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JT_R1200RT
05-12-2009, 12:03 AM
I tried picking up power for a TomTom Rider2 GPS from the unused stock GPS connector on my bike using a BMW adapter harness (BMW # 83300413585). I checked everything with a meter, and it was good, but when the TomTom power harness was plugged into the GPS holding cradle, the Cruise control would not work, the set light would never come on. The behavior was the same whether or not the GPS was plugged into the cradle.

I took the bike into the BMW shop for a quick check, they ran a code check and test, and it showed no faults on the Cruise control. I was going to bring the Bike back for a service until I discovered it was the power connector. I was able to reset the Cruise control by doing the following:

Switch key power off to the bike.
Disconnect the power connector from the TomTom GPS cradle.
Switch the Cruise control button on.
Hold the set switch up.
Turn key power on.

The computer saw the set switch and the set light came on momentarily. The Cruise control would now work when driving the bike. On the first try, just disconnecting the GPS power connector did not initially seem to reset the Cruise control, I was trying this to see if the bike saw the set switch. This worked, though all the steps may not have been necessary.

I checked for shorts and could not find any. On the BMW adapter harness the volt meter showed two hot leads, one would read battery power when the key was turned on, the other would show about 10v until the bike was started then it would jump to 13v. I tried picking up power from both of these connections and they caused the same fault to occur on the Cruise control. I ended up pulling battery power from the fused side of an auxiliary outlet connector I added that connects directly to the battery.

Everything works correctly now. I had hoped to have a switched power connection, but this was easier and it is fuse protected.

Thoughts on this strange issue?

JT

108625
05-12-2009, 12:24 AM
That CANBUS and EWS were brought to you by the same people behind the HAL 9000?

akbeemer
05-12-2009, 12:34 AM
Bob? You should not have said that about me, Bob. I know how to communicate with the Canbus system in your bike, Bob. Let's go for a ride, Bob.

alzyck
05-12-2009, 12:35 AM
Waiting on Marc Hyman :lurk

cjack
05-12-2009, 01:16 AM
I have always used the two wires from the GPS harness on the bike that are Brown (ground) and Red/White (fused power but turns off as the accessory power socket does after the key is off with the "can bus" bikes).
Someone disagreed with that insisting that both the red/white and the blue/green wires both connected together were needed to connect to the positive (+12) lead of the GPS.
Not likely, but I have only a guess as to what the blue/green wire is used for. I notice that it goes to a terminal on the ZFE controller which is labled TAA. That is the same label which has been used for wheel speed for the instrument pod and the turnsignal relay input to turn off the turnsignal after a certain distance. So, I wondered if it could be a signal which allows the GPS to record miles, etc. when it has lost a signal as in tunnels, big cities, etc. Just a guess and maybe it has never been used by the BMW Garmins. But I don't think it's a power source for the GPS and has never been hooked up to any of my GPSes over the years on several bikes/models.

108625
05-12-2009, 02:12 AM
Bob? You should not have said that about me, Bob. I know how to communicate with the Canbus system in your bike, Bob. Let's go for a ride, Bob.

I'd better not forget my helmet:doh

marchyman
05-12-2009, 03:11 AM
Waiting on Marc Hyman :lurk

:blush :nono

I actually started to reply but then figured I''d just let it slide this once! I see where that got me. :doh

OK: Don't blame the CAN bus, blame the ZFE. :deal



So, I wondered if it could be a signal which allows the GPS to record miles, etc. when it has lost a signal as in tunnels, big cities, etc. Just a guess and maybe it has never been used by the BMW Garmins.


I've also assumed that it was for GPS loss of signal dead reckoning. But then I also assumed it was used by the BMW branded GPS units. Goes to show what I know.

AZ-J
05-12-2009, 05:15 AM
:
I've also assumed that it was for GPS loss of signal dead reckoning. But then I also assumed it was used by the BMW branded GPS units. Goes to show what I know.

The Zumos do not have dead reckoning although it is rumoured the BMW Zumo did, even if the 550 did not. The new 660 will not connect to the Canbus, I have one and my dealer gave me back the unusable BMW connector cable I had. I've already sold it.

marchyman
05-12-2009, 06:10 AM
The Zumos do not have dead reckoning although it is rumoured the BMW Zumo did, even if the 550 did not. The new 660 will not connect to the Canbus, I have one and my dealer gave me back the unusable BMW connector cable I had. I've already sold it.

