The Wethead has arrived....

[QUOTE=Herr_Eugen;824848]Paul,
I'd appreciate YOUR analysis of the difference/benefits of the old vs. new rather than a restatement of the BMW promo...[/QUOTE]

Well, since the bike just debuted and the press kit was a few hours old when I posted that it seemed newsworthy at the time. Like most of us, I have not seen the bike, touched the bike, or of course ridden the bike.

Purely from an observational perspective there are some elements of the design that I see as leaps forward.

1. The wet clutch at the front of the engine means the bike doesn't have to be half disassembled to replace a clutch and there should be no need for clutch hub spline lubrication.

2. The top to bottom mixture flow with fewer bends in the intake/exhaust path should improve efficiency.

3. Cruise control is a big plus.

4. I think the water cooling is a big plus.

There are some things I wonder about.

1. Cylinders cast as part of the block. Would I have to split the cases to replace worn rings?

2. Is the permanent magnet alternator as prone to stator problems as the F twins seem to be?

3. Will there be clearance to do that simple up-front clutch replacement, or does the whole front end need to come off to remove the front cover?

These are just top-of-the-head observations. Once I see the bike, and once a bunch of folks get a bunch of miles, we'll know more.

Paul,
Those are interesting insights. As you point out, only time will tell. Unfortunately, its the buyers that will be the beta testers.

[QUOTE=Acejones;826102]Paul,
Those are interesting insights. As you point out, only time will tell. Unfortunately, its the buyers that will be the beta testers.[/QUOTE]

That is always true. I do have to say that we have had good results with 1st year bikes. My original K75T was a first year bike, albeit following a couple years of the K100. My F650 Funduro was a 1st year bike and Voni's R1100RS was a first year Oilhead - very first year like one of the first 6 into the U.S.

The K75 was almost trouble free in its 370,000 miles. The R1100RS had an early transmission issue - replaced under warranty - but that was about it for "issues" in its 360,000 miles.

But I do understand the beta bike issue - we just haven't been bitten (yet).

[QUOTE=PGlaves;826107]But I do understand the beta bike issue - we just haven't been bitten (yet).[/QUOTE]

Owning a wedge 4, good training.

[QUOTE=PGlaves;826056]
There are some things I wonder about.

1. Cylinders cast as part of the block. Would I have to split the cases to replace worn rings?
[/QUOTE]

I'm shocked to learn that ... and it seems like a dumb idea. :scratch It seems to negate at least one of the inherent advantages of the boxer engine.

I like the idea of the traditional boxers where u can pull a jug in a jiffy, just like an old air cooled VW or Lycoming / Continental aircraft motor.

[QUOTE=Norms 427;826161]I'm shocked to learn that ... and it seems like a dumb idea. :scratch It seems to negate at least one of the inherent advantages of the boxer engine.

I like the idea of the traditional boxers where u can pull a jug in a jiffy, just like an old air cooled VW or Lycoming / Continental aircraft motor.[/QUOTE]

I suspect one of the reasons the cylinders are cast with the block is to eliminate the possibility of leaks. Every gasket presents the possibility of a leak. Does any other water cooled engine have removeable cylinders other than large diesel engines? Water cooled boxer engines don't seem to have an issue. Honda Goldwings and Subarus have long had a reputation of lasting a very long time.

[QUOTE]1. Cylinders cast as part of the block. Would I have to split the cases to replace worn rings?[/QUOTE]

This is what happens when you let car engineers design bikes. On a lighter note, maybe you can access the connecting rod bolts from the oil pan or other access panels. Surely, you might need a $300 BMW tool.

[QUOTE=stkmkt1;825429]I am hung up on the wet clutch. I know most motorbikes now have them. But, one of the reasons the boxer engine enjoyed a typical longer life than other types of engines on bikes was because of the dry clutch. Now you will have clutch contaminants in your engine oil. This will shorten the life of the engine.

