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TomR1200
10-07-2007, 01:10 PM
The thread on the R1200RT fuel gauge has me a bit worried...

I have a newish R1200R that I'm consistently riding about 260-280 miles between fillups. At that point, I have no "low fuel" light, and the computer says about 70 miles to go.

Here's the worry: I'm putting about 4.8 gallons into my 4.8 gallon tank! I fill it some more after the auto shutoff, but the funnel remains in place in the tank (is this the "rubber stopper" the RT guys are referring to?) Am I actually cruising into the gas station on fumes? My fuel gauge seems to work normally, registering full after the usual 30-60 seconds, and ">281" miles to go on the computer. The computer doesn't change for a while after the fillup, and sometimes the milage even climbs, to ">320" or something like that. When I get to the gas station, there's still one or two segments on the gauge.

I'm tempted to put a gallon of gas in my saddlebag, in an approved container, and go run it dry. Is this one of those fuel pumps that relies on a certain amount of fuel to cool it, and might overheat?

What are other R1200R people seeing?

Thanks, Tom

hass
10-08-2007, 09:15 AM
I put 20L (5.28 US liquid or 4.4 UK liquid) in my 18.5L tank the other day!

PAULBACH
10-08-2007, 11:25 AM
The gas gauge does not function well on the R1200GS and there is a service bulletin for this situation. The same gasoline measuring system is shared across several rides.

BMW knows it has a problem with the gas gauge.

BUT their problem need not be our problem.

Reset one of your two trip counters after each fill up and figure 200 miles is your driving limit. By then you will need to stretch your legs. Surly deep vein thrombosis (http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel/diseases/dvt.htm) has to be a problem on a motorcycle just as it is on an airliner.

After 200 miles - get off the bike and refill. I use 100ish miles as a limit but I rarely get to drive this far before I am off taking a picture. Stop, smell the roses and fill up the tank.

bob1100rtc
10-08-2007, 02:52 PM
My display said I had 37 miles to empty. I put 6.3 gallons in with the bike on the centerstand. I would say that was pretty accurate. I have an 07 RT. Maybe they are getting the problem worked out.

TomR1200
10-08-2007, 04:47 PM
My display said I had 37 miles to empty. I put 6.3 gallons in with the bike on the centerstand. I would say that was pretty accurate. I have an 07 RT. Maybe they are getting the problem worked out.

Bob, Thanks, but the RT has a bigger tank than the R.

Cheers, Tom

TomR1200
10-08-2007, 04:49 PM
I put 20L (5.28 US liquid or 4.4 UK liquid) in my 18.5L tank the other day!

Hass,

Thanks for that. I see you have an R1200R too. Do Swedish-market bikes have the evaporative emissions canister behind the headlight and the plastic "funnel" on the fuel filler to limit the amount you can add?

Thanks, Tom

hass
10-08-2007, 07:19 PM
Hass,

Thanks for that. I see you have an R1200R too. Do Swedish-market bikes have the evaporative emissions canister behind the headlight and the plastic "funnel" on the fuel filler to limit the amount you can add?

Thanks, TomHmmm... I have a funnel or tube on the inside of the tank and my instruction book says not to fill the tank higher than that (or I might end up with fuel on my rear tyre). Is that what you mean?

As for the evaporative emissions canister - I am not sure what you mean, can you post some pictures? I will take a look tomorrow morning and try to post my own pictures.

TomR1200
10-08-2007, 08:29 PM
OK, today I went for a fuel exhaustion test. I got the amber fuel tank warning light at 274 miles since last fillup. The fuel gauge had just fallen from 2 bars to one above the fuel icon. The computer said 45 miles to empty. So far so good.

The engine died 9 miles later, with the trip odometer reading 283, the computer reading 34 to empty, and the fuel gauge still reading one bar over the icon.

