PDA

View Full Version : Huh.... What was Honda thinking?



oldhway
09-11-2009, 09:36 PM
The new Honda NT700V:
http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v.aspx

I guess they beat BMW to building the F800RT.

Looks kike a pretty nice bike.

R80RTJohnny
09-11-2009, 09:41 PM
I hope that BMW is kicking itself for missing the boat on this one. An F800RT with belt drive and good size bags and fairing would have been too good.

I wish Honda well with it's new bike.

Good for them.

pffog
09-11-2009, 09:49 PM
I like the "innovation" page. They highlighted integrated saddle bage, fuel injection, shaft drive and ABS as Honda innovations:scratch

ALIENHITCHHIKER
09-11-2009, 09:56 PM
I believe this particular model has been marketed in Europe for a number of years, under the name "Deauville'.

I've also heard it refered to in the British bike mags as the 'Dullville'.

Based on reviews I've read it sounds like a very nice commuter/mid-weight tourer. You can't beat Honda for reliability. (BMW - are you paying attention?)

tessler
09-11-2009, 10:43 PM
Now that's a nice looking bike. :thumb

akbeemer
09-11-2009, 11:11 PM
My wife is is looking for a new bike and we have oft thought that BMW needs a mid-sized RT. We may have to take a real hard look at this... it looks near perfect for what she needs. It seems that BMW thinks we Americans are all 6'2". Even their smaller displacement bikes are tall.

pturner820
09-11-2009, 11:13 PM
Yeah: "newly arrived here in the U.S"

Ironic.
A few years ago when I was in the market for a new bike, I saw this in the Euro press and really liked the looks, smaller size, and features.
I even asked my local Honda dealer if it would be available in the US or if they could import one for me. No go.

Now they bring it over here...sheesh.

Oh well, I ended up buying a K1200S instead.

88bmwjeff
09-11-2009, 11:56 PM
Over the last +/- 15 years, manufacturers have increased the motor size on their top of the line bikes leaving very few mid ranged bikes. When I got back into riding I wanted a mid-sized bike but had a hard time finding one. Looks like a cool bike, and I wouldn't be surprised if BMW adds an RT option to the F800.

sugarhillctd
09-12-2009, 10:10 AM
The new Honda NT700V:
http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v.aspx

I guess they beat BMW to building the F800RT.

Looks like a pretty nice bike.

I would have to test ride (do many H dealers allow that?)

I wonder about a 700 v-twin (5-speed? what were they thinking?) pushing around a claimed 560# plus rider and gear. 1-up might be OK but add a passenger and I can imagine some gearbox rowing.

I don't believe we need 200hp for 2-up touring but this might be a bit too far in the other direction.

IMHO

stkmkt1
09-12-2009, 11:27 AM
When is Honda going to understand that 5 speed gear boxes are a thing of the past? To me, this just shows how desperate they are to bring something to the Market (US). Since the motorcycle division has been up for sale for over 3 years, and no one has shown any interest, Honda has not come up with anything exciting. Everthing is just copycat crap, boring, or too late to the game kind of stuff. You might make a case for their new automatic transmission. But that will only interest a very very small set of people in the crowd.

hojoinsc
09-12-2009, 12:23 PM
I like it!

RSPENNACHIO
09-12-2009, 12:53 PM
From the web it looks interesting. I render my final verdict after I see it on the dealers floor.

I still like my RT better though....

YELLOW_S
09-12-2009, 12:59 PM
I'm sure BMW knew about it... Maybe they said they would "delay" what ever they had. Companies do do this.

JAMESDUNN
09-12-2009, 01:13 PM
I think it is a nice package and fills a need the BMW 800 ST does not address. As mentioned here elsewhere the Honda is more of an RT type motorcycle.

stkmkt1
09-12-2009, 01:57 PM
When is Honda going to understand that 5 speed gear boxes are a thing of the past? To me, this just shows how desperate they are to bring something to the Market (US). Since the motorcycle division has been up for sale for over 3 years, and no one has shown any interest, Honda has not come up with anything exciting. Everthing is just copycat crap, boring, or too late to the game kind of stuff. You might make a case for their new automatic transmission. But that will only interest a very very small set of people in the crowd.

Not to be so neagative though, it is a really nice looking bike. I hope Honda sells a lot of them. It might help them realize a whole segment of bikes they have overlooked. And more bikes to choose from is usually a good thing for us all.

jhgilbert
09-12-2009, 02:16 PM
If it had been on the floor before I bought my R1150RT, it would have gotten looked at. But it's still pricier than what I paid for the Beemer, nearly twice, with the ABS. And the only color you can get the ABS is is silver.

I'll keep the RT, thank you very much.

TANDEMGEEK
09-12-2009, 02:42 PM
The only Honda in recent times that I just don't 'get' is the Crossover..
http://powersports.honda.com/street/crossover.aspx

The new NT looks to be another great, but "yawn" over developed and over refined machine that lacks soul. Like the GL and ST, the NT looks like they've nailed the form, fit and function but done it a way that leaves me looking at the bike and and saying, Interesting.... but it doesn't excite me. I suspect the ride and sound will be the same, which is also true of the ST's I've ridden. Great bike, but I couldn't get any type of emotional attachment to it and it didn't stir my soul: I think the Jetson exhaust note was the coup de grace that removed it from my short list.

Even my beloved CBR1100XX had some aesthetic lameness, mostly in the headlight and tail cone department, with everything else in between being spot on... A GT with overly aggressive riding position in line with it its super-low CG design, once you put on the riser bars and a decent saddle it showed its true colors and the refined ride qualities made it a favorite ride for all but the track where its heft and wheelbase made it clear it was not a "CBR" in the true sense of what a CBR had become. In fact, it reminded me of the old CBXXXFs I owned in the 70's, more so than the 'Rs' of the 90's and present.

They'll sell a bunch... which is true of most Honda products. I wonder how those Crossovers are doing?????

sheridesabeemer
09-12-2009, 03:02 PM
that is a sweet looking ride. Getting back to smaller and simpler is the inevitable trend. :thumb

Bob_M
09-12-2009, 03:12 PM
It is a nice looking bike. Didn't they sell this as an ugly bike 15 years ago as the Pacific Coast 800?

osbornk
09-12-2009, 03:31 PM
My wife is is looking for a new bike and we have oft thought that BMW needs a mid-sized RT. We may have to take a real hard look at this... it looks near perfect for what she needs. It seems that BMW thinks we Americans are all 6'2". Even their smaller displacement bikes are tall.

But the seat height is 31.6" which makes it for tall riders. The ST1300 has a seat height of 31.1". If they would make it with a low seat height, I think they will have a winner but most people who want a bike of this size are short of inseam (like me). I keep my R80RT (partly) because I like as medium size tourer.

Ken

JAMESDUNN
09-12-2009, 03:47 PM
It is a nice looking bike. Didn't they sell this as an ugly bike 15 years ago as the Pacific Coast 800?
Yeah. Great tourer if you could get past the looks.

shire2000
09-12-2009, 04:12 PM
I think that the new Honda is a great looking bike that will serve a part of the market that has recently been ignored. 1 or even 2 up touring does not need to be on a huge 1300cc bike. 700cc is plenty. Have done my share of touring on 500-750cc bikes over the years. Never had a bit of problem with the amount of power.

