Thanks for you comments Polarbear
I should hear something by next week. I am hardheaded and will not give up when I have not been done right. I told BMW USA that "I am the nicest pain in the butt you will ever deal with". I am very polite when dealing with them, but I do not give up.
Will keep you posted.
New poll up on whether the MOA should have a more proactive stance for it members
We can find out in a few weeks if there is any interest in a strong proactive advocate within the MOA in dealing with BMW NA concerning possible or known defects with our bikes and other pressing issues at hand.
So go the the Forum and look under Motorrad and you will see the poll titled "Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?"
Let see what happens
I don't blame you for not reading the whole post Motodan, I am tired of it myself.
[QUOTE=Motodan;883464]Sorry, not going to read the entire stream of posts on this BUT....Is this right....seals start leaking during warranty period, but for some reason or another they were never fixed (correctly)? Then 3-5 years later the engine needs replaced? Did the dealer not fix it correctly? Why wait so long to push the "I'll hate them for doing this forever button"? Is the dealer not the culpable party? Actually, I don't think I'd pay much more than they've offered you for an '05 with an engine that needs replaced.[/QUOTE]
You are correct, I waited to long to insist on a buy-back and should have gotten a lawyer years ago. I spent 3 years dealing with customer service that would not escalate my case up the decision ladder to someone that could offer a buy-back. And then talked to Anthony Cavanaugh for 2 years before he finally told me last month that my" bike in not repairable and the only solution is a new engine which would cost $9,000 and is more than the bike is worth". I tried to deal with BMW NA way to long and should have contacted a lawyer years ago. I assumed the BMW would do the right thing, I know I "assumed".
I hope other members with possible defects with their bike will not give the dealer multiple chances to fix the same problem, but contact a lawyer right away. It is not the dealer fault that BMW puts out a defect product from time to time. Maybe defects are rare but they do occur. So I don't blame the dealer.
So here is a brief recap of the repair history. Note: the dealer entered the incorrect mileage on some of the receipts.
It started off with the BMW Little Rock Dealer(now closed) pointing out to me while still under factory warranty the leaking seal to me and said that it is a not an uncommon problem on 2005 r1200gs.
2005 R1200GS vin: WB10317A55ZL77208 05-30-2012
Randy Holdford Collierville TN
07-14-2007 Miles: 12,555 First reported oil leak. Service writer said to monitor leak
04-09-2008 Miles: 15,444 Little Rock BMW Warranty 0004995-134
Defect Code: 1111584800 Shaft sealing ring
Clutch end leaking, installed new clutch
Clutch Plate BMW 21217697737, Shaft Seal BMW 23127683995, Drive Shaft Seal BMW23127656019
Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11117685005
10-22-2008 Miles: 3,847??? Little Rock BMW Warranty 0006037-1083
Defect Code: 2312004800 Sealing ring
Input shaft, front leaking
Transmission Input seal BMW 23127705086
02-04-2010 Miles: 27,538 Little Rock BMW Warranty 0008199-3346
Defect Code: 2312004800 Sealing ring
Input shaft, front leaking
Transmission Input seal BMW 23127705086, Compensating shaft seal BMW 1117685005
07-28-2010 Miles: 30,606 Bloodworth Motorcycles Warranty
Defect Code: 1127064800 Shaft sealing ring, Compensating Shaft
Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11117685005
05-20-2011 Miles: 36,438 Bloodworth Motorcycles Warranty
Output rear/ cylinder clutch
Output Cylinder clutch BMW 21527724542, Seal, Clutch M/C 23127705085
09-25-2012 41,183 miles Put bike in the shop on 06-04-2012 and picked it up 16 weeks later on 09-25-2012
Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11117685005 Compensating shaft seal
Input Shaft seal BMW 23127705086 Transmission Input seal
09-26-2012 41,287 miles Drove the bike 1 hour and had to return it because of a bad bearing.
Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 1117685005 Compensating shaft seal(rear)
Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11118528387 Compensating shaft seal(front)
Compensating Shaft front bearing 11147665326 Compensating shaft bearing(front)
Compensating Shaft front O-ring 11147665328 O-ring for front of engine for the shaft
Compensating Shaft Balance Weight 11277670337 Compensating Shaft balance weight
The seals started leaking again with around 42,700 miles on the bike. I have it scheduled for repairs the end of the month but might cancel the appointment and see if I can make it till winter to have the repairs done.
So far all repairs have been covered by the factory warranty or the 2 year parts and labor warranty. So looks like I will take my bike in for repairs once or twice a year and BMW NA will be paying for the repair cost.