Interesting note: when it's out of fuel, it's out. I tipped it left and right, pushed it facing uphill, facing downhill. Not a sputter. Nice to know the tank doesn't trap fuel. I fed it 1 gallon from my gas can, then rode 7 miles to the gas station, where it took another 4.6+. After adding 1 gallon to the empty tank, the trip computer read 110 to empty. With a full tank, it read ">295" to empty.

So, should I have the dealer adjust it, or just live with the known condition? I don't really care about the computer readout, but I'd like more than 9 miles from fuel warning to sputter. On the other hand, 280 miles is all the range I ever need.

After 26 years of motorcycling, with the last 21 or so on BMW's, I finally have a bike with a fuel gauge, yet I will STILL be resetting the odometer and filling up around 200 miles. Plus ca change...

I need to go wash my fuel-stinky hands.

Cheers, Tom

P.S. Hass: US bikes have a large black charcoal canister behind the headlight. If we overfill the tank, the fuel runs into this canister and ruins it. I'll try to snap a pic tonight.

santacruzdave
10-08-2007, 11:44 PM
5.23 gal on my last fillup. One bar showing on the gage and the computer said I had 43 miles left. I love this bike! R12R Black.

FredRydr
10-09-2007, 12:18 AM
I don't think you can adjust it. Anyway, I don't expect perfection from the fuel gauge and computer calculations.

I am simply amazed at the fuel range of the R1200R compared to the R1100R and R1150R. The computer is wrong on the mpg score as well. If you calculate it in your head, it is even better than indicated by the computer!

Fred
R1200R

TomR1200
10-09-2007, 12:30 AM
I don't think you can adjust it.

Fred,

My impression from the R1200RT fuel display thread is that you can. Some guys have taken their Tubbies to the dealer with as little fuel as possible, and the dealer has drained the remaining fuel and calibrated the display, starting with a known bone-dry tank. That's what they say anyway, FWIW.

Cheers, Tom

TomR1200
10-09-2007, 01:10 AM
Hass,

This is a USA-spec R1200R charcoal canister, from the left side of the bike with the forks turned right. It gathers hydrocarbons from the fuel tank and fuel system that would otherwise evaporate while the machine is parked, and sends them to be burned at the next engine start.

We've had these on our cars since 1971, except for California, which got them earlier. They've recently started appearing on our bikes. I thought it was an EU directive, but perhaps I'm mistaken. Does your bike have one?

If you overfill a fuel tank on a bike with no evap system, then park the bike in the sun or in a warm garage, you dump fuel out the vent line (and possibly under your rear tire if moving.) On bikes with an evaporative emissions system, apparently overfilling causes fuel to enter the canister and ruin it.

Cheers, Tom

http://pixloads.com/public/43518/bmw%20evap%20canister%20(2).jpg

deilenberger
10-09-2007, 01:58 AM
Tom - can you please resize the canister photo to something like 800x600.. at it's current size - even with 1024x768 resolution (most commonly used) - it's about 2x the size of a standard page, making it necessary to use the scroll bars to read an entire page.

On the topic of adjusting the gauge/light readout. It can be done - and should fall under warranty work. What's required is to dry the tank out for about 24 hours, then add the amount of of fuel to the tank where you want the light to turn on, and tell the instrument cluster this is the set point using the GT1.

The need for the GT1 computer is the reason this is a dealer only sort of job (at least for the moment..)

It can be done..

hass
10-09-2007, 07:51 AM
ok, apologies for the dirt (I really need to wash the bike!) but here's my picture:

(As you can see the mounting bracket where the evaporative emissions canister would hang is empty so no, I don't have one - which means it is a US regulation and not an EU one.)
http://www.badvlad.com/wheels/DSC01531.JPG

TomR1200
10-09-2007, 08:02 AM
Thanks Hass.

So the evap canister is a USA-market feature. I think I'd rather take it off, reroute the hoses per the EU spec, and use the available space for a better horn.

Anyone with a link to the EU-spec parts diagram?