I think that there is a market segment that wants this and Honda is willing to provide it. I hope it does very well. Maybe a few other manufacturers will come to the same party.

j-budimlya
09-12-2009, 04:49 PM
If you are going to make a mid-size....then make a mid-size...not a tall and heavy mid-size. they are leaving plenty of room for someone else to do this better.

Hint....

jhgilbert
09-12-2009, 05:24 PM
As commuter, it's lacking in bag space. Quite a few of us take laptops to work, and my laptop (12" PowerBook in a ST backpack) pack fits tight in the RTs side and top cases. I don't think it would fit at all in the Honda. But it is a pretty bike...like a smaller RT. It probably gets about 55 mpg to boot.

bikerfish1100
09-12-2009, 05:43 PM
weighs in at well over 100 lbs beyond my F8GS, and 30+ lbs. over my "aging" R11S. not nearly the middleweight it should be. but i guess when you compare it to the porky 700+ lbs ST1300, it's a relative lightweight.
yawn.

bubbagazoo
09-12-2009, 06:14 PM
My wife is is looking for a new bike and we have oft thought that BMW needs a mid-sized RT. We may have to take a real hard look at this... it looks near perfect for what she needs. It seems that BMW thinks we Americans are all 6'2". Even their smaller displacement bikes are tall.

Most manufacturers think the folks who ride sport-touring bikes are 6'2" tall. The seat height on this bike is 31.7". The ST1300, Yamaha FJ1300, Kawasaki Concours, R1200RT, etc are all in this range.

Now, I think this is a nice looking bike but it is a bit pricey. And the clamouring for a mid-size RT can be countered with the "what's wrong with the F800ST" other than its price. Buy the bike, add the panniers and you've got a mid-size sport touring bike.

JAMESDUNN
09-12-2009, 07:40 PM
that is a sweet looking ride. Getting back to smaller and simpler is the inevitable trend. :thumb

I think there is truth in this statement, but it still seems to be going the other direction at the moment. Just check out BMW or nearly any other manufacturers latest.

boxermaf
09-12-2009, 09:48 PM
I like the looks of it too - and it definitely looks more like a motorcycle than the old Pacific Coast 800. As other shave said - that was about as reliable a touring bike as one could find 'cept for the styling that made it look like a cross between a scooter and a sedan. Too bad that BMW didn't do this with the F800 platform already - now they shall have to play catchup, again.

I am curious as to why Honda went with this displacement engine - granted, they might still get 65-70HP out of it but I'd think with an extra 100-200cc displacement it could run more relaxed and be tuned for more midrange torque, what touring riders use more than peak HP.

Still, it shows promise, IMHO.

184480
09-12-2009, 09:57 PM
Hmmm? A mid-range touring bike with built in luggage and shaft drive. Probably reliable as hell and no final drive issues to worry about, and Honda dealers everywhere. Also 700cc insurance would be cheap too. Now why would anyone want to buy this?:dunno

bob1100rtc
09-12-2009, 10:28 PM
I like it.

jhgilbert
09-13-2009, 02:02 PM
Hmmm? A mid-range touring bike with built in luggage and shaft drive. Probably reliable as hell and no final drive issues to worry about, and Honda dealers everywhere. Also 700cc insurance would be cheap too. Now why would anyone want to buy this?:dunno

It might be because of this post I stumbled on from ADV:

I had pleasure. Worked on brand new Deauville of my friend and rode with him for 6000 km.

How difficult? VERY!
It is one of most maintenance un-friendly bikes I worked on. I hated every minute.
To take rear wheel off you need to remove exhaust, which requires 1 foot long extender for wrench, but if you drop exhaust you will break lambda-sensor wire, which can not be unplugged from connector on frame because part of connector that are fixed on frame is the one that comes off exhaust!!! Then take off brake caliper, rear mudguard can stay if you lift bike rear like 2 feet in the air. When my friend dropped it left side front indicator broke mounts and sunk into fairing. We wanted to fix it, but plastic fixed in a way that half of bike must be taken off...
Then he broke Honda original bellypan in first fall at 30 kmph. Went into pieces from slight knock.
Comparing to ST1300 I worked on at same time (prepared bikes of my friends for Norway ride I led them in) it was horrible. Yes, and ST1300 not most maintenance-friendly.

JAMESDUNN
09-13-2009, 04:35 PM
It might be because of this post I stumbled on from ADV:

I had pleasure. Worked on brand new Deauville of my friend and rode with him for 6000 km.

How difficult? VERY!
It is one of most maintenance un-friendly bikes I worked on. I hated every minute.
To take rear wheel off you need to remove exhaust, which requires 1 foot long extender for wrench, but if you drop exhaust you will break lambda-sensor wire, which can not be unplugged from connector on frame because part of connector that are fixed on frame is the one that comes off exhaust!!! Then take off brake caliper, rear mudguard can stay if you lift bike rear like 2 feet in the air. When my friend dropped it left side front indicator broke mounts and sunk into fairing. We wanted to fix it, but plastic fixed in a way that half of bike must be taken off...
Then he broke Honda original bellypan in first fall at 30 kmph. Went into pieces from slight knock.
Comparing to ST1300 I worked on at same time (prepared bikes of my friends for Norway ride I led them in) it was horrible. Yes, and ST1300 not most maintenance-friendly.

But so are a lot of the newer plastic clad bikes, regardless of brand. It is my understanding the new 800ST must have body work removed to change the spark plugs!

osbornk
09-14-2009, 07:52 PM
I am curious as to why Honda went with this displacement engine - granted, they might still get 65-70HP out of it but I'd think with an extra 100-200cc displacement it could run more relaxed and be tuned for more midrange torque, what touring riders use more than peak HP.


An extra 100-200cc here and an extra 100-200cc there is how we gradually got to the hugh engines we have now. I did the same thing. Bigger is better thinking. I started out with a 185 cc bike and went to 350 to 500 to 550 to 700 to 1,100 before I started back down to 1,000 to 750cc to 800 cc and thjen back to 1200 cc (but low HP and plenty of torque). The quickest and most powerful bike I had was the 700 cc bike (Honda Magna). The 750 and 800 cc BMWs were (and are) the nicest bikes for touring (one up) that I have ridden.

I think the new Honda has the right size engine but it is heavier than needed and the seat height is far to high on a bike that is probably aimed at the newer and/or female rider.

108625
09-14-2009, 09:46 PM
When discussing seat height, keep in mind the bike is a V-twin, and probably a lot narrower than most other configurations. My wife is 5'2", and we've found that seat height as a measurement only tells half the story when it comes to how tall or short a bike feels. Being able to put a leg almost straight down goes a long way towards making the bike feel more manageable.

Beyond that, this particular model has been a long running good seller in europe, where I think a lot of people ride and commute on bikes as primary transportation more than we do. (I've lived there twice; for a total of six years.) Maybe the euro moto-journalists find it unexciting compared to a Fireblade (CBR1000RR), but that's not what it's for... It sure looks to me like that K75RT replacement a lot of people here are looking for.

