurant facilities, the ability to handle large crowds -- and they are under-booked during Summer months, looking for opportunities to host major Summer events.

Like any real estate transaction, the top three criteria for a rally site should be location, location, location. If the best that can be said about the '08 rally location is you have the opportunity to ride through some really nice areas on the way to and from Gillette, one has to question the wisdom of its selection.

I'd like to learn more about the due diligence process exercised in the selection of a rally site. Something in the process has to be skewing the result such that a place like Gillette floats to the top of the list.

[kenk]

I'm just blowing off steam here, don't take to heart, old boy, you say and do (I know you will regardless) what you feel, and so will I! I'm just in a bad mood tonight.

I will just try my best to stay away from this thread, and the posts surrounding drop kicking Gillette 08 in the balls...gets me too upset...But, I would be happy to buy you a beer, and discuss what we have in common if you are in Gillette, I just need to quit reading the "stick Gillete up your rear" posts because well...I thought it was a neat Rally...I still think it's going to be a neat rally...hope to see your there!

Ps Kenk I don't drink, not for many years, so quit the "your bombed" insult...this is the real me! 24 7, as you should know by now!?

I think your opinion on Gillette and your constant hammering on Gillette is mistaken for what ever reason! Maybe it's you that needs some self examination...maybe? Why do you hate Gillette...ask your self, self examination, sort of a self run "mini mental", eh Kenk?

Sorry to upset you. It's not my intent.

I neither like or dislike Gillette and that's the problem in a nutshell. Like many small towns, they are full of good people just trying to earn a living. However, like many of them, I wouldn't spend my vacation there.

Although there are many good folks that attend the rally, I don't need to go to the rally to meet friends. I currently belong to four local clubs and three national clubs. At least once a week (I have one tomorrow Noon), I ride and have lunch with 30-50 other retirees, all on bikes. I rode 40,000 miles this year and other than to visit relatives the Dakotas, my destination was never a town like Gillette.

I think its important for all members to make their opinions known so next years selection committee at least considers them. Otherwise, many of us will continue to miss more BMWMOA International rallies than we attend.

[PGlaves]

I think its important for all members to make their opinions known so next years selection committee at least considers them. Otherwise, many of us will continue to miss more BMWMOA International rallies than we attend.

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

[Friedle]

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

AND, which ones did you attend?

Friedle

[Friedle]

Ski areas are usually located in beautiful riding enviroments, although I will remind you that there are ski areas in the Mid West with 400 foot vertical elevations that are the tallest things around for miles.

Ski areas are usually located on slopes, with little level ground, or they don't stay in businiess very long. While they often have enough lodging, there is usually a lack of facilities for vendors and often seminars space is inadequate for our needs on a national scope. Food costs are often very high and limited in choice. Camping can also be problematic as can finding enough ancilliary support services as we require at a reasonable cost given the relative isolation of many ski areas.

It's a tough logistical challenge for establishing a small motorcycle oriented city at a reasonable cost with volunteer labor for a weekend. That is not to say ski areas are incompatible with motorcycle events, as might be shown in the future.

Friedle

[gulfcoastbeemer]

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

Paul, I know your question wasn't directed at me -- and I've only recently rejoined the BMW brand after a 38-year absence, but I would be interested to get your assessment of the 1997 BMW MOA Rally in Texas.

Having ridden Texas Hill Country and the wonderful mix of surrounding small towns and large cities -- I would think somewhere in the Fredericksburg/Austin/San Antonio area would be a terriffic location for MOA Rally.

[gulfcoastbeemer]

Ski areas are usually located in beautiful riding enviroments, although I will remind you that there are ski areas in the Mid West with 400 foot vertical elevations that are the tallest things around for miles.

Agreed. We should eliminate all Mid Western ski slopes!

Ski areas are usually located on slopes, with little level ground, or they don't stay in businiess very long. While they often have enough lodging, there is usually a lack of facilities for vendors and often seminars space is inadequate for our needs on a national scope. Food costs are often very high and limited in choice. Camping can also be problematic as can finding enough ancilliary support services as we require at a reasonable cost given the relative isolation of many ski areas.

