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TGA57589
11-12-2007, 09:23 PM
I for one am not impressed with the oil filter prices for my R1200RT. I have done some research on the issue and have come up with some information and would like to share more with other frugal R12 people. It seems the oriinal euipment short oil filter is a MANN MW-75 for which at this time is about $17-18 at the dealer. I have found that K&N makes a # 164 for about $14-15. I have been researching WIX and a few foreign car filter makers for an answer. I know this may sound like I'm cheap but this is ridiculous for what you have to pay for something that is such a small item. The only reasonable place I have found so far if I must get OEM is Beemer Boneyard. If anyone has any reasonable findings, please post them.

SUEME
11-13-2007, 01:51 PM
14$ Grassroots BMW Cape Girardeau Mo..

ANDYVH
11-14-2007, 01:43 AM
WIX makes good filters, as does Bosch, NAPA and others. There are good articles about filter choices on the net. Some people feel $18 for a filter from the dealer is reasonable given the bike they are riding and its cost at over $16 large ones.

Others, like me, feel $18 for a filter is too much. I've had no problems (126,000+ miles) on my 94 R1100RS while using Purolator PureOne filters or Bosch filters. I regularly pay $5 to $8 for my filters and can get them at any of the major auto supplies retailers while doing shopping for other goods. However, I will put any Fram products in my bike.

Your choice, your money.

GregoryT
11-14-2007, 02:27 AM
I'm sorry I don't have anything cheaper to offer, but I think if you spend about 18 bucks on an oil filter every 3 to 6,000 miles wouldn't put you in a poor-house. Consider that. You have a enough money to buy yourself a 18 to 22 grand motorcycle than spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to customize your ride. You are crying about an $18 oil filter?
You mentioned about different brands of oil filters, they are like everything else, you can buy them cheap, or you can buy OEM. But, the difference lies in quality.
Don't compare cheaply made automotive style pureolator filter to a BMW motorcycle filter. If you don't believe me, open up both of them and checkout what they are made of, and the quality of material. It would speak for itself.
Not to mention, that oil pressure check-valve, which is built into a filter itself is set up totally different. Happy hunting for bargains! I'll stay with my OEM filters.

-Gregory Turek

thtduck
11-14-2007, 03:18 AM
If I found an alternate filter on a parts shelf I would use it. Wouldn't go out of my way for an approx $10 - $15/year savings though. It's really a deal buying my BMW filter from the dealer because I get to see the new eye candy for free. :bikes

Every 6000 miles and doing the service myself the black BMW oil filter is not that much. Plus they tape the little crush washer to the box for free so I don't lose it.

kbasa
11-14-2007, 03:26 AM
Not to be too pointed, but when you spend $20K on a bike, how can you complain about $2 on a filter? :ha

The_Veg
11-14-2007, 03:29 AM
The cheepest part on a BMW is the rider.

TGA57589
11-15-2007, 04:52 PM
I plan to cut a stock filter open to see what the check valve looks like. I agree with the spending of 20-22k on a BMW an oil filter price shouldn't be a problem. What I do know is companies like WIX made almost all of NAPA's filters for quite a few years. The problem I see is Mann filters makes the filter for BMW and it seems quite hard to find a dealer who sells Mann in the US. I like to keep things on hand for sevice for my cars and the motorcycle so I just wanted to find if there was a good LIKE replacement. So I now see the best place to get my filters will be Beemer Boneyard since they offer the Mann filter which is what BMW uses as OEM. This filter stuff aint rocket science, the big deal IS the check valve and I haven't opened one up yet but I intend to.

Just fell off the turnip truck...

I have to laugh how it looks cheap to price shop, I worked with a guy who asked why I shopped at a discount store for some food items so, I asked him if he went to a name brand gas station for gas or if he went to a convenience store that was .10 a gallon cheaper than name brand? I was told to go &*%$ myself that I was being a wiseass?

bmwdean
11-15-2007, 08:31 PM
I'm sorry I don't have anything cheaper to offer, but I think if you spend about 18 bucks on an oil filter every 3 to 6,000 miles wouldn't put you in a poor-house. Consider that. You have a enough money to buy yourself a 18 to 22 grand motorcycle than spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars to customize your ride. You are crying about an $18 oil filter?
-Gregory Turek

What he said.

I remember one post years back when someone complained that a crush washer cost 50 cents. Huh? Sheesh, with inflation that could be 60 cents now!


The cheepest part on a BMW is the rider.

What he said.

The_Veg
11-16-2007, 02:43 AM
And maybe after spending $18-22K on a bike, these guys are now broke.

DARKCLOUD
11-16-2007, 02:54 AM
I plan to cut a stock filter open to see what the check valve looks like. I agree with the spending of 20-22k on a BMW an oil filter price shouldn't be a problem. What I do know is companies like WIX made almost all of NAPA's filters for quite a few years. The problem I see is Mann filters makes the filter for BMW and it seems quite hard to find a dealer who sells Mann in the US. I like to keep things on hand for sevice for my cars and the motorcycle so I just wanted to find if there was a good LIKE replacement. So I now see the best place to get my filters will be Beemer Boneyard since they offer the Mann filter which is what BMW uses as OEM. This filter stuff aint rocket science, the big deal IS the check valve and I haven't opened one up yet but I intend to.

Just fell off the turnip truck...

I have to laugh how it looks cheap to price shop, I worked with a guy who asked why I shopped at a discount store for some food items so, I asked him if he went to a name brand gas station for gas or if he went to a convenience store that was .10 a gallon cheaper than name brand? I was told to go &*%$ myself that I was being a wiseass?

I have several aftermarket BMW filters, including the correct Fram filter the 6063. If you'd be interested in disassembling the filters and posting pictures let me know.

JON

jimvonbaden
11-16-2007, 03:51 PM
Just an FYI, the stock and aftermarket alternative filters from the R1100/1150 will fit and work. There are many who use them, and some as cheap as $5 each or less.

I wont attest to their complete suitability, but hundreds of thousands of miles have been done on them.

Here is the list I have:

Oil filters:
FRAM is the correct FRAM but hard to find at WallyWorld. PH6063
FRAM is readily available and works PH3614
AC DELCO PF-53
NAPA 1348
Mobil-1 M1-102
BMW 11.42-1 460 843 or 845
Mahle/knecht/microstar/tecafiltre (original part) OC91
Champion (of motorcycle range) C301
Purflux LS188B
Tech9 (France only, made by Mahle in fact) n??16
Hiflofiltro (from Thailand) HF-163
Mann-Hummel MW712
Detlev Louis (Germany) 10050195
Toyota 08922-02004 or 90915-YZZB9
Perf-form (on www.perf-form.com)
BMW-1
UFI makes one too (italian)
Donit (www-motobins.co.uk) 43 10 133
For After May, '97, 1100RT
Purolator P/N11421460845
AMSOIL SMF122
Bosch 3330
WalMart ST3614
Purolator L00241
AC PF53


Jim :brow

TGA57589
11-18-2007, 01:29 AM
Okay, so now we have come to the conclusion I am broke and can't afford a BMW oil filter for my $20k RT. Well fact of the matter is...I buy gas at convenience store not knowing who refines it...Why do you ask? Because it is a bit cheaper than the Name Brand stations...Does this ring a bell? I was thinking for a while that this was pretty cool how guys will come to each other's aide by revealing info how we did this or that with our BMW machines. I'm really fine with the posting of some that only believe the BMW store know's the true answer for any BMW related issue.

I have a confession to make too, I take my tire changes to a guy locally that does 99% all Harley work but, he charges me $20 to mount and balance MY tire bought elsewhere. So, why do I go look around for a deal? I paid $256 for my 600mi. service for my new RT which included an oil change and rear end gear change. What me shop around for a deal for anything?

I make fun of this because I loved my '96 RT and love my '2007 even more by the day but I do have my spending limits and I am Pennsylvania Dutch which, for those of you that don't know what that is I'll explain..CHEAP!

The_Veg
11-19-2007, 04:51 PM
FWIW TGA, I'm with you here- my comment about brokeness was merely an attempt at humour.

And I'm not of the opinion that something with the BMW name on it is the be-all, end-all of engineering. BMW do not make oil filters, and oil filters are not designed specifically for any particular engine. Just like bearings and seals, oil filters are designed to various specifications and enough different specs are available that an engine designer can easily pick one out that will work well with the engine.
While you can't go wrong using the BMW filter, the idea that you can't go right using anything else is pure lunacy, and the passionate statements of such preferences I read here whenever such topics arise strike me as pure snobbery.

