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glurkus
05-07-2009, 04:01 PM
My dealer informed me today that BMW has a TSB out recomending changing the final drive oil every two years or 12,000 miles on my '07 RT. I guess they changed their minds about a lifetime fill after the 600 mile inspection.

marcopolo
05-07-2009, 06:27 PM
My dealer informed me today that BMW has a TSB out recomending changing the final drive oil every two years or 12,000 miles on my '07 RT. I guess they changed their minds about a lifetime fill after the 600 mile inspection.

First it was lifetime fill, then with the introduction of the 2007 model-year bikes (around September 2006) they went to a FD fluid change at the running-in check (600 miles). I'm sure you're getting the straight goods from your dealer about the latest recommendation (to change it routinely), but I haven't actually seen it in writing though I have heard people talking about it. That said, I started doing it at "regular" intervals beginning in 2007.

hlothery
05-07-2009, 06:39 PM
Used to get all my service at RhineWest, before they stopped servicing bikes. They told me early on that, in their opinion, there was no such thing as lifetime lubrication, and recommended that I change the FD fluid at least at 12,000 mile intervals. Have done just that. Don't know if I'll have a failure, or even if the fluid changes have anything to do with the failures. Just doing all I can to prevent one.

mneblett
05-07-2009, 06:51 PM
I'm sure you're getting the straight goods from your dealer about the latest recommendation (to change it routinely), but I haven't actually seen it in writing though I have heard people talking about it. It does exist in writing -- it's been added by BMWNA to the maintenance checklist that the tech prints out when doing a service.

deilenberger
05-07-2009, 08:24 PM
Mischievous grin :brow Do you think we can get BMW to pay for the fluid change for those of us who bought their bikes just so they'd never have to pay to have the rear-drive fluid changed again?

rfisher
05-07-2009, 08:55 PM
I asked my dealer that very question regarding my '06 1200 Adventure. Pretty much got an "are you crazy" look as a response.

Roy F


Mischievous grin :brow Do you think we can get BMW to pay for the fluid change for those of us who bought their bikes just so they'd never have to pay to have the rear-drive fluid changed again?

Madhatter
05-07-2009, 09:34 PM
It's nice to have a service to perform--gives one a sense of control--but is this really the answer to the pesky FD failure issue? Is it just a lubrication issue? :scratch

R80RTJohnny
05-07-2009, 10:19 PM
In Canada it's now part of the 20k service. BMW Canada is in the process of revising their website and should have the new Maintenance Schedule posted soon.

Happy riding!

I would post the .pdf they sent me today but I'm sure as to how to do it.

PGlaves
05-08-2009, 12:37 AM
It's nice to have a service to perform--gives one a sense of control--but is this really the answer to the pesky FD failure issue? Is it just a lubrication issue? :scratch

I think it is partly a lubrication issue - but more a debris issue. Get it out with the oil change and bearing life will be better.

A little over 10 years ago BMW decided to do what sounded at the time like the dumbest idea ever. They installed GREASED, sealed bearings in transmissions filled with gear oil. It was counterintuitive but their reasoning was sound. Metal particles (from wear) were sloshing around in the oil and damaging bearings. So they used sealed, greased bearings to keep the debris out of the bearings. Bearing life improved dramatically. The same principle applies to changing final drive oil. Get the junk out!!

deilenberger
05-08-2009, 03:53 AM
And just as a followup.. I chatted with a few knowledgeable people who had done changes of oil to their rear-drive last weekend. One reported seeing munge (looked like moly dissolved in oil) come out of his rear drive at his 6,000 mile service and then less, but still some at 12,000 miles.

Mine was changed at the 600 mile service - and either BMW was doing a much better job of cleaning out the rear drives before putting them in service, or the tech doing the 600 mile service did an exceptional job.. 'cause when I changed the fluid at 24,000 miles, what came out looked *exactly* like what went in (BMW 75W-90 Synthetic - red in color.) I drained the old oil out into a clean aluminum roasting pan - and it was clear, debris and munge free, didn't look at all deteriorated. I would be comfortable doing 24,000 mile changes on this rear-drive based one what I saw.

