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FredRydr
07-09-2007, 12:31 PM
We all like brighter light at night, and one way is to install a high quality bulb to get a slight edge over the stocker. But the R1200R has H11 bulbs and there seems to be very little out there on this type. Has anyone seen a source for H11 Philips VisionPlus or Silverstar bulbs?

I read that H9 bulbs fit despite the intentional design to prevent that.

Fred
'07 R

FredRydr
07-10-2007, 04:36 PM
How about this. Has anyone run 70 watts through the headlight's solid-state relays of a CAN-bus bike with (or without) any symptoms?

Fred
'07 R

mogu83
07-21-2007, 12:02 AM
Here you are:
http://www.eautoworks.com/html/ORD-1-1-1-38111.cfm

Now if we can only convince someone to buy one and plug it into his can-bus bike.

I don't have the nerve, it's still magic to me.:dunno

FredRydr
07-21-2007, 02:34 AM
I plugged two 70-watt H-11 bulbs into the R1200R's headlamp, and there was no objection made by the motorcycle. It was in the shop for more accessories, but the mechanic detected no faults generated from the higher watt bulbs.

Fred

mogu83
07-21-2007, 10:44 AM
Did you notice a difference? and where did you get the bulbs?

OldNuke
07-21-2007, 01:21 PM
Try these bulbs

http://bestrestproducts.com/celestia/products/lighting/

FredRydr
07-21-2007, 02:19 PM
Did you notice a difference? and where did you get the bulbs?I hate to say this, but I haven't had the chance to ride it at night with the new bulbs to tell!

I bought them direct from Hoen, (http://www.hoen-usa.com/) and after several questions, they said I could return them if I didn't like them. They did recommend their 55-watt bulb, but I wanted to push the envelope with the CAN-bus, since I knew the bike would be in the dealer's shop hooked to the BMW computer when the bulbs were in place.

Fred

FredRydr
07-23-2007, 01:27 PM
Did you notice a difference? Alas, there is no improvement, and at the higher wattage, they'll put more drag on your alternator for naught. Save your money.

I knew I was a guinea pig going into this. At least the seller offered to take them back.

Fred
'07 R

gulfcoastbeemer
08-16-2007, 06:44 PM
I have an RT, which uses an H7 bulb. I had one of the stock bulbs go out, and replaced it with a Sylvania (Osram) SilverStar H7 -- sort of a poor man's faux-HID lamp.

It's like night and day. (Did I really say that?)

The SilverStar bulb, with its color temperature of 4,000 kelvin, is vastly superior to the stock 3,200 kelvin bulb. Same wattage for both bulbs -- just different lumins and light quality (kelvin temperature). One looks white, the other, by comparison, looks almost amber.

deilenberger
08-16-2007, 08:55 PM
Alas, there is no improvement, and at the higher wattage, they'll put more drag on your alternator for naught. Save your money.

I knew I was a guinea pig going into this. At least the seller offered to take them back.

Fred
'07 RFred - glad I held off.

Did some ugly night riding last night (construction zones, shore traffic sort of stuff.. tourists on vacation driving poorly..)

The stock headlight - while better than other BMW headlights I've had, is barely adequate even on high-beam. The good part about it - people didn't flash me when I was running it on high-beam (in the construction zone, looking for potholes, in-line-linear ones are the special of the day in NJ now.)

My Hella lights make night into day - but 'cause they're SO bright - can't use them with any oncoming traffic within 1/4 mile or so.

Overall - night riding is vastly overrated IMHO... :D

deilenberger
08-16-2007, 09:01 PM
I have an RT, which uses an H7 bulb. I had one of the stock bulbs go out, and replaced it with a Sylvania (Osram) SilverStar H7 -- sort of a poor man's faux-HID lamp.

It's like night and day. (Did I really say that?)

The SilverStar bulb, with its color temperature of 4,000 kelvin, is vastly superior to the stock 3,200 kelvin bulb. Same wattage for both bulbs -- just different lumins and light quality (kelvin temperature). One looks white, the other, by comparison, looks almost amber.Actually - the US Sylvania SilverStar is not the same bulb as the Osram SilverStar. I tested both of them - with footcandle plots using a "standard" headlight, and a lab-power supply, plus a precision footcandle meter - for an article for the BMW Car Club of America.