But the rub is that nobody seems to know for sure EXACTLY which other-brand filters are compatible.
I'd bet dollars to drain-plugs that anything that physically fits will do the job of filtering well within specs, but that leaves the matter of bypass-pressure. In the name of science, as soon as my bike needs an oil-change I will dissect the old filter and see what I can learn about the bypass valve. I also then will purchase some physically compatible filters and see if I can determine whether or not their bypass valves are made to similar specs to the BMW-branded item. I'd wager that at least one of them is.
Here's where I need a suggestion: Assuming that the bypass valves use springs to do their thing, what's the best way to measure the force of a spring? I'm envisioning putting the spring on a scale and taking the reading with the spring compressed to a certain measurement. Anybody got a better idea?

PGlaves
11-19-2007, 05:21 PM
I love questions for which there is no single answer.

I can say with assurance that the BMW OEM filters are reasonable quality and do the job. I can also say with absolute confidence that some of the filters you can buy which will screw on correctly are complete crap and inadequate.

The big problem is making a sound decision about which aftermarket filter is as good as the BMW filter and which ones are not. I have recently read that Wix, Purolator, Mann, and at least two other manufacturers I forget are the ones that really make the BMW filters. I suspect this changes over time as BMW changes suppliers, and maybe is different for different filter types. I don't claim to know.

I have seen some "tests" which are really observations about various filters on the Internet Some of these pages seem reasonable. Some scream bias and self interest so loudly I want to turn my computer off, cancel my DSL, and read fiction books.

I have been using Bosch filters lately on our Oilheads. I still use the unpainted OEM filters in our K75s because I haven't figured out how well the paint fares buried in the oil sump.

I've got some OEM and old Purolator Airhead filters. Haven't found a good substitute for the OEM one for our F650s. (I know I should scour the Chaingang site - somebody has, I've sure).

Spec's are tricky. Given the closed end down orientation of the filters on Oilhead, Hexhead, and traditional K bike filters the anti-drainback valve feature isn't critical, but the bypass pressure relief valve pressure is. And of course the filtering media is, as well as overall construction to prevent collapse of the media.

While I adhere to neither the "only OEM" nor the "big bucks is better" philosophies, one thing I have learned in life is "real cheap is probably real cheap."

PGlaves
11-19-2007, 05:26 PM
Here's where I need a suggestion: Assuming that the bypass valves use springs to do their thing, what's the best way to measure the force of a spring? I'm envisioning putting the spring on a scale and taking the reading with the spring compressed to a certain measurement. Anybody got a better idea?

Measuring the spring only works if the "valve" (probably a ball) obstructs an orifice of the same size. You are looking at a pressure at which it releases which is a composite of both the spring linear tension and the area of the orifice blocked.

deilenberger
11-19-2007, 10:07 PM
I'd also comment on The_Veg's comment - that BMW doesn't make oil filters.

True - they don't - but they have been know to work with manufacturers of parts used on their engines and come up with unique designs.. the oil filters appear to be one of these designs since while you'll find other filter manufacturer's doing a cross-reference and telling you they have one that fits - in the case of Purolator and I believe Fram - the one they tell you to use is ONLY spec'd for BMW bikes.. and is made in Europe.

The people telling you to use some automotive filter on your bike are likely making assumptions based on size/thread/whatever that close is good enough. I would argue that close isn't good enough, or BMW would have used an off-the-shelf filter. I've never seen one of these recommendations that went much beyond "Well - it screwed on OK, and the bike hasn't blown up.." (yet..)

Until someone can provide me with proof that the automotive filter they're suggesting to use meets all the flow requirements, bypass pressure, particle capture size and built quality of the BMW filter - I'll continue my wastrel ways and pay BMW for filters. Sometimes being a spendthrift results in saving $$$. And if your bike is under warranty, and you have engine problems - use of an automotive filter would give BMW excellent and justifiable grounds to deny you warranty coverage.

YMMV - and it gets close to a religious thing - but for sure BMW filters are compatible with the engines they're made for - can't say that for certain on the automotive filters people have advocated using.

FredRydr
11-19-2007, 10:13 PM
While you can't go wrong using the BMW filter, the idea that you can't go right using anything else is pure lunacy, and the passionate statements of such preferences I read here whenever such topics arise strike me as pure snobbery.No, just practicality. The BMW dealer is 5 miles away, I get a discount, the part will be up to spec, and if anything is amiss it'll be BMW and the dealer who has to make amends. It's lunacy to waste time and fuel running all over the place to save two bucks. Wal-Mart is further than the dealer, anyway.

Show how to save hundreds or thousands on parts and then you'll get my attention. How about testing an aftermarket rear, instead?

Fred
'07 R1200R

burnszilla
11-19-2007, 10:23 PM
I bought 5 filters online at Chicago BMW and got 20% off and no tax.
PN Description Qty UnitCost Extended Cost
11427673541 OIL FILTER S 5 $12.08 $60.40
SubTotal $60.40
Tax $0.00
Total before Handling $60.40
Handling $handling
Total with Handling $68.15 = $13.63 per oil filter.

The_Veg
11-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Great points guys. I was firing from the hip so to speak, although I still don't see the 'religious' value that often gets brought into these debates.

I do still think though that finding substitutes is a worthwhile project (although not an urgent one). Let's say your filter (exposed on the bottom of the bike) gets damaged someplace hundreds of miles from the nearest Temple Of BMW...

And on a purely humourous note, I'd like to know how many oil-changes Burnzy did before Chi-BMW actually shipped his filters, based on my experiences with those guys. :laugh

burnszilla
11-20-2007, 10:20 PM
Great points guys. I was firing from the hip so to speak, although I still don't see the 'religious' value that often gets brought into these debates.

I do still think though that finding substitutes is a worthwhile project (although not an urgent one). Let's say your filter (exposed on the bottom of the bike) gets damaged someplace hundreds of miles from the nearest Temple Of BMW...

And on a purely humourous note, I'd like to know how many oil-changes Burnzy did before Chi-BMW actually shipped his filters, based on my experiences with those guys. :laugh
Funny. I'm still waiting for them but I have 2000 miles until my next oil change.:)

GregoryT
11-22-2007, 01:05 AM
What he said.

I remember one post years back when someone complained that a crush washer cost 50 cents. Huh? Sheesh, with inflation that could be 60 cents now!



What he said.

Those are the prices at Ride West BMW.

R1200R Oil Filter - $15.79.
Crush Washer - ?รณ49 - Hoorah! It's not that bad.

I don't know if it's true, but apparently, if your motorcycle is still under warranty, you can't use anything but OEM filters, recommended for a specific model-year.
If you do, you are going to loose your warranty.

TGA57589
11-22-2007, 03:15 AM
Hey wait til you hear this one...I ordered an extra key for my R1200RT since they give you one metal key and one plastic I figured why not right? $49 bucks at dealer cost since it listed for $60 for a key!!

I think after that deal I will be taking our turkey back and getting two cans of spam for Thanksgiving.

apopj
11-22-2007, 08:09 PM
Hi all,

Just bought a case of BMW oil and one filter for my '07 'GS..... guess I am "cheap" 'cuz the thought that I just paid $78 for them struck me as assinine. Perhaps I did spend $18K for my motor, but that doesn't mean I will continue to pay outlandish prices to not be called "cheap". How many of the guys that say I only buy genuine filters, damn the price turn around and buy mobil One oil or some other brand? BMW does not make filter, nor oil. I would think that if the oil meets the standards, it will work. I change my oil at 3000 miles and $60 bucks for an oil change I do myself is crazy. So, guess I am cheap, but it gives me more money for gas to ride......

Jeff:violin

deilenberger
11-22-2007, 08:50 PM
Hi all,

Just bought a case of BMW oil and one filter for my '07 'GS..... guess I am "cheap" 'cuz the thought that I just paid $78 for them struck me as assinine. Perhaps I did spend $18K for my motor, but that doesn't mean I will continue to pay outlandish prices to not be called "cheap". How many of the guys that say I only buy genuine filters, damn the price turn around and buy mobil One oil or some other brand? BMW does not make filter, nor oil. I would think that if the oil meets the standards, it will work. I change my oil at 3000 miles and $60 bucks for an oil change I do myself is crazy. So, guess I am cheap, but it gives me more money for gas to ride......

