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View Full Version : "Permanent" FD oil in 06 12GS ???



pgods
08-07-2007, 02:39 AM
Could someone explain BMWs rationale for a making FD oil changes in an 05/06 12GS to be ...um, unnecessary? And why does BMW go back to oil changes (required) for the 07.

Is the 06 design entirely different from the 07? If not, did someone in the design dept screw up royally? Are the 05/06 owners going to suffer the consequences with FD failures?


I looked at Jim VonBaden's excellent pictorial/ instructions on how to change the oil in an 05/06, but what a process!

charleshickman
08-07-2007, 01:27 PM
I don't believe that there is any significant change between the 'lubricated for life' final drive on the '05 and '06 r1200gs and the '07.

Apparently the 'life' of the final drive was less than the warranty period, hence the change. My dealer recommended changing the lubricant in my '06, for $85 plus a $17 qt of synthentic 75/90w gear lube. They were incredulus when I asked for the remaining .75 qt of lube, so I can do my own. I guess they thought they should get the $17 for the .22 qts required for the replacement.

I intend to do it every 12K miles. There are other threads on this subject. Paul Glaves has some info on the message board. As a result of reading his info I bought a qt of Dow M gear lube moly additive, which will be added to the lube in the next change, in a week or two.

deilenberger
08-07-2007, 01:33 PM
I intend to do it every 12K miles. There are other threads on this subject. Paul Glaves has some info on the message board. As a result of reading his info I bought a qt of Dow M gear lube moly additive, which will be added to the lube in the next change, in a week or two.

One caveat - it's questionable if the Dow M Gear Guard additive should be used with a synthetic oil. On my bottle it is rather specific that it be used only with standard oils. If I had to guess - the base oil it uses is a non-synthetic.

I know that Paul has used standard (non-synthetic) gear oils in the rear drives on his bikes - but these are not the new R1200/K1200 rear drives - which are very different in design than the older drives Paul was using this mixture with.

If I was going to change the oil - I would use the oil that BMW recommends and then if I felt a need for some moly-additive I'd look for one that is specifically listed as compatible with the oil I was using. Since I'm under warranty - I wouldn't use anything besides what BMW specifically recommends. Use of some other product not specified could be grounds for a warranty denial if you experienced problems with the rear drive.

YMMV and all that..

cjack
08-07-2007, 01:50 PM
Could someone explain BMWs rationale for a making FD oil changes in an 05/06 12GS to be ...um, unnecessary? And why does BMW go back to oil changes (required) for the 07.

Is the 06 design entirely different from the 07? If not, did someone in the design dept screw up royally? Are the 05/06 owners going to suffer the consequences with FD failures?


I looked at Jim VonBaden's excellent pictorial/ instructions on how to change the oil in an 05/06, but what a process!

The drives are the same. The best I can figure from the SB, etc. is that the first drives were flushed in manufacture and starting with the '07, the drives needed to be flushed by the dealer. They made no mention of periodic changes after the 600. I haven't checked the latest maintenance scheds.

henzilla
08-07-2007, 02:51 PM
I looked at Jim VonBaden's excellent pictorial/ instructions on how to change the oil in an 05/06, but what a process!

It truly is very easy once you get started:thumb ...done in less than two hours on my '05, the next time prob under an hour. The refilling thru the ABS sensor took the most time for me...cold day/ dino gear lube w/ some moly added...VERY slow thru the funnel...going to warm it up next time.

charleshickman
08-07-2007, 07:50 PM
One caveat - it's questionable if the Dow M Gear Guard additive should be used with a synthetic oil. On my bottle it is rather specific that it be used only with standard oils. If I had to guess - the base oil it uses is a non-synthetic.


Well now I'm concerned. Earlier threads had posts that inferred that BMW was putting a moly additive in the fiinal drives of the 1150s and 1200s in the factory fill.

I've never used it before. I got the impression that it was a good thing. Aren't synthetics supposed to be compatible with mineral based oils?