Cheers, Tom

deilenberger
10-09-2007, 12:31 PM
Thanks Hass.

So the evap canister is a USA-market feature. I think I'd rather take it off, reroute the hoses per the EU spec, and use the available space for a better horn.

Anyone with a link to the EU-spec parts diagram?

Cheers, TomMine is temporarily off while I adjust the front shock (which might take YEARS to get just right..)

Plug the hose going to the vacuum valve. Connect the other two hoses together with a short male/male hose barb. Done. The other two hoses are the tank vent (blow into it - it will srart to resist and when you stop - blow fuel fumes out at you) and the overflow drain from the canister (follow it to the back of the bike by the shifter footpeg..)

Funny thing is - it looks as if the canister bracket could easily be modified to hold a Strebel air horn. Go figure..

darrylri
10-09-2007, 01:20 PM
The cannister and associated "stuff" is there to meet the Californa "Shed Test". (There may be a US EPA equivalent these days, I don't know.)

The shed test works by running a vehicle for 20 minutes, turning it off and rolling it into a sealed room (the "shed"). After 24 hours, the air is sampled for hydrocarbons, and there's some small limit. The idea is that vehicles should allow raw hydrocarbons to escape. (It's the same reason we have those annoying rubber boots on the gas pumps.)

I believe that motorcycles were first required to pass the shed test in 1985. That year, BMW introduced a rather amazing system that included two large solenoid valves under the tank, that allowed it to vent to the atmosphere when the engine was running and otherwise vent through the crankcase to the airbox. (I know, my R80 came with one of these and one of the two solendoids was dead, causing it to pull a vacuum in the tank. There were no spares for it for about 6 months...)

The current system is much more sophisticated, and yet it can still be ruined if the gas tank is overfilled or the bike goes over.

The tank vents to the atmosphere through the charcoal in the cannister. The charcoal absorbs gas vapors while the bike sits. When the motor is started, the intake vacuum is applied to the cannister and the vapors are (presumably) pulled into the intake and burned. After running for about 10 minutes, a valve that is inline with this route closes.

If raw gas gets into the cannister, the charcoal disintegrates into small pieces. This can plug the cannister's atmospheric opening, and cause the intake to create a vacuum in the gas tank. As the charcoal breaks down more, it can travel up the vacuum line to the valve, and block it from closing. Then the system pulls a vacuum all the time, which can actually overpower the fuel pump and starve the motor, not to mention deforming the gas tank.

TomR1200
10-09-2007, 01:53 PM
GREAT description, Darryl, thanks.

Do you concur with Don that plugging the line to the vacuum valve and connecting the vent line to the overflow line will work OK?

Don, has operating this way generated any codes in the engine management system? Also, how does the resistance of the Stebel Nautilus compare to the stock horn? I imagine it's a good bit lower. Will it annoy the CANBUS?

Cheers, Tom

P.S. Here's an informative link to canister removal courtesy of the Ducati world: http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/ducati-evaporative-emissions/

darrylri
10-09-2007, 03:31 PM
GREAT description, Darryl, thanks.

Do you concur with Don that plugging the line to the vacuum valve and connecting the vent line to the overflow line will work OK?

Disclaimer: I haven't touched my R1200ST, it still has the cannister on it and it works fine.

What Don proposes is the standard "cannisterectomy" procedure. I would also cap the port at the throttle body, so I didn't get an air leak when the hose eventually cracks from aging. I would NOT disconnect the valve electrically because it might throw a fault -- I don't know.


Don, has operating this way generated any codes in the engine management system? Also, how does the resistance of the Stebel Nautilus compare to the stock horn? I imagine it's a good bit lower. Will it annoy the CANBUS?

I would investigate the R1200 wiring diagram to find out if there's already a relay in the system, and if so, I would try wiring the Stebel directly. If not, or if the CANBUS didn't like it, I would get a relay and take power directly (through a fuse) from the battery. I would use the existing horn lead to trigger the relay.