Jeff:violinJeff,

I'm trying to understand your logic here..

BMW doesn't make oil. Correct - the specify the characteristics of the oil, and if any oil meets the specifications it's fine to use.

BMW doesn't make filters. Correct again - and again - they have specified the characteristics of their filters. Do you know of an aftermarket one that is less expensive to buy that meets their specifications? Figure I'll look a bit..

I just went through the Purlolator, Fram, Hastings, Wix and AC-Delco websites.. nada. Zilch. No listings for the R1200 engines. AC-Delco did have one for the R1150R 2003 engine, but that was it..

K&N lists one - KN-164 - but no price for it that I can find. Looks like it will be a reasonable choice: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=KN-164 - but what's the price? Less/more than BMW's?

Here is an interesting webpage:
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml

And take a look at the BMW filter:
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/bmw.shtml
Then a K&N (not spec'd for BMW):
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/kandn.shtml
And someone elses.. like Fram:
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/fram.shtml

Dunno about you - but I know what I'd want filtering my oil. Have to see what the price of the K&N KN-164 is..

Found it: http://www.4filters.com/Oil-Filter-OIL-FILTER-POWERSPORTS_p_0-6476.html - $15.00 + shipping. OrL http://www.amotostuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=AML&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KN-164 - $13.50 + shipping, or finally on Ebay - http://search.express.ebay.com/Vehicle-Parts-Accessories_Motorcycle-Parts-Accessories_?_from=R40&_trksid=m51&_nkw=KN-164&_nd1= $13.00 + $5.00 shipping.

Doesn't seem like a big savings over buying them from a dealer, or if you're patient from Chicago BMW.. If you really want to save $$$ - you might consider doing 6,000 mile oil changes AS RECOMMENDED by BMW - and save yourself $60 or so.. (and if you're worried about the oil - spend $25 and have an oil analysis done at 3,000 miles..) unless you're only riding 3,000 miles a year and then I guess you're stuck with the 3,000 mile annual oil change.

Please 'splain what you're trying to achieve here..

dbrick
11-22-2007, 09:29 PM
I don't know if it's true, but apparently, if your motorcycle is still under warranty, you can't use anything but OEM filters, recommended for a specific model-year.
If you do, you are going to loose your warranty.

Nope. Magnusson-Moss does not permit a vehicle manufacturer to require that only its proprietary parts and supplies be used, only that OEM-equivalent ones be used. The problem, of course, that anything non-BMW gives BMW at least arguing room that the non-standard part caused the problem. For that reason, many use BMW parts during the warranty period.

apopj
11-23-2007, 12:32 AM
Hi Don,

The logic I was trying to show was many riders say they won't use anything but genuine BMW filters cause its the best, but then will put any old oil in to be filtered. It would seem, as was mentioned, that as long as the unit meets the specs, it should be okay to use. I know that the mechanics say that the "relief valve" is critical, or the "cooling effect" of the filter is important, or it will void the warranty if not BMW and so on. But, most of us drive auto's (very infrequently) that cost more than our Beemers, but we don't mandate the use of Motorcraft or Autolite filters, even though they are spec'd by the manufacturer's. If we talk about how much our bikes cost, then it is a cost thing and the logical conclusion would be to use only manufacturer spec'd filters, oil, tires, and so on. I agree, the BMW parts are good, but like I said, $60 for a home done oil change really seems steep to me.... but then, I thought I was wrong once before....

Jeff:thumb

FredRydr
11-23-2007, 03:33 AM
Magnusson-Moss ....That only applies to Americans.

Fred
'07 R1200R

deilenberger
11-23-2007, 05:28 AM
Hi Jeff!


Hi Don,

The logic I was trying to show was many riders say they won't use anything but genuine BMW filters cause its the best, but then will put any old oil in to be filtered. It would seem, as was mentioned, that as long as the unit meets the specs, it should be okay to use. I know that the mechanics say that the "relief valve" is critical, or the "cooling effect" of the filter is important, or it will void the warranty if not BMW and so on. But, most of us drive auto's (very infrequently) that cost more than our Beemers, but we don't mandate the use of Motorcraft or Autolite filters, even though they are spec'd by the manufacturer's.
:) Actually - I drive BMW cars also, and only use BMW specified oil (in my M3 - Castrol 10W-60 synthetic from Germany, in my 525i - BMW labeled 5W-30) and BMW filters. I had bad experiences with aftermarket filters - where they basically were bypassed due to crappy construction, so.. given the cost of the car, I stick with BMW products. Funny thing is - the BMW parts are generally no more expensive than aftermarket stuff if I get the BMW-Car Club of America discount most car dealers give for belonging to the club (10-20%).
If we talk about how much our bikes cost, then it is a cost thing and the logical conclusion would be to use only manufacturer spec'd filters, oil, tires, and so on. I agree, the BMW parts are good, but like I said, $60 for a home done oil change really seems steep to me.... but then, I thought I was wrong once before....

Jeff:thumbAs far as the cost - given the overall cost of owning a BMW bike - $60 every 6,000 miles is pretty much down in the noise for me. I'll need two oil changes a year (at 6,000 miles per change). One day/night on the road costs more than that now. Over the time I'll own the bike (I average 5 years) - we're talking about $600. Small change since the bike depreciated $3,000 the minute it rolled out of the showroom.. and especially small change if the bike remains reliable. That's especially true if you consider how little of that I could save by using aftermarket parts and oil.

I'd really suggest it worthwhile to have at least one oil analysis done to see if your current oil change schedule is realistic. Blackstone Labs is one of my favorites - they provide a detailed analysis and advice for a nominal charge - about 1/2 of what you spend for one oil change. You can request a free test kit - and then send it back in for the analyis. I think it might give you confidence to extend your change interval to the BMW recommended 6,000 mile one..

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Best - and rubber side down!

TGA57589
11-24-2007, 04:42 PM
I'm sort of looking toward using Mobil-1 15w50 once the break in period is through. I can't seem to think that even buying spectro (the maker of BMW oil) would be worth the money. Any other logic to this? I will be buying the MW-75 Mann oil filters from BeemerBoneyard since they are the maker of the BMW oem. I found they have a 4 pack for $49.00 plus shipping.

GregoryT
11-25-2007, 04:16 AM
TGA57589, it's worth knowing that there is no, one motorcycle or auto company making everything entirely by themselves.
Bear in mind, however that parts and accesories made for BMW motorcycles must meet very specific and high-standard requirements.
In other words, for example, oil filters must meet different criteria for BMW motorcycles than their generic siblings rated for universal use.
Same goes to oil. Golden Spectro (for North America) supplies oil for BMW motorcycles. But, the content of additives and chemical balance required by BMW is totally different from what you buy for general motorcycle use. It's not as simple as it looks. And once again, it brings the questions if few dollars difference in price is worth messing with.

deilenberger
11-26-2007, 01:48 AM
Datapoint:

Bought a hexhead oil filter yesterday at local friendly dealers open-house. 10% discount = $14.44. Also bought 4 quarts of 15W-50 synthetic - $9.77/quart, and one quart of 75W-140 tranmission oil, $14.87. Crush ring - $0.84.

deilenberger
11-26-2007, 02:00 AM
I'm sort of looking toward using Mobil-1 15w50 once the break in period is through. I can't seem to think that even buying spectro (the maker of BMW oil) would be worth the money. Any other logic to this? I will be buying the MW-75 Mann oil filters from BeemerBoneyard since they are the maker of the BMW oem. I found they have a 4 pack for $49.00 plus shipping.While I have nothing but respect for Mike at BeemerBoneyard - and while MANN is sometimes a manufacturer of BMW filters (they are not the ONLY manufacturer BMW uses..) - do you have a listing that specifically says this MANN filter is spec'd for the hexhead?

I couldn't find any motorcycle listings at their US website: http://www.mann-hummel.com/mf_prodkata_usa/index.html?ktlg_page=11&ktlg_lang=1

At $49.00 + shipping, not a big saving over what I paid $14.44 (x4) = $57.76 (no shipping charge), or not counting shipping - $2.19 per filter?

