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Thread: Was HODAG banned ?

  1. #91
    callmethebreeze
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    Well done men....


    Breeze

  2. #92
    univers zero tessler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callmethebreeze View Post
    Well done men....
    Breeze
    This validation is important, coming from Thom!
    Cheers on the whole resolution thingy, folks!

  3. #93
    How cold was it? shoeman's Avatar
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    Who cares?
    Jim Johnson, OP Kansas
    Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

  4. #94
    GSJIHAD
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeman View Post
    Who cares?
    I do and it appears many others do as well.

    The issue of HODAG being banned and current moderator practices and rules strikes at the heart of what it means to be a participant of this forum and seems to me to be a very important topic. A member of this club has been banned from a benefit of the club that he has helped pay for. At this point it's really hard to know what really happened as one of the individuals is not really commenting and one is forbidden from commenting. So, recap as far as I can tel; a member has been banned from participation (not just doghoused) in a club benefit that he has helped support financially but also very actively participated in with his time. This was done by another individual that appears to have banned him not because of the rule he broke but because he violated a command by the moderator to not talk about having been judged to have broken a rule. It comes across as kind of a - oppose my decision and bring it up for discussion and I will use my power to ban you- type approach.

    That being said, as far as I can tell Rob Nye has been a hero in many ways to this club (I've only got 5 years so I'm still a newbie). Countless hours of volunteering as well as holding a officer position should merit respect by all members. Yet anyone can go overboard and make a mistake. It seems to me, from what I have been reading, that HODAG does not deserve to be banned and should not have to negotiate with Rob in order to have his posting rights returned. He should be able to return and tell his side of the story and Rob should tell his side. This way, in a open discussion, the members can actually have a debate based on solid information and not speculation. It is clear a lot of the members on the forum care about what are perceived as moderator problems. Let's have a open debate, allow everything to be put on the table (personal attacks exempted of course) and start to move towards finding a policy that works for this club. What this is turning into is a HODAG vs. Rob Nye thread, which is unfortunate as the underlining issue is very important to whether other members of the BMWMOA who currently stay away will want to start contributing to the forum. Should one individual member be able to ban someone from the forum just based on that one persons view that the sentence is justified without some review by someone else?

    Personally, I would like to see a forum free of active moderation where action is only taken when actual threats, clear personal attacks, or foul language are used. Let the members self moderate the forum with a option to report potentially bad behavior to the forum staff. However, I understand that this is unlikely to happen. Strangely enough in the land of the free many these days seem to be afraid of free speech and see it as a negative practice that makes life, and forums, less enjoyable not more. One thing is for certain, simply having a committee get together without vigorous debate by the membership will only result in the same issues arising every time someone gets banned.

    Cheers

  5. #95
    How cold was it? shoeman's Avatar
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    There is currently an election on. The lines have been fairly clearly drawn as to where people stand. It is regretable when club elections are closely contested, especially over issues such as this. We have seen, in the past year or two, an ascension to power of people who have a clear direction and intent for the direction the club should be taken. With all due respect to key aspirants for offices they do not currently hold, not many with strongly contrasting views have stepped up to contest those in power. This either signifies a general acceptance of the direction the club is going or a general lack of interest in what happens in club politics as long as ON doesn't appreciably change (it hasn't in any major way) and they can go to a rally and have fun with other members with similar interest (the reason d'etre for the club). I believe the latter holds sway. If there are some rough spots on the forum, so be it. While a fair number of members are registered, the number of active participants, especially in the "Clubhouse" and the "Campfire" where most bannable activity takes place, are limited. So while a few members are concerned over Hodag's banning it, much like the Editor wars, will only succed in driving a few members out of either active participation or membership in the club.
    Jim Johnson, OP Kansas
    Marcus Aurelius: "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

  6. #96
    GSJIHAD
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    Quote Originally Posted by shoeman View Post
    There is currently an election on. The lines have been fairly clearly drawn as to where people stand. It is regretable when club elections are closely contested, especially over issues such as this. We have seen, in the past year or two, an ascension to power of people who have a clear direction and intent for the direction the club should be taken. With all due respect to key aspirants for offices they do not currently hold, not many with strongly contrasting views have stepped up to contest those in power. This either signifies a general acceptance of the direction the club is going or a general lack of interest in what happens in club politics as long as ON doesn't appreciably change (it hasn't in any major way) and they can go to a rally and have fun with other members with similar interest (the reason d'etre for the club). I believe the latter holds sway. If there are some rough spots on the forum, so be it. While a fair number of members are registered, the number of active participants, especially in the "Clubhouse" and the "Campfire" where most bannable activity takes place, are limited. So while a few members are concerned over Hodag's banning it, much like the Editor wars, will only succed in driving a few members out of either active participation or membership in the club.

