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PGlaves
02-07-2013, 02:09 PM
Apparently a transmission sealing problem has caused a recall of the new R1200GS in Canada. This effects 31 units there. No recall has been announced in the U.S. but one is expected.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/02/06/manufacturers/bmw/2013-bmw-r1200gs-recalled-in-canada-for-transmission-oil-leak/

beemerdons
02-07-2013, 03:19 PM
Apparently a transmission sealing problem has caused a recall of the new R1200GS in Canada. This effects 31 units there. No recall has been announced in the U.S. but one is expected.

http://blog.motorcycle.com/2013/02/06/manufacturers/bmw/2013-bmw-r1200gs-recalled-in-canada-for-transmission-oil-leak/

Just unbelievable Paul, but then again I am still expecting a "fix" for the defective water pump on my K1600GT. Leaving for Huntsville, Ontario, Canada on June 15; my Son Seth (16) and I are packing a spare water pump in our top case!

PineGreen
02-07-2013, 11:18 PM
First let me say I have been riding Beemers for 30 years and I love them. Every once in awhile I buy another brand, but there is always a Beemer in the barn. I've had air heads, oilheads, Kbikes and now a 2011 R RT. I read about and experience problems with Beemers and I wonder about their beta testing procedures. Plus the fact that AG often, usually always, refuses to recognize recurring failures. Many aitheads had melting diode boards, oilhead surging, final drive failures,jumping cam chains, defective fuel strips, cracking fuel couplings etc etc etc. I'm making no statement here, just wondering what testing procedures AG performs before the bikes hit the market. I have always felt that BMW in some cases lets its buyers do the testing and then lets them hang facing the repair bills. I understand the water cooled thing. The inceasingly stringent emissions criteria and all. I get it. I also hope BMW hasn't inadvertently opened the flood gates for endless coolant preference discussions. Just when I thought the motor oil posts and their ilk had died down!!!!

marchyman
02-07-2013, 11:59 PM
The blog may have it wrong. It may not be the new GS (wethead), but 31 2013 camheads that have the issue. Yes, you can buy 2013 camheads.

The description of the problem (transmission oil pressure too high) makes no sense for wetheads given that the wethead transmission lives in the engine case. Or perhaps it is the description of the issue that is incorrect. :dunno

This is discussed in another thread.

PGlaves
02-08-2013, 02:46 AM
The blog may have it wrong. It may not be the new GS (wethead), but 31 2013 camheads that have the issue. Yes, you can buy 2013 camheads.

The description of the problem (transmission oil pressure too high) makes no sense for wetheads given that the wethead transmission lives in the engine case. Or perhaps it is the description of the issue that is incorrect. :dunno

This is discussed in another thread.

I think it is the Wethead. Oil in the transmission is shared with the engine and that system is pressurized. Camhead transmissions are vented to the atmosphere and shouldn't have pressure at all with the splash lubricated system. I'd have to see serial numbers to know for sure. We will see them when they are recalled in the U.S.

tinytrains
02-08-2013, 05:45 AM
There have to be a lot more 2013 GS Cam Heads in Canada than 31, and as stated, the transmission is not pressurized. There weird thing is recalling a motorcycle that has not been sold yet. I would assume they are evaluation bikes and they are complying with the law.

mika
02-08-2013, 12:40 PM
There have to be a lot more 2013 GS Cam Heads in Canada than 31, and as stated, the transmission is not pressurized. There weird thing is recalling a motorcycle that has not been sold yet. I would assume they are evaluation bikes and they are complying with the law.

There may not be as many as you may think. BMW Motorrad Ca (http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1108317/bmw-group-canada-reports-january-2013-sales-results) sold 40 bikes of all models in January of this year across Canada. Recalls don't happen overnight so at the time the recall was put together there may have only been 31 units in the pipe for consideration and why the article suggests the recall may be expanded.

lkraus
02-08-2013, 03:25 PM
I'm thinking this HAS to apply to the wethead engine. Otherwise, it would apply to many more than 31 bikes, it would include R and RT models, and also include pre-2013 camheads since there have been no engine changes for 2013.

Really makes me doubt BMW's testing procedures when such a problem arises so soon after the engine is in production.

mika
02-08-2013, 09:39 PM
It is the wethead. I wrote BMW Canada for clarification and received this in response.

From: @bmwgroup.ca
To:
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2013 15:28:21 +0100
Subject: FW: Can you please help me answer this?

Good morning John,

I am responsible for technical support and recalls for Canada.

This recall is limited to the new R1200GS that will be launched in March. No previous generation air cooled models are affected. The actual number of affected motorcycles for Canada is 31. These motorcycles will all be addressed at the BMW retailers; therefore, no customer action or notification will be required.

Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Warm regards,

marchyman
02-09-2013, 01:02 AM
Thanks, Mika!

lkraus
02-09-2013, 04:14 AM
So Transport Canada identified a potential oil leak before the bikes were even released to the public? I'd like know how that happened. Maybe NHTSA could take lessons.

RINTY
02-09-2013, 05:50 PM
I'm wondering if Transport Canada picked up on this during the certification process. I understand they're pretty picky.

espressoforyou
06-21-2013, 01:07 PM
I have a early production 2005 r1200gs and have had repeated problems and BMW NA just declared mine defective and not repairable. So I was the beta tester on The newly introduced 2005 GS.

I would suggest waiting at least a year until the bugs are worked out on the wethead. I am sure it will be a good bike, but a complete new engine and transmission has bound to have some bugs to work out.

cjack
07-03-2013, 12:47 PM
I have a early production 2005 r1200gs and have had repeated problems and BMW NA just declared mine defective and not repairable. So I was the beta tester on The newly introduced 2005 GS.

I would suggest waiting at least a year until the bugs are worked out on the wethead. I am sure it will be a good bike, but a complete new engine and transmission has bound to have some bugs to work out.

Good idea. BMW could help by coming out with the second year of production first...bypassing the first year altogether.

espressoforyou
07-03-2013, 06:13 PM
I am not saying anything bad abut BMW. It is just the first year production of any new product has bound to have some bugs in it. I would imagine that car manufactures can do a lot more testing on new vehicles that are being introduced because they can spread the cost of testing among hundreds of thousands vehicles expected to be sold. Bike manufactures do not have the luxury of spreading the cost out among that many bikes, so they are forced to do less pre-introduction testing.

The wethead will be a great bike I am sure. But I would not want to buy the first year production model, based on the past experience of my 2005 r1200gs. My main riding buddy bought a 2005 GS like mine with a six month later production date and has had zero problems with his bike.

ponch1
07-03-2013, 06:58 PM
I am not saying anything bad abut BMW. It is just the first year production of any new product has bound to have some bugs in it. I would imagine that car manufactures can do a lot more testing on new vehicles that are being introduced because they can spread the cost of testing among hundreds of thousands vehicles expected to be sold. Bike manufactures do not have the luxury of spreading the cost out among that many bikes, so they are forced to do less pre-introduction testing.

The wethead will be a great bike I am sure. But I would not want to buy the first year production model, based on the past experience of my 2005 r1200gs. My main riding buddy bought a 2005 GS like mine with a six month later production date and has had zero problems with his bike.

May be the day of the week matters. Mondays can be rough during Octoberfest.

22600
07-04-2013, 04:02 PM
I have no input to this; I've never owned a new bike with a warranty but I do have a question.
First of all let me say I know all or most motorcycle manufactures have recalls and problems with new models.
I know some of you must own newer motorcycles other than BMW's, so you have experience with BMW AG and whatever other motorcycle company whose bike you own.
Do you think that BMW AG or the other company pays more attention to the recurring problems that you may have on your bikes? Or, are they all about the same?
And I'm not talking about the local BMW shops; they have always treated me well and fairly.
The only problem I ever had was diode boards back when, but there seems to be more these days.
DW

billy walker
07-04-2013, 07:43 PM
Let me say this: I don't know if I'm correct or not but I wouldn't be surprised if they have had a recall on every single model they've released in the past few years. I've actually thought for a few years the customer base is the R&D department. That statement cannot be too far from the truth given their history. That is why I say you need to be patient with BMW and most likely they'll get everything worked out sooner or later. For a worldwide company that sells a handful of motorcycles their recall record is nothing short of incredible. Incredibly bad.

billy walker
07-04-2013, 08:13 PM
I have no input to this; I've never owned a new bike with a warranty but I do have a question.
First of all let me say I know all or most motorcycle manufactures have recalls and problems with new models.
I know some of you must own newer motorcycles other than BMW's, so you have experience with BMW AG and whatever other motorcycle company whose bike you own.
Do you think that BMW AG or the other company pays more attention to the recurring problems that you may have on your bikes? Or, are they all about the same?
And I'm not talking about the local BMW shops; they have always treated me well and fairly.
The only problem I ever had was diode boards back when, but there seems to be more these days.
DW

I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to BMW NA/AG so you may want to speak with others and take what I have to say with a grain of salt if you feel it is appropriate.

All companies are familiar with recalls. A year or so ago BMW was fined for the improper handling of recall procedures. The recall was concerning 16 vehicles total, 15 of which were motorcycles. Recalls are always related to potential safety issues. What's sad is the number of BMW models that have been recalled. BMW seems to be in a perpetual state of recall on their motorcycles. I've come to believe the BMW customer base is the R&D department for BMW AG. BMW is a very small player in the world of motorcycles yet their recall situations seem to defy gravity. In addition, recurring problems seem to be a very real issue with them. The accuracy of this statement however is really unknown as no one is really certain how many recurring failures they seem to have. Those numbers are not published. So your mileage may vary here. And, as long as you don't get either killed or maimed with your recall life is good once the repair is completed.

