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View Full Version : New fill quantity for '05 and later final drives...



cjack
05-09-2009, 09:37 PM
I just read that the new specification for the new final drive fill is 200ml total or 180ml refill. To be done at 600mi and every 12K mi.
The old fill amount was thought to push oil out the seals when the drive heated up. And the debris from lack of oil changes was thought to cause premature wear.
The newest maintenance schedules show these updated recommendations.

henzilla
05-10-2009, 12:06 AM
Thanks for the info... will alter my cheat sheet in the shop

Semper_Fi
05-10-2009, 03:23 PM
My Repair CD call outs 230ml.

Where are the new numbers coming from?

mikes90094
05-10-2009, 03:44 PM
My CD dated 2/09 (3rd edition) calls for 220ml.

cjack
05-10-2009, 03:48 PM
My Repair CD call outs 230ml.

Where are the new numbers coming from?

BMW...and it will be in the newest maintenance recommendations (05/09).

afmeyer
05-11-2009, 02:30 AM
Where do you read these repair/maintenance recommendations?

Semper_Fi
05-11-2009, 10:51 AM
BMW...and it will be in the newest maintenance recommendations (05/09).


Jack - thanks

Does the newest version CD specification supercede all previous ones?

PGlaves
05-11-2009, 12:28 PM
Where do you read these repair/maintenance recommendations?

At the dealership where he occasionally works, of course!!

cjack
05-11-2009, 01:42 PM
Does the newest version CD specification supercede all previous ones?

Yes. The RSD dvd comes out I think every quarter.

Semper_Fi
05-11-2009, 06:46 PM
Yes. The RSD dvd comes out I think every quarter.

So based on this information - any rear end fluid servicing done will now be with a 180ml refill instead of what is currentlly listed in my 09/2007 Version 1 BMW RepRom?

cjack
05-11-2009, 09:52 PM
So based on this information - any rear end fluid servicing done will now be with a 180ml refill instead of what is currentlly listed in my 09/2007 Version 1 BMW RepRom?

I have yet to see 05/09, but yes, that's what the BMW info said.

afmeyer
05-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Is there any source for these TSBs? I like to do some of my maintenance myself. especially changing fluids.
My bike is at 12,000 miles and I had planned to change the FD lube. The CD I bought is about 8 months old and I guess outdated.

Semper_Fi
05-11-2009, 10:57 PM
I have yet to see 05/09, but yes, that's what the BMW info said.

thanks - i wonder why the 40-50ml difference/

Doesn't seem like much......:lurk

cjack
05-12-2009, 01:47 AM
thanks - i wonder why the 40-50ml difference/

Doesn't seem like much......:lurk

Agreed, but there isn't much room in these drives. 240ml is above half way up the side of the drive when the bike is on the center stand (yes I put center stands on them...what are they thinking!)
Last spring we rode to the UP for the RA rally which was the first longish ride with these then new '08 K12Ses. When we got there, my drive had a little oil in the center hole...I was sure that I wiped both drives clean after the 600 mile fill. I took the plug out (at 3 o clock) and since the drive is on the left side and the bike is on the side stand, oil should not run out. It did a bit with a bit of a pop of pressure. I worried about the drive all the way home, but no more oil appeared then or on the trip to WY and back and since then. And it was hot out at times. The drive was always just warm.
BTW, the magnetic plug is always clean save a tiny bit of black powder goo.
So now BMW comes out with the 180 ml refill instead of 230 ml. And comments that the old amount can cause oil to push past the seal.
The light goes on!