BTW - Chicago BMW sells at 20% off list - which would make the filters $13.60 each vs $12.25 for the Mann filter. It doesn't seem the savings is significant to me.. but I guess some people are on a lot tighter budget than I am.

wozerd
02-07-2008, 11:01 PM
TGA57589, it's worth knowing that there is no, one motorcycle or auto company making everything entirely by themselves.
Bear in mind, however that parts and accesories made for BMW motorcycles must meet very specific and high-standard requirements.
In other words, for example, oil filters must meet different criteria for BMW motorcycles than their generic siblings rated for universal use.
Same goes to oil. Golden Spectro (for North America) supplies oil for BMW motorcycles. But, the content of additives and chemical balance required by BMW is totally different from what you buy for general motorcycle use. It's not as simple as it looks. And once again, it brings the questions if few dollars difference in price is worth messing with.
__________________________________________________ ___

Ok, I think I have read all the entries here before tossing in my 49 cents. Having worked for a BMW auto dealer, as well as Toyota, GM, Ford and Hyundai, I will tell you this. EVERY manufacturer buys at what they consider to be an "optimum" price when weighed against quailty. That quality is derived by lab testing and field testing. If a product passes the lab test and is the cheapest to purchase, that's the supplier that gets used. If, once in the field, the product begins failing-- they switch suppliers. I can name numerous times a product has passed the lab test but failed the field test. Keep in mind, passing the lab test means, a failure rate that is below a certain percent of the tested components. Delphi (Delco) alternaters on Toyota Corollas for example. Failed at the 10-20K mileage at a rate so predictable that Toyota dropped them and instructed dealers to replace all Delphi alternaters, when they failed, with Denso units-- and, extended the warranty replacement period on the Delphi alternater. Ditto BMW window regulators, light bulbs and probably a few other items.
I am not looking for cheaper-- I am looking for better than "optimum" performance. If I wanted only "optimum" I wouldn't spend the extra money on synthetic oil. Or drive 100 miles round trip to buy what I thnk (and some authority claims) is the best gear oil. Everyone knows that, generally, BMW parts cost more simply because they say BMW. Ditto other brands. That doesn't make them "the best, it simply makes them-- "not the worst"
Living in Dayton, Ohio we do not have a BMW motorcycle dealer. Cincinnati's dealer went out of business. That leaves a 140 mile trip to Columbus or, the internet. So, besides wanting the very best oil filter, I also want one I can buy without waiting 7-10 days, paying shipping cost or driving 140 miles.
I read the Cal-SCI test and his opinion on Pure ONE oil filters. I went to the Purolator website and they list a filter number ML16825. The Cal Sci guy says it's part number PL25230. Is one their regular filter and the other the Pure One filter??
I noticed that Purolator is now considered to be a joint venture between
Mann-Hummel and Bosch.
I checked at the local Auto Zone and they can get me one the next day. But, they want $16.95. Same price as the BMW filter (by the way, went with a friend to a Harley dealer-- he bought an oil filter-- OEM with the Harley Logo on it, for $13.95 plus tax-- and IT WAS CHROME!!).
So, now I am not sure which Purolator oil filter to get for my '04 R1150RT. I don't want the cheapest, I want the best. I want to use the Pure One filter. Does anyone here use the Pure One? And, if so, what part number?

thanks!

Polarbear
02-07-2008, 11:36 PM
I just bought a new GSA at 22000$ and I have limits, where I ask questions. Just because I paid a premium for a bike, does this mean I have to walk straight into a raw deal, regarding service parts, etcetc.. Research is a good thing and I love reading what folks find out in these posts. I know one thing, the Euro$ is killing the US$ and one might consider buying some of these filters, etc. in bulk, because they will go UP! I feel the filter deal at the prices they are getting is a sign of things coming and its not going to get any cheaper, unless we simply don't buy anymore. Filters for 15-20$ is an insult, but what else in your life has changed? Milk is twice and three times as much, butter,cheese and numerous other tidbits in our lives are two and three times as much as in just "recent" years. How about your health insurance$$$???. I am on the edge with my dollars and stretching them is the only way. I just bought a pricey new BMW, but I've been riding them for 30+ years. I'll tell you, this is probably my last new one! I cannot afford new anymore, after this and retire. The oil filters go 6000 miles, according to some dealers, changing oil every 3000 still. I've heard this countless times, so is it true all over? This is a savings indeed and takes some of the pain away from a 20$ filter:). I did this most recently with my K1200LT, every 6000 miles on the filter and oil at 3000. The mini R filter on the '07 is half the size! Seems 6000 miles may be too long? Randy13233

markgoodrich
02-08-2008, 01:32 AM
__________________________________________________ ___

Ok, I think I have read all the entries here before tossing in my 49 cents. Having worked for a BMW auto dealer, as well as Toyota, GM, Ford and Hyundai, I will tell you this. EVERY manufacturer buys at what they consider to be an "optimum" price when weighed against quailty. That quality is derived by lab testing and field testing. If a product passes the lab test and is the cheapest to purchase, that's the supplier that gets used. If, once in the field, the product begins failing-- they switch suppliers. I can name numerous times a product has passed the lab test but failed the field test. Keep in mind, passing the lab test means, a failure rate that is below a certain percent of the tested components. Delphi (Delco) alternaters on Toyota Corollas for example. Failed at the 10-20K mileage at a rate so predictable that Toyota dropped them and instructed dealers to replace all Delphi alternaters, when they failed, with Denso units-- and, extended the warranty replacement period on the Delphi alternater. Ditto BMW window regulators, light bulbs and probably a few other items.
I am not looking for cheaper-- I am looking for better than "optimum" performance. If I wanted only "optimum" I wouldn't spend the extra money on synthetic oil. Or drive 100 miles round trip to buy what I thnk (and some authority claims) is the best gear oil. Everyone knows that, generally, BMW parts cost more simply because they say BMW. Ditto other brands. That doesn't make them "the best, it simply makes them-- "not the worst"
Living in Dayton, Ohio we do not have a BMW motorcycle dealer. Cincinnati's dealer went out of business. That leaves a 140 mile trip to Columbus or, the internet. So, besides wanting the very best oil filter, I also want one I can buy without waiting 7-10 days, paying shipping cost or driving 140 miles.
I read the Cal-SCI test and his opinion on Pure ONE oil filters. I went to the Purolator website and they list a filter number ML16825. The Cal Sci guy says it's part number PL25230. Is one their regular filter and the other the Pure One filter??
I noticed that Purolator is now considered to be a joint venture between
Mann-Hummel and Bosch.
I checked at the local Auto Zone and they can get me one the next day. But, they want $16.95. Same price as the BMW filter (by the way, went with a friend to a Harley dealer-- he bought an oil filter-- OEM with the Harley Logo on it, for $13.95 plus tax-- and IT WAS CHROME!!).
So, now I am not sure which Purolator oil filter to get for my '04 R1150RT. I don't want the cheapest, I want the best. I want to use the Pure One filter. Does anyone here use the Pure One? And, if so, what part number?

thanks!

The PL25230 is on sale at Amazon right now, two for $11.99. The photo of the filter clearly shows it is the Pure One filter. I ordered a pair for my R1200RT, added a book, get free shipping. I am relying on CalSci's comment that it fits and works.

Here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7XJPE

cjack
02-08-2008, 03:46 AM
__________________________________________________ ___

Living in Dayton, Ohio we do not have a BMW motorcycle dealer. Cincinnati's dealer went out of business. That leaves a 140 mile trip to Columbus or, the internet. So, besides wanting the very best oil filter, I also want one I can buy without waiting 7-10 days, paying shipping cost or driving 140 miles.


I'm not going to say that you need to support your local dealer and buy his oil filters. But just that being a BMW dealer is not an easy business in spite of the cost of the parts, labor, and of course the bikes. I don't think the dealer or BMW is overcharging for oil filters. And as far as quality, I don't think I ever heard of any problems with the oem filter. So I think it is safe to say that they are not the worst. The market is small, and naturally one should expect the dealer to carry oem oil filters. So the price is high compared to what WalMart gets for the millions of Fram filters that they sell. Big surprise.
For the two bikes we ride on trips, I change the oil every 6K miles...maybe twice a year each. Something like $68/year for oil filters from the local dealer. It's just not worth the sweat to beat this into the ground looking for 5 dollar filters.

wozerd
02-08-2008, 02:13 PM
The PL25230 is on sale at Amazon right now, two for $11.99. The photo of the filter clearly shows it is the Pure One filter. I ordered a pair for my R1200RT, added a book, get free shipping. I am relying on CalSci's comment that it fits and works.

