E10/E15 gasoline

Hey all,

Whats the word on E15? Its going to be sold in the U.S. I hear. Ive read some people use gasoline additives but do they really even work? How do we prevent our vintage airheads from damage?

I've been using it for years in my R100/7, no issues. Its a fake lead additive and has completely stopped valve adjusts, last 100000+m.. One bottle of this goes 40+ tanks of gas, with my Heinrich 9 gallon tank:). I have 380000m on this bike, original valves. It only takes a half ounce per tank(my use) and is concentrate that lasts years per bottle. CD-2 Company, Chicago 60638. 32oz bottle says, 1oz treats 10 gallons. I've nearly gone through one whole bottle and never looked back, works great, no issues at all. Your Ethanol question still worries most, including me. Ive been looking lately for another CD2 bottle and my auto parts has dropped it:(. Maybe a California thing! Randy

I have used the Redline lead substitute (turns the plugs a bit pink), which uses the same mix ratio as CD-2 . I still have some CD-2, but it's fairly old. It seems CD-2 is no longer made.

I heard rumors that the E15 may be phased out... but that is just rumor based on poor corn crops.

We were talking about additives at bike night last Thursday and then I happened to be at the store buying carb cleaner and noticed about a half dozen different fuel additives/cleaners. I always thought they were "snake-oil", but I guess a lot of people are using them, so maybe? Mr. Lucas seems to have done well for himself around here and there is "Marvel Mystery Oil" and several others. I would like to see some independent study if anyone knows of one.

The additives and 'snake oil' are a source of constant derision on message boards. But, for some, they have proved their worth. Seafoam has a thread on this forum and is similar in composition to Marvel Mystery Oil. What is notable about both is that the products sell enough to continue manufacture, so someone is using them.

I first heard about Seafoam on a Miata forum to de-carbon the intake system. I ended up using BG 44k gas treatment that was originally found at the BMW (car) dealership service department. The BG 44K solved all sorts of idle/hesitation/roughness problems in one tank of gas. I only use it right before changing the oil and it cleans the fuel (injection) system very well. I somewhat expect the EPA to ban its use because it works so well.

I never used much Marvel Mystery oil, but have used Seafoam in the gas tank. Carbureted engines seem to benefit more from Seafoam, but I have not used it much in the bike. It seems to help clean lawnmowers and other small engine carburetors. I think the real appeal is that it sometimes works - without major disassembling or effort spent.

Myself, I am a skeptic about any claim, but if additives are not (relatively) expensive, appear to do little harm, and provide a noticeable benefit then they are worth a try. I do not use any (other than the valve protecting lead substitute) regularly. YMMV.

[QUOTE=jbf;814066]Hey all,

Whats the word on E15? Its going to be sold in the U.S. I hear. Ive read some people use gasoline additives but do they really even work? How do we prevent our vintage airheads from damage?[/QUOTE]

E15 was available at a Shell station in Boston when I stopped for fuel a few weeks ago.

I have seen CD2 within the past 3 months at WalMart

I did see the Seafoam at Meijer and there seemed to be a couple of different mixture types. It appeared to be for boat motors, but listed all types. I know I had a lot of carbon I cleaned from my pistons the last time I had them out. Seems like I have seen where it has been reccommended for soaking parts also. I've always wondered if I should be using lead substitute, but couldn't find any definitive answer. Hate to spend money on this stuff if it dosen't help or even makes things worse!

Unfortunately, it appears we'll have to live with the crap E10 and E15 that the government is forcing on us under the guise of cleaner air and less foreign oil dependence. All a crock, because it does neither in the bigger picture.

If the carbs are rebuilt to handle the alcohol in the fuel, and with the additives, they should run fine.

I still though, if given the option, will go out of my way to not purchase E10 or E15. When I store a bike I make sure to only fill it with non-blended fuel.

