New Rally Schedule

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;814229]I'm not too impressed with the fact that the lack of vendors prevent us from having a rally in Canada.

Is this a motorcycle travelling club or a shopping get-together?

If we don't have any vendors, too bad, we'll actually have to spend time socialising............The horror!

Regards, Rod.[/QUOTE]

While appreciating your position for many people visiting the vendors are a major draw. It is for me. Especially the small machinist or chair maker; for us the rally may be the only time to look at a product before buying it.

Plus the last (and IIRC only) time we went North they couldn't handle the extra work. I recall one breakfast spot that closed for the rest of the week after the first day.

Rob, I understand that many people go to the rally to see new products, however would it kill us to have one in ten rallies in another country such as Mexico or Canada?

Regards, Rod.

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;814245]Rob, I understand that many people go to the rally to see new products, however would it kill us to have one in ten rallies in another country such as Mexico or Canada?

Regards, Rod.[/QUOTE]

I would hope not but you never know. Right now the trend in attendance is down. Sure you can blame it on the heat, the time of year or the location but year to year attendance is declining. I believe membership is also down.

I think the board would be wise to consider a return to an urban site like Charleston. I believe Charleston had a ton of unrealized potential. It was poor planning that prevented it from being a home run.

My last comment is with all due respect Trenton wasn't much of a site and the town wasn't ready, able or ultimately willing to handle the crowd. The whole thing came off like it was done to "check the Canada box."

Is there anywhere in Canada that's a reasonable distance that has a facility like Bend, Lima or Vermont?

Hi Rob, yes there were issues with Trenton, however I personally had a great time. It's all part of the learning process.

I'm sure there are suitable places, it would be worth investing the time to do the research if the MOA could provide a commitment to have another Canadian rally.

Regards, Rod.

Security measures since 911 have made holding a rally outside the US very difficult, for both memebers and vendors. Unless those issues could be addressed it's not likely we will see an MOA rally outside the continental 48 very soon.

[QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;814245]Rob, I understand that many people go to the rally to see new products, however would it kill us to have one in ten rallies in another country such as Mexico or Canada?

Regards, Rod.[/QUOTE]

I think passport and insurance issues would keep most members that normally go to the rally as well as others from attending a rally in a foreign country. The rules have changed.

[QUOTE=Texpaul;814729]Security measures since 911 have made holding a rally outside the US very difficult, for both memebers and vendors. Unless those issues could be addressed it's not likely we will see an MOA rally outside the continental 48 very soon.[/QUOTE]

What issues specifically as possible. If a group were interested in trying to put a proposal together they will be part of what needs to be addressed in putting a proposal together.

With all due respect your response is isolationist. Before, after and for the foreseeable future Canada is the largest trading partner with the US. In a group such as the MOA I find it difficult to believe viable solutions could not be found.

[QUOTE=Texpaul;814729]Security measures since 911 ...[/QUOTE]

I didn't know about this. Perhaps I should cancel my trip through Central America that's coming up....

[QUOTE=Mika;814808]What issues specifically as possible. [/QUOTE]

Doubt these have anything to do with 9/11, but here is what I saw when the rally was held in Trenton:

[LIST][*]Massive logistical problems with tax forms and inventory reporting for US-based vendors to get into and out of Canada.[*]Nearly impossible for BMW NA to get bikes into and out of Canada (the Mobile Tradition was there that year and it was a huge CF)[*]Nearly impossible fir the MOA to get prize bikes from US into Canada and then back out.[*]Massive logistics to bring in Country Store merchandise and to return to US with unsold merchandise.[*]The requirement for US citizens to have passports to get back into the USA.[*]If you had a drunk driving conviction in the US, you couldn't go to the rally.[*]If you travel with a sidearm, fuggeddabouddit![*]Paperwork requirements involved with rallygoers purchasing items at the rally in Canada.avoid taxes when leaving Canada[/LIST]

This is everything I can think of... obviously most had to do with Canadian government requirements for taxes and import/export, not 9/11 issues.

Sure wish there were a way around this, as I would *love* to go to an MOA National Rally in Canada again.

Ian

NAFTA changed some of this.

Passports, guns, felonies, and DUI convictions still about the same.

Thank you Ian.

Logistics, logistics, logistics. A problem that was bigger than anticipated for that rally but is not totally impossible to deal with.