Here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H7XJPE

Thanks-- I did some more research-- the PL10241 is the shorter of the two-- I want as much filtration as I can get-- is the length an issue? I'm not going off roading (hopefully-- at least not on purpose) anytime soon, so--- if it's not a big deal, I'm getting the longer one.
I am calling my local Advance Auto today to see what they will quote me.
But, even $11.99 for two, plus shipping (or buy two for the car and 4 for the bike) is cheaper than the $16.95 they originally quoted me when the clerk looked it up.

A book store for motorcycle oil filters........... what's the world coming to!!:laugh

note added.

$5.88 each for the PL10241. The PL25230 is $8.68.
Relying on others opinions (Toby Creek, CALSCI) it appears I can purchase a superior product for 1/3 to 1/2 the price of my local (HA!! 70 miles away) dealer. Even if the price was the same, or slightly higher, I would still buy the superior product. And this from a staunch O.E. guy!!!

What IS the world coming to??

mewaybright
02-08-2008, 02:29 PM
Not to be too pointed, but when you spend $20K on a bike, how can you complain about $2 on a filter? :ha

So by that thought pattern it is ok to pay 3 or 4 hundred 3 times a year for servicing on the bike because you dropped 18k on the thing new... hmmm how much did your car cost and where do get it serviced and do you always buy the most expensive parts you can find? Remember most expensive does not equal best quality.

mewaybright
02-08-2008, 02:40 PM
While I adhere to neither the "only OEM" nor the "big bucks is better" philosophies, one thing I have learned in life is "real cheap is probably real cheap."

One thing about manufacturing and retail is some make profit via quantity and some make profit via price... dealers are in the price category.

thtduck
02-08-2008, 03:15 PM
Personally don't have the time to worry about the filter cost. Do my own services and wheel changes because I like to, saving big is nice too. Buying the OEM filter just reduces my savings margin very slightly. Appreciate all the research that has been done but I'll just continue use the little black BMW filter. Those that don't live close to a BMW dealer, sounds like a good excuse for a ride!:bolt

kbasa
02-08-2008, 05:10 PM
So by that thought pattern it is ok to pay 3 or 4 hundred 3 times a year for servicing on the bike because you dropped 18k on the thing new... hmmm how much did your car cost and where do get it serviced and do you always buy the most expensive parts you can find? Remember most expensive does not equal best quality.

We're talking about the price of a cup of coffee here, not something that you need to drain your retirement account to buy.

I spent a lot on my car and I have it serviced at the dealer.

I'll shop around for parts, but if the difference between factory and clone is only $2, I'll buy the factory item every time.

FWIW, in restoring my R100, I've purchased a whole bunch of used parts.

bikerfish1100
02-08-2008, 09:08 PM
Jeff,

I'm trying to understand your logic here..

BMW doesn't make oil. Correct - the specify the characteristics of the oil, and if any oil meets the specifications it's fine to use.

BMW doesn't make filters. Correct again - and again - they have specified the characteristics of their filters. Do you know of an aftermarket one that is less expensive to buy that meets their specifications? Figure I'll look a bit..

I just went through the Purlolator, Fram, Hastings, Wix and AC-Delco websites.. nada. Zilch. No listings for the R1200 engines. AC-Delco did have one for the R1150R 2003 engine, but that was it..

K&N lists one - KN-164 - but no price for it that I can find. Looks like it will be a reasonable choice: http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=KN-164 - but what's the price? Less/more than BMW's?

Here is an interesting webpage:
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/index.shtml

And take a look at the BMW filter:
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/bmw.shtml
Then a K&N (not spec'd for BMW):
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/kandn.shtml
And someone elses.. like Fram:
http://www.tobycreek.org/oil_filters/fram.shtml

Dunno about you - but I know what I'd want filtering my oil. Have to see what the price of the K&N KN-164 is..

Found it: http://www.4filters.com/Oil-Filter-OIL-FILTER-POWERSPORTS_p_0-6476.html - $15.00 + shipping. OrL http://www.amotostuff.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=AML&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=KN-164 - $13.50 + shipping, or finally on Ebay - http://search.express.ebay.com/Vehicle-Parts-Accessories_Motorcycle-Parts-Accessories_?_from=R40&_trksid=m51&_nkw=KN-164&_nd1= $13.00 + $5.00 shipping.

Doesn't seem like a big savings over buying them from a dealer, or if you're patient from Chicago BMW.. If you really want to save $$$ - you might consider doing 6,000 mile oil changes AS RECOMMENDED by BMW - and save yourself $60 or so.. (and if you're worried about the oil - spend $25 and have an oil analysis done at 3,000 miles..) unless you're only riding 3,000 miles a year and then I guess you're stuck with the 3,000 mile annual oil change.

Please 'splain what you're trying to achieve here..

fwiw- here's my preferred source for K & N oil filters. http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=TUC_40-1450_G&tier2=142 They have consistently tested very well as oil filters. I also like using the Castrol Act-Evo 20W-50 semi-synthetic motorcycle specific oil that Cycle Gear carries (link is on same page as the filters). And no, i can't explain why 1 L of it costs $4, but a 4L bottle costs $18 :scratch

bjhughes
02-08-2008, 10:56 PM
I ordered some K&N oil filters direct from K&N online for my R1200S (Use K&N air filter too). I have used these on all of my bikes...no problems yet. I personally consider K&N to be an upgrade from OEM.

bob1100rtc
02-09-2008, 12:55 AM
If you change your oil and filter on schedule it probably doesn't matter whose oil and filter you use . I personally use the bmw filter and synthetic oil cause it makes me feel like I'm doing all I can to protect my bike. But as a professional mechanic for the last 30 years, people that change their oil regularly don't have internal engine problems. I've been doing this a long time and thats just how it is.

markgoodrich
02-09-2008, 03:13 AM
Thanks-- I did some more research-- the PL10241 is the shorter of the two-- I want as much filtration as I can get-- is the length an issue? I'm not going off roading (hopefully-- at least not on purpose) anytime soon, so--- if it's not a big deal, I'm getting the longer one.
I am calling my local Advance Auto today to see what they will quote me.
But, even $11.99 for two, plus shipping (or buy two for the car and 4 for the bike) is cheaper than the $16.95 they originally quoted me when the clerk looked it up.

A book store for motorcycle oil filters........... what's the world coming to!!:laugh

note added.

$5.88 each for the PL10241. The PL25230 is $8.68.
Relying on others opinions (Toby Creek, CALSCI) it appears I can purchase a superior product for 1/3 to 1/2 the price of my local (HA!! 70 miles away) dealer. Even if the price was the same, or slightly higher, I would still buy the superior product. And this from a staunch O.E. guy!!!

What IS the world coming to??

I've got another brand on the bike right now, longer than the OEM, and have had no problems. I'm sure if I hit something with it I'll be VERY SORRY I bought the longer filter, but heck, it only sticks down an inch or so; if I do hit something that rips the oil filter off, I'll have bigger worries....

I do agree with others' comments that it's more important to do regular (following the maker's suggestions) changes than to worry about which micron is bigger.

deilenberger
02-09-2008, 03:48 AM
fwiw- here's my preferred source for K & N oil filters. http://www.cyclegear.com/spgm.cfm?L1=&L2=&L3=&L4=&item=TUC_40-1450_G&tier2=142 They have consistently tested very well as oil filters. I also like using the Castrol Act-Evo 20W-50 semi-synthetic motorcycle specific oil that Cycle Gear carries (link is on same page as the filters). And no, i can't explain why 1 L of it costs $4, but a 4L bottle costs $18 :scratchThey unfortunately don't list the hexhead K&N filter.. do you know if they carry them and the price (with shipping)?

bikerfish1100
02-09-2008, 04:22 AM
They unfortunately don't list the hexhead K&N filter.. do you know if they carry them and the price (with shipping)?

i'd call them. i've seen them have items available that aren't listed on the website. also, take a look at their locations map- their stores give the same prices as the website. makes for a great deal on tires, as a mount/balance is only about $20, wheel delivered (i used to strip the wheels off the bike behind the store), tire purchased from them.

cjack
02-09-2008, 02:51 PM
Anybody here use the Oilhead and early K filter in the Hexhead? I heard that some folks do.

deilenberger
02-10-2008, 12:18 AM
Jack, I know there are people who do - but on at least the more naked Hexheads, it would seem the filter would be somewhat vulnerable to stuff tossed off by the front tire. The "stock" short filter sits fairly well protected inside the recess in the sump.. the extra 3/4" of the oilhead/K bike filter is sticking out there in the wind..

