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[QUOTE=tommcgee;834482]This came from the net:
Sentences like "I would encourage all citizens to thank the veteran for their service" are part of the problem. A small step in de-glorifying war is to stop using "service" as a synonym for the military. The words we use are critical to our thoughts, which direct our actions.
Here's a simple non-invasive way to help those with trauma and everyone - use the word "military" in place of "service". I got tired of people saying "thank you for your service". I give them my card titled "Please Don't Thank Me For My Service". It goes on - "I was in the military, not the "service". Service is doing something good. Service is what the person does who fixes your car. When the word "service" is applied to the military, it helps to justify violence as a method of conflict resolution. Like "defending our freedom" or "bringing democracy", the word "service" is used to lower the barriers of aggression. The military solution to conflict is death and destruction. That's not service. Call it what it is - the military."
Posted by ARNY STIEBER on Oct 21st, 2012[/QUOTE]
It would be interesting to find out if Arny Stieber has a similar attitude for the actions of those who are, or have, served in our communities as law enforcement officers, firefighters, or EMS personnel?
Considering that we have a volunteer military, those who enlist today are making an active choice to give of their of time, talent, and possibly their life if needed. With out an active draft, there is NO question in my mind that term "service" is properly used in today's military. I don't see how anyone can call it anything less if they truly understand that those serving in our military today are stepping up to the plate with a true willingness to defend our freedoms, our Constitution, and the life of Americans world wide.
Those who served in our military under the constraints of a draft also gave of their time, talents and sometimes their life. Should their giving be counted as anything less because they have served under slightly different circumstances? I think not.
Personally, I can't help but give credit to all that have served(and their families) from the Minuteman and Continental Soldier to our present day.
Thank you, all, for your honorable service.
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I would like to thank all those who protected us while in the Military.
P.S. I don't think the focus should be on what words are used. Rather, one should consider the meaning behind the gesture not the just the words. Keep in mind those of us who have not served in the Military know next to nothing about it, so try to give us a little slack.
Thanks again.
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To me, the thanks comes under the title of too little, to late.
It rings of "political correctness", and is overused to the degree of the word "awsome", and makes me cringe. Since returning from SE Asia in 1971 I've had exactly 2 people thank me and in both cases it surprised me. The first person said it in sincerity. As to the second person...see above.
I'm happy that todays military members don't have to endure the outright scorn & hatred that we did when we returned, but the popular "Thank you for your service" that you hear repeated time and time again each day (to me) smacks of incincerity.
I enlisted due to a sense of duty, because my Dad & 4 of his brothers served in WW2 (and was raised with this value). I don't expect thanks, nor want it. It was a choice I made on my own.
Ken
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My son has twelve years in the "military" and plans on staying in. He has been through four trips to the Middle East, both Iraq and Afghanistan. He has a wife and two boys that he goes for long periods without seeing. I wasn't in the military; I have no idea what it gives or takes away from a person. I do know how hard it can be on a man or woman and their families to be separated for long periods especially when the man or woman is in a very dangerous situation. Yes this is the life he has chosen, it wasn't forced on him. On the other hand I have come to realize that all who are or have been in the military have dealt with these and other issues as well. It is for this reason that I offer my thanks. My thanks are sincere. I had no intention of starting such a debate and I apologize for any offense. Trust me, it won't happen again here or anywhere else.
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Happy Veteran's Day to my son Brad!
Formerly 1st Battalion, 7th Marines (USMC)*
Formerly 82nd Airborne Division (US ARMY)*
* Two Tours in Iraq
Currently 4th Infantry Division (US ARMY) :usa
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Navy dad, Stop for a moment here. There is no reason for you to apologise for starting the thread nor for the sentiment you expressed. It was not and is not "controversial".
I respect and accept Tom's opinion regarding the terms service and military service. He has that option to have that opinion because of his service and I will not deride him for it, because of his service to the country. He earned it including the right to decline the thanks of his peers and society. On the other hand do not take his refusal to include the wishes of the rest of his Brothers and Sisters in Arms. It is an individual thing.
The term "service" has been in use and in correct form, IMO, as related to time spent in the Military, placing one's self in harms way for the benefit of the country, population or our society if you will, from before WW1.