The Sylvania one puts out no more lumens (or footcandles) than a standard H7 halogen bulb. The Osram one (available from Powerbulbs.com in the UK) does put out more light - about 20-25% more. Measured.

While "whiter" may seem better - there is the argument that it causes more back-scatter in the air (why the sky is blue..) which causes the pupil of your eye to close down - limiting how much light gets in.

One other thing - trying a new bulb against an old bulb - even identical bulbs - the new one WILL be better. Bulbs do age, and as they get older they loose light output - in the order of 20% or more. A brand new bulb without the blue coloring on it may well have appeared much brighter to you.

The only real unfortunate thing about this - the H7 bulb (which I have a LOT of left over from testing) won't work in the R1200R headlight... and Osram doesn't make an H11 bulb in the Silverstar line in Europe.

gulfcoastbeemer
09-19-2007, 11:37 PM
The Sylvania one puts out no more lumens (or footcandles) than a standard H7 halogen bulb. The Osram one (available from Powerbulbs.com in the UK) does put out more light - about 20-25% more. Measured.

I bought my SilverStar H7 ST bulbs at AutoZone. The bulbs didn't appear to have a blue coating. Regardless of the footcandle issue, my eyes told me these bulbs with their 4000k color temperature were more effective -- making things more visible at a greater distance.


http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003693263

deilenberger
09-20-2007, 12:56 AM
I bought my SilverStar H7 ST bulbs at AutoZone. The bulbs didn't appear to have a blue coating. Regardless of the footcandle issue, my eyes told me these bulbs with their 4000k color temperature were more effective -- making things more visible at a greater distance.


http://www.sylvania.com/content/display.scfx?id=003693263
That can be the difference between your old bulbs and new ones. Bulbs over time loose light output - typically up to 30% loss before failure. Sort of like why new tires always feel much better than the old worn out ones. Photos claiming to show a difference in light output are always suspect since imaging systems are not at all linear. What appears to be a large change in a photo may be barely noticable by human eye.

If you want actual numbers - not advertising hype, see: http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Let_There_Be_E36_Light

Or not..

:D

gulfcoastbeemer
09-21-2007, 01:06 AM
If you want actual numbers - not advertising hype, see: http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Let_There_Be_E36_Light

Not to be argumentative, but you don't seem to be placing any value on my numbers -- the difference between a standard Halogen bulb with a color temperature of 3200K and the SilverStar Halogen bulb with a color temperature of 4000K, a value which is much closer to sunlight.

Yes, I realize that bulbs age and that both of these bulbs have same lumens; but lumens don't tell the whole story. Color temperature plays a significant role in what we actually see!

I refute the conclusion in your bmwcca.org article:


“Blue” or “whiter” bulbs: These are bulbs that the manufacturer claims make “whiter,” or sometimes “blue” light. There are bulbs available from reputable manufacturers claiming to make “whiter” light; this is really a marketing term, 2 and advertisers rarely claim any increase in actual light output. The claim may be made that the user can see better with these bulbs due to the whiter color of the light produced, and often a big deal is made of the bulbs’ “color temperature,” which, like wattage, is not a measure of light output or effectiveness.

Color temperature is not an advertising term!

Look at this representation of color temperature in Kelvin and tell which bulb might have a better light quality -- 3200K or 4000K?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Color_temperature.svg/578px-Color_temperature.svg.png

deilenberger
09-21-2007, 01:22 AM
Not to be argumentative, but you don't seem to be placing any value on my numbers -- the difference between a standard Halogen bulb with a color temperature of 3200K and the SilverStar Halogen bulb with a color temperature of 4000K, a value which is much closer to sunlight.
Not to be agumentative - color temperature as advertised on bulbs is primarily hype. Bluer isn't better for night vision - indeed, authorative sources (Daniel Stern http://www.danielsternlighting.com/ - who has written many opinions that have become NHTSA regulations) generally agree that blue light is harder to see at night with - due to backscattering caused by the shorter wavelength. This becomes worse as your eyes get older - and can be a real problem for people with pre-cataract conditions.

