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GeorgeBoyse
03-24-2009, 04:15 AM
I have a 2005 R1200RT and would like comments on using fully synthetic Mobil !, 20W-50 listed for air cooled V-twins.

rmeisen
03-24-2009, 11:13 AM
We haven't had one of these in a while...

George, It's your first post so I'm sure everyone will go easy on you
just kidding.. If you search the archive, you will find more than just a few spirited 'discussions' on oil, oil filters, the way to hold your mouth while discussing oil, oil filters, the proper etiquette for holding yoru pinky while sniffing oil, oil filters.. etc. etc. etc..

This is a really well discussed (and cussed) subject on this board..

and BTW, Welcome to MOA....

leadfoot
03-24-2009, 11:50 AM
Ohhhhhhh Nooooooooo!

Just kidding.

Welcome to the fold.

Well discussed subject, and you might save yourself a little time waiting for all the answers by using the search engine and plugging the topic in. You can read for awhile.

cjack
03-24-2009, 01:08 PM
I have a 2005 R1200RT and would like comments on using fully synthetic Mobil !, 20W-50 listed for air cooled V-twins.

http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=14550&highlight=synthetic+Mobil+20W-50

greenwald
03-24-2009, 01:32 PM
Welcome Aboard, George. Many friends can be made here, so enjoy the forum.

I echo the comments of the previous posts - much information (and mis-information) can be yours for the taking by simply researching this subject on previous posts. Be prepared to sit down awhile and do some lengthy and at times confusing reading.

I comment only because I have an identical mount ('05 R1200RT) and switched to synthetic oil (Amsoil) after 12,000 miles.

Turned out to be a good decision - bike seems quieter at start-up and during cruising (subjective opinion) and according to my computer's temp gauge, runs cooler (objective fact).

Won't get into a major tutorial on oil, but according to mechanics I trust, your engine suffers the most wear during the first 30 seconds of every start up, due to the potential for metal-on-metal contact. Synthetic lubricants do a better job of coating, disbursement and heat management than conventional 'dino' oil, and therefore offer superior wear protection.

Unless 100% synthetic (polyalphaolefin), many synthetic oils are blends (up to 30% synthetic) with refined crude, but still better than conventional. You decide which product to trust and use in your machine.

Interestingly, the process was a German invention, necessitated by Germany's lack of access to sufficient crude oil during WW II. Seems 'synthetic oil' and 'BMW's' were destined for each other!

Enjoy the R1200RT and safe riding.

osbornk
03-25-2009, 12:18 AM
Whether you use conventional or synthetic oil, if you keep it changed, you will never wear out the engine. If you insist on the "best", then synthetic may be for you.

PGlaves
03-25-2009, 01:29 AM
Whether you use conventional or synthetic oil, if you keep it changed, you will never wear out the engine. If you insist on the "best", then synthetic may be for you.

Voni almost has!

Do worn bores for the cam followers count?

Do Airhead rod bearings count?

Do rings count?

What does it mean to "wear out" an engine.

Are we talking George Washington's hatchet here?

DENNIE
03-25-2009, 02:31 AM
When the muffler bearings fall out of the framistat.

deilenberger
03-25-2009, 04:01 AM
When the muffler bearings fall out of the framistat.That only happens if you don't keep the brake light fluid topped up. Or use synthetic brake light fluid.

:dance

BeemerMike
03-25-2009, 12:21 PM
That only happens if you don't keep the brake light fluid topped up. Or use synthetic brake light fluid.

What grade and viscosity? Is Amsoil better than Mobil 1? Do I need to buy that expensive BMW synthetic brake light fluid? :lol

osbornk
03-25-2009, 01:07 PM
Voni almost has!

Do worn bores for the cam followers count?

Do Airhead rod bearings count?

Do rings count?

What does it mean to "wear out" an engine.

Are we talking George Washington's hatchet here?

I guess it depends on how many hundreds of thousands of miles you ride the bike. Keep the oil and filter clean and ride for many years. Almost everything you listed is due to dirty oil and/or abuse.

Polarbear
03-25-2009, 01:09 PM
I've got a "third of a million" miles on an "original" Airhead motor without synthetics in it:). Still runs like a champ. I use it to ride to work, 50 miles every other day or so! You spend the $money$ for engine syn's, not me:). Randy:thumb :usa

PGlaves
03-25-2009, 04:34 PM
I guess it depends on how many hundreds of thousands of miles you ride the bike. Keep the oil and filter clean and ride for many years. Almost everything you listed is due to dirty oil and/or abuse.

Yeah, we always run dirty oil and abuse our bikes. That's why Voni's R1100RS has 345K on it, and my K75 was at 370K when it died a premature death on our 49 state ride - run over by a mini van.

Wear happens. Oil slows the process down. Some oil is better than no oil. Good oil is better than crap oil. Correct viscosity and the correct level of anti-wear additives is critical. If it isn't API SG, 20w50 it doesn't go in our bikes.

rmeisen
03-25-2009, 04:58 PM
Wear happens. Oil slows the process down. Some oil is better than no oil. Good oil is better than crap oil. Correct viscosity and the correct level of anti-wear additives is critical. If it isn't API SG, 20w50 it doesn't go in our bikes.