Maybe instead of critiquing Honda's effort; we should be questioning why BMW doesn't make one at all.

xp8103
09-15-2009, 03:34 PM
The only Honda in recent times that I just don't 'get' is the Crossover..
http://powersports.honda.com/street/crossover.aspx



I sat on one of those this past summer.... Oddity for sure. A "Crusing Sports Tourer"? Or a "Touring Sports Cruiser" or a ...... And since I didn't get to ride it, I'll reserve judgment on the trans.

I like the looks of the NT. But before we complain about heavy tall mid-sized tourers, I'll offer up my K75 as a specimen. Only the "low seat" and a LOT of seat time makes it manageable. I agree with those who say that you don't need 1000cc to tour 1 up, but 2 with enough gear to tour? On a heavy bike?

knary
09-15-2009, 04:44 PM
But so are a lot of the newer plastic clad bikes, regardless of brand. It is my understanding the new 800ST must have body work removed to change the spark plugs!

Bodywork has to be removed from most any bike that isn't a boxer to access the sparkplugs. :dunno

149769
09-15-2009, 05:26 PM
Interesting to see this thread. Before I bought my R1200R I was having the great debate between the Honda CBF1000 (available in Canada and not the US) and the R1200R. Both bikes had what I was looking for. Lower seat height, removable bags. They could be used for the twisties as a fun bike and touring as well..

I test rode both. The BMW was more expensive so the frugal part of me was leaning towards the Honda.

There were several things that made me change my mind and buy the BMW.

First - I really liked the look of the R1200R. I am not a fan of fairings so the naked look appealed to me.

Second - Build details Better brake lines, instrumentation, fit and finish in the BMW. 3 year warranty vs 1 year warranty. Given almost 1/2 of the year is unrideable in Canada the longer warranty was perferable.

Third - The dealer....I had a great experience with the BMW dealer. They even brought in the low seat for my test ride. The Honda dealer seemed very reluctant to let me ride the bike at all. I had spoken to men who went there for test rides and were not treated like that...

Fourth - The engine....I really like the boxer. It gives me all of the power that I need for the street. The inline 4 is a nice smooth engine but when ever I ride one of those big inline 4's it seems that they are not happy to ride within the posted speed limit...

When it came right down to it the BMW just made me smile more...after 6000 km on it so far I have no regrets...


Celeste

osbornk
09-15-2009, 05:42 PM
I like the looks of the NT. But before we complain about heavy tall mid-sized tourers, I'll offer up my K75 as a specimen. Only the "low seat" and a LOT of seat time makes it manageable. I agree with those who say that you don't need 1000cc to tour 1 up, but 2 with enough gear to tour? On a heavy bike?

I sold my K75RT purely because it was a top heavy and tall bike. I liked everything else about it but after 3 or 4 years, I realized my short legs would never allow me to be comfortable with it. It was not a low seat model and the Russell seat I installed made the problem worse because it was wider. The original seat made a rock seem soft.

Ken

85138
09-16-2009, 12:25 AM
Hmmm ... nice looking specimen. Competition for the F800ST I'd think. (I'll stay w/ the F800ST). Slightly on the heavy side for an 800 but not overly so. (I'd want to see independent weights)

Greg_K
10-01-2009, 02:05 AM
Looks nice, probably reliable. Fits a much needed middle-weight touring catagory.

Too tall and heavy for what it is. Weighs almost as much dry as my RT and makes a good bit less HP and torque. Wouldn't want to try it 2-up with lotsa luggage.

A 600CC inline 4 tuned for torque with a lower seat would be perfect as a lightweight touring bike for a single rider and occasional 2-up shorter rides.

mfifer
10-01-2009, 04:29 AM
I am one of the small BMW riders and I would welcome the smaller bike. I too wish BMW would have done a smaller RT version.
I could never figure out why Honda did not go with the VFR engine in a sport tour bike ?????
I hated my ST1300!!! :banghead
Love my RT!! :brad
Mike

PAULBACH
10-01-2009, 11:31 AM
NT?


Next Time?
Nice Try?

Looks like a great touring machine. Space seems sufficient to carry a shaving kit, a credit card and wash and wear clothing. Wear one set of clothes and wash the other.

And if there are enough sales maybe BMW can figure out how to bring an RT to the F800 world.

Bud
10-01-2009, 12:32 PM
Interesting to see this thread. Before I bought my R1200R I was having the great debate between the Honda CBF1000 (available in Canada and not the US) and the R1200R. Both bikes had what I was looking for. Lower seat height, removable bags. They could be used for the twisties as a fun bike and touring as well..

I test rode both. The BMW was more expensive so the frugal part of me was leaning towards the Honda.

There were several things that made me change my mind and buy the BMW.

First - I really liked the look of the R1200R. I am not a fan of fairings so the naked look appealed to me.

Second - Build details Better brake lines, instrumentation, fit and finish in the BMW. 3 year warranty vs 1 year warranty. Given almost 1/2 of the year is unrideable in Canada the longer warranty was perferable.

Third - The dealer....I had a great experience with the BMW dealer. They even brought in the low seat for my test ride. The Honda dealer seemed very reluctant to let me ride the bike at all. I had spoken to men who went there for test rides and were not treated like that...

Fourth - The engine....I really like the boxer. It gives me all of the power that I need for the street. The inline 4 is a nice smooth engine but when ever I ride one of those big inline 4's it seems that they are not happy to ride within the posted speed limit...

When it came right down to it the BMW just made me smile more...after 6000 km on it so far I have no regrets...


Celeste

That sums it up, really. Ride what makes you happy.

Bet Honda sells a bunch of these in the states.

The_Veg
10-03-2009, 01:04 PM
My wife is is looking for a new bike and we have oft thought that BMW needs a mid-sized RT. We may have to take a real hard look at this... it looks near perfect for what she needs. It seems that BMW thinks we Americans are all 6'2". Even their smaller displacement bikes are tall.

I disagree. At 6'4", I find the F800 S & ST to be rather cramped, and while the R1200RT is a nice overall size, I found it a bit short on legroom (same problem with my former R100R). Now I should point out that I'm a tad short-legged for a person of my height, as I only have a 34" inseam- but I still had to lower the pegs on my R1200GS to be really comfortable.

But back to the Honda; I like it.

The_Veg
10-03-2009, 01:08 PM
I wonder about a 700 v-twin (5-speed? what were they thinking?) pushing around a claimed 560# plus rider and gear. 1-up might be OK but add a passenger and I can imagine some gearbox rowing.

I don't believe we need 200hp for 2-up touring but this might be a bit too far in the other direction.

Since the target market is less-experienced riders and commuters, it might not be so bad. Not everybody needs sturmbahnfuhrer performance.

The_Veg
10-03-2009, 01:12 PM
It is a nice looking bike. Didn't they sell this as an ugly bike 15 years ago as the Pacific Coast 800?