Being a past Rally Co-Chair, I am sure you speak from a position of personal experience, and your insights are helpful.

I was thinking specifically of Killington, Vermont as a Ski Area model. Even if you didn't avail yourself of the ski slope village as the base, but rather the City of Rutland -- maybe even the State Fair Grounds -- you have tons of lodging, restaurants, and EXCELLENT RIDING all at your finger tips.

It's a tough logistical challenge for establishing a small motorcycle oriented city at a reasonable cost with volunteer labor for a weekend. That is not to say ski areas are incompatible with motorcycle events, as might be shown in the future.

Friedle

From what I've been able to glean, the site selection criteria seems to place an emphasis on INDOOR vendors, INDOOR seminars, INDOOR stadium seating, etc. This emphasis on INDOOR everything seems odd for a community of people who ride motorcycles rather than cars. What's wrong with, or so labor/cost intensive about, contracting for tents where needed for vendors, seminars, etc.

If the BMW MOA Rally Site Search Team isn't looking into Ski Resorts, they are ignoring a gem in rough.

[dancogan]

Quite a few years ago my bicycle club hosted the national bicycle rally, in East Lansing, MI on the campus of Michigan State University. The school provided very reasonable room rates in the dorms. Nobody camped. They provided excellent food service, paid for on an "as used" basis. They provided very comfortable, air conditioned class rooms for the seminars. Although we did not have a lot of vendors, most schools have some type of hall or gym which could easily accomodate indoor vendors. So how about the beer? Well, it is an institute of higher education. Beer is never more than a short walk from anywhere on campus! But I'm sure a license can be obtained for special events. Has the site selection committee considered using a major school or university as the rally site?
Oh, we were quite concerned that the terrain and landscape in mid-Michigan would not thrill the riders who came from all over the country. To the contrary, they loved the well thought out maps and routes that were provided, and the many small towns they got to visit.

[PGlaves]

Paul, I know your question wasn't directed at me -- and I've only recently rejoined the BMW brand after a 38-year absence, but I would be interested to get your assessment of the 1997 BMW MOA Rally in Texas.

Having ridden Texas Hill Country and the wonderful mix of surrounding small towns and large cities -- I would think somewhere in the Fredericksburg/Austin/San Antonio area would be a terriffic location for MOA Rally.

I really liked the Fredericksburg Rally. It took a lot of guts for the Board to have approved it, and before it happened it had as much bad press as Gillette. Even though the rally was in June instead of July it was going to be way to hot - all that way down there in Texas.

Then the week before the rally there were serious thunderstorm systems in Texas and some localized flooding in the Hill Country. Word spread that the rally site was under water, that we would all be floated away.

As it turned out the weather was a lot cooler than either the York, PA or Madison, IN rallies (and several others). Local riding was good of course. Camping was excellent - motels a bit costly, etc.

[kbasa]

From what I've been able to glean, the site selection criteria seems to place an emphasis on INDOOR vendors, INDOOR seminars, INDOOR stadium seating, etc. This emphasis on INDOOR everything seems odd for a community of people who ride motorcycles rather than cars. What's wrong with, or so labor/cost intensive about, contracting for tents where needed for vendors, seminars, etc.

If the BMW MOA Rally Site Search Team isn't looking into Ski Resorts, they are ignoring a gem in rough.

There are some items that are better and more easily managed indoors. For example, vendors have thousands of dollars of material that's easier to secure when it can be locked in a room at night. Indoor stadium seating is nice, but not a deal breaker if it's outside. Indoors seminars allow for presentations that can be heard. Speaking in a cow barn outdoors, competing with the noise of bikes, people walking by and the like isn't the best possible situation, so we like indoors.

Additionally, there's always the very real possibility of rain and having indoor space for people to shop, listen and walk around in is welcome.

[widebmw]

I talked to a vendor at the Lima, OH rally and she said that she thought she was smart getting an indoor booth. She thought it would be air conditioned.
You fooled her.

