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View Full Version : Temperature rising (K1100LT)



111865
04-23-2004, 01:07 PM
I picked up a 93 K1100LT on the 21st of this month and have put 200 miles on it. I seem to have a coolent problem of some sort that i cant seem to put my finger on. Crusing along at 70 and comming to a stop the temp light goes on and the temp gauge is sitting just short of the red mark. Fan is running, I can feel a warm breaze comming out of the flaring, coolent level is normal, all hoses are warm. once under speed again the temp falls back to normal and the temp light goes off.

the same thing happens if i am driving on the highway and enter a town that has speeds around 35 or less. the temp will rise and then go down again after i leave the town and pick up speed.

here is the kicker.... i can drive around the city all day and never have the temp rise.


This is happening when the temp out side is less then 50 (hasn't been warmer then that yet). Now next friday i leave for key west and it wont be 50 any more.

Do i have a problem or is this normal? If i do have a problem... what the heck is it?

Thanks in advance for your support

LICK MY BRICK
04-23-2004, 01:21 PM
hey SLY sounds kind of normal to me,my k1100rs runs hot. On the highway my temp gauge is in the middle and when I come into slower traffic I watch the temp gauge just about hit red mark on the temp gauge,and then the fan kicks in,then watch the needle go back to the middle.It will keep doing this until I speed up again getting the coolant flowing and air over the motor.however My temp light never comes on.

DARKCLOUD
04-23-2004, 02:21 PM
Check the anti freeze to see how strong it is and if it needs to be changed. If that isn't the problem, then the thermostat might be sticking. Next place to check would be for a clogged radiator.

I'd backflush the radiator, and put in a new thermostat and antifreeze. JON

kbasa
04-23-2004, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by Dark Cloud
Check the anti freeze to see how strong it is and if it needs to be changed. If that isn't the problem, then the thermostat might be sticking. Next place to check would be for a clogged radiator.

I'd backflush the radiator, and put in a new thermostat and antifreeze. JON

I'd probably do the same as JON. Without an idea of how long the coolant has been in there, I'd want to swap it out. Inspecting the thermostat wouldn't be bad idea either. You'll need a candy thermometer and a pan of water. I'm not sure what temperature the thermostat is supposed to open at. Does anyone know?

LICK MY BRICK
04-23-2004, 02:43 PM
thermostat should open at about 176-185 degrees

deilenberger
04-23-2004, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by KBasa
I'd probably do the same as JON. Without an idea of how long the coolant has been in there, I'd want to swap it out. Inspecting the thermostat wouldn't be bad idea either. You'll need a candy thermometer and a pan of water. I'm not sure what temperature the thermostat is supposed to open at. Does anyone know?

Starts to open at ~180F, not fully open until about 200F. 180F is just about center on the temperature gauge (did some extensive testing of this last year..)

The behavior the original poster is seeing is somewhat unusual.. but could be explained by either a slow thermostat or a gummed up radiator. It heats up after a good run 'cause the engine has more residual heat in it. Puttering around town - you don't generate as much heat so it doesn't heat up. Also - running lean will make the engine run hotter. If the bike has an O2 sensor might be time to think about changing it.

Oh - the antifreeze - you ideally want a 40/60% solution unless you live in Alaska (40% antifreeze) - that's about optimum for thermal transfer and reasonable freeze protection. Go higher than that and it doesn't transfer heat as well - meaning the engine will run hotter. Case of where more isn't better.

Best,

Gary99
04-24-2004, 07:18 AM
When running at highway speeds, then slowing down, or stopping, the motor enters a stage called "heatsoak" by engineers, and the temp will dramatically rise. My LT temp rises very quickly, even in town, if stopped at a red light for a few minutes, but the fans kick on and keep it out of the red. I would do the routine checks listed here, but as long as the fans keep the temp out of the red in town, I wouldn't worry about it.

111865
04-24-2004, 11:43 AM
Yesterday i put another 100 miles on it and paid very close attention to the temp gauge and lite.

from a cold start the temp rises to the middle of the dial. temp light off. drove 20 miles at 70 temp between middle and next mark. Stop at light temp rises to the 3/4 mark, fan on, temp falls between 1/2 and 3/4 then the temp light comes on. begin moving again and the temp rises (speed less then 50) temp light goes off and temp falls back to the middle. next stop light temp stays in the middle but the temp light came on. got back on the highway at 70 temp light between 1/2 and 3/4 and temp light went off in about a min. or so. rode about 5 miles got off the high way and enterd town. stop and go traffic temp light would come on and go off but temp never made it to the 3/4 mark, stayed between 1/2 and 3/4. drove around town for about an hour and still the temp gauge never made it to the 3/4 mark but the temp light would come on from time to time with the temp gauge very close to the 1/2 mark.