I've seem more PC800's in the last two years than I did when they were current. I think that the US market has finally learned to appreciate them, and all the owners with whom I've spoken LOVE their PC800.

bikerfish1100
10-03-2009, 02:11 PM
Since the target market is less-experienced riders and commuters, it might not be so bad. Not everybody needs sturmbahnfuhrer performance.

given those demos, a significant weight reduction would be a great idea. it's not just too many ponies or pound(ing) feet, it's about learning to manage and manuever the bike. noobs usually struggle with that at first, but maybe 1 too many times before the learning/comfort curve is negotiated successfully.

charliebrown
10-03-2009, 02:20 PM
The more I look at it, the more I like it. Had it been available before I purchased my '07
GT then '09 RT, it would have been on my short list. The F800ST just didn't have the
ergonomics for me. I'm looking forward to seeing it in person in the upcoming international
motorcycle shows.

kbasa
10-03-2009, 02:23 PM
The new Honda NT700V:
http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v.aspx

I guess they beat BMW to building the F800RT.

Looks kike a pretty nice bike.

It looks like a pretty boring bike to me.

JAMESDUNN
10-03-2009, 02:51 PM
I find it interesting how long this thread has become, considering it is (mostly) a discussion about a Honda motorcycle!

mfifer
10-03-2009, 03:18 PM
I find it interesting how long this thread has become, considering it is (mostly) a discussion about a Honda motorcycle!
As much as BMW does not make such a bike!

Mike

secondroy
10-14-2009, 03:18 PM
Looks good and would make someone a great touring, commuting bike. But the seat height is higher than the ST and the RT. They knocked out a large portion of their market when they did that.

aaaaaa
10-14-2009, 10:54 PM
When is Honda going to understand that 5 speed gear boxes are a thing of the past? To me, this just shows how desperate they are to bring something to the Market (US). Since the motorcycle division has been up for sale for over 3 years, and no one has shown any interest, Honda has not come up with anything exciting. Everthing is just copycat crap, boring, or too late to the game kind of stuff. You might make a case for their new automatic transmission. But that will only interest a very very small set of people in the crowd.

My ST1300 has a 5 speed. It works really great. A lot of riders and police departments are switching to ST1300's. My airheads have 5 speeds. They work just fine. Desperate, no. The proper gear ratios and engine tuning does not put a machine in the past. I guess crappy and boring is in the eye of the beholder. Late to the game? I'm delighted they spent the resources to get EPA approval and make the bike available here.

aaaaaa airheads, R1100RT, ST1300, Electra Glide

JAMESDUNN
10-27-2009, 05:31 PM
As much as BMW does not make such a bike!

Mike

Rider mag. now confirms the Honda will be released as a 2010 model.

akbeemer
10-27-2009, 07:01 PM
Our local dealer says they should have one in November.

We thought about it seriously for Annie but it looks like we are going to get a R1200R for her. The local dealer has a new, well equipped 07 on the floor that he will sell for $13,800.

tgolder151754
10-28-2009, 01:38 AM
I had an ST1300 for awhile, great motor but oh so hot on warm days. This bike looks like a shrunk down model, great idea in my opinion and looks like an awesome little commuter bike. Sure is nice to see Honda offering ABS. I wonder what the final price will come out to on showroom???

dadodirt
10-29-2009, 09:14 PM
Road Runner mag had an article on it a month or so back.

I like the idea of a mid size touring bike, but that thing is Fugly.

But then again, I ride a GS:bolt

bob1100rtc
10-29-2009, 11:23 PM
I like it. I showed it to my wife and suggested it might be her next bike. Of course I could ride it now and then. I like my bmw but the closest dealer is an hour away and the next closest is 190 miles. The dealer has more or less a captive clientel. I would like more dealers in my area for my next bike. They may actually try to go out of their way to please me as opposed to 'this is how it is take it or leave it'. Maybe not but when it's time for a new bike I'm going to see.

JohnM
11-01-2009, 01:58 PM
I'm starting to look for a replacement of my K75RT, and the ABS-equipped model is one bike that I'll take into consideration.

However, Honda better offer the heated grips & larger case cover options here in the US. (Not showing on the NT700V's website yet.)

jkbales
03-08-2010, 02:04 AM
I was looking at the Honda promos and this is a nice looking bike.

Size, height and weight are nearly identical to my R1200RT. Horsepower and torque of the 680cc motor are about what you'd expect, slightly more than half the BMW's, which makes me wonder how much two-up touring you'll be doing on it. Then there's the bit about how nimble it is for daily commuting. I wonder, especially compared to a real middleweight.

The $11,000 list price may be attractive to some. So will the large dealer network. Yet I feel that it's filling a niche that doesn't exist. It'd be a much nicer bike if they cut 125 pounds off it and trimmed the price a bit (I saw one discounted to $8800 new). Honda already has the VFR800 competing with the F800ST. Do they need the NT700V at all? Did Honda size the motor to slip under the 700cc mark due to legal restrictions?

"Luxury Tourer or Upscale Commuter? Why Not Both?" Honda asks. I have it already, thank you very much. Is it the "ultimate light-weight tourer/commuter for both entry-level and seasoned riders"? I don't think so.

aaaaaa
03-08-2010, 03:06 AM
When is Honda going to understand that 5 speed gear boxes are a thing of the past? To me, this just shows how desperate they are to bring something to the Market (US). Since the motorcycle division has been up for sale for over 3 years, and no one has shown any interest, Honda has not come up with anything exciting. Everthing is just copycat crap, boring, or too late to the game kind of stuff. You might make a case for their new automatic transmission. But that will only interest a very very small set of people in the crowd.

I've been rideing ST1300's since 2005. I'm on the second one. The 5 speed is fine. I like the gearing much better than my '04 R1150GS. They're doing us a favor with this bike.
They paid to have it EPA certified. It's been proven in worldwide for years. They're taking a chance on a middleweight tourer in Harley Davidson land.
aaaaaa airhead, oilhead, ST1300, electra glide

punkasskid
03-08-2010, 03:17 AM
Ugly as sin. And a Honda to boot.



:ha

haughty
03-08-2010, 04:11 AM
send it to us, make it look new.. the process goes on...
Good looking bike..
I like mine better...
LT Rt and the weird and neat GS

robsryder
03-08-2010, 01:09 PM
I went to the local Honda (who is also a BMW) dealer and looked at the NT700V when it arrived. I sat on it (too much snow on the ground to think about riding it).

Overall, I liked the bike. I thought that the $10k price tag was a bit high, but it has been a while since I last purchased a new bike; so, my pricing calibration may be off. I wasn't crazy about the linked brakes, but Honda's concept seems better than the disaster that BMW came up with for the R1150RT (my opinion).

The Honda did get me thinking.... about a K75S. So I've purchased one (K75S). Smooth, reliable, good looking (to me), adequate power for 2 up (it's a matter of perspective and what you are looking for). And the K75S was about one third the price of the new Honda. I'm gonna get a lot of gas and riding time for that $6-7k difference.