Since there is no difference I know of in price - and no one has shown the shorter filter is doing inadequate in filtering - I don't really see a need to.

Just MHO..

blast54
02-10-2008, 03:44 PM
Anybody here use the Oilhead and early K filter in the Hexhead? I heard that some folks do.

Jack, I used a couple last year only because I had two left over from my K12 (same filter as oilheads) when I sold it last year.
It screwed on fine but did hang down a little too much for comfort.

Bill K
Foster,RI
05 R1200RT
05 VStrom

jimvonbaden
02-11-2008, 07:34 PM
There are quite a few on the ADVRider board who have used them, and their alternatives. No issues with the GS because of the skid plate, and I doubt it would be a problem on any street biikes. Hell, some street bikes have the filter right out in front behind the tire, and close to the ground.

Jim :brow

siman00
02-21-2008, 03:56 AM
Yeah, the filter on my Vstrom is about as vulnerable to things being ejected from the front tire as any bike. Never had an issue; the filter casings are pretty stout.

Having said that, a longer filter on the hexheads could pose a problem for those who jump rocks, curbs, etc with a non-GS model.

Just my 2 cents worth

TGA57589
02-24-2008, 07:38 PM
There are so many good points made here on what to do for filters and oil. Joining the MOA has been worthwhile for me to hear what everyone else thinks is the best way to go with Beemer questions. I do have the friendly local BMW store but the friendly comes with a price albeit the cost of my gear oil change at 600 miles for a problem BMW is aware of. Isn't it cool for example how BMW knew they have/had a problem with ring gears and we get to pay for a gear lube change to cover their warranty?

What I intended to do by asking what filters and oil others buy is simply this: It seems many BMW guys are grass roots lay on the ground and fix their own stuff people. I like hearing from practical and not out of the dealers mouth for everything. Had I listened to the first dealer I test rode an '07 RT with I would have $1,600 less in my checkbook. I like asking even if it ruffles some feathers.

azgman
02-24-2008, 10:19 PM
Ask away! It is what the BMW community is all about. :p

TGA57589
03-01-2008, 05:02 PM
While the oil filter ball is still rolling...

Has anyone gotten a filter wrench other than the $60 one offered by some of the premium priced BMW shops? I have the R1100 oilhead filter wrench and for what I'm reading I'm wondering does it fit the 2007? I got a pretty nice stamped sheet metal one from my local BMW guy for about $20 bucks and I know Snap-on makes some like it. I just haven't taken time to lay next to the machine and see what's under there. I've worked in heavy industry as a maintenance mechanic for many years but, work too much as of late to do anything but work.

I guess I'm giving myself away not having ridden through the road salt here in PA not wanting to see my pretty machine get all pitted and crappy looking. I'm fine with road dirt and grime but no way to salt on the machine, it stays in the shop til it can get only rain and mud etc.

bikerfish1100
03-02-2008, 05:06 AM
While the oil filter ball is still rolling...

Has anyone gotten a filter wrench other than the $60 one offered by some of the premium priced BMW shops? I have the R1100 oilhead filter wrench and for what I'm reading I'm wondering does it fit the 2007? I got a pretty nice stamped sheet metal one from my local BMW guy for about $20 bucks and I know Snap-on makes some like it. I just haven't taken time to lay next to the machine and see what's under there. I've worked in heavy industry as a maintenance mechanic for many years but, work too much as of late to do anything but work.

I guess I'm giving myself away not having ridden through the road salt here in PA not wanting to see my pretty machine get all pitted and crappy looking. I'm fine with road dirt and grime but no way to salt on the machine, it stays in the shop til it can get only rain and mud etc.


the oilhead/k-bike wrench will not fit the hexhead OEM filter.

kantuckid
03-13-2008, 01:37 PM
I started an oil filter thread on the www.R11050R.org website because I was interested in which filters filter best. I too saw the "study" where the guy cuts open filters and that is regarding the construction of the filters and in no way is there anything scientific about cutting them open and "looking at them. I cut a BMW filter open several years ago and they have a screen that the others don't have, but which one filters best. BMW is the company that went for a long oil change interval, so don't look to them for advice! What their engineers know and what the company puts in practice are not always the same.
I recently was crossing over the filter for my Kholer 15hp sawmill engine to change the oil. It is interesting to note that the Pure One filter I came up with($6 Advance auto parts) is the same one shown for the oilhead and my Tundra truck. On the other oil thread I started I mentioned this; you have a 15hp,85hp and 282hp engine all calling for the same filter. Now, you tell me, these engines are far different in service factors ,etc.. You can read there some others thought on this subject of oil filters.

It is mentioned by several on this thread that its either about the$ or not about the$-well some of us are greasy and we like to talk about this stuff anyway! The M3 guy counts his money differently than some of us, but has his solution. As far as oil analysis- it makes sense if you are talking an over the road truck or Army truck which use many quarts of oil, but for the rest of us it's less expensive to change the oil at a reasonable interval in the first place! Buying BMW oil is a joke! Lets not turn this into an oil thread but there are many excellent oils out there and it hurts nothing to shop for price.Mobil 1 ran a E30 BMW for 1 million miles in an old test and the engine never did fail, even though the car had a # of other parts replaced during the test-go figure...
My other thread got a response about the "new" Amsoil oil filters using Nanofibers. I wondered about that as I knew nothing about such and upon googling them found that they were discovered by chance in 1938 and used for filtering in WWII when steel was in short supply-so much for cutting edge technology! I still have not seen a study that measures the actual filtering ability of various filters and am interested to do so, but in the mean time I'll use BMW oil filters form Chicago anyway. BTW, I buy the Mann filters for my car on Ebay as they are the same filter by all appearance. BTW,here are many filter wrenches out there that come in lots of sizes.Bob's comment is the theory I adhere to.

TGA57589
03-14-2008, 05:17 PM
I just bought a Purolator PureOne PL10241 for my 2007 R1200RT (Advance Auto Parts filter $5.88, wrench $4.94) the filter and a stamped metal filfter wrench cost me $11.47 here in PA with tax.

I also went to the BMW store yesterday and bought 5 qts. of 20-50 (petroleum) a filter and a crush washer for $47.97. Now I have all things for my own comparison. I will note the Purolator is 1.25 inches longer than a stock BMW filter but I also put on a set of Wunderlich crash bars that have a piece of tubing that goes under the engine which will protect the longer filter. I don't concern myself with a filter sticking down too much.

I have worked in heavy industry for many years and I see what my employers do with oil in the workplace. I for one with any of my vehicle don't use oil over 3,000 miles before a change. I noticed with my R1100 RT that I had just traded on a R1200 RT that it started using oil at about 2,000 plus area. So, for me I just see it as the oil is getting used up a bit by the time you hit 3,000 so I just change it then. There's no question that lubrication is so much better today that there is no telling how long you could go before even changing a filter. Problem solved for me, unless I'm wrong and I send a rod through my 20k machine but, I also use a $4 filter on my 33k Ford truck too!

kantuckid
03-14-2008, 10:59 PM
My Tundra has so much room in the engine compartment that I choose filters that are nearly twice as long as the one called for. The cost increase is nominal compared to what must be a quantum leap in filtering and a bit more oil too. As far as clearance on my R1150R, I'll say that there is a "topes" in Mexico waiting for a filter that sticks very far!

professor
03-15-2008, 09:15 AM
While we are knee deep in oil, I have three questions as a new R1200RT owner.

Does everyone agree that 3,000 miles is the time to change oil or do some stretch it to 5,000?

Do you change the filter at every oil change or every other oil change?

If you have a dealer change the oil, what does it usually cost?

Thanks.

bob1100rtc
03-15-2008, 12:47 PM
I change my oil every 3000 and always use a new filter. Some say its a waste but I've done it to every vehicle I've ever owned and have never had an oil related failure. When I owned a turbo vehicle it got 2000 mile oil changes.

bikerfish1100
03-15-2008, 02:24 PM
While we are knee deep in oil, I have three questions as a new R1200RT owner.