In addition, BMW is well known for continuing to sell product with known exceptionally high failure rates. Think fuel strips here. Maybe they needed to get them out of inventory I don't know. My guess is somehow it improved their P&L statement but I don't know that for fact.

I will say this. Most owners will not be affected by anything major. In addition, once all the irritating issues that arise are cleared up the likelihood of you enjoying your BMW are excellent. You just may need a bit of patience. Do I think other companies pay more attention to recurring problems? Absolutely, but I would not be able to prove that. I do think Japanese engineering is typically superior to the Germans as a general rule. However, Japanese vehicles lack soul and that is where BMW and a few of the Europeans bikes and cars seem to thrive. For those of us that can appreciate our wheels soul seems to be a powerful motivator in how much we like (love?) our wheels. And, there is something to be said for that.

billy walker
07-04-2013, 08:14 PM
May be the day of the week matters. Mondays can be rough during Octoberfest.

Where is the alcohol content on those German beers I wonder?

Pauls1150
07-04-2013, 10:56 PM
Better than the urine manufactured over here! :drink

Back when I bought my '97 R1100RT, somehow I became THE recipient for the recall notifications for their SUVs. I'd take a red marker and write on their form "I do not own this vehicle" and returned it to them; then I upped that to "I do not now and never did own this vehicle"; then I upped that to "I do not own this or ANY BMW SUV." It took almost two years for the notices to stop coming...

billy walker
07-05-2013, 12:20 AM
Maybe we can create a list of their models by year and see if every single one of them have had recalls. That would be good for a laugh!

nelliott
07-05-2013, 03:35 AM
I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to BMW NA/AG so you may want to speak with others and take what I have to say with a grain of salt if you feel it is appropriate.

I do think Japanese engineering is typically superior to the Germans as a general rule. However, Japanese vehicles lack soul and that is where BMW and a few of the Europeans bikes and cars seem to thrive. For those of us that can appreciate our wheels soul seems to be a powerful motivator in how much we like (love?) our wheels. And, there is something to be said for that.

My opinion is different. I think German engineering is superior, but production quality off the assembly line is higher for Japanese manufacturers.

Again, no data to prove or disprove.

PGlaves
07-05-2013, 05:32 AM
We have purchased at least four 1st year bikes. My F650 was the first delivered to a customer in the U.S., a few days before the unveiling at the dealerships. I rode it 600 miles and took it back for the 1st service. Then we put mine on the floor at Engle Motors for folks to look at while the other one they had was for demo rides that unveiling Saturday. It was a fine bike.

Voni's 1994 titled R1100RS was one of the first load sent to the US. It was built in February of 1993 and we bought it in May of 1993 for Mother's Day. It is sitting outside our motel room here in Fallon, NV as I type with 364,000 miles on it and still running strong. It has been a good bike.

My venerable K75 (wrecked in 2005 with 370,000 miles) was a first year bike and was virtually trouble free except for routine maintenance, a couple of driveshafts, and a cooling fan motor.

My R1150R was a first year bike (I know it evolved from the 1100 with not huge changes) but at about 180,000 miles it has been trouble free.

So while generalizations about new models may be valid, individual bikes may differ vastly from those generalizations. Face it. There will always be new models and somebody will buy them or there won't be any second year bikes of thatmodel. That is what a warranty to cover defects in materials or workmanship is all about. And while I have never bought one there are always extended warranty insurance policies too.

They are machines. They will break. If that happens they get fixed. If in warranty by the dealer. If out of warranty by me. Then we ride them, and ride them some more.

cjack
07-05-2013, 12:45 PM
My opinion is different. I think German engineering is superior, but production quality off the assembly line is higher for Japanese manufacturers.

Again, no data to prove or disprove.

Just because you have no data, doesn't mean you're wrong. :)

billy walker
07-05-2013, 02:10 PM
Just because you have no data, doesn't mean you're wrong. :)

If you're a manufacturer and you have recall after recall after recall after recall and then you're fined millions for your recall procedures what does that mean? You should be a recall pro by that point. You don't know how to build an assembly line that can assemble properly? I suppose it is always possible... Maybe the Japanese can provide assembly line assistance. Or, possibly Triumph. Their recall rate is exceptionally low as well.

mika
07-06-2013, 12:38 AM
After the OP's effort to inform riders this thread?s uniformed backfired carbon has been increasing post by post on all parts.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchVehicles

NHTSA's databases provide an in-depth record of Safety Issues for Vehicles, Child Restraints, Tires, and Equipment. Safety Issues include all safety recalls for your product as well as safety complaints other users have filed. You may also find any relevant service bulletins or NHTSA investigation documents.