I don't really understand the concept of a bike being "boring". To me, the bike (any bike) can take you on an adventure. It is the ride and the adventure - the bike is just the vehicle to get you there.

ted
03-08-2010, 02:52 PM
Innovation :)

http://www.verrill.com/misc/honda-innovations.jpg

And, Sixteen years, more than a decade and a half, earlier...

http://www.verrill.com/misc/bmw-innovations.jpg

For what it is worth, a rather well-known longtime (and VERY long distance) BMW Rider has one and seems to like it quite a bit.

ultracyclist
03-08-2010, 04:28 PM
In true Honda fashion I am sure the bike will be dependable, reliable, economical, and functional.

Is it good looking? You decide for yourself.

Is it exciting? Depends on how you ride.

The Deauville has been in production for quite some time. So I am sure they have the bugs worked out.

I am curious about two things: 1.)How has the Deauville final drive evolved over the years?
2.) Why did Honda make the bike as heavy as it is?

knary
03-08-2010, 04:33 PM
If BMW put real hard bags on an F800...

88bmwjeff
03-08-2010, 07:13 PM
Honda already has the VFR800 competing with the F800ST. Do they need the NT700V at all? Did Honda size the motor to slip under the 700cc mark due to legal restrictions?

I read an article indicating that this bike was brought to the US (it's been in Europe since 1998) since the VFR was increased to 1200 cc (I think).

Visian
03-08-2010, 11:17 PM
I read an article indicating that this bike was brought to the US (it's been in Europe since 1998) since the VFR was increased to 1200 cc (I think).

in europe it's called the Deauville. (some say dullville.... )

i saw three in daytona. nice tidy bike, definitely patterned on the K75.

bmw should not have let this happen. :nono

ian

dbrick
03-09-2010, 12:23 AM
I sat on it at the bike show in November. Comfortable, nice ergonomics, fairly light feeling. I liked it.

But the RS is paid for, ya know?

And it's amusing to read the magazines: Rider says it's competent and well-mannered and fine for touring. MCN says it's the motorcycle equivalent of a glass of warm milk before bed. :laugh

JAMESDUNN
03-09-2010, 12:44 AM
Innovation :)

[For what it is worth, a rather well-known longtime (and VERY long distance) BMW Rider has one and seems to like it quite a bit.

Good post Ted! BMW owned the midweight touring bike category with the K75RT, a bike that was "best of" on many motorcycle magazines lists, and more than once. BMW blew it!
JD

LONERANGER
03-09-2010, 12:51 AM
For the out of date technology it is overpriced. It does not even have cartridge front forks and a helmet will not fit in the side cases. You have to buy the larger side case lids from Honda if you want to store a helmet. These bikes have been in Europe for a long time and they even have radios in Europe. I wonder why Honda feels that U.S. buyers would not like a radio. Anyway for $11,000 there a lot of more up to date bikes out there.

rad
03-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Because IÔÇÖm a Honda guy who loves BMWÔÇÖs, I thought I was going to really like this ÔÇ£newÔÇØ bike. It gets very good reviews across the pond; they seem better at evaluating what a bike is supposed to be as opposed to what it is not.

That being said, when I saw it and sat on it, it did nothing for me. IÔÇÖm still one of those riders, after decades of owning bikes, that has to have the bike ÔÇ£talk to meÔÇØ, utilitarian does not work for me.

I donÔÇÖt do spec sheet test rides too much, but I will say, this bike is as heavy as my RT with 2/3ÔÇÖs the power.

One thing about the bike that is attractive; it has already proven for about ten years that it is bullet proof, like every Honda I have ever owned.

If you want a bike to get you around and never so much as hiccup, this one is worth a look. Me, I want a bit more out of a bike. IÔÇÖve owned a minivan already in my life, I donÔÇÖt want another.

ultracyclist
03-09-2010, 02:40 PM
The more I look at the Honda 700NT, I see two thirds of a Kawa Concours that has not quite hit the target.
:scratch

On the other hand, maybe Honda knows something about the World Motorcycle markets that other do not.

osbornk
03-09-2010, 03:04 PM
I think this size bike will appeal to those of us who are shorter or smaller than average. This bike has two problems that will keep us away. It has a rather high seat and it is heavy for its size. I sold my K75RT partly for those reasons. The other reason I sold the K75RT is also shared with this bike. It will be appliance dependable but also appliance exciting. It will be as exciting as a Honda Accord. I was going to say Toyota Camry but recent problems have made every Toyota ride an adventure.

Ken

88bmwjeff
03-09-2010, 05:09 PM
This is a tough crowd. I've heard quite often from many riders (some of them here) that new riders should not be riding bikes with large displacements. Some here have even suggested that we (here in the US) require new riders to work up to larger displacement bikes like they do in other parts of the world. Now along comes a bike that's between the really small beginner bikes and the large displacement bikes, and many people are complaining it's under powered. What gives?

For those riders who have many years and miles of experience, this bike is probably not for you. BUT, for those with only a few years experience, this bike would a good fit. This also is probably a better fit for those who are returning to riding--something to get them back into the swing of things before they buy that 150hp bike.

mika
03-09-2010, 06:30 PM
ItÔÇÖs an interesting bike but definitely not a bike I would buy. Then IÔÇÖm not in the market for this kind of bike in the first place. IÔÇÖve read European reviews of the bike over its life there and last night came across the first US review I have seen. Sport Rider ( http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_1004_2010_honda_nt700v/index.html) has an extensive write up on it. Cutting to the last paragraph:

As lightweight sport-tourers go the NT700V performs exactly as advertised. Manageable power is perfect for someone not looking to enter the sportbike market, yet wants something capable of occasional backroad jaunts along the way. It'll take you somewhere far from home without gulping gas or breaking your (or your pillion's) back as well. Though it's this comfortable ride that makes for a less than exciting experience when the road turns exciting, the NT is still surprisingly capable. That being said, the technology behind the NT700V is long in the tooth already and if it were me, I might be looking to spend my $9999 on other Japanese-or even German-alternatives

I like Hondas and have owned several. I may well own one again but not this model. I drive a boring Ford Taurus for my cage. It does all sorts of things reasonably well, gets decent gas mileage, hauls all kinds of stuff and people and is basically comfortable. I still have it even though it is boring because it does these things reasonably well. If I wanted a Taurus for a bike maybe the NT700 would fit the bill. There is a market for such bikes. I expect different things from a bike.

ultracyclist
03-10-2010, 02:31 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but next year Triumph plans to introduce the 675cc version triple of their 1050cc Tiger.
The 675cc sportier engine will be retuned for torque and mid-range performance and less HP (that engine just sizzles now).

So in 2011, we will have BMW, Honda, Triumph, H-D, Motoguzzi, Yam, Suz, Kawa, Aprilia, have I missed any, all clawing in the mid-range (650-800cc)market.
Let the games begin!

oldhway
03-10-2010, 03:51 PM
Not to hijack this thread, but next year Triumph plans to introduce the 675cc version triple of their 1050cc Tiger.
The 675cc sportier engine will be retuned for torque and mid-range performance and less HP (that engine just sizzles now).

So in 2011, we will have BMW, Honda, Triumph, H-D, Motoguzzi, Yam, Suz, Kawa, Aprilia, have I missed any, all clawing in the mid-range (650-800cc)market.
Let the games begin!

