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Thread: Sad News for Pure Stodge and MOA

  1. #76
    bmdubyou
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    THis young woman has a problem...spending a whole nite drinking...whats the deal? cant have an enjoyable evening without getting snookered? Our society has a problem....alcohol is one of the biggest killers. I have NEVER seen any good thing come when people partake in drinking. Heck, at the rally, I watched a couple who could barely walk. At the "bier garden" there was plenty of it flowing. I went down there to listen to the music & felt a bit out of place since I was the only one who didnt have a beer in tote. And if you wanted something else to drink at the garden...good luck, unless all you wanted was water. its as if the bmwmoa was encouraging beer drinking. What if this woman had been drinking at the rally? That would've went over well.
    WHeres the outrage? A few months ago a local gal was drunk and gave some high schoolers a ride home. She stuffed 8 kids in her car and then wrecked it killing (I believe) 5 of them. Did this make national news? I doubt it. BUT...if a man wields a gun at a mall and merely injurs someone with it...its Plastered everywhere...nationwide. We accept drinking and driving and killing people but are outraged when a gun is used. I think the 21st amendment should be repealed. Once upon a time someone in our nation had some sense (and tried to put a stop to drinking). Gee, why would they even consider making booze illegal? Perhaps some of us are understanding that. Alcohol kills. I believe I read somewhere that Americans spend more on beer than education.

  2. #77
    Stage Crew beemerPhil's Avatar
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    Unhappy

    Originally Posted by turtlejan6447
    Ju as far as her having i .12 blood alcohol level, i don't see how that is possible with seven hours of sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by kreinke View Post
    That's because it's not possible. She would have had to consumes at least 4 drinks in a 2 hour period previous to the crash just to be lagally drunk at .08.

    Of course it's possible. She says she stopped drinking 8 hours prior to the accident? The average person metabolizes alcohol at about .01 BAC per hour. Working back 8 hours, she would have had a BAC at midnight of about .20. That's not impossible, or even unlikely- she's 27, out with friends, and got over-served. Unfortunately, it's not that unusual.

    There's no evidence that she has a chronic drinking problem, or that she doesn't, as far as I can see. It seems that she has no prior record, but that might just mean that she never got caught before- without a lot more background, I don't think we can say for sure one way or the other.

    And to use the term 'murder' in this case is just inflammatory- there's nothing to suggest that she had forethought or intent. This was an accident, plain and simple- what we prosecute is the contributory negligence that led up to it.
    She may be lots of things, but she's no murderer. Manslaughter is the appropriate charge.

    The 'morning after' can be a very dangerous time. The driver may not 'feel' drunk anymore, and without actually running the numbers as I did above, may reasonably suppose that he or she has 'slept it off'. But your body doesn't process alcohol any faster in your sleep- you may feel better, but you're just as intoxicated as you would've been if you were up all night.

    Cops aren't generally on the lookout for drunk drivers at 8AM- most of us don't think about drinking that early in the day, but as this case illustrates, drinking in the morning may have nothing to do with driving drunk in the morning.


    We all know that DWI, or DUI, is a dirty word in the courts and the media these days. Even if you're found not guilty, it's a bad thing to even be accused of. So I think we need have no fear that the court's disposition will be, initially at least, in favor of serious consequences for the defendant in this case.


    What does worry me is the subliminal public perception that the biker somehow asked for it, or contributed to his own fate somehow. A lot of people will go straight to something like "Oh well, he would have been ok if he was in a car" or "I bet he was speeding".

    Or worse yet, the unspoken attitude that a motorcyclist is somehow less important, and less deserving of legal protection than the next person.

    Janklow got a slap on the wrist because he was 'such a nice guy' and the victim was 'just a biker'. Those exact words don't appear anywhere in the trial transcripts, but you know they were present in the courtroom nonetheless.

    Those attitudes persist because we, and the courts, allow them to- and that's why it's important to write the prosecuting attorney and/or make an appearance at the hearing and the trial.


    I respect turtlejan6447 for sticking up for her friend, even though she must've known she was going to get flamed for it here. As another post has already pointed out, she certainly picked the wrong choir to preach to!
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  3. #78
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
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    Drinking and driving is never a good combination.

    I hope all who are outraged at this event never drink and ride their motorcycle.
    I used to post here, but now I don't.

  4. #79
    turtlejan6447
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    i am not claiming to know anymore than the DA does, All i have heard was from her or from her mom, from the day of the police report. I'm sorry if i have angered some people with what i said. I know that i am preaching to the wrong choir here, that is why i figured it would be best for me to be supporting her by her, instead of with the wrong choir.