Anybody else want to weigh in? (Paul)

PS
I just called Dow. They indicated that the mineral based oil in the Dow M would be compatible with Group III and Group IV lubes. The product data sheet indicates that it should not be used with more exotic silicone and diester lubes. Not that I really understand most of that.

deilenberger
08-07-2007, 08:38 PM
Well now I'm concerned. Earlier threads had posts that inferred that BMW was putting a moly additive in the fiinal drives of the 1150s and 1200s in the factory fill.
People were inferring this by the color of the oil coming out of the final drives. I know of no analysis proving this, and have also seen photos of freshly drained factory installed final drive oil that was clear - no sign of moly additive in it. I'd also note that BMW makes no mention of a moly additive or moly containing oil in the specifications for the oil used in the final drives.
I've never used it before. I got the impression that it was a good thing. Aren't synthetics supposed to be compatible with mineral based oils?
One would hope - but that would make me wonder why Dow specifically says it is for use with mineral based oils.


Anybody else want to weigh in? (Paul)

PS
I just called Dow. They indicated that the mineral based oil in the Dow M would be compatible with Group III and Group IV lubes. The product data sheet indicates that it should not be used with more exotic silicone and diester lubes. Not that I really understand most of that.Good call... now if we can make sure the synthetics we're using are a Group-III or IV based oil (I suspect they are.. but dunno enough to say for certain.)

It would be interesting to hear from Paul - but I suspect we really need a bearing engineer to clear up if moly is a good thing in this application. The bearings in the new rear drives don't resemble those in the older rear drives at all. The older drive used a tapered roller bearing at one end and a large plain ball bearing at the other end (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0432&mospid=47962&btnr=33_0639&hg=33&fg=10).

AFAIK - the new rear end design (http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0398&mospid=49569&btnr=33_1265&hg=33&fg=10) uses needle bearings (6 & 11) of some sort. I haven't seen one taken apart yet - but the design is rather obviously different from the older traditional drive design - so I wouldn't immediately assume what worked well with the old drive will work well with the new one.

And since I want to keep mine under BMWs warranty.. I use what they recommended.

blast54
08-07-2007, 10:06 PM
And since I want to keep mine under BMWs warranty.. I use what they recommended.

Ok...so what do those of us that have the lifetime diffs use?

There is no recommendation in the manual.

Bill Kenney
Foster,RI
05 R1200RT
05 Vstrom

charleshickman
08-07-2007, 10:42 PM
Ok...so what do those of us that have the lifetime diffs use?

There is no recommendation in the manual.



Mine is an '06 and the dealer replaced it with 75w-80 BMW synthetic, same as for the '07s.

deilenberger
08-07-2007, 10:45 PM
Ok...so what do those of us that have the lifetime diffs use?

There is no recommendation in the manual.

Bill Kenney
Foster,RI
05 R1200RT
05 VstromBill,

The R1200R manual says GL5-Synthetic. Castrol SAF-XO to be specific.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/s/SAF_XO_SAF_XJ_B1174_96.pdf

PGlaves
08-07-2007, 10:47 PM
In lieu of the Dow Gear Guard in synthetic lube, Guard Dog Moly sells a moly additive that is specifically designed for synthetic lube. They also sell an additive designed for 80w90 dino oil.

www.guarddogmoly.com

They also have a nice Moly Paste - 70% moly and not quite as dry as Honda Moly 60.

Dow has bounced around on the issue. But the Molykote M (Gear Guard) should mix fine with anything that regular dino gear oil will mix with - which is to say almost anything you can buy off the shelf today.

blast54
08-07-2007, 10:59 PM
Bill,

The R1200R manual says GL5-Synthetic. Castrol SAF-XO to be specific.
http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_australia/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/s/SAF_XO_SAF_XJ_B1174_96.pdf


Paul Glaves suggested 75-140 in mine, which I haven't got around to picking up yet.
I don't know if that is syn or dino .

Will check the container, if it is syn will leave it be, if dino will get out my jug of Gearguard.

Thanks
Bill

deilenberger
08-07-2007, 11:46 PM
Paul Glaves suggested 75-140 in mine, which I haven't got around to picking up yet.
I don't know if that is syn or dino .

Will check the container, if it is syn will leave it be, if dino will get out my jug of Gearguard.

Thanks
BillIt's synthetic - there are no mineral oils with that wide a viscosity range.