The database can be searched back to 1949 as I post this. For example VW was the first and manufacturer listed with a complaint, investigation, service bulletin or recall, in 1949. With the exception of 1951 it appears every year since 1949.

Harley-Davidson was the first motorcycle manufacturer I notice in a quick tour of 62 years showing up in 1967 and every year since. Honda shows up in 1969 and beyond with the other Japanese manufacturers showing up on the list year after year shortly after that.

BMW makes it's first appearance in 1971, 1973 and 1975. In 1977 is begins to appear every subsequent year afterwards, much like every other motorcycle manufacturer selling motorcycles in the USA and subject to the NHTSA's system of oversight and reporting.

OH LETS ALL GO TO THE WAILING WALL AND WRING OUR HANDS AND CRY OUT IN ANGUISH

Horsepucky !

Historical data is there to be had, organized and used if you get your ample posteriors off those overstuffed saddles and do something with it.

I firmly believe problems exist and are under reported.

Learn how to fill out the bloody forms and use the system. You are paying for it. When you sue BMW or whomever your attorney will look to this database for information to support your case. Dumb motorcyclists like me look at this stuff and use the drill down to investigate bikes we own or are considering buying. Your report of a problem will help us.

There may be other constructive ways to use and improve the data but this thread and the backfired carbon it is spewing is not one of them.

If you don't have a constructive on topic for heaven's sake

http://m1ka.smugmug.com/photos/i-wCzxmxv/0/S/i-wCzxmxv-S.png

k75s
07-06-2013, 03:08 AM
My opinion is different. I think German engineering is superior, but production quality off the assembly line is higher for Japanese manufacturers.

In general I agree with your statement. I think German engineering is pretty good, but it is the design of the engines, suspensions, and overall package that make BMW's interesting for me. Most of these issues we are hearing about are quality control issues and related to pre-production and in production testing (or non-testing).

German engineering is a little misleading these days, especially since BMW outsources some of it's engine design, like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%20pdf/RQ%202011/Q2/RQ_Q2_2011.pdf

I would not be surprised if the water head was designed by an external company also, maybe Ricardo again. I would also think that Ricardo would be somewhat embarrassed if one of their designs was failing due to quality control issues. A company like Ricardo does not want to be tied to a product that failed to sell to it's potential because of issues out of their control. They rely on a good resume of product success stories to sell their services.

billy walker
07-06-2013, 10:37 AM
In general I agree with your statement. I think German engineering is pretty good, but it is the design of the engines, suspensions, and overall package that make BMW's interesting for me. Most of these issues we are hearing about are quality control issues and related to pre-production and in production testing (or non-testing).

German engineering is a little misleading these days, especially since BMW outsources some of it's engine design, like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%20pdf/RQ%202011/Q2/RQ_Q2_2011.pdf

I would not be surprised if the water head was designed by an external company also, maybe Ricardo again. I would also think that Ricardo would be somewhat embarrassed if one of their designs was failing due to quality control issues. A company like Ricardo does not want to be tied to a product that failed to sell to it's potential because of issues out of their control. They rely on a good resume of product success stories to sell their services.

Very interesting. I have never heard of this company and it is a pleasure to learn something so significant. Maybe they offer subscriptions? Gotta' check them out!

Thank you for writing!

billy walker
07-06-2013, 12:32 PM
In general I agree with your statement. I think German engineering is pretty good, but it is the design of the engines, suspensions, and overall package that make BMW's interesting for me. Most of these issues we are hearing about are quality control issues and related to pre-production and in production testing (or non-testing).

German engineering is a little misleading these days, especially since BMW outsources some of it's engine design, like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%20pdf/RQ%202011/Q2/RQ_Q2_2011.pdf

I would not be surprised if the water head was designed by an external company also, maybe Ricardo again. I would also think that Ricardo would be somewhat embarrassed if one of their designs was failing due to quality control issues. A company like Ricardo does not want to be tied to a product that failed to sell to it's potential because of issues out of their control. They rely on a good resume of product success stories to sell their services.

Very fascinating company. For those that might be interested check out this web page:

http://www.ricardo.com/en-GB/Our-Markets/Motorcycles-and-Personal-Transportation/Capabilities-and-Case-Studies/

cjack
07-06-2013, 12:49 PM
Interesting...the newsletter also said that BMW had them update the four cyl engine in 2006 also. Wonder why they didn't redesign the cam chain? Or at least put in the cam chain anti-jump a tooth guard by the time the 1300 came out...maybe they were the ones that did advise it?

rad
07-06-2013, 01:45 PM
like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%20pdf/RQ%202011/Q2/RQ_Q2_2011.pdf



Wow, that was a fun read......Thanks for the link.