  5. #80
    Stronger, Faster, Tougher iRene's Avatar
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    I respect people who support friends, but supporting her may mean standing with her as SHE takes responsibility and atones,
    not just making excuses for her in public.
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  6. #81
    JCABRANES
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    NO, she didn't do anything right, but I do object to the knee jerk reactions of those who are calling her a murderer. Manslaughter or criminally negligent, yes, but there was no intent to go out and murder someone. How about some more rational reactions?
    I too am short and slight, and I can tell you that one drink would be enough to make someone her weight drunk. (Yup, I'm a very cheap date!) There is another thread where many of you admit to speeding, crossing solid yellow lines etc. Has no one on this forum ever had one drink too many? Suppose only ONE drink was too many for you? Would you have the will power to never drink? After more than one drink, she wouldn't have the brains left to make any sort of sensible decision.
    I have trouble riding because of an injury years ago caused by a drunk driver. I don't condone drinking and driving, but I do try to do rational things to prevent it. The AMA has done major work on trying to increase the penalties for drunk drivers ever since one of your politicians with a HISTORY of driving drunk got away with killing a motorcyclist. They have also been raising money for a new "Hurt Report" on motorcycle accidents.
    So are you just ranting or are you supporting the groups that are trying to do something about drunk driving? Do you donate to MADD? Do you take the keys of any friend who has had a drink and thinks he/she can drive/ride? Time to put your money where your mouth is. Punishment is not going to bring Dan back. All my sympathy goes to his family and friends. It is a terrible loss that nothing will ever compensate for. The woman who hit him will pay for the rest of her life, one way or another, and it won't help.

    Holly
    She has been charged with homicide so by definition she has been charged with the murder of Dan Christ. But just so that we are clear, what happened to Dan Christ wan't the result of negligence, she drank to excess and she drove. Both of those are decisions that she made of her own free will. As a result of those decisions she KILLED Dan Christ. For you to try to minimize her actions verges on disgusting.

    BTW, the AMA and MADD have been contacted and frankly, have been of no assitance at all, their focus appears to be on the greater problem of OWI/DUI, and not on this specific issue. To them Dan Christ seems to be small potatoes. There is one organization that deserves praise for their quick response and support and that is ABATE.

    Before you continue to ride that high horse of yours let me also tell you that there are MANY people working behind the scenes here looking for ways to have a greater good come from this tragedy. When we fingure out the whats and hows involved we'll make the announcement. Then it will be time for you to put up or shut up.

  7. #82
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    Not true by definition nor by the charge.

    Homicide is a human killing another human. Homicide can be lawful (justifiable (e.g., carrying out a judicially decreed death sentence)) excusable (e.g., ((self-defense) or culpable (e.g., vehicular homicide, reckless homicide, murder).
    Murder is a specific form of homicide but not all forms homicide are murder.

    I only point this out for the sake of accuracy. While I personally think drunk driving resulting in homicide is an act deserving of society's harsher levels of opprobrium, it is not the same as murder with the various types of intent/extreme reckless disregard for human life required for murder.

    Under certain circumstances, drunk driving resulting in homicide should be charged as murder (e.g., the extreme disregard ...). However, once the State has classified an act (here vehicular homicide while intoxicated) as a specific crime it is hard to charge the act as a higher level crime (e.g., murder).

    In the interest of full disclosure, many years ago (in the late 1960s) a drunk drive killed one of grandfathers, one of grandmothers and a great-aunt (all in one accident) - in the early morning (they were on their way to church). His punishment was minimal - no significant jail time. I doubt he ever even thinks about the accident and the results. And yes, my family still pays for the loss. At least society now imposes some form of retribution on drunk drivers.



    Quote Originally Posted by JCabranes View Post
    She has been charged with homicide so by definition she has been charged with the murder of Dan Christ. But just so that we are clear, what happened to Dan Christ wan't the result of negligence, she drank to excess and she drove. Both of those are decisions that she made of her own free will. As a result of those decisions she KILLED Dan Christ. For you to try to minimize her actions verges on disgusting.

    BTW, the AMA and MADD have been contacted and frankly, have been of no assitance at all, their focus appears to be on the greater problem of OWI/DUI, and not on this specific issue. To them Dan Christ seems to be small potatoes. There is one organization that deserves praise for their quick response and support and that is ABATE.

    Before you continue to ride that high horse of yours let me also tell you that there are MANY people working behind the scenes here looking for ways to have a greater good come from this tragedy. When we fingure out the whats and hows involved we'll make the announcement. Then it will be time for you to put up or shut up.
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  8. #83
    Not available in stores.. PAGoldsby's Avatar
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    Two of turtlejan6447's previous posts have disappeared from the thread, and turtlejan6447 no longer appears in the "Members who have visited the site today" list.

    Troll?
    I can't believe how incredulous I am.

  9. #84
    Registered User REBGEN's Avatar
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    This MOA was my first rally and I was making my way home close to the same time of the accident on Hwy. 33 West. Dan lived about two hours East of me in Iowa City. This hits home for me on all kinds of levels.

    The apologist tone of turtlejan's posts make me sick to my stomach. This young lady obviously didn't intend to "murder" Dan. She did kill him though by blatant disregard of his and everyone else's safety by getting behind the wheel of a three thousand pound weapon while illegally intoxicated. Her ignorance, irresponsibility, and self-centeredness is what killed Dan and she should pay a very steep price for wiping out all of the future kids birthdays, high school graduations, wedding anniversaries, Christmas mornings, grandchildren, and the oppourtunity to wake up each morning and give his wife and kids a hug before work and school.