After reading responses here i believe that the thermostat is slow to respond and should be R&R .

So...... where is it?

Thank you for all your responses. will post the outcome of the thermostat changes as soon as i get one and get it replaced.

Thanks

LICK MY BRICK
04-24-2004, 02:25 PM
Gene I think the thermostat houseing is on bottom left hand side of the radiator if you were standing in front of the bike.I'm sure Don will respond to your question more thoroughly.

:D

basketcase
04-24-2004, 02:55 PM
Sly, I can't add anything technical to what as been said, but will make a general observation about getting acquainted with a bike.

Individual bikes all have a bit of variation in their performance -- resulting in what is sometimes called "personality." All of my bikes have had a discernable summer time personality, and a winter time personality.

It will take a full cycle of seasons before you have a take on all of it.

Next, a friend where I live recently bought a '94 L11LT that had sat up for a while. As he has put more miles on it, it has begun to run better and better, and the "kinks" are working out. I.e., the fuel guage has settled down, squeaks have stopped, etc. Meanwhile, we're swapping notes on our different K's. For example, my fuel guage "wobbles" constantly after it comes off of full, and always has. So wobbly is annoying, but normal.

Anyway, I think what you are seeing is the routine get acquainted curve. And the cure for that is ... TA-DA! You guessed it -- ride the daylights out of it! :D

But I would still make a point of changing the coolant ... nothing would ruin a day quicker than a fried engine, you know?

111865
04-25-2004, 01:34 AM
Well thanks to all the great input the problem is now solved. I went to flush the cooling system today and when i removed the thermstat very little collent came out. the raditor had to be about 1/4 full. Filled via the top hose input and now the temp doesnt go above the 1/2 mark!

Thank you very much for all the help.

deilenberger
04-25-2004, 07:20 PM
Originally posted by sly
Well thanks to all the great input the problem is now solved. I went to flush the cooling system today and when i removed the thermstat very little collent came out. the raditor had to be about 1/4 full. Filled via the top hose input and now the temp doesnt go above the 1/2 mark!

Thank you very much for all the help.

Sly - glad to hear this solved the immediate problem - now the question is - where did the missing coolant go?

I'd suggest checking the weep hole behind the water/oil pump to see if the pump seal has gone south, then look around all the hoses - check the clamps are tight and there isn't a buildup of white powder - if you see white powder - the hose has been leaking around the aluminum fittings. Get new hose - remove, clean fitting and reinstall.

And finally - I'd suggest getting a new cap, and a replacement hose for the hose to the overflow tank. The caps eventually plug up - sometimes open - sometimes closed (depends on what part of it plugs up) - and if the coolant hose has any cracks in it (and one older than about 6 years old does) - coolant is sent down the hose and never returned to the cooling system.

It's good when it's the simple things - but I would want to know where the coolant went.

Best,

111865
04-25-2004, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by deilenberger
Sly - glad to hear this solved the immediate problem - now the question is - where did the missing coolant go?





i was wondering the same thing. there was coolant in the over flow. i could find no leaks and i have refiled it with coolant and checked for leaks. The person i got it from said that they had to reassemble the bike before i could buy it. Maybe he was in a hurry and didnt fill it full or expected the any coolant needed would come from the reservoir. I dont have a clue.

It looks like i'll have to remove the tank to replace the hose and i will order a cap.

Thanks

111865
04-29-2004, 10:48 AM
I have now put over 1000 miles on trying to make sure this bike is ready for the trip to key west tomorrow. Last night after taking a break when i strated the bike coolant was weeping from a hole by the water pump. once i increaced the rpms the weeping stoped but when i reduced them again to an idle it weeped!

Driving down the road the tmp rose a little and the fan kicked in and temp stayed below the 1/2 way mark.

What was this and was it normal? i have about 30 hours to solve this problem.

thank you

basketcase
04-29-2004, 11:07 AM
The oil pump and water pump on the K operate off the same shaft. In other words, the shaft runs through the middle of a two-sided pump: one side of the pump handles the oil, and the other the coolant. What has happened is the seal is deterioating.

Before I purchased my 1995 K75, it had been parked (with only 1,150 miles on it) for over a year. And it started this routine at about 10,000 miles.