GregoryT
11-04-2007, 04:58 AM
I'm adding my two cents to this subject because I am also into posession of 07 R 1200 R (since June of this year I put almost 5000 totally trouble free miles) :) Whenever I use this motorcylce for commuting, I am using the same station and the same pump (you know the one with the separate fuel dispenser for each grade.)
On the regular basis I am puting about 5.7 gallon of super unleaded (according to BMW, fuel tank capacity is 4.6 plus approximately one gallon reserve.)
Last time I managed to put in 5.825 of this pressure fluid, and the computer showed that I still had enough fuel for seven miles, but I didn't have the guts to prove that (the bike was still running perfectly.)
I think in my area (Everett W.A.) they started to put oxyginated fuel because my average comsumption dropped from 48 to about 42 MPG.
I wonder if somebody else experiences the same condition?

P.S.

Have a safe and enjoyable riding!

Gregory Turek

bobelliot
11-04-2007, 10:28 AM
Had my R1200R on a trip and was getting very low on gas. Showed 3miles left on computer. Found a gas station, filled to top on centerstand 5.5 gallons. The light comes on right at 35 miles left almost always. Bike only has 2700 miles and is getting 42 mpg according to the computer.

FredRydr
11-04-2007, 12:44 PM
What are other R1200R people seeing?I am seeing amazing fuel efficiency from this this motorcycle with its large capacity motor, and 300 miles from a tank is normal, now. I get plenty of warning from the low fuel light and the computer calculation before I run anywhere near 300 miles, but I had to push it when I ran short of open gas stations one Sunday. I think it indicated 278 miles plus 11 miles calculated remaining in the tank, which was really about a half-gallon.

Fred
'07 R1200R

FredRydr
11-04-2007, 12:47 PM
Funny thing is - it looks as if the canister bracket could easily be modified to hold a Stebel air horn. Go figure..I have started to figure, but I'll have to buy one to do so.

Also, I should install wing nuts on this bracket in order to gain regular access to the front shock!

Fred

marcopolo
11-04-2007, 02:28 PM
No canisters on Canadian bikes either, as far as I know. I definitely do not have one on my '06 RT. Don't know about the '07, or '08 models, but I suspect not. I can really smell gas if I put my RT in the garage right after arriving home. We've had the charcoal canisters on cars for decades. Go figure.

deilenberger
11-04-2007, 11:47 PM
I have started to figure, but I'll have to buy one to do so.

Also, I should install wing nuts on this bracket in order to gain regular access to the front shock!

FredI've gotta get on this project sometime soon..

And as Darryl pointed out - if the canister is coming off for good (something I'd never suggest - mine is simply off for some long term - might be years - adjusting of the front shock..) - Capping the vacuum port on the throttle body is probably a good idea.

On the topic at hand - I have gotten very close to 6 gallons of fuel in my tank - and the display told me I had 15 miles to empty (the warning light had been on for some time..)

The gauge can be calibrated. The tank has to be dried out overnight, and then the bike gets hooked to the dealers GT1.. and the amount of fuel you want in the tank when the light comes on is put back in. The dealer then goes presto-changeo-wizz-bang with the GT1 and it's done. I haven't felt the need for it on my bike. I have to strech my legs way before I go 280 miles - so might as well combine it with getting some fuel.

Had a nice - brisk - deer free ride today.. then a nice nap when I got home (somehow cold weather riding does that to me..)

TomR1200
11-05-2007, 01:44 AM
The gauge can be calibrated. The tank has to be dried out overnight...

Not necessarily. A compliant delaer can drain the tank, install a new (dry) fuel measuring strip, than add 1 measured gallon and calibrate everything. My bike's fuel quantity system now works properly, and I didn't have to leave my bike overnight. Why don't they do this to every bike at PDI? (Rhetorical question; I know the answer.)

Cheers, Tom