But if BMW now wants 12k changes - so be it - I suspect the rash of rear-drive failures will recede into unpleasant memories and become a non-issue now. Not a bad thing at all.. just wish I had the bottom drain and top fill plugs on my rear drive.

PGlaves
05-08-2009, 04:12 AM
Every "initial" drain I've seen on these final drives comes out looking just like my gear oil when I drain it after having used a moly additive.

BMW advised a dealership I was at when they asked, that it was "left over from the manufacturing process."

My guess - and it is only a guess - is that either they burnish the gearset with moly paste, or they use a moly assembly lube when putting the drives together at the factory. Either would be a reasonable practice.

akbeemer
05-08-2009, 05:36 AM
.. just wish I had the bottom drain and top fill plugs on my rear drive.

Don,


Would you mind ordering the parts and retrofiting your bike with the new housing and letting us know the cost and pitfalls in doing so? ;)

glurkus
05-08-2009, 08:23 AM
Do you think they would void the warranty if I drilled and tapped a new drain hole at the bottom of the FD? :scratch

kthutchinson
05-08-2009, 10:57 AM
In Canada it's now part of the 20k service. BMW Canada is in the process of revising their website and should have the new Maintenance Schedule posted soon.

Happy riding!

I would post the .pdf they sent me today but I'm sure as to how to do it.

Where are the service schedules located on the BMW Canada website? When I click on the Service link I get redirected to the BMW Motorrad international site.

flars
05-08-2009, 11:50 AM
"...Do you think they would void the warranty if I drilled and tapped a new drain hole at the bottom of the FD?..."
Just on the outside chance that you aren't being facetious - There isn't anyplace in the bottom of the FD where a drain plug could be safely placed. BMW had to redesign the casting in order to get room for what they ended up with.

easy
05-08-2009, 01:22 PM
Do you think they would void the warranty if I drilled and tapped a new drain hole at the bottom of the FD? :scratch

I would want a commitment from the dealer before I did it, and I would still let the dealer install it. If they won't give you the commitment in writing, don't do it.

But you can bet one thing if "you" do it and your final drive fails, if they see anything that even resembles leaking oil from the aftermarket drain you install, you will pay for the repair.

I'll be willing to bet they will not put a drain in. I think the dealers like the extra bit of labor they get to charge.

It's amazing, in one breath they recommend changing the oil, yet the new K1300GT is referred to as a "Maintenance-free drive shaft drive . . ." on page 56 of the May ON.

BMW needs to get their story straight.

Easy :german

roborider
05-08-2009, 01:27 PM
Do you think they would void the warranty if I drilled and tapped a new drain hole at the bottom of the FD? :scratch

Yeah, I bet they would. But, as mentioned, the new casting has more material to accomodate the bottom drain plug (I was going to do this and so that's how I know). There doesn't seem to be enough material to tap a new one, and, it might weaken the housing and cause a crack. I suppose a welder might be able to build up material but this seems like supreme overkill. I don't know what kind of metal the housing is and it might not be possible or practical anyway.

Do you mount your own tires? If you do, the final drive oil is easy to replace and it gives you a chance to lubricate the splines, so in that sense, it's not a bad thing. Even if you remove your wheels and get tires mounted, it is right there and easy to do. The one time use nut is only about $1 from BMW.

Robo

joelaw
05-08-2009, 07:38 PM
[QUOTE=RoboRider;455562][B][COLOR="Navy"] The one time use nut is only about $1 from BMW.

I assume the one time feature of this nut is the result of some kind of locking feature in the nut. Is it a NYLOK nut or a deformed thread lock nut? If so, in either case could "blue locktite" be used as the locking feature if the original nut is reused.

I am not a cheapskate, just curious. I know, $10.00 plus tax will buy nearly a life time supply.:)

marcopolo
05-08-2009, 08:56 PM
Where are the service schedules located on the BMW Canada website? When I click on the Service link I get redirected to the BMW Motorrad international site.