It was only a few drops of coolant, and the tech was not worried about it. But when I had it in for the 12K service, I had the seal replaced. (Keep in mind that because of the way the bike is built, it is also possible to get an oil drip from the same place).

The seal replacement is not that difficult a chore. If you are comfortable wrenching, you can do it yourself. And it is not expensive to have done at the dealership -- more time comsuming than anything else.

Now -- should you take the trip? When I finally get a chance to make a trip now and then, I hate like the dickens to cancel. So if it was me, I would call ahead and schedule the replacement (and parts availability) with the nearest dealer along the way, and then hit the road. But that's me.

If I remember correctly, it would hold you up for three or four hours -- most is which is spent allowing the engine to cool.

deilenberger
04-29-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by sly
I have now put over 1000 miles on trying to make sure this bike is ready for the trip to key west tomorrow. Last night after taking a break when i strated the bike coolant was weeping from a hole by the water pump. once i increaced the rpms the weeping stoped but when i reduced them again to an idle it weeped!

Driving down the road the tmp rose a little and the fan kicked in and temp stayed below the 1/2 way mark.

What was this and was it normal? i have about 30 hours to solve this problem.

thank you

Abby-normal. You now know where the coolant went. Since you mentioned it "weeping" - I'm assuming it isn't something like a drop every 10 minutes?

Your water pump seal is KAPUT. Most dealers will not rebuild the pumps - only replace them. Pump (which includes the engine oil pump) runs about $300. On an LT - labor will probably be several hours since there is a lot of fairing to get out of the way.

I noticed someone else mentioning rebuilding it yourself. Unless you are quite skilled mechanically, I wouldn't suggest it.

There is a new seal design out by BMW (the original one isn't available anymore) that increases the complexity of replacing the seals.. and a number of people have had to do it several times to get it correct - and these were people with lots of wrenching experience.

Getting it done in 36 hours? Kinda unlikely - the pump is sealed to the engine with a sealant that has a 24 hour cure time, so you can't even refill the coolant until 24 hours after you've finished replacing (or rebuilding) the pump.

Can you make the trip? Dunno. Without seeing how fast it's leaking hard to tell. The leak isn't going to get better - but it does have the potential to get worse. At a very minimum, I'd want to carry some premixed coolant with me, and stop every 200-300 miles and check the level at the radiator.

For more info on replacing/rebuilding the oil/water pump - I'd suggest visiting the IBMWR K-tech pages. There are several writeups on doing this job, and I think there is a link to installing the new design seal..

Best,

basketcase
04-29-2004, 03:13 PM
I know when I've been chided.

Actually, I've seen this more than once.

On the K I now ride, the seal was replaced under warranty at about 1,000 miles. While I am not the original owner, I've known this bike since it came off the showroom floor.

When the first owner discoverd the leak, he rode it in to Vinemont, let it cool, watched the tech work, and rode it home that afternoon. I know, because I went with him on the trip.

Now, if the tech procedure has changed and it cannot be done that way, so be it. But I do know what was done on that occasion.

Perhaps Sly's best move at this point is to get on the phone to several dealers and get a take on it, and then decide whether to delay his trip, or have it done on the road.

IMHO, and with regards,
Rick

111865
04-29-2004, 03:54 PM
New pump on order. This will delay the trip by 1 day but no more worries after the new pump is installed.

Thank you (again) :-)

DARKCLOUD
04-29-2004, 04:05 PM
Obviously the bike had the problem before you bought it. Did you get the bike from a dealer? JON

deilenberger
04-29-2004, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by sly
New pump on order. This will delay the trip by 1 day but no more worries after the new pump is installed.

Thank you (again) :-)

Great. I think that's one of the more important things - peace of mind when away from your home turf.. and a new pump will give you that - rebuilding it yourself? Well - I'd want a week or so on the bike before I'd declare it "fixed"

Best,

111865
05-14-2004, 05:48 PM
I again want to thank all of you for your help with this problem. I replaced the water/oil pump before we left. Only put us 5 hours off schedule. We rolled in to keywest only 2 hours later then i had planed months ago.

Again thanks!

cuervo
05-18-2004, 04:11 PM
Just some info about the pump for anyone facing this issue in the future:

To have the dealer rebuild the pump will be about $200-$250, much of which is labor. A new pump is $300-350 for the part and not as much labor. Removing/replacing the pump is easier than replacing the seals. The old seals are available for rebuilds.

My dealer had said the new pumps have been redesigned and are the same as the ones on the 1200s.