Does everyone agree that 3,000 miles is the time to change oil or do some stretch it to 5,000?

Do you change the filter at every oil change or every other oil change?

If you have a dealer change the oil, what does it usually cost?

Thanks.

#1) you will NEVER got the members on this forum in agreement on anything at all, and certainly not on anything related to oil. that said- here's what i do:
#2) i follow BMW recommendations, and change around 6K. I've read enough oil analyses that tell me that the old 3,000 mark is overkill.
#3) always change filter with every oil change. that's every vehicle, all the time, allways have.
#4) i do all my own oil changes- and unless it was a "freebie" (3 of the 1st 4 on my Jetta were under a warranty service arrangement), i always have. Too simple and cost effective for me to do otherwise.

jimvonbaden
03-15-2008, 05:27 PM
#1) you will NEVER got the members on this forum in agreement on anything at all, and certainly not on anything related to oil. that said- here's what i do:
#2) i follow BMW recommendations, and change around 6K. I've read enough oil analyses that tell me that the old 3,000 mark is overkill.
#3) always change filter with every oil change. that's every vehicle, all the time, allways have.
#4) i do all my own oil changes- and unless it was a "freebie" (3 of the 1st 4 on my Jetta were under a warranty service arrangement), i always have. Too simple and cost effective for me to do otherwise.

:nod I agree to all of what he said.

3000 mile oil changes are a waste of money, resources, and bad for the environment. :deal

Jim :brow

MLS2GO
03-15-2008, 05:40 PM
I have an 07 RT and did the 600 mile change. Right before I go in in for my 6000 mile I am going to send an analysis kit in. I will post the results when I get it back. By the way with modern specs and oil quality, I think it will still b plenty good at 6000. YMMV

The_Veg
03-17-2008, 04:53 PM
Bob, my understanding is that more than one analysis (i.e., done at periodic intervals) is required to get the REAL picture of what's going on with your oil, especially to identify trends and determine a good recommendation for change-interval.

bob1100rtc
03-17-2008, 11:12 PM
I see the inside of a lot of engines. There is definately a difference between the ones that go 6000 or more and the ones that get 3000 mile oil changes. Usually the only reason I'm into a frequent oil change engine is a leak. Not usually so for the 6000 and up crowd. Though I'll admit oil change interval wasn't a factor in the 08 sebring with 1200 miles that I had to short block reciently. I change my own oil so I probably spend the same as someone that goes to the dealer for the service every 6000 when I do it every 3000. And as I have said before I'm not a tree hugger so those extra 4 qts don't bother me at all. I dispose of the oil at work so it is recycled.

deilenberger
03-18-2008, 03:22 AM
I see the inside of a lot of engines. There is definately a difference between the ones that go 6000 or more and the ones that get 3000 mile oil changes.
How about ones that go 1,000 miles between changes? Or 500 miles? Or 100 miles?
Usually the only reason I'm into a frequent oil change engine is a leak. Not usually so for the 6000 and up crowd. Though I'll admit oil change interval wasn't a factor in the 08 sebring with 1200 miles that I had to short block reciently. I change my own oil so I probably spend the same as someone that goes to the dealer for the service every 6000 when I do it every 3000. And as I have said before I'm not a tree hugger so those extra 4 qts don't bother me at all. I dispose of the oil at work so it is recycled.
The real question is - can you point to an oil related engine failure on a modern *BMW* where the factory change interval was followed?

No? Didn't think so. I've never heard of one.

If 3,000 is better than 6,000, then changing the oil every time the engine is started would be best of all.. but rather obviously ridiculous overkill. I think BMW is actually being quite conservative based on oil test reports I've seen. I'll be having mine analyzed in about 1,000 miles.. let'cha know what the results are.

deilenberger
03-18-2008, 03:33 AM
Bob, my understanding is that more than one analysis (i.e., done at periodic intervals) is required to get the REAL picture of what's going on with your oil, especially to identify trends and determine a good recommendation for change-interval.Only to determine if some condition is changing. There are base levels for the analyzed additive packages and wear-trace-levels that the oil analysis company has on record. If they see a lot of chromium they know something is happening to your rings - and can alert you to it. Other trace metals mean other parts of the engine. The good part about a lab like Blackstone is they have a database on oil analysis on various engines using different oils - and they will compare your analysis results to that database and tell you if they think something is wrong.

The analysis is not only useful if something is wrong. Measurement of the additive package remaining, the oil flash point, insolubles in the oil can all be used to determine if the oil is still good to use - or should be changed more frequently.

Be worth reading up a bit and seeing some example analysis':
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/gasoline_diesel_report_expl.html
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/eng_balloon_report_.html

bob1100rtc
03-18-2008, 10:31 PM
No I can't point to an oil related failure on a bmw motorcycle. And I conceed that being an auto mechanic as opposed to a bmw motorcycle mechanic makes me less of an expert on bmw motorcycle engines. I'm also not one to tell someone else what to do. All I'm doing is passing on what I've seen over the years. I spent $20,000 and change for my bike and for me the 3000 mile interval is right. If you run yours 6000 or more then that is whats right for you. I'll also change my FD oil every spring even though it's not recomended. According to bmw I don't need to but it will make me feel good so thats whats right for me. H-ll I even change the oil in my wifes intrepid every 4000 with M1 0-40. I know I don't need to but I do. And I have rebuilt a lot of intrepid engines. On that aspect I am definately an expert but again thats a car. Mercedes Benz recomends 10,000 mile oil changes on sprinter diesel vans (I'm the sprinter tech in my dealer). I can beat warranty time on engine replacements by 2 1/2 hours. I get faster the more I do. I myself if I had a sprinter would change oil maybe every 7500. But on the other hand there are a lot out there surviving on the 10,000 interval. Like I said anyone can do as they choose. I'm just offering an opinion. And we all know what they say about opinions.:dunno

feds27
04-11-2008, 12:40 PM
http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/archive/index.php/t-7497.html

"Hi all.

OK, as we have ben talking about oil filters lately, I now have more info that I need to tell you all, and hopefully i can save you engine.

I have ben searching the web for a Mobil 1 oil filter for my bike, but I was not able to find a listing in a Catalog, just a couple web pages that showed two different numbers, a M1-102 and a M1-301.
I tried a M1-102(Cost me 10.95) and I started the engine, I notice that the pressure was 5 to 10 pounds higher then before with the Wix.
Harleys oil pressure port in between the pump and the filter, so the reading is BEFORE it gets into the filter, so the higher reading was because the filter was restrickive.
I also looked into the oil tank to see if it was flowing, the flow was very slow, after a short ride, the engine was hot, but the oil was not getting hot.
So I shut it down, and replace the filter again with a Wix 51215.

I called up Mobil and asked if I had the wrong filter, they told me that they do not sell motorcycle filters, and were not sure if it would work on my bike. They do not make these filters, so he gave me the number for Champion filters(They make Mobiles filters, and STP's).
I got to talk to one of there engineers, and this is what he told me.

Do not use this filter on a motorcycle. It does not have the right by-pass or flow rate, and if it damages your engine, you are on your own.
He then suggested the STP motorcycle filter as a sutable one.

After work today, I had a chance to talk with a tech friend of mine, Harley Bob at Paridice Harley. He not only has 45 years as a harley Mechanic, he has a 2001 1200s that he drag races, and runs high 10's, he I trust.
I asked him about this filter and this what he told me.

If a bike comes in with non harley filter and has a engine failure, they will check the filter numberm if it is not a Motorcycle filter, they can, and most likely will cancil the warranty.
The uses of a Automotive filter is outside of that fed law that lets you use an aftermarket filter, You can only if it is oked for that vehical.

Lastly, my Fram rep called on me, and had a CH6065a in hand, and we cut it open at work this lunch, you may remember that I told him my disapointment with my last filter, well, the chrome one(The CH6065A is the chrome one) still has all metal cap ends a a good solid well spaced filter eliment, so this is not what I have seen on those web sight, he said there showing there budjet filters, use the chrome ones and you should be ok.

The bottom line is, don't beleive these web sights as they can leed you down the wrong road, and don't use a car filter on your bike, If it costs you a engine, you will be all aloan with a dead motor."

BeemerMike
04-11-2008, 12:57 PM
I called up Mobil and asked if I had the wrong filter, they told me that they do not sell motorcycle filters, and were not sure if it would work on my bike. They do not make these filters, so he gave me the number for Champion filters(They make Mobiles filters, and STP's).
I got to talk to one of there engineers, and this is what he told me.