I do not equate the concept of working on some one's vehicle to the same level of commitment of a service member in the Armed Forces. While the term can be loosely applied to both situations the connotation for many of us, again IMO, is far different unless you decide to accede to the PC position. The English language has many words that can have multiple meanings depending on the connotation of their use. It does not make the term incorrect by itself.
I started my Military career, such as it was, in the early 70s. I did so for my own reasons and do not regret that choice. I watched and also experienced a bit of the disdain some of the "enlightened" folks of the time had for those of us who either by choice or circumstances were placed in the service. My time spanned that era into the beginning of society's recognition of what the folks in the Military were doing and sacrificing in order to serve. It really did follow along with Kipling's poem describing society and "Tommy".
My sig line sums up my feelings regarding Service in the Military and also for those who place themselves in harms way for strangers in the first responder role. While my own personal contributions may not merit the thanks of the those who did not serve I will gladly receive them in honor of those who's actions did deserve them and never got them. I didn't earn them, they did.
In short, please do not allow yourself to feel bad because one of us doesn't want the recognition. There are always others who did earn it and never got it and who would be grateful for it. Pass it on to them.
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He or she is "in the service" is (or was) a common prhrase.
It's only ever used to refer to the Military.
While grammar police, etc., may reject the notion, the semantic jump to "thanks for your service" isn't wholly unwarranted.
It's a bit of a leap to conclude someone using the phrase isn't sincere in doing so. It doesn't accomplish much positive for sure.
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Semantics aside, my thanks to all who "served". I gave four years during the Viet Nam "Conflict" (talk about semantics, we couldn't even call it a war). When I returned to the States I was "thanked" for my "service" by getting spit on at the bus station in New Jersey. While there is obviously at least one individual out there who (as is his right) takes offense at the word "service", I "served" and if our county (which could not do it upon my discharge) now wishes to thank me for my "service", I will acknowledge the intended sentiment with grateful appreciation without doctrinaire quibbling over their choice of words.
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Holy cow! Accept the expression of gratitude in the spirirt it was offerered. If the use of a particular term irratates you then, please grin and bear it, and assume that no ill will was intended. I cannot imagine anyone ever uttered the phrase, "Thank you for your service." with the intent to offend.
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[QUOTE=tommcgee;834482]This came from the net:
Sentences like "I would encourage all citizens to thank the veteran for their service" are part of the problem. A small step in de-glorifying war is to stop using "service" as a synonym for the military. The words we use are critical to our thoughts, which direct our actions.
Here's a simple non-invasive way to help those with trauma and everyone - use the word "military" in place of "service". I got tired of people saying "thank you for your service". I give them my card titled "Please Don't Thank Me For My Service". It goes on - "I was in the military, not the "service". Service is doing something good. Service is what the person does who fixes your car. When the word "service" is applied to the military, it helps to justify violence as a method of conflict resolution. Like "defending our freedom" or "bringing democracy", the word "service" is used to lower the barriers of aggression. The military solution to conflict is death and destruction. That's not service. Call it what it is - the military."
Posted by ARNY STIEBER on Oct 21st, 2012[/QUOTE]
I must disagree to some extent Tom. I certainly do not want to glorify war. I lost comrades and still suffer ills from my my time in the military, but the fact is that sometimes violent action is the only solution to a problem. Yes, too often it is used too soon or inappropriately, but sometimes it is the proper responnse. If our nation ever loses it's capacity and willingness to use military force to protect our interests we will be in dire straights. The wisdom to know when and how to use it must also be there. When I was entering the "service" my father, a career Army Officer and veteran of three years in WWII, two years in Korea and a year in Vietnam talked to me about the meaning of the word service. He described it as acting on behalf of a greater cause without considereration for what I would get in in return. I was proud to "Servive."
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[QUOTE=Motor31;834646]Navy dad, Stop for a moment here. There is no reason for you to apologise for starting the thread nor for the sentiment you expressed. It was not and is not "controversial".
I respect and accept Tom's opinion regarding the terms service and military service. He has that option to have that opinion because of his service and I will not deride him for it, because of his service to the country. He earned it including the right to decline the thanks of his peers and society. On the other hand do not take his refusal to include the wishes of the rest of his Brothers and Sisters in Arms. It is an individual thing.
The term "service" has been in use and in correct form, IMO, as related to time spent in the Military, placing one's self in harms way for the benefit of the country, population or our society if you will, from before WW1.