    Some good points. I basically voted for the status quo as I feel the current elected officers are taking the club into a good direction. However, the forum is special in that members can have a up to the second place to express their views and the officers can use the forum as an additional tool to try and gage where the desires of the membership might be heading. Discussing these issues on the forum won't necessarily result in change by itself but it might plant seeds that ultimately do. Then again, some issues disappear. The ON Editor issue is a good example of something that died down because basically Vince came in and took away all the thunder from the arguments of those who were skeptical that ON would get better (except for those few who were just standing up for Sandy on personal grounds). I know. I was one of those skeptics. If ON would have went downhill I would still be hitting this issue on this forum as would many others. For all those looking at this as a HODAG vs. Rob issue then it will die a quick death as a discussion. And it deserves to. However, I really do feel the current discussion concerning the ability of one member to remove another members benefits unilaterally is very much a fire worth stoking. Sometimes fires burn out of control and need to be put out...other times they can provide some much needed illumination.

    Cheers

  7. #97
    Slowpoke & Proud of It! BRADFORDBENN's Avatar
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    Okay my turn...

    Well I have been biting my tongue but figure it is time to say a few comments. These are my personal comments and the way I handle moderation.

    1) I am still a relative newbie.
    2) I signed up early to the forum
    3) I volunteered to help on the website and the forum - ranging from editing the pages of the main website before the Editor change over to being asked to moderate a forum or two
    4) I was eventually asked to become a "supermoderator" which allows me to moderate in all forums
    5) I feel that less moderation is better.
    6) I usually spend about two hours a day reading the forums, I truly try to read every post.

    Up until recently it was fairly painless process and was just a matter of pointing people toward the right location to get an answer to their question, or help people with log in actions, or how to post a picture. Occasionally a thread of advertising would come up and we would have to look at it. Then there were occasionally trolls on the Rally Forum that is open to the public. So every forum has some of its own growing pains, it happens.

    I was by no way shape or form an insider in the process, I just happened to be interested in becoming involved. I never even met my "co moderators" until I had been a webteam member for almost a year.

    I have seen lots of people make assumptions about the way that the forums and the MOA works, and at times it is some what spiteful. Most of the people who are involved with the MOA are volunteering to help their fellow enthusiasts. If anything volunteering for the MOA is an expensive proposition, it ends up taking time and money. There are phone calls during meals, paying for travel expenses, missed time with family due to commitments to the MOA, and the list can continue.

    So when the accusations starts to fly, it becomes extremely distasteful to those who are volunteering their efforts. To be accused of various deeds without actually having any facts to back it up can be downright demoralizing.

    We are not all going to like one another, it is just human nature when you get more than two people at a gathering. Not everyone is going to get along. However here on the Internet people seems to be less likely to walk away like they would in person.

    There are threads up on this forum that I would personally like to close and delete. But that is not the metric I use. I use the metric of is it good for the community is it adding value. Is it attacking anyone?

    So I am not asking for a pity party or a round of thanks or anything. I am simply paying back into the Karma pool. I am enjoying helping others. Some times other stuff gets in the way and I just have to sit back and think... well this is how they have their fun.

    I also have been involved in a few of the previous time outs. These issues are not taken lightly by the moderation team. We discuss these issues and try to work through to an understanding that is best for the member and the MOA. Is there room for improvement? Yes, there always is.

    So I would recommend that we all take a deep breath and think about riding a fun road or hanging around the camp fire with friends, cause there are things more important than this forum in life; such as people.

    If you have questions, comments, or concerns you can always feel free to ping me, I have more then enough ways to get a hold of me listed in my profile.
    -=Brad

    It isn't what you ride, it is if you ride

  8. #98
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Mercury rides again

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    From: Mark Krause )
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    Sent:Mon 4/30/07 11:01 AM
    To:

    Hey buddy,

    Tell everyone to just let it die, not worth even discussing anymore. Its just the internet.


    I spent a good part of the day discussing it with Rob, and the only real thing accomplished was me developing a attitude of complete lack of caring about the situation. IÔÇÖve washed my hands of the whole deal and just walked away.



    IÔÇÖll see you at west bend.

    mark
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  9. #99
    GSJIHAD
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1ka View Post
    MOA forum
    From: Mark Krause )
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    Sent:Mon 4/30/07 11:01 AM
    To:

    Hey buddy,

    Tell everyone to just let it die, not worth even discussing anymore. Its just the internet.