Paul, anyone with real-world mechanical knowledge? Can you confirm I am correct?[/QUOTE]

Bikes like Honda's Goldwing & ST1300's plus others have used the combined oil for engine & tranny for years with no problems, and longevity with the Wings & ST1300 is not an issue. They both rack up serious miles with no issues.

BMW ( other than Ducati ) is now joining the rest of the motor bike world. The dry clutch certainly had its issues as well.

[QUOTE=cycleman2;826820]Bikes like Honda's Goldwing & ST1300's plus others have used the combined oil for engine & tranny for years with no problems, and longevity with the Wings & ST1300 is not an issue. They both rack up serious miles with no issues.

BMW ( other than Ducati ) is now joining the rest of the motor bike world. The dry clutch certainly had its issues as well.[/QUOTE]
BMW has been using the wet clutch for years now in the wedge K12/K13/K16's -- there is zero reason to be making an issue out of the wethead's wet clutch.

[QUOTE=mneblett;826822]BMW has been using the wet clutch for years now in the wedge K12/K13/K16's -- there is zero reason to be making an issue out of the wethead's wet clutch.[/QUOTE]

That feature saves weight, increases rigidity and potentially reduces cost (reduced part count, fewer fasteners and less machining). I don't necessarily see that as a negative assuming the cylinder's durability is acceptable.

Kent

[QUOTE=jnrugg;825158]" the secondary drive now runs via the well-established cardan shaft"

Is this a good thing?
What did it run before if it's well established?


:dance[/QUOTE]

My first guess is sort of a heart shaped cross section shaft and hollow tube instead of a square or symmetrically splined shaft. My farm mower has one between the u joints. It can't be assembled with the wrong orientation.

As Paul has stated, it will be a lot easier to replace the clutch. But more importantly you will not have to worry about a seal leaking oil on your dry clutch.

One item I haven't heard about

Does the new bike use BMWs current electronic diagnostics so the GS 911 is adaptable to it or does it employ some new interface design that will require new diagnostic tools? One can troubleshoot without such stuff but it sure speeds things up in many cases.

When the first RepROM disc for it becomes available we'll get to see what it really will take to maintain it but BMW has been pretty good at reducing maintenance over the past decade. (I got a recent reminder of that by adding an 06 K1200GT to the garage to go with an 08 RT and a couple earlier BMWs that I ride or service for folks. The K bike is probably about twice the work to maintain of the R bikes...)

[QUOTE=osbornk;826179]I suspect one of the reasons the cylinders are cast with the block is to eliminate the possibility of leaks. Every gasket presents the possibility of a leak. Does any other water cooled engine have removeable cylinders other than large diesel engines? Water cooled boxer engines don't seem to have an issue. Honda Goldwings and Subarus have long had a reputation of lasting a very long time.[/QUOTE]

All very accurate but don't forget the fact this reduces costs of assembly significantly. I'm sure also it's a more "green" method of assembly.

Also don't forget that of all the priorities, DIY maintenance ease is way down on the list. And note that catering to those who "want" to do maintenance is pretty well dismissed, too. Eliminating clutch spline lubrication does make DIY maintenance more easy because you don't have to do it.

It's a REALLY small portion of the market for these bikes that includes those that want to accomplish multi-hundred thousand mile mileages on their bikes and then fix them themselves, and the rest of us shouldn't have to pay the extra cost inherent in that sort of design.

[QUOTE=racer7;828180]
Does the new bike use BMWs current electronic diagnostics so the GS 911 is adaptable to it or does it employ some new interface design that will require new diagnostic tools?[/QUOTE]

I believe Hexcode has said that the new bike will need a new version of the GS-911. Apparently the new GS is similar to the K1600 which uses the third generation of BMW diagnostic tools. Hexcode says:

[quote]The motorcycles with Generation 3 Diagnostics will require a new generation of GS-911... Our next generation is something that we've been developing behind the scenes for quite some time (however no fixed ETA available yet, as there is still a mountain of work to do on the new protocols!)
[/quote]