Harrington
05-12-2009, 03:51 AM
I'm going to bookmark this thread and come back to it in 12 months. We'll see if this is the fix.

roborider
05-12-2009, 06:51 AM
I wonder why they just don't design the drive with an air vent like the differential on a car. It would have to be made to stop water getting in but that wouldn't be hard to do. This allows the pressure to bleed away as needed.

mneblett
05-12-2009, 10:30 AM
I wonder why they just don't design the drive with an air vent like the differential on a car. It would have to be made to stop water getting in but that wouldn't be hard to do. This allows the pressure to bleed away as needed.That had to be a conscious decision on BMW AG's part -- all the drives on the flying brick Ks and R bikes back through at least the /5's had vents.

roborider
05-12-2009, 03:59 PM
Interesting, I did not know that, and I owned a /5. Thanks.

cjack
05-12-2009, 04:20 PM
I'm thinking that the breathing air causes water moisture to get into the oil. Thus the "lifetime" fill. It seems as though the debris from the gears were forgotten, however.

Bruce_H
05-12-2009, 06:39 PM
My final drive oil (1200GSA) was changed by the dealer at the 600 mile service. Now at the 12K service I did it my self. I drained out 550cc of oil (installed by the dealer) and put the same amount back. Should I drain it again and put back the new requirement of 180cc?

Also I found the bearings a bit loose. The tire wiggles side to side a bit. I called the dealer but they said to drive it and it would tighten up. When hot it was tight but cold it is loose. Should I be concerned? Is there and adjustment in the tapered bearings? this bike is still under warranty, should I make them replace the bearings?

cjack
05-12-2009, 07:47 PM
I would not want any play in the drive...BMW spec is 1mm...or the pivot bearings in the swing arm. This could also be the rear wheel flange which fits into the drive (splined with a keeper). Anyway, I would want to know where this movement was. I was thinking if you operate the rear brake, and wiggle the wheel, the play should be gone if it is in the drive. If the play is still there, then look at the swing arm. As for the fill, the standard refill was 230ml and now is 180.

afmeyer
05-12-2009, 11:27 PM
I think the FD on the oilheads has a vent. I was surprised that the new drive on the 1200s didn't. Maybe the 50 ml less oil will allow enough space for the minimal volume increase of the oil and the expansion of the air.

roborider
05-13-2009, 12:24 AM
I agree with the hypothesis that the 'lifetime' fill likely removed the vent for moisture issues. But now that they have a scheduled oil change I wonder if a vent will reappear?

beemerberg
05-13-2009, 01:45 AM
C-jack--

Last week I just finished changing the Final Drive oil in my '05 RT (old oil came out clean, no drama) :brad .
I carefully measured 230 ml of 75w90 Mobil 1 synthetic in my measure-rite, and carefully sucked up 50 cc at a time (using a large syringe) and "injected" it into the abs hole--all as per the prescribed instructions.
At about 200 cc I noticed oil starting to come out of the drain plug hole....Doah!!! Forgot to put the plug back in before filling!!
Question 1: am I correct in assuming that (like the transmission), oil should be added until it reaches the lower threads of the plug hole....would THAT be the "new" 180 ml fill qty level??
I compensated for my blunder by adding in more oil...maybe a total of 250 ml. Should I drain and start all over? Can I just pull the (horizontal) drain plug with the drive in place (bike on center stand), and let the excess trickle out. Would it then be at 180 ml level? :hungover

cjack
05-13-2009, 02:39 AM
Question 1: am I correct in assuming that (like the transmission), oil should be added until it reaches the lower threads of the plug hole....would THAT be the "new" 180 ml fill qty level??
I compensated for my blunder by adding in more oil...maybe a total of 250 ml. Should I drain and start all over? Can I just pull the (horizontal) drain plug with the drive in place (bike on center stand), and let the excess trickle out. Would it then be at 180 ml level? :hungover

I think I would do that. On ADV Rider, some have experimented with the fill and found that 180 ml is just at the horiz fill plug. Measure what comes out just for a check.

afmeyer
05-13-2009, 03:33 AM
Well cjack, I want to thank you for providing this important info. I like doing my own work which is why I bought the CD in 7/08 for my 08 bike. Unfortunately, the data is outdated too quickly with no provision for updates by BMW. Other than fora like this, there's no source for BMW TSBs.
Are there any other recent changes that you can tell us?

ssls6
05-13-2009, 01:08 PM
Thanks for the updated information. Do they list a torque spec for the fill plug on the new style drives yet? I've been unable to find one.

cjack
05-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the updated information. Do they list a torque spec for the fill plug on the new style drives yet? I've been unable to find one.