I do not equate the concept of working on some one's vehicle to the same level of commitment of a service member in the Armed Forces. While the term can be loosely applied to both situations the connotation for many of us, again IMO, is far different unless you decide to accede to the PC position. The English language has many words that can have multiple meanings depending on the connotation of their use. It does not make the term incorrect by itself.
I started my Military career, such as it was, in the early 70s. I did so for my own reasons and do not regret that choice. I watched and also experienced a bit of the disdain some of the "enlightened" folks of the time had for those of us who either by choice or circumstances were placed in the service. My time spanned that era into the beginning of society's recognition of what the folks in the Military were doing and sacrificing in order to serve. It really did follow along with Kipling's poem describing society and "Tommy".
My sig line sums up my feelings regarding Service in the Military and also for those who place themselves in harms way for strangers in the first responder role. While my own personal contributions may not merit the thanks of the those who did not serve I will gladly receive them in honor of those who's actions did deserve them and never got them. I didn't earn them, they did.
In short, please do not allow yourself to feel bad because one of us doesn't want the recognition. There are always others who did earn it and never got it and who would be grateful for it. Pass it on to them.[/QUOTE]
Well said, and NavyDad thankyou, from a 30 year vet...
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[QUOTE=AKBeemer;834681]I must disagree to some extent Tom. I certainly do not want to glorify war. [/QUOTE]
Those weren't my words, just posted them to illustrate that a whole bunch of us don't want thanks and the reasons are many. Like several others here, the thanks we got from our own countrymen after Vietnam was verbal abuse and more. That was the time a kind word would have been useful. 40+ years later I'll be gracious if someone says thanks to my face, but no one ever has.
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It just dawned on me that my Uncle Walter has been alive for every Veteran's day that we have had! On 11/11/1918 he was 21 months old. Today he is still going strong at 95 and is a WWII Navy Veteran!
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Navy Dad,
Please don't take my comments to be disparaging toward you. That was not at all my intent. Perhaps I'm from the "conflict" which was not much appreciated at the time therefore not a good barometer....it still seems to me however that it is being much overused and oftimes comes across (to me personally) as patronizing.
Thanks for the recognition of the members of our military and I take your thanks as sincere.
I've thanked servicemembers numerous times, but always try and do it in a very personal way and avoid the "standerdized Thanks for your service".
I guess that's just my personal view however.
I'm very happy that todays members are received much more graciously than we were.
Ken
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[QUOTE=Motor31;834646]Navy dad, Stop for a moment here. There is no reason for you to apologise for starting the thread nor for the sentiment you expressed. It was not and is not "controversial".
I respect and accept Tom's opinion regarding the terms service and military service. He has that option to have that opinion because of his service and I will not deride him for it, because of his service to the country. He earned it including the right to decline the thanks of his peers and society. On the other hand do not take his refusal to include the wishes of the rest of his Brothers and Sisters in Arms. It is an individual thing.
The term "service" has been in use and in correct form, IMO, as related to time spent in the Military, placing one's self in harms way for the benefit of the country, population or our society if you will, from before WW1.
I do not equate the concept of working on some one's vehicle to the same level of commitment of a service member in the Armed Forces. While the term can be loosely applied to both situations the connotation for many of us, again IMO, is far different unless you decide to accede to the PC position. The English language has many words that can have multiple meanings depending on the connotation of their use. It does not make the term incorrect by itself.
I started my Military career, such as it was, in the early 70s. I did so for my own reasons and do not regret that choice. I watched and also experienced a bit of the disdain some of the "enlightened" folks of the time had for those of us who either by choice or circumstances were placed in the service. My time spanned that era into the beginning of society's recognition of what the folks in the Military were doing and sacrificing in order to serve. It really did follow along with Kipling's poem describing society and "Tommy".
My sig line sums up my feelings regarding Service in the Military and also for those who place themselves in harms way for strangers in the first responder role. While my own personal contributions may not merit the thanks of the those who did not serve I will gladly receive them in honor of those who's actions did deserve them and never got them. I didn't earn them, they did.
In short, please do not allow yourself to feel bad because one of us doesn't want the recognition. There are always others who did earn it and never got it and who would be grateful for it. Pass it on to them.[/QUOTE]
Well put!! :usa