Typically with that much competition, the big winners are the motorcyclist.

I have had a VStrom 650 and Suzuki should offer that in an "RT" style bike. It is one of the all time great motors.

BUDDINGGEEZER
03-10-2010, 04:22 PM
Innovation :)

http://www.verrill.com/misc/honda-innovations.jpg

And, Sixteen years, more than a decade and a half, earlier...

http://www.verrill.com/misc/bmw-innovations.jpg

For what it is worth, a rather well-known longtime (and VERY long distance) BMW Rider has one and seems to like it quite a bit.

It appears to me that BMW owners are at the top of bike bashers.

Honda may have been reading this forum about how many want BMW to make the K75RT again and cash in. Now that Honda has made a similar bike, you guys are bashing it.

I thought the K75C I had was rather mundane and unexciting, a recurring theme about the "Dullville" in this thread.

Too heavy, the Honda is 47lbs lighter than the K75RT 567/520. Power is 75HP for the K. 65HP for the NT. 1/4 mile times K75-13.5/ Nt-14.0. Top speed K75-116mph, NT-115mph.

I'm guessing that after inflation adjusting the K75RT had a much higher price.

These specs are from http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/

Ralph Sims

ted
03-10-2010, 04:34 PM
You quoted this part of my post, did you see it?


For what it is worth, a rather well-known longtime (and VERY long distance) BMW Rider has one and seems to like it quite a bit.

I think pointing out that Honda calling things like ABS on a 2010 bike a "Honda Innovation" is well-placed, ABS has been on bikes for 20 years, fuel injection for at least 25 years, and shaft drives, well, even quite a bit longer than that.

criminaldesign
03-10-2010, 06:08 PM
personally, i don't care for the built in luggage system.

jkbales
03-11-2010, 01:49 AM
It appears to me that BMW owners are at the top of bike bashers.

Honda may have been reading this forum about how many want BMW to make the K75RT again and cash in. Now that Honda has made a similar bike, you guys are bashing it.

I thought the K75C I had was rather mundane and unexciting, a recurring theme about the "Dullville" in this thread.

Too heavy, the Honda is 47lbs lighter than the K75RT 567/520. Power is 75HP for the K. 65HP for the NT. 1/4 mile times K75-13.5/ Nt-14.0. Top speed K75-116mph, NT-115mph.

I'm guessing that after inflation adjusting the K75RT had a much higher price.

These specs are from http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/

Ralph Sims

Honda says a NT700V has a curb weight of 562 pounds and yes, it's 50 or so pounds lighter than the K75RT (a 1980s design). The Honda is still 100 pounds more than the F800ST and almost the same as the R1200RT. It's no "lightweight" by any standard, except maybe compared to a Gold Wing - 928 pounds! - and pointing out facts like this is not bashing.

The NT700V would be a much nicer ride if it were slimmed down as many other bikes have been. I just do not see it as a viable alternative to a true middleweight sport-tourer unless there is some very compelling reason: legal size/power/license restrictions; insurance; import restrictions (remember why we have 700cc bikes in the first place); or whatever. With the BMW, your money obviously buys engineering and materials that reduce weight and improve performance.

BTW, I like Hondas just fine. I've owned all of the Japanese makes at one time or another. Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Suzuki. They were mostly reliable, fun and the price was right.

BUDDINGGEEZER
03-11-2010, 02:04 AM
Honda says a NT700V has a curb weight of 562 pounds and yes, it's 50 or so pounds lighter than the K75RT (a 1980s design). The Honda is still 100 pounds more than the F800ST and almost the same as the R1200RT. It's no "lightweight" by any standard, except maybe compared to a Gold Wing - 928 pounds! - and pointing out facts like this is not bashing.

The NT700V would be a much nicer ride if it were slimmed down as many other bikes have been. I just do not see it as a viable alternative to a true middleweight sport-tourer unless there is some very compelling reason: legal size/power/license restrictions; insurance; import restrictions (remember why we have 700cc bikes in the first place); or whatever. With the BMW, your money obviously buys engineering and materials that reduce weight and improve performance.

BTW, I like Hondas just fine. I've owned all of the Japanese makes at one time or another. Yamaha, Kawasaki, Honda, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Suzuki. They were mostly reliable, fun and the price was right.

I actually agree with you. It's not a bike I would buy, however my point is so many on this forum have wished the F800ST was a RT or BMW would make a K75RT and are bashing a different brand bike that is so close to the K75RT.

I wonder why die hard Bemmerphiles even care what anyone else makes.

Ralph Sims

fracture
03-11-2010, 03:25 AM
personally, i don't care for the built in luggage system.

Agreed. What happens after a tip over? I would rather have a detachable bag that can be easily replaced. And, those integrated bags may make some maintenance actions a bit harder. They would always be in the way.

gertiektn
03-11-2010, 03:54 AM
I don't like them, all that huge weight defeats what a motorcycle is to me.

You don't need it to tour or sport ride.

you like the weight... get a cage.

yeah! get a cage.

rreynold6
03-11-2010, 06:08 AM
Looks like an updated, somewhat less ugly, Pacific Coast. Even the engine is almost the same size. Being a Honda, it is probably a good bike and very functional, in a generic, bland sort of way.

jforgo
03-11-2010, 06:37 AM
I don't like them, all that huge weight defeats what a motorcycle is to me.

You don't need it to tour or sport ride.

you like the weight... get a cage.

yeah! get a cage.

I agree! Sure, you "can" make a heavier bike do more things, if you work at it. And the more riding is work, the less fun it becomes. What's the point in that?

I can't believe how heavy a lot of bikes have become. I guess I am old school; I think, if you can't pick it up and push it by yourself, it is too big, and you shouldn't be riding it. :hide Maybe this is why so many such riders do not travel alone.

roncooper
03-11-2010, 01:43 PM
My 91 K75RT weighs 600 lbs full of fuel on a certified scale. Has it gained weight from dirt/oil buildup etc, or did BMW understate the weight?

ultracyclist
03-11-2010, 02:40 PM
Doesn't that bike have heat issues for the riders?
What is the big attraction to the Honda Pacific 800?

Trickster
03-12-2010, 01:13 AM
NT is a gr8 looking midweight tourer, IMO.
To bash other mfgs. shows a sign of insecurity or some type of justification in owning "their" brand.
I enjoy "all" bikes regardless of mfgs. Why? Choice is wonderful, what if you were in U.S.S.R. and your choice was only Ural:scratch lol.
Seems North America is infatuated with the huge displacement bikes, perhaps Europe too, what with the 2300 cc Triumph.
When on vacation in Mexico, Asia, bikes were everywhere, but not usually more that 150cc, perhaps due to $$$ and that is their "only" means of transportation.