Just offhand, no other changes come to mind...
I thought this one on the fill quantity was something that might be timely since folks are buying new bikes and riding them 600 miles as we speak.

They list the torque for the "drain" plug at 20 Nm. I think that's a bit high. I do mine by feel, but 15 Nm feels better.
And the fill plug on the newest drives at 20 Nm. That's the one they added about a year ago...I think at 11 o'clock on the back side.

Bruce_H
05-13-2009, 02:09 PM
I dropped my bike off at the dealers last night. They didn't know where the 1mm was measured from, the outside of the wheel or at the bearings?... The service writer said that bearings were a "wear" item and not covered by warranty. Seems like they should last longer then 12K? At this point I am waiting to hear.

deilenberger
05-13-2009, 02:14 PM
I dropped my bike off at the dealers last night. They didn't know where the 1mm was measured from, the outside of the wheel or at the bearings?... The service writer said that bearings were a "wear" item and not covered by warranty. Seems like they should last longer then 12K? At this point I am waiting to hear.
I'd be looking for another dealer or skip the service-writer and ask to talk to the shop manager. There is an SIB (Jack? Number?) on making this measurement - and it's at the outside edge of the rim. And bearings are NOT a wear item on a rear-drive or swingarm.

cjack
05-13-2009, 05:00 PM
I'd be looking for another dealer or skip the service-writer and ask to talk to the shop manager. There is an SIB (Jack? Number?) on making this measurement - and it's at the outside edge of the rim. And bearings are NOT a wear item on a rear-drive or swingarm.

There is a bulletin #33 001 05 (011), Date: February 2005 and though it speaks of the R1200GS, it pertains to all the new drives (the GS was the first out with that drive). The play is measured at the rim edge as specified in the bulletin.
Never heard of a dealer denying warranty for a loose or prematurely worn bearing within the 3y and 36K.

roborider
05-13-2009, 07:04 PM
Hey Jack, question for you since your the answer man lately! In the forum maintenance thread, the "how to's" show 75/90 oil for the final drive AND the transmission. My BMW and Haynes Service Manuals and my RT Owner's manual list straight 90 wt. But, BOTH my local dealer and Sierra BMW claim 75/140 for the transmission.

So what do they say where you work for the transmission? 75/90 or 75/140?

Thanks,
Robo

cjack
05-13-2009, 09:34 PM
Hey Jack, question for you since your the answer man lately! In the forum maintenance thread, the "how to's" show 75/90 oil for the final drive AND the transmission. My BMW and Haynes Service Manuals and my RT Owner's manual list straight 90 wt. But, BOTH my local dealer and Sierra BMW claim 75/140 for the transmission.

So what do they say where you work for the transmission? 75/90 or 75/140?

Thanks,
Robo

Just looking at the latest RSD in "Service Data" for the 1200/1300 bikes, BMW says to use the same gear oil in the transmission (0.9L fill level) as they recommend in the final drive (.18L) refill) which is Castrol SAF-XO. This Castro SAF-XO is synthetic, long drain, 75W90. BMWNA sells their brand (Spectro) of 75W90 synth since the Castrol is not readily available in the US. Our local dealer uses this in both the trans and bevel.

BMW has in the past recommended 75W140 in some of the bikes as I remember, but now all the ones I checked, K12RS, K11RT, R11RT, R1150RT all say straight 90 wt in the bevel and the transmission. I think they reconsidered all the recommendations recently.
Again the newest 1200/1300 bikes say SAF-XO in the trans and bevel.

Bruce_H
05-15-2009, 12:06 AM
The dealer called today, it was decided that there is excessive play in the bearings. Gee, that is what I thought... The decision is to re-build the FD. Aparently the parts and labor are less than simply replacing the drive. The parts are ordered and won't be here until next week so... No bike until then.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the FD. Other thant the fact this drive is under waranty (so it was decided) I would have liked to take it apart myself.