[kbasa]

I talked to a vendor at the Lima, OH rally and she said that she thought she was smart getting an indoor booth. She thought it would be air conditioned.
You fooled her.

It varies by location, of course.

[kenk]

So out of the last ten BMW MOA rallies, which locations did you like and which ones didn't you like?

Out of the previous ten rallies, I have only had the opportunity to attend West Bend. I liked it. I thought the rally was well-organized and the riding was good around the site.

But that's the point. 88% of our members are not inspired by the locations MOA chooses to attend. If the rally is in a uninspiring location, I will ride to smaller local rallies like Sipapu, Petosi or Colorodo where I can enjoy the riding.

For the nine before it, I was a little busy deployed around the world serving my country. I would have attend Vermont or even Charleston, but deployments for the first and my wife's cancer during Charleston ruled that out. I could have attended Lima, OH, but could think of numerous places with better riding than Lima.

For many of us, it is about the ride and location.

[Rob Nye]

Gillette. hmmmm. nobody I mean NOBODY can convince anybody to smile about Gillette, you got to want to smile...and dream about the national in 08.

But the segment on this forum who are absolutely convinced to ruin the dreams of as many as possible of anybody who might have a dream of having fun in Gillette simply will not give up. Bound and detrmined...strike that FIXATED with the soul goal of convincing anyone who might be on the fence about having a good time at Gillette Rally not to go. Fixated in painting the rally, painting gillette, painting the ride to gillette BLACK Day after day the chant...the whine is the same.

Good god, are you all getting paid by some weirtd lobby group to try to destroy this national?

And don't tell me it's all because you care about the national or that if you don't speak up now other nationals are at risk of ending up in a place that's as bad or worse than Gillette...you care HA! Your point was made two months ago...Can it and let the rest of us enjoy our dream of a great ride, of a great rally, of a great opportunity to see old friends and meet new friends at the 08 Rally.

It appears to be a vendetta with the sole goal of ruining 08 rally cause you don't like Gillette, you don't like the location, sort of like a kid whose ice cream melt all over your hand before you had a chance to eat it; you are bound and determined to ruin everyone elses ice cream CAUSE YOU CAN simply by that nagging whine of an open mouth.

If you don't like Gillette DONT GO, QUIT WHINING sheesh enough of this horse manure.


for the record, since I am trying to be more civil...I respect your opinion, you believe in what you want, but I have to ask, please PLEASE just start a new thread, ok? Call it "NON CONSTRUCTIVE BITCHIN AND RANTING BY GILLETTE HATERS" You have the right for what ever reason to ruin it for the rest.... thata's your right. I just cant figure out why...

Red

ps go ahead tear it up...tear my opinion up, go for it...that seems to be what you do best, boys!

Plus like a billion.

It amazes me the length a few folks are going to and to what purpose?

My hero they are not.

[Rob Nye]

Greetings,

Ski Areas. As mentioned not enough flat space for camping except in dirt parking lots.

Killington. Yes huge place. Could easily support a National if there was no camping, however per person cost would be at least $75 per day before any rally expense or food. If you start start using Rutland state fairground we are back into a fragmented rally.

In Vermont there is only one site which is the Champlain Valley Expo. We were just there two years ago and yes it was one of the best sites of the last 10 for camping, vendors *and* roads.

University and college campus events.

When I was on the board this was researched in detail. Most colleges have activities all summer plus the grounds staff is very reluctant to allow motorcycles on the grass. We used a university campus in Charleston with field camping and dorm use. A little known fact is that while we were promised the use of the atheltic fields for camping the week before the event the Athletic Director said absolutely no way.

IMO the best solution I have heard recently is we give up on the policy of never going to the same site twice. I think we should consider the six to eight best sites (spread over the country) and have a rotation between them. The RSS would continue to look into new sites but it would relieve much of the pressure to come up with a home run every 12 months, especially when they are competing against memories of the best places.

I am willing to bet the grzzled rally rat wouldn't mind going back to Rhinebeck, Spokane, Redmond, Vermont or West Bend to name a few.