George (original poster), That pretty much sums up every oil thread on the board so you just saved a Bunch of Reading...

Ron

mistercindy
03-25-2009, 07:45 PM
... my K75 was at 370K when it died a premature death on our 49 state ride - run over by a mini van.
A mini-van?!? If a long mileage K75 must die a violent death, then it ought to be at the hands of something like an old air-cooled Porsche 911, Mercedes Gull Wing, or a classic BMW 2002. But in the name of heaven, not a mini van. For shame.:cry Kind of like a fine old man, who deserves to die at the hands of a jealous husband. Or something like that...

cjack
03-26-2009, 12:27 AM
A mini-van?!? If a long mileage K75 must die a violent death, then it ought to be at the hands of something like an old air-cooled Porsche 911, Mercedes Gull Wing, or a classic BMW 2002. But in the name of heaven, not a mini van. For shame.:cry Kind of like a fine old man, who deserves to die at the hands of a jealous husband. Or something like that...

Maybe people who drive those other things don't routinely drive over motorcycles...

47512
03-26-2009, 12:46 AM
See my post in the oil weight thread.

Ken G.

ghostrider1964
04-01-2009, 09:24 PM
I have not converted to Synth yet but intend to at 12,000 miles. I like the idea of Mobil 1 from Walmart but our store does not carry the vtwin oil, clerk looked at me like I was from Mars...Anyone use Shaeffers? I know where I a can get Amsoil but I have several long trips planned and do not desire to tote oil with me, much easier to buy at say Walmart...With the dry clutch and separate gear box is their a problem with regular Mobil 1?:scratch

roborider
04-02-2009, 01:38 AM
Many, many riders use regular "auto" Mobile 1 without issues. It's great oil. Your owner's manual will list the minimum requirements for your oil and I'd fall over dead if Mobile 1 didn't meet the spec.

I like Mobile 1 V Twin since it is supposed to be made for higher operating temps. But I admit, there's no small placebo effect here. The motorcycle oil also has less Moly in it for wet clutches, so auto oil might even be better for the dry clutch BMW.

If you go to Mobile 1 website, they have a FAQ and there's a question that address Mobile 1 auto vs. Mobile 1 motorcycle.

But really, these oils are so much better than what we used in the 70s. You'll be fine.

Robo

cjack
04-02-2009, 01:44 AM
The motorcycle oil also has less Moly in it for wet clutches, so auto oil might even be better for the dry clutch BMW.
Robo

Hopefully no moly.

Polarbear
04-02-2009, 04:13 AM
Does anybody think they are going to make their motor last longer with synthetics? I personally don't think so. I've used both over the years and have no conclusive proof, one vs. the other, other than my own experience using both types of oil. My dino oils have done the same job, as I see it. No motors broken here, with "too many" miles to count:). The only advantage I could ever see, spending the dollars for syns is the change intervals could be much longer, say to 5000 or 7500 miles perhaps even 10000 mile changes. BUT, who does this, as folks I hear change it as often as us using conventional oils. Any logic here? If I could go 10000 miles on an oil change, it would(maybe) be worth the dollars spent for syns., imo.Randy

cjack
04-02-2009, 12:46 PM
There may be reasons which are based on function. For example, if your wet clutch-transmission seems a bit smoother with say 15W40, you might want to use a synthetic oil which may have a more stable viscosity with mileage. In addition, if you ride in the winter and prefer to start the bike and drive away without much warmup, you might want a synthetic oil which flows easier when very cold...colder than the temperature where the 10W or 15W is specified. Then too, those synthetic oils which have more anti-acids than dinos, might be a better choice for those riders who ride short runs, ride in the winter, and change the oil once a year or less. There are some real differences between dino and synth and although some of the differences are built into the oils by manufacturers considering a price point for their oil, they are there regardless.
So as you have observed, dino or synth may not have much to do with engine wear, as long as your oil useage and oil service habits are compatible with the oil you are using.

greenwald
04-02-2009, 01:34 PM
I have not converted to Synth yet but intend to at 12,000 miles. I like the idea of Mobil 1 from Walmart but our store does not carry the vtwin oil, clerk looked at me like I was from Mars...Anyone use Shaeffers? I know where I a can get Amsoil but I have several long trips planned and do not desire to tote oil with me, much easier to buy at say Walmart...With the dry clutch and separate gear box is their a problem with regular Mobil 1?:scratch

FYI - I can find Amsoil Synthetic Motorcycle Oil (20W50: $8-$9 / qt.) at the Fleet Farms or Farm & Fleets I have visited, if that helps your touring logistics.

Ride Safe.

osbornk
04-02-2009, 02:14 PM
Does anybody think they are going to make their motor last longer with synthetics? I personally don't think so. I've used both over the years and have no conclusive proof, one vs. the other, other than my own experience using both types of oil. My dino oils have done the same job, as I see it. No motors broken here, with "too many" miles to count:). The only advantage I could ever see, spending the dollars for syns is the change intervals could be much longer, say to 5000 or 7500 miles perhaps even 10000 mile changes. BUT, who does this, as folks I hear change it as often as us using conventional oils. Any logic here? If I could go 10000 miles on an oil change, it would(maybe) be worth the dollars spent for syns., imo.Randy

I agree with you but discussing the oil issue is the about the same as discussing abortion, politics or religion. People have made up their mind and logic or facts won't change minds regardless of which side of the issue someone is on.