We are spoiled with choices, and yet we find it easy to be critical of it.
I just purchased a 31 year old 500cc Honda to toy around with, its awesome, my 1st Honda, and it is shaft drive without a history of catastrophic FD failures.:thumb

ted
03-12-2010, 01:38 AM
Interesting you bring up the U.S.S.R., where people were told what they could and couldn't say and think.

knary
03-12-2010, 04:10 AM
NT is a gr8 looking midweight tourer, IMO.
To bash other mfgs. shows a sign of insecurity or some type of justification in owning "their" brand.
I enjoy "all" bikes regardless of mfgs. Why? Choice is wonderful, what if you were in U.S.S.R. and your choice was only Ural:scratch lol.
Seems North America is infatuated with the huge displacement bikes, perhaps Europe too, what with the 2300 cc Triumph.
When on vacation in Mexico, Asia, bikes were everywhere, but not usually more that 150cc, perhaps due to $$$ and that is their "only" means of transportation.

We are spoiled with choices, and yet we find it easy to be critical of it.
I just purchased a 31 year old 500cc Honda to toy around with, its awesome, my 1st Honda, and it is shaft drive without a history of catastrophic FD failures.:thumb


That doesn't mean some bikes aren't really boring or ugly or otherwise unappealing.

Trickster
03-13-2010, 12:18 AM
That doesn't mean some bikes aren't really boring or ugly or otherwise unappealing.

True enough, there are some ugly bikes out in the world, but "Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder":drink

I still think the NT is a good looking midweight that may steal some sales from the BMW lineup.

As far as Ural...well someday I think I might like the sidecar in my fleet,:scratch

With 2 wheel drive it might extend my riding season.:thumb

ANDYVH
04-10-2010, 04:56 AM
Perhaps instead of the F800S and F800ST (which were too close in style and looks) BMW should revisit the F800 market with the F800R and a F800ST with a slightly larger fairing and bags more like those on the R12 series.

Light weight, belt drive, easy handling, great power (much better than the Deauville) some fairing and bags and a price point a few thousand below the R12R, and BMW would have a great marketable bike!

knary
04-10-2010, 12:32 PM
Saw the Honda on the street the other day. Nice looking, if not striking, bike. It looks like an ST1300 puppy. I was not at all surprised that the pilot was pushing 70, riding both very cautiously and as though he'd put in a lot of miles over many years. It fills the exact niche that the K75 did. Not too sporty. Not too fast. Relatively comfortable. Relatively benign. More appliance than motorcycle.

bikerfish1100
04-10-2010, 12:45 PM
Saw the Honda on the street the other day. .... It fills the exact niche that the K75 did. Not too sporty. Not too fast. Relatively comfortable. Relatively benign. More appliance than motorcycle.

yeah, that is true. a well-sorted and suspension-improved K75S would act much like an electric carving knife confronted with a roast of a curvy road. slice & dice, coming up. ;)

knary
04-10-2010, 12:54 PM
:ha

tessler
04-10-2010, 01:42 PM
In the spirit of prepping it for sale, I'm re-christening my bike Knary75 and modding it with Husky logo stickers. :thumb

knary
04-10-2010, 02:19 PM
In the spirit of prepping it for sale, I'm re-christening my bike Knary75 and modding it with Husky logo stickers. :thumb

Go get that R1200R already, ya font happy dummy. :ha

tessler
04-10-2010, 03:33 PM
Go get that R1200R already, ya font happy dummy. :haActually, not going for an R. (but you won't be surprised when you see it!).

oldhway
04-16-2010, 09:53 PM
Finally saw and sat on the NV700T today. Not bad. Comfortable riding position and a good seat height. Some of the panels felt a little cheap (Fairing pocket cover and saddle bag plastic) but overall nice looking/feeling bike. Salesman said they were selling too.

Hope BMW is paying attention as another part of the the sport touring pie gets served up by a different manufacturer. Not a good time to lose market share.

36654
04-16-2010, 10:57 PM
Ya know, the Honda makes me think fondly of my old K75c. If that bike would've had a RS type fairing, I would probably still be riding it.

The F800 looks nice, but I like a drive shaft.

wuli959
04-29-2010, 02:56 PM
Ya know, the Honda makes me think fondly of my old K75c. If that bike would've had a RS type fairing, I would probably still be riding it.

The F800 looks nice, but I like a drive shaft.

I bought my first airhead RS in '79. The fairing was the best I've ever used.

There was a dealer "back in the day"(Grassroots?) that use to retro fit the airhead RS fairing on K75 bikes. Not sure how many they did but I owned one for about a year. It looked like it belonged on the bike and was a nice ride

fracture
05-02-2010, 02:57 AM
A local Honda/Kawasaki dealer had a demo day today (May 1). I thought this was somewhat strange as in the past I had always been refused test rides on Japanese bikes.

I took a demo ride on the NT700. The test rides were organized in groups with a set route. The route was mainly freeway. I am guessing the route was about 6 to 8 miles in all.

A short ride such as this is helpful in some ways but I have found that I need to live with a bike for a while to determine if it is a fit.

The good: Pretty zippy, but I am on an airhead now so just about anything else would probably feel quicker than the airhead. I raised the windshield to its highest position before the ride. Very little noise, little turbulence, but your arms and shoulders will be in the wind. I would rate the wind protection as pretty good, but I would like to take the same ride on a cold day. I might have a different opinion then. There is a bit of vibration but I would rate the vibration as pretty low and not enough to be a deal breaker. The riding position is about perfect for me.

The bad: On deceleration and coasting, there appears to be a rather loud whine, I guess it is gear whine. I have never heard something like this before so I cannot say for sure what it is. It was a somewhat cool day here today (about 75) and the heat from the engine was noticeable. The seat got warm, my thighs got warm, and I would bet that on a summer day when it hits 95 here this bike will be a hot ride.

Would I buy one? Maybe. Hard for me to say right now.

I also took a ride on an ST 1300. Of course, compared to the NT700, it is a much more refined ride. Excellent shifting. The engine is butter smooth, like sitting on a turbine engine. I did not notice a bit of vibration, at least not in the rev ranges that I was using. The weight of the bike disappeared once under way. Wind protection is pretty good, but again I would like to ride one on a cold day. Like the NT700, engine heat will be a problem. The seat got warm and I could feel the heat on my legs and butt. This may not be a good bike for summer riding in Texas. If money was no object, I would take the ST over the NT700 but only if Honda put it on a diet. Moving such a heavy bike around the garage would be a chore. And, Honda needs to do something about the engine heat reaching the rider.

36654
05-02-2010, 10:35 AM
A local Honda/Kawasaki dealer had a demo day today (May 1). I thought this was somewhat strange as in the past I had always been refused test rides on Japanese bikes.

I took a demo ride on the NT700. The test rides were organized in groups with a set route. The route was mainly freeway. I am guessing the route was about 6 to 8 miles in all.

A short ride such as this is helpful in some ways but I have found that I need to live with a bike for a while to determine if it is a fit.

The good: Pretty zippy, but I am on an airhead now so just about anything else would probably feel quicker than the airhead. I raised the windshield to its highest position before the ride. Very little noise, little turbulence, but your arms and shoulders will be in the wind. I would rate the wind protection as pretty good, but I would like to take the same ride on a cold day. I might have a different opinion then. There is a bit of vibration but I would rate the vibration as pretty low and not enough to be a deal breaker. The riding position is about perfect for me.