Of course not. Only the various bike controllers (ZFE, BMS-K, I-ABS, etc) connect to the CAN-bus [that comment is to make alzyck happy :stick].

alzyck
05-12-2009, 12:34 PM
I used to have a Gold Wing with a built in GPS (by Garmin). The GPS on the Gold Wing is connected through the ECU (the computer) so if the bike is moving, the GPS programming features are disabled. All you can do is zoom in or out and control the volume. It's supposed to be a "safety feature" (AKA a PIA) so you aren't programming the GPS while moving.

I put an aftermarket GPS on my RT. When I went through the wiring diagrams and saw BMW had a speed sensor pulse that went to the BMW branded Garmin GPS, I just assumed it performed a similar function as on the Gold Wing.

Anyone know if the programming buttons on the BMW GPS still function when the bike is moving?

cjack
05-12-2009, 12:48 PM
Yes. All the buttons and screens function.

greenwald
05-12-2009, 01:23 PM
I consulted with Ron @ Hyper-Lites during my install, and along with tech advice from John at Nick's BMW, came up with a cool way to tap into a relay wire (so when the ignition is off, so are accessories) that is NOT in any way tied to CAN-bus.

You simply remove the cover over the dealer-diagnostic port of an R1200RT and inside is a black/yellow wire. Tap into this for any and all accessories for relay compliance, and CAN-bus doesn't even know you're there, so you can't trip any faults!


I hijacked these comments from one of my own posts, where I was commenting on how my Hyper-Lite installation is totally seperate from CAN-bus (as will all future accessories!).

It's an easily accessed relay wire that keeps accessories 'married' to the ignition (and you may fuse if you wish), and CAN-bus isn't even aware of them.

Hope this helps.

cjack
05-12-2009, 01:57 PM
That is a common place many have used for relay power. Actually they have used the Blue/Green wire. It is basically ignition on. I don't know of a Black/Yellow one. I haven't seen any issues with it for the kind of current that a typical relay uses, however some dealers blame it for various issues. Probably erroneously.
I have always used the parking light circuit. It seems to be transparent.

AZ-J
05-12-2009, 02:46 PM
Anyone know if the programming buttons on the BMW GPS still function when the bike is moving?


Yes. All the buttons and screens function.

All the buttons and screens function only if you answer "YES" to overiding the safety protection, the first time you try to use it and it is locked. I don't know anyone that has not answered YES, though. My 660 was installed Friday, and I did so 25 feet away from the dealership.

deilenberger
05-12-2009, 03:58 PM
Not likely, but I have only a guess as to what the blue/green wire is used for. I notice that it goes to a terminal on the ZFE controller which is labled TAA. That is the same label which has been used for wheel speed for the instrument pod and the turnsignal relay input to turn off the turnsignal after a certain distance. So, I wondered if it could be a signal which allows the GPS to record miles, etc. when it has lost a signal as in tunnels, big cities, etc. Just a guess and maybe it has never been used by the BMW Garmins. But I don't think it's a power source for the GPS and has never been hooked up to any of my GPSes over the years on several bikes/models.
Jack,

Not a guess - correct. Works with the BMW Navigator series.. (and if you wire correctly, selected Garmin GPS's..) Have it on mine - and it knows where I am when going through long tunnels. Kinda cool actually.

If the OP is using this as a power source - I can see where this would load down the vehicle speed signal - and the cruise control wouldn't work. Ditto if the wires were connected together.

andrewsi
05-12-2009, 07:02 PM
As for the 660's safety feature, you can disable it when the warning comes up, there's also a menu option to disable it without waiting for the warning in the first place. Basically, it's the user's choice...

mpmarty
05-12-2009, 09:20 PM
My Garmin assumes that if I enter a tunnel I will exit from it at the other end. No need for "dead" reckoning.:nyah

cjack
05-12-2009, 10:01 PM
My Garmin assumes that if I enter a tunnel I will exit from it at the other end. No need for "dead" reckoning.:nyah

Does your Garmin guess at the length of the tunnel?

deilenberger
05-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Does your Garmin guess at the length of the tunnel?
Or the speed you're going through the tunnel? :doh

AZ-J
05-13-2009, 03:00 PM
To the best of my knowledge, one of the last GPS to have dead reckoning was the Motorrad III. The Zumo 550 does not according to its specifications here (https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=135&pID=414#specsTab).