Here are a few more links to explore:
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/superwhite/superwhite.html
and
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/good/good.html


Yes, I realize that bulbs age and that both of these bulbs have same lumens; but not all lumens are the same. Color temperature plays a significant role in what we actually see!
A lumen is a measure of light. One lumen = one lumen. Color temperature does play a significant role in what we see - but for reasons that may seem a bit converse to the advertising hype put out by the bulb companies. The links above by Daniel explain it much better than I'll try to here.



Look at this representation of color temperature in Kelvin and tell which bulb have a better light quality:


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Color_temperature.svg/578px-Color_temperature.svg.png
Sorry - that really is meaningless. "Better light quality" isn't a measurement with any basis in science. The response curve (light color vs sensitivity) of the human eye is strongly biased towards the longer wavelengths (lower Kelvin numbers), so higher doesn't mean better. It may mean whiter - but not better for night vision.

Please read Daniel's articles, and you might find it useful to wade through my article - which has actual measurements of the bulb you're talking about - where it was no better than a standard halogen bulb - same or less - light output, despite the claims by the manufacturer.

Best,

gulfcoastbeemer
09-21-2007, 02:56 AM
Don, I guess you didn't bother to look where 4000k sits on the scale I provided. Blue?

I give up. I'm just a fool -- easily duped by advertising hype. Don't waste your time casting pearls before swine.

Your article? I couldn't possibly comprehend the infallible logic of your treatice. I did try to follow it. I just kept coming to the conclusion you are a cheap SOB who will go to great lengths to justify his frugality. It's okay. I respect cheap.

For someone so blessed with lighting expertise, I'm still try to reconcile your rejection of the R1200ST, in favor of the R1200R. Oh, that's right. The superior R1200ST headlight is ugly.

Good luck making your own bulbs?

10564
09-21-2007, 03:07 AM
:bikes try these, they really work and use less power.
p.s. stick with the 4300k



http://www.xenonrider.com/

deilenberger
09-21-2007, 03:58 AM
Dear gulfcoastbeemer - I won't drop to personal insults. Enjoy whatever lights your fire..

gulfcoastbeemer
09-21-2007, 12:40 PM
Dear gulfcoastbeemer - I won't drop to personal insults. Enjoy whatever lights your fire..

Don, how many Beemer owners does it take to change a light bulb?

Answer: Ten -- one to actually replace the bulb, and nine to discuss how great the old bulb was along with an argument of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the replacement bulb.

FredRydr
09-21-2007, 01:21 PM
I forgot to mention that when I was unable to buy Philips Vision Plus in H11, I asked the California retailer of Vision Plus for a source for H11 bulbs of similar quality, and he referred me to the Hoen dealer. I mistakenly assumed that referral carried some imprimatur of quality, but it turned out that the Hoens were essentially junk. Bits were falling off as I repacked them into the box for return.

As is oft-repeated: Buyer beware.

Fred
'07 R1200R

FredRydr
09-21-2007, 01:26 PM
Don and Gulf,

You guys love it. How about a bulb shootout at night at Black Diamond for Guinness? I'll be the stakeholder.

Fred
'07 R1200R

P.S. I think the ST one of the very coolest, headlight and all. But then, I drove Saabs at the peak of their ugliness, so who am I to judge?

gulfcoastbeemer
09-21-2007, 02:31 PM
Guinness?

Mmmmm....

I like the ST as well. Odd, I was told that U.S. dealers have to "special order" them -- whatever the heck that means. (Or course, I'm still trying to wrap my head around the term "pre-board".)

Perhaps there is more heat that light in this thread.

FredRydr
09-21-2007, 03:50 PM
I like the ST as well. Odd, I was told that U.S. dealers have to "special order" them -- whatever the heck that means.My understanding is that due to poor US sales of the 2006 model, BMW only brings them over by special order (no different than a special order for any model when we want a particular color or option). And, they come with the new ABS II.

A trip to Europe to see what they ride and drive will remind you how conventional American preferences are for vehicle design.

Fred

deilenberger
09-24-2007, 02:10 AM
Unless I heard wrong - the ST can' t be ordered.. it's been discontinued in current form by BMW due to poor sales. There is a rumor it may reappear after some work on a facelift.

FredRydr
09-24-2007, 02:49 AM
BMW R1200ST orders. (http://www.bmwmotorcycles.com/bikes/bike.jsp?b=r1200st)