The bad: On deceleration and coasting, there appears to be a rather loud whine, I guess it is gear whine. I have never heard something like this before so I cannot say for sure what it is. It was a somewhat cool day here today (about 75) and the heat from the engine was noticeable. The seat got warm, my thighs got warm, and I would bet that on a summer day when it hits 95 here this bike will be a hot ride.

Would I buy one? Maybe. Hard for me to say right now.

I also took a ride on an ST 1300. Of course, compared to the NT700, it is a much more refined ride. Excellent shifting. The engine is butter smooth, like sitting on a turbine engine. I did not notice a bit of vibration, at least not in the rev ranges that I was using. The weight of the bike disappeared once under way. Wind protection is pretty good, but again I would like to ride one on a cold day. Like the NT700, engine heat will be a problem. The seat got warm and I could feel the heat on my legs and butt. This may not be a good bike for summer riding in Texas. If money was no object, I would take the ST over the NT700 but only if Honda put it on a diet. Moving such a heavy bike around the garage would be a chore. And, Honda needs to do something about the engine heat reaching the rider.

Interesting observations. What Beemers have you owned? The only thing that I never liked about my k75 was the heat from the radiator/engine which seemed to be "ducted" under the tank to the seat. My R11RS is much more comfortable in that regard.

fracture
05-02-2010, 07:56 PM
I have owned an R80RT and two R100RTs. The second R100RT is my current ride. I had a K100 and I hated it. As you mentioned, like the K75, the engine heat was terrible. The seat and side covers got so hot on a summer day it was miserable to ride. Also, that buzzy vibration drove me nuts.

36654
05-02-2010, 08:59 PM
I have owned an R80RT and two R100RTs. The second R100RT is my current ride. I had a K100 and I hated it. As you mentioned, like the K75, the engine heat was terrible. The seat and side covers got so hot on a summer day it was miserable to ride. Also, that buzzy vibration drove me nuts.

That was the beauty of the K75.......no buzz.

osbornk
05-02-2010, 10:02 PM
I have owned an R80RT and two R100RTs. The second R100RT is my current ride. I had a K100 and I hated it. As you mentioned, like the K75, the engine heat was terrible. The seat and side covers got so hot on a summer day it was miserable to ride. Also, that buzzy vibration drove me nuts.

I also had a K100RT I hated for the same reasons you said. I replaced it with a K75RT that was as smooth as an electric motor and with the optional engine covers, it was cool. It did everything well but it didn't stir my soul and reminded me of the UJMs I had owned. I replaced it with a R80RT that didn't do anything as well but it had a soul. I still have it and may keep it til I die. I then bought a R1200CLC only because it was a steal and I planned on selling it in the spring. I became attached to it because I finally had a BMW with a low seat even though it goes against everything a BMW stands for (but it has soul). I don't want another water cooled BMW.

milo
05-02-2010, 10:16 PM
Perhaps instead of the F800S and F800ST (which were too close in style and looks) BMW should revisit the F800 market with the F800R and a F800ST with a slightly larger fairing and bags more like those on the R12 series.

Light weight, belt drive, easy handling, great power (much better than the Deauville) some fairing and bags and a price point a few thousand below the R12R, and BMW would have a great marketable bike!

I couldn't agree more Andy. The 800ST just needs fine tuning and BMW would have a wonderful, light weight 800RT sporting tourer. IMO to make it right for the US market BMW could add adjustable bars with the low position about where they are now. Two position pegs allowing for more knee room would be welcome. Also a low muffler with 2 nice full size bags. If they really wanted to make it a nice RT a little more gas capacity, comfort seat, manually adjustable windshield (like the R1100RS had), and maybe widen the 6 speed ratios.

dduelin
05-26-2010, 08:28 PM
Agreed. What happens after a tip over? I would rather have a detachable bag that can be easily replaced. And, those integrated bags may make some maintenance actions a bit harder. They would always be in the way.It has tip-over wings like an ST1300 or K1200LT. Drop it it a stop or at low speed and it only scuffs a $15 black plastic cover. If it goes goes over a bit harder and scratches or damages the pannier it would have to be replaced just like an non-integrated bag. Pricey yes, but price any saddlebag or pannier these days. They are all $$$. In the meantime the tip-over wing protects the bags and fairing from hitting ground in the usual garage or parking lot drop.

I rode last weekend with a fellow that has a stable that I really don't know how big it is. He has bikes from the USA, Asia, and Europe, modern, classic, vintage eras. UJMs to a factory racer or two. Italian, Japanese, German, English, American. Sunday he was riding his new NT700V which he plans to ride to Redmond in July. Go figure.

rockbottom
05-27-2010, 12:12 AM
I can't imagine it's as much pure fun to ride as the F800ST but wonder if the reliability is better.

mpmarty
06-01-2010, 12:10 AM
Hmmm? A mid-range touring bike with built in luggage and shaft drive. Probably reliable as hell and no final drive issues to worry about, and Honda dealers everywhere. Also 700cc insurance would be cheap too. Now why would anyone want to buy this?:dunno

Yeah, "mid-range" as in middling poor in all respects. Lacking adequate power, room and cargo capacity. No interest here in mediocrity.

rocketman
06-01-2010, 07:28 PM
Yeah, "mid-range" as in middling poor in all respects. Lacking adequate power, room and cargo capacity. No interest here in mediocrity.

2700 miles on one might just change your mind....
Personally I love mine and last weekend on a ride with another fairly spirited rider on a vstrom (sp) (the larger displacement version, what ever that is) he said he had to really work his to keep pace with me thru the mountains. So I guess its a matter of taste/perspective. Its a very responsive machine, easy to ride and the reports of weight and lack of power I think are really over stated. But then I have been riding since the days that we rode two up fully loaded on machines making less than 40 HP and managed to get down the road just fine, so 65 is quite adequate for most riding two up or one. Bigger is not always better at least for some and everyone I know and everyone on the nt-owners forums both here and overseas seem to be generally very pleased with them...

RM

BMorleyW
06-02-2010, 04:52 AM
I'm coming in to this discussion late, and after 114 posts on this subject, probably should not come in at all. But, since this is a "forum" thought I'd add my thoughts. I've had my 1150RT for about 3 years and have put just over 30,000 miles on it. I've taken it to Alaska, upper Saskatawan, Prince Edward Island and, of course over our Rockies many times. This Spring, my friend Susan and I went to Phoenix to visit her daughter and son and law and we decided to rent a bike so we could ride with them (they have a 650 Suzuki). I had almost unlimited choices to rent and decided on the BMW 800 ST. I absolutely loved it. (Eric and I traded for a couple of hours and, although the Suzuki is a great machine it really couldn't compare for comfort or zip with the Beermer.) My 1150 RT is almost 700 pounds fully wet and I could just manhandle the 800 ST. I thought how great it would have been on many of the gravel (turning to mud) camping site roads that I took on my travels over the past two summers. I really think that, if I were not riding two-up an awful lot, I'd have bought me a new 800 ST. However, that's the rub. Susan wasn't nearly as comfortable on the smaller bike as she is on the RT. I've ridden the 800 GS a number of times, fine bike, but no fairing and very high seat. Guess I'll stick with my RT. Steve