Do not use this filter on a motorcycle. It does not have the right by-pass or flow rate, and if it damages your engine, you are on your own.

:thumb Well, I don't know if this anecdote is true or not, but it should give at least some pause to those seeking the Holy Grail of the cheap oil filter that performs as well as the BMW "factory" oil filter. Just because the filter is about the same size and will screw onto the engine does not mean it is the same filter. Now, if you find the same filter without the BMW label on it (i.e., the Mahle filter) that essentially IS the "factory" filter and you can save a little money, that is one thing.

It's your engine, so it's your decision, but you need to ask yourself is this the best place to try to save $20 per year! ;)

deilenberger
04-11-2008, 01:08 PM
BMW Synthetic and BMW stock filter:

http://www.eilenberger.net/R1200R_Roadster/r1200r%20oil.jpg

YMMV, FWIW and all other 4 letter abbreviations..

BeemerMike
04-11-2008, 01:31 PM
Don,

Interesting about the phosphorus and zinc contents (which should be an indication of the ZDDP content, the primary anti-wear additive). If I am reading the table correctly, the BMW 15W-50 synthetic oil had an average of 1,162 ppm phosphorus at 4,100 miles, and your oil had 869 ppm phosphorus at 5,500 miles.

Does anyone know what the nominal phosphorus content of BMW 15W-50 is when it is new?

For comparison, it looks like Mobil 1 15W-50 and 15W-50 EP "automotive" oils have a nominal phosphorus content of 1,200 ppm and the Mobil 1 Racing 4T 10W-40 and V-Twin 20W-50 "motorcycle" oils have a nominal phosphorus content of 1,600 ppm, compared to your typical SM oils with less than 1,000 ppm (or 800 ppm).

It would be interesting to be able to make this comparison between BMW syn and Mobil 1. I think it is the ZDDP content that is the main point of contention in using SJ and later oils vs. an SG/SH or motorcycle-specific oil.

The_Veg
04-11-2008, 01:38 PM
Don, is that 5500 miles on the bike, or on the oil?

BeemerMike
04-11-2008, 02:12 PM
Don, is that 5500 miles on the bike, or on the oil?

From the table, it looks like 5,500 miles on the oil, and 11,500 miles on the bike.

deilenberger
04-11-2008, 02:19 PM
From the table, it looks like 5,500 miles on the oil, and 11,500 miles on the bike.Correct.. The oil was changed at 6k, the bike had 11.5k when I did the oil change.

ssls6
04-12-2008, 04:22 AM
The bottom line is, don't beleive these web sights as they can leed you down the wrong road, and don't use a car filter on your bike, If it costs you a engine, you will be all aloan with a dead motor."

Do you have actual data?

professor
04-12-2008, 09:51 AM
Even worse, you might be left all "aloan" without a spellcheck. ;)

rglassma
12-21-2008, 11:57 AM
:thumb Well, I don't know if this anecdote is true or not, but it should give at least some pause to those seeking the Holy Grail of the cheap oil filter that performs as well as the BMW "factory" oil filter. Just because the filter is about the same size and will screw onto the engine does not mean it is the same filter. Now, if you find the same filter without the BMW label on it (i.e., the Mahle filter) that essentially IS the "factory" filter and you can save a little money, that is one thing.

It's your engine, so it's your decision, but you need to ask yourself is this the best place to try to save $20 per year! ;)

This should give you pause:

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=425367#Post425367

I have about 3K on an oil change using the Purolator filter and it is the first time I have done non-BMW on my '05 RT based on Calsci recommendation. I am returning to the BMW filter even though I have not experienced any problems and am out of warranty.

reimerdavid
12-21-2008, 01:06 PM
Use the BMW brand Oil Filter. save money by doing the oil change yourself at least while the bike is under warranty

MPATROVSKY
12-22-2008, 05:08 PM
Gee whiz I guess I'm really stupid. I buy OEM filters from my local dealer (90 miles away). I buy OEM oil from the same dealer. I only use Chevron Supreme 92 Octane fuel, in a pinch I'll use Exxon/Mobil Premium. Why? because I know how filthy mini mart tanks get from lack of maintenance, water intrusion, stale fuel bought surplus from the cheapest source. Gee whiz, do you think that's why my old SAAB 900 Turbo want over 400,000 miles on the original fuel pump, never needed a fuel filter, and the injectors were all original with no problems in the thirteen years I drove this beast? Thanks, just the same but I'll pass on cheap crap imitation filters, I look at it like an insurance premium, exchanging a known small loss for an unknown large one.

moshaffer
12-22-2008, 07:38 PM
Somewhere in a different thread this past week was a letter from one of the members that lost his repair warranty on something to do with a piston or cylinder, can't remember which, but it was because he didn't have a BMW filter on the bike when he took it in for warranty work. Anyway he lost his case. BMW filters seem cheaper all the time.:deal

hexst
12-23-2008, 04:54 PM
He put an oilhead 1150 filter on a hexhead 1200

R80RTJohnny
12-23-2008, 05:05 PM
The cheepest part on a BMW is the rider.

Always has been and always will be.

I use it as my excuse to be "frugal".

GlobalRider
12-23-2008, 05:54 PM
Always has been and always will be.

Speak for yourself! ;)

Hey, I still buy OEM BMW oil filters and I don't complain...its just that I buy them at about half price. :stick

108625
12-23-2008, 05:57 PM
"The cheapest part on any BMW is the rider"


Always has been and always will be.

When I was a young man I worked for my uncle, cleaning windows. One thing we regularly observed was that the customers who had the biggest, fanciest houses, had us there least often and took the longest to pay.
They were the most likely to be "call only" business, calling a day or two before they were entertaining and insisting we come out ASAP, and then being left a bill, and mailed notices, taking sometimes three months to send a check. Where as the majority of our middle/working class customers would just have a regularly scheduled visit (once a month or two) and meet you at the door with cash, often a hot or cold drink based on the weather, and a tip at Christmas.

The point is, a lot of people who seem to have more like to spend it on assets only, and get miserly regarding services or other "out of sight" items.
The big house and decor are impressive, but the people who clean it are not at the top of the spending list. The people who fix it are even less so, the plumber is only called out after the flood, not before when he could have updated the aging pipes.
Some of the same folks who get thrifty with parts and services on this forum are riding loaded RTs & LTs, etc. wearing Aerostitch and Schuberth, navigating by Zumo and chatting on Bluetooth... Geez, get you're priorities straight!

Beemer riders are often the cheapest thing on a beemer, when it comes to parts you can't see or services rendered... while simultaneously proving they don't need to be.

cjack
12-23-2008, 06:16 PM
He put an oilhead 1150 filter on a hexhead 1200

I know of several who use the 1150 filter on 1200 bikes. Other than hanging down a bit, no issues.
I'm not condoning this, but I can't think of why it would result in a scuffed cylinder.
I have also heard of a few 1200RTs with 1200 oil filters and scuffed cylinders.
There has to be more to the story.

MARTYH
12-24-2008, 02:13 PM
Here's where I need a suggestion: Assuming that the bypass valves use springs to do their thing, what's the best way to measure the force of a spring? I'm envisioning putting the spring on a scale and taking the reading with the spring compressed to a certain measurement. Anybody got a better idea?

The best way to compare springs (coil) is to stack the 2 springs with a washer between them. Put them in a vise and compress the stack to approximately the normal service compression. While compressed, measure the length of the two springs. This provides a comparitive measure.

47512
12-25-2008, 07:24 PM
Paul is right on here about the bypass valve, anti drain back is not an issue when filter is applied with the open end up. I worked for a oil company for 15 years, we did not make oil filters, but I had seen many of them cut apart in the lab. Some made by the same vender with different brand names, and they were not all the same, the vender will make what ever you want. I saw what was left of a cheap filter that was installed on a big block Chevy, in a boat, the can blew off the backing plate because it did not meet the burst pressure spec. All of the OE filters I saw in the lab, no matter who the vender was, were of good quality. Were there better filters? Yes, They may have had a better filter media, or more of it, metal in place of cardboard, better glue, higher burst pressure, better valves, and mabe none of these, just a higher price because of advertizing. So be careful when you buy aftermarket filters because many are of varying quality.

Ken G.