    I spent a good part of the day discussing it with Rob, and the only real thing accomplished was me developing a attitude of complete lack of caring about the situation. IÔÇÖve washed my hands of the whole deal and just walked away.



    IÔÇÖll see you at west bend.

    mark
    M1KA- Thanks for passing on Marks messege.

    To Mark,

    Sorry to hear that HODAG. I've always enjoyed your posts. I would ask you to reconsider and just give lords of moderation what they want. You are right, it's only the internet but maybe your presence could help along this moderator debate-that is if you are allowed to discuss this issue if you return. There are over 20,000 registered users here but very few regular contributors. You are one of the more active members and many here enjoy your posts. So come on back, everyone will know what's up.

    A message to the forum board: As Moses said to Pharaoh: Let that HODAG go!

  10. #100
    Ahead of my time bigdelta's Avatar
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    Wish you would come back,Mark

    but I understand your frustration in dealing with Nye.I was there too.
    In 30 days he won't have any influence on any forum whatsoever.

  11. #101
    Registered User chasman's Avatar
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    JMO, but I think the reason there are "few regular contributors" is because some folks have something to say about everything or feel a need to stir the pot, regardless of the topic. Gets really boring for a lot of folks. I spend very little time on the forum for just that reason. Again, JMO.

    Going for a quick ride now before todays' central Illinois thunderstorm rolls in.
    Chuck Manley #12106
    2012 Howlin' at the Moon Rally Chair
    Ambassador, Knights of the Roundel #333, IBA Member, Life Member NRA
    Black '13 R12GSA (the Outlaw), Black '02 K12RS (157K)

  12. #102
    Registered User dancogan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasman View Post
    JMO, but I think the reason there are "few regular contributors" is because some folks have something to say about everything or feel a need to stir the pot, regardless of the topic. Gets really boring for a lot of folks. I spend very little time on the forum for just that reason. Again, JMO. ...
    Actually, it's not just your opinion. The vitriol after the VT rally sent me away, and I see it coming back. My reaction is the same as yours.
    Dan

  13. #103
    meh Rasbutan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasman View Post
    JMO, but I think the reason there are "few regular contributors" is because some folks have something to say about everything or feel a need to stir the pot, regardless of the topic. Gets really boring for a lot of folks. I spend very little time on the forum for just that reason. Again, JMO.

    Going for a quick ride now before todays' central Illinois thunderstorm rolls in.
    How do I join the CHASMAN club? You have an IBA #, a knights #......and a CHASMAN #.

    Does one have to be a Manley to get in? If so, there sure are a lot of you!!!!

  14. #104
    Can't Grow It?? Mow it!! bullit7801's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasman View Post
    JMO, but I think the reason there are "few regular contributors" is because some folks have something to say about everything or feel a need to stir the pot, regardless of the topic. Gets really boring for a lot of folks. I spend very little time on the forum for just that reason. Again, JMO.

    Going for a quick ride now before todays' central Illinois thunderstorm rolls in.
    And that's why I

    tb
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  15. #105
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasman View Post
    JMO, but I think the reason there are "few regular contributors" is because some folks have something to say about everything or feel a need to stir the pot, regardless of the topic. Gets really boring for a lot of folks. I spend very little time on the forum for just that reason. Again, JMO.

    Going for a quick ride now before todays' central Illinois thunderstorm rolls in.
    There is an underlying premise that I could agree with in this post, yet there is a hint of stereotyping that I am uncomfortable with.

    It is easily argued that the letters to the editor in ON have been more heated in the past year. I think that is a sign of long term growth, strength of the organization and wisdom in the hiring of Vince. He is an editor that is willing to print letters form various sides of an issue.

    The forum has been very vitriolic at times over my membership in it. I may not like it when it happens, but it is often the byproduct of forums that allow open discussion among members.

    Quantity is not an effective metric for valuing posts. Members have used savage bombs as their first post. Some of the most troublesome posts I have seen have come from posters with less than 50 posts to their credit. If I had just written a post welcoming each person that has joined the forum after I did I would have a post count in the range of 18,000 posts. I would have said and contributed nothing more than being a forum version of the Wall Mart greater.

    We currently have people posting ranging in years from 16 to 60 or more. Their interests in motorcycling range from short haul commuting to various forms of long distance riding. The website is continually becoming a more important part of the benefits of membership. How do we find a common ground and language among us?

    For me the answer is found in this line from About the MOA:

    ÔÇ£The goal of the club is to promote the camaraderie and friendship of individual members and BMW motorcycle clubs.ÔÇØ

    There will always be lurkers, sparse posters and the verbose. How we form our own posts as individuals and how we form the rules for the forum as an association has to be for a purpose. For me that purpose is summed up in that statement.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

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