Go to the home page here: http://www.bmw-motorrad.ca/En/

Go to the top and click on "Models", select "Tour" from the drop-down menu, then select R1200RT (assuming that's the model you want). When the RT page opens up, look over to the right side and you'll see three PDF files, one each for Spec Sheet, Brochure and Maintenance Schedule. That said, as already pointed out, the RT schedule there now is not the most up to date.

henzilla
05-08-2009, 09:14 PM
[QUOTE=RoboRider;455562][B][COLOR="Navy"] The one time use nut is only about $1 from BMW.

I assume the one time feature of this nut is the result of some kind of locking feature in the nut. Is it a NYLOK nut or a deformed thread lock nut? If so, in either case could "blue locktite" be used as the locking feature if the original nut is reused.

I am not a cheapskate, just curious. I know, $10.00 plus tax will buy nearly a life time supply.:)

it's a deformed nut...like many of us on this forum :stick .... And as mentioned, it only takes a few minutes to drop the unit...really not worth drilling and tapping a drain at the bottom IMHO.

bogthebasher
05-09-2009, 02:52 AM
Just thinking if one could find an RT that had been parted out it would be cool to play with drilling a hole and putting a self tapping insert in of a harder metal that the screw could be put into... I know, kind of crazy thought but then you could test the idea out a bit. :idea

cjack
05-09-2009, 03:17 AM
Might be ok to put a drain hole in the bottom for ease of change every 12K as is required now, but it is really a good idea to lube the splines once in awhile anyway. And it requires lowering the drive to do that.

31310
05-09-2009, 03:37 AM
I changed the final drive fluid last weekend at 30K kms last weekend, the fluid was darker than I expected; no silvery tinge and no metal particles on the speed sensor. The dealer changed it at 1000km about two years ago; was very surprised to find the splines were nearly dry. Cleaned it all and applied a healthy dose of PermaTex anti seize, same as on my '83 RT for all these years. Read Paul's article re driveshafts and offsetting the u-joints, would that apply to my '07 RT?

deilenberger
05-09-2009, 03:56 AM
I assume the one time feature of this nut is the result of some kind of locking feature in the nut. Is it a NYLOK nut or a deformed thread lock nut? If so, in either case could "blue locktite" be used as the locking feature if the original nut is reused.

I am not a cheapskate, just curious. I know, $10.00 plus tax will buy nearly a life time supply.:)It's what I've done. Didn't happen to have a new nut, plus even without the loctite (I use blue for most everything) - it still didn't thread easily on the bolt, so I suspect it still had self-locking properties. With blue on it - it's not going anywhere, and if it does - the paint dot I out on the thread/nut interface will show it.

roborider
05-09-2009, 04:23 AM
I was told by a "reliable authorized source" that locktite could be used with no issues. But since it was $1, I ordered one.

I would love to get ANY old final drive, just so I could tear it apart and look at all the components. I'm sure I can rebuild one in my shop if I have the specs and parts. I won't do it, but I'd love to tear one down.

bogthebasher
05-09-2009, 05:15 PM
I would love to get ANY old final drive, just so I could tear it apart and look at all the components. I'm sure I can rebuild one in my shop if I have the specs and parts. I won't do it, but I'd love to tear one down.

Wouldn't that make a great 'Tech Day' project? Just need to find one unfortunate soul who has had an incident that has rendered the chassis unrepairable.

My first Honda 90 lost an arguement with a farm forklift and became much flatter 35 years ago, so I know it can happen without anyone even riding it.

roborider
05-09-2009, 09:16 PM
It would be fun. If anyone has an old drive, I'll pay shipping to get it!

cjack
05-09-2009, 09:32 PM
I just read that the new specification for the new final drive fill is 200ml total or 180ml refill. To be done at 600mi and every 12K mi.
The old fill amount was thought to push oil out the seals when the drive heated up. And the debris from lack of oil changes was thought to cause premature wear.
The newest maintenance schedules show these updated recommendations.