The reason why I hit the "Hate them forever button" at this time is because BMW NA offered me the "generous" buyback of $1,241.17 for a bike that came from the factory with a defective engine and they now admit that it can never be repaired. I have been telling them that for 5 years. I sent a letter to BMW last month offering to buy a new f700gs from Bloodworth BMW if they would increase the trade-in allowance. Bloodworth offered me $4,000 for my bike because they are going to have to wholesale it and don't want it on their showroom. Normal trade-in should be around $5,500 to $6,500 for a bike with 41,000 miles. I told BMW NA that is they would allow a trade assist of $2,500 to Bloodworth to get my trade-in up to $6,500 that I would buy a bike out of Bloodworth's inventory. So all BMW NA to make me happy is throw in a $2,500 trade-in assist. But instead that offer $1,241.17 for a buy-back which is at least $4,000 to low.
That's what got me mad.
By the way, I don't hate BMW. I own two of their bikes. My wife rides a 2001 f650gs and has never had any problems with her bike.
Defect happen and that is to be expected. But it is how the manufacture deals with the defects that is important. BMW NA stalled for years and now when it is costing them $2,000 to $4,000 per year in warranty repair cost they decide that the engine is defective.
"known defect" is what the dealer called my leak when he pointed it out to me.
[QUOTE=lkchris;883356]Big stretch using the phrase "known defect" as I see very few others post with the same problem.
You really only have a case if the problem arose during the new bike warranty period. If so, you'll be better off hiring a lawyer rather than whining to a forum as the former's real world as opposed to the naive idealism of the latter. And, you know, there are plenty of lawyers specializing in suing drivers that hit motorcyclists but I've never heard of any specializing in suing manufacturers over so-called "known defects." Not any that don't injure anybody anyway.
But yes, of course the club should have a consumer advocate. An obvious service. Yes, it sounds scary if you're a volunteer officer but you hire an employee expert to do it. In fact all major companies seek feedback and the function could even be funded by BMW given a good, nonconfrontational proposal.
Of course typically when you're an elected officer only your viewpoint matters as you've been anointed and you know what's best for everyone else and don't really seek feedback. Plenty of officers have already stated this opinion in another thread. Feedback should be sought by the officers in an ideal world and not through polls on this forum started by others.
Sorry officers, but what counts is effect and not intent. That's how you look whether you intend it or not.
Would you really believe as a club officer that if you proposed creating this position to the membership that you'd get a negative response? Not likely, I think, and that makes it a matter of fear, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]
"known defect" I asked the dealer in Little Rock to check my bike out for any problems about 6 months before warranty was do to expire. The service writer went straight to the area where the leak was and pointed it out to me(I never noticed it before). The service writer said that "early production models tended to have this problem". So far 6 mechanics have tried to repair it with 18 seals and BMW NA has finally declared it a defect and an unrepairable engine. Both dealers that tried to repair the bike mentioned to me that early production models 2005 r1200gs were more likely to have this problem. So the dealers knew it was a problem and I imagine that BMW NA knew it when they kept getting warranty claims and I for sure knew it was a problem.
Here are some links to other sites that have reported this problem.
[url]http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229414[/url] [B]Beware bad language from this guy.[/B]
Good point lkchris except I bought the bike with 3,200 miles on it.
[QUOTE=tgf429;883590]I understand and I would be upset too, but mostly at my self. You made a choice and now have to live with it. It's not always the world we hoped for but it's the reality we must accept. Your pretty much screwed yourself.....I would have had the bike returned under the lowa lemon law early on.[/QUOTE]
In TN you have to be the original purchaser to file under the Lemon Law and I bought the bike with 3,200 miles on it from a BMW dealer in Oklahoma City, which by the way is now closed. I should have filed under small claims court and am finally talking to a lawyer. I thought BMW NA would makes things right, but I was wrong. Which is why I now say when your are not getting satisfaction from BMW NA or your dealer then contact a lawyer. I don't like dealing with lawyers but sometimes you have no choice.
All right, I will admit it. I was a fool to wait so long. I hope other reading this post will not wait.
Just seeps sometimes, but on a few of the seal replacements were because of drips.
[QUOTE=pffog;883804]Help me out here, is this a leak, that drops oil on the floor, or a seep that collects dust on the bottom of the engine/trans??[/QUOTE]
This is the tell tale sign of a counterbalance or engine out put leak. Even a small leak over time can contaminate your clutch. Had to have first clutch replaced at 17,000 miles.