I don't think extending the oil change interval with synthetic is wise. I change my oil because it gets dirty. Dirt doesn't care what kind of oil is in the crankcase. Dirty oil is dirty oil. Synthetic oil sellers try to convince people to buy synthetic because of the extended change intervals. They are pretty safe because most people change oil far more often than needed and people who will go to the expense of synthetic oil usually have well maintained and late model vehicles. Ford recommended oil changes every 10,000 miles in 1978. It was later changed to 7,500 and then 5,000 before it was readjusted to 7,500 in 2008. Nothing was changed except the recommendation. I think the shorter interval recommendation was simply to get the car back to the dealer more often so they could sell them other things they didn't need or a new car.

ghostrider1964
04-03-2009, 09:26 PM
Not sure how many of you ever go on ADVrider, but Hank has over 430,000 miles and uses regular Mobil 1. I do not make my primary living turning wrenches but I have to admit, motors tend to be cleaner and show less wear when ran with Synths... aneighbor of mine and I both bought ford F250s within a couple of months of each other...I overhauled his 460 at 230,000 miles engine was punched .030 over. I went into mine at 318,000 due to mine starting to use some oil...no significant cylinder wear..replaced rings and is still running(not sure the miles, I sold at close to 400,000). I have seen similiar results in both cars and bikes... not to mention usual increase in mileage which would suggest less friction...:dance

osbornk
04-04-2009, 12:12 AM
Not sure how many of you ever go on ADVrider, but Hank has over 430,000 miles and uses regular Mobil 1. I do not make my primary living turning wrenches but I have to admit, motors tend to be cleaner and show less wear when ran with Synths... aneighbor of mine and I both bought ford F250s within a couple of months of each other...I overhauled his 460 at 230,000 miles engine was punched .030 over. I went into mine at 318,000 due to mine starting to use some oil...no significant cylinder wear..replaced rings and is still running(not sure the miles, I sold at close to 400,000). I have seen similiar results in both cars and bikes... not to mention usual increase in mileage which would suggest less friction...:dance

How many of us have even tried to drive a vehicle that many miles? I sold my last two vehicles with between 170,000 and 180,000 miles on them because they were beginning to show wear on the interior and nicks on the exterior.. The engines were and still are strong with no increase in oil consumption (93 Buick still uses no oil and the 94 Tundra has always used one quart between changes). Both have over 200,000 miles on them now. I don't have enough years left to drive to wear out any of the 6 vehicles I own. This fellow didn't use synthetic http://millionmilevan.com/

dougnord
04-06-2009, 10:31 PM
OK,
First off, I don't claim to be an expert on this issue, but here's my two cents. On BMW's Authority Webpage they list a bulletin (#2912) dated 11/99 where BMW NA and the California Highway Patrol agreed to use synthetic oil only from 6,000 miles onward. The reasons given were the severe duty use these motorcycles are exposed to, CHP's desire to keep the motorcycles on a 6,000 mile service interval (one of the selling points of BMW compared to other makes) and the fact that these bikes (with cooling fans) idle on their side stands. The oil specified was BMW's 20W50 synthetic oil (or appropriate for ambient temperature).

I don't run my bike as hard as the CHP, but occasionally... So this is what I put in my 1150 RT for the first year. Until three years ago when I was on a 5K trip west and planning on topping up with a bottle of good 'ole BMW syn 20W50 from the dealer that didn't show up that year in Paonia. With BMW shops few and far between in some areas, and all of them closed on Sunday and Monday, after that trip it was Mobil 1 15W50. I can get that at nearly any Walmart. I do use the Mobil 1 4-T motorcycle oil for my ATV, but that's because Yamaha wants it that way.

So now I'm riding a new GS Adv., and Dino oil went in for the 600 mile service. BMW 75W-90 Super Syn in both the final drive and transmission (only because the M1 synthetic gear lubes commonly available are made for limited slip differentials and don't do well in our transmissions and final drives). I'll do the same at 3K although BMW doesn't call for a service at that interval, and then at 6K it will be back to full synthetics.

For me it's not so much a matter of cost, as I can get the M1 for less that $6.50 at Walmart. It's even cheaper when I can get it at Target. I do my own service and that more than offsets the additional cost of synthetics. Besides, I'd rather spend a little more now than a whole lot more later.

I know a lot of well respected people have stuck with the Dino oil, and I wouldn't argue with them. But many of them have also doubled up on their service
intervals. Maybe that's the answer, but go ahead and add the final drive and transmission to every service. Once my bike is broken in, however, I want to stick with a 6k service interval. And I just feel a little better with synthetic protecting my investment.
Doug

TGA57589
04-07-2009, 08:14 PM
I am so excited that someone else has asked about synthetic oil this time...I love the MOA!!!!!