Passports. This as a concern floors me. It is an incredibly handy thing to have in so many non travel business, banking and other things requiring a second photo id. The cost of acquisition for those on a fixed income can be planned for. First time fee and paying a rip off passport photo your cost is roughly $110.00 for a 10 year pass port. Annualized this is $11.00 per year. The restaurant association put the check average in the US for all types of meals at $10.00 per person for a single meal. At this moment the national gas average for a gallon of regular is $3.80 and $3.50 for a gallon milk. There are ways to offset pass port expense if you really see a value in it.

Full blown pass port to costly try a passport card. $55.00 for the first time applicant.
[url]http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html[/url]
It can not be used for air travel but we are talking about riding to a rally right? :evil

DUI issue is a tough one for those that have one. Any idea what percentage of rally attendees suffer from this? My point here is this a knock out issue or not.

I prefer long rifles and shotguns to hand guns. Can't talk about either on the forum. Never have been clear about rally rules on guns, seem to be more don't ask don't tell personal choice. Frankly I am fine with all of that yet find it curious that guns would hold the decision on a rally location hostage. Is the rally going membership that can legally carry concealed side arms across state lines that large?

I am curious why BMW NA was asked to go to Canada instead of working with BMW CA to represent BMW at the rally? On a second issue raised contacting BMW CA or working with a local dealer to provide exemplar prize bikes would have cut down the related logistics pointed out.

With the exception of the DUI and gun issues the rest present issues that can dealt with. The biggest help in dealing with this is lead time. A Canadian rally would seem to require a site selection further out than the normal rally allowing for planning for back off the house logistic issues and helping membership prepare.

I have troubles remembering a year of my life that did not include a trip to Canada for one reason or another. A Canadian rally would get people like me fired up to attend much more than any US site I can think of. I hope a group can be put together to explore this further.

[QUOTE=PGlaves;814895]NAFTA changed some of this.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm... I thought NAFTA was enacted during Clinton admin and that came before the rally in Trenton.

:dunno ... more research required? It sure would be nice to go to Canada for the rally!

I can certainly understand a small business (which I guess represent the bulk of vendors at a rally) would be discouraged from attending if there were increased logistical burdens that would most likely not result in increased sales. For my wife and I one of the major attractions of a rally is the chance to actually see and touch products for our bike a relative rarity outside of cities.

[QUOTE=Visian;815029]Hmmm... I thought NAFTA was enacted during Clinton admin and that came before the rally in Trenton.

:dunno ... more research required? It sure would be nice to go to Canada for the rally![/QUOTE]

I'm no expert on NAFTA Ian, but like most enactments provisions get phased in over time. Down here we get new issues like Mexican trucks and drivers gaining rights to run in the U.S. instead of transferring cargo to US trucks and drivers. Not directly related to vendors going to Canada, mind you, but an example of a provision phased in much later than the enactment. NAFTA is supposed to mean free/easy trade with few barriers. If motorcycle goody vendors were somehow excluded I'm not sure how that happened.

A perspective from north of the border:

The passport requirement is American, not Canadian. Non-residents may enter Canada at a land border crossing with proof of citizenship, i.e. a birth certificate.

There are municipalities in the US where you may not carry. Canada just happens to be bigger.

Those convicted of "crimes of moral turpitude" (e.g. passing a bad cheque) or with minor pot possession charges are barred from entering the US, so criminality issues aren't one to blame on Canada. Some Canadians can't enter the US either. Canada recently amended the laws preventing entry if convicted of DUI, so that is far less of an issue now. If criminality is a problem, is far simpler and cheaper to apply for a special permit to enter Canada than to get one to enter the US. This issue will keep some Canadians from [I]ever[/I] attending an MOA national.

Where I work there are dozens of small mom and pop businesses that undertake commercial cross-border transactions daily. It's not hard. Every commercial issue outlined here can be solved by a customs broker. It happens tens of thousands of times every day. Many businesses have a provincial attitude to cross-border commerce. As a Canadian, I can't count the times one comes across vendors that won't export from the US, even if you are willing to pay the necessary shipping. All for the sake of the sender taking 60 seconds to stick a customs declaration form on the package.

Canada is a country with 10% of the population of the US, so there will be fewer venues that meet the MOA's requirements. On the other hand, beating the heat that so many have complained about for the past couple of years should be easier than in most of the US.

A shame to write off a piece of geography larger than the US when it is an easy ride to get there.