E15 was seen as a temporary solution to meeting then EISA blending mandates, which did not take into account a drop in demand for gas due to high costs when setting forth the yearly (increasing) blending requirements. If you want to learn more that you could ever want about this, just google "EISA blending requirements".

As I understand it, the introduction of e15 (which was unsuccessfully fought by the motorcycle and marine trade groups) requires separate signage, like diesel, so just be alert when heading to the pump. It will not replace e10 but go alongside it.

It is too bad e85 has not caught on more, most modern american made cars happily run it (look for the "Flex Fuel" badge) and its widespread use would make it easier to find non-blended fuel. I guess that won't change however until EISA and Sugar reform make it easier to mirror Brazil's very successful model.

[IMG]http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/e15/image/e15-label.jpg[/IMG]

A side note, there was a strong push to modify the EISA/RFS2 mandates due to this year's widespread and devastating drought and accompanying crop loss, but it doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

[QUOTE=rogermansfield;814493]I've always wondered if I should be using lead substitute, but couldn't find any definitive answer. [/QUOTE]
I used to use lead substitute for years. I quit after asking Paul Glaves about it during a seminar in Redmond three years ago. He said it likely wasn't accomplishing much. I haven't noted any difference in my valve adjustments so far (they don't seem to be closing up abnormally fast), but I do think that the amount of carbon buildup in my cylinders has decreased since I stopped using it.

[QUOTE=jforgo;814455]I have seen CD2 within the past 3 months at WalMart[/QUOTE]

Interesting, the CD2 company was bought by Turtle Wax - which also owns Marvel Mystery Oil. The CD2 products are now fuel system cleaner and stop leak. The CD2 lead substitute is no longer listed. [url]http://www.turtlewax.com/Cd-2.aspx[/url]

All things considered, valve seat recession is something that takes 10's or 100's of thousands of miles to notice. I am currently paying an extra 4 cents per gallon for the treatment. The physics makes sense, but I will probably never really know if the product(s) work as intended.

Maybe I just 'want to believe' and members like Polarbear feed my delusion.

Well, I bought my R100/7 brand new and now at 380000+miles with original valves means one thing? BMW built an engine in 1977(mine) with abnormal stamina and/or the CD2 has lengthened its life in the top end. I've been using it over the last 2+ years now, the CD2 product. My valve adjusts are zero for the longest time now(years):). I still look for more, as some have commented here whether its still around and I'm on my last few ounces of the CD2. I THINK BMW did build some year bikes with long lives intended and perhaps the mid 70s was that era? I'm not certain of all that, but I have one remarkable BMW sitting in my garage for almost 35 years now:). I've done almost nothing to the engine. Original timing chain, crank, starter, steering head bearings, wheel bearings, brake rotor, valves HAVE ALL never been replaced and thats a WOW to me. I just don't believe its by mistake and BMW put these out there on purpose. I got one:). Now, the hunt is on to find me some new CD2. BTW; This stuff burns real clean(proper dose) and IF you overdose it, it comes out pink on the plugs. DON"T overdose it! Randy

I agree with recent article concerning failing gas tank liners and the increasing booteek fuel mixtures mandated. The original products had no idea that twenty years later all sorta ethanes, ketones, methel-ethol-shmethenols would be intro'd into fuel. The same for fuel additives IMHO. Dual plug it and it will run on almost anything. Oh, the article was in Classic Motorcycle Mechanics, I think. Also a great editorial on what is about to happen in Europe concerning EU regs and weekend mechanics. If yer interested. Which is another topic, but not really, it's all hooked together when we're trying to ride on down the road.

[QUOTE=Ted;814528]As I understand it, the introduction of e15 (which was unsuccessfully fought by the motorcycle and marine trade groups) requires separate signage, like diesel, so just be alert when heading to the pump. It will not replace e10 but go alongside it.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Ted, the pumps I saw are plastered with warning labels about the E15.

Give me pure gas -- the bike goes further on it!