    Many years ago I started my career in medicine as a paramedic and later practiced as a Physician's Assistant with a specialization in orthopaedics. Between years logged in ER's, fatality/personal injury motor vehicle accident scenes, and surgical suites treating the injuries resulting from driving while intoxicated, I've wittnessed suffering and permanent life changes for many patients and/or their families.

    I agree 100% with sentiments regarding tough enforcement and toughening existing sentences for offenders. I don't want vengence but I DO want justice to be served. In order for things to change materialy for the better, harsh penalties must make it obvious, even to the terminally stupid, that getting behind the wheel while intoxicated is unthinkable.

    God Bless Dan's family...

  10. #85
    What, me worry? GILLY's Avatar
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    When you kill somebody, driving drunk, the piper must be paid. I'm not sure if they ask you if you're 'sorry'. Maybe in South Dakota....
    How about some more rational reactions?
    OK, how about if she's sorry only giving her 24 years? Fair?

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  11. #86
    Registered User Bullfrog's Avatar
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    This is most sad and very tragic. I hope that states could change a DUI/DWI fatal accident to murder vice manslaughter. I mean EVERYONE KNOWS that drinking impairs the ability to drive so as far as I can see it is a premeditated act.

    I pray for his family and friends and hope that justice is served.

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  12. #87
    Dum vivimus vivamus ted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAGoldsby View Post
    Troll?
    I'd imagine the defense attorney had a chat with her.
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  13. #88
    Registered User DougC's Avatar
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    I am now sorry I made my original post. The intent was to inform MOA members that we had lost good friends and riders on their trips home from the rally. I was hoping we would all provide support and prayers for their families.

    I find it troubling the posts to crucify the car driver when there has not been, that I have seen, a single comment from the family. A fight or crusade using DanÔÇÖs name or accident is better left to the familyÔÇÖs direction.
    Moderators please feel free to remove my original post.
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  14. #89
    JCABRANES
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    Quote Originally Posted by JWILLIS125911 View Post
    Not true by definition nor by the charge.

    Homicide is a human killing another human. Homicide can be lawful (justifiable (e.g., carrying out a judicially decreed death sentence)) excusable (e.g., ((self-defense) or culpable (e.g., vehicular homicide, reckless homicide, murder).
    Murder is a specific form of homicide but not all forms homicide are murder.

    I only point this out for the sake of accuracy. While I personally think drunk driving resulting in homicide is an act deserving of society's harsher levels of opprobrium, it is not the same as murder with the various types of intent/extreme reckless disregard for human life required for murder.

    Under certain circumstances, drunk driving resulting in homicide should be charged as murder (e.g., the extreme disregard ...). However, once the State has classified an act (here vehicular homicide while intoxicated) as a specific crime it is hard to charge the act as a higher level crime (e.g., murder).

    In the interest of full disclosure, many years ago (in the late 1960s) a drunk drive killed one of grandfathers, one of grandmothers and a great-aunt (all in one accident) - in the early morning (they were on their way to church). His punishment was minimal - no significant jail time. I doubt he ever even thinks about the accident and the results. And yes, my family still pays for the loss. At least society now imposes some form of retribution on drunk drivers.
    First Degree Intentional Homicide in Wisconsin has two elements (Wisconsin Jury Instruction 1010):

    1) The defendant caused the death of the victim; and
    2) The defendant intended to kill the victim.

    Contrast that with the charge that Ms. Schehr is facing:

    Homicide by Operation of a Vehicle While Under the Influence (Wisconsin Jury Instruction 1185) has three elements:

    1) The defendant operated a vehicle
    2) Defendant's operation of a vehicle caused the death of the victim
    3) Defendant was under the influence of an intoxicant at the time she operated the vehicle.

    In both cases the defendant must cause the death of the victim. That is the definition of homicide in Wisconsin. The other elements have to do with the specific nature of the charge. First Degree Intentional Homicide in Wisconsin is what I'm sure we all agree is murder anywhere else. Help me here because I really want to understand. Why do some of you want to classify this as something other than the murder it was? In some jurisdictions as you point out homicide is defined as an unlawful killing of a human being... again please help me understand... what is it that this woman did that wasn't unlawful? I'm really not trying to be a smartass here... I'm just trying to figure out where some of you are coming from.

  15. #90
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    In my humble opinion, your post was and still is valuable:

    1. Gave everyone notice of the incident;
    2. Provided expressions of support for the family;
    3. Raised the awareness of the dangers of drunk driving - to motorcyclists as potential violators and as a potential victims (especially as to the dangers of drunk drivers at 8:00 A.M.);
    4. Gave people an opportunity to express their support for enforcement of the laws in this particular case (e.g., by writing to the DA, attending the hearings if possible, etc.).

    The last sentence of the last full paragraph is, of course, on the money .

    Quote Originally Posted by DougC View Post
    I am now sorry I made my original post. The intent was to inform MOA members that we had lost good friends and riders on their trips home from the rally. I was hoping we would all provide support and prayers for their families.

    I find it troubling the posts to crucify the car driver when there has not been, that I have seen, a single comment from the family. A fight or crusade using Dan’s name or accident is better left to the family’s direction.
    Moderators please feel free to remove my original post.
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