BMW Management, engineers, designers

[raven]

With all the hard-bitten, BMW owners/riders headed to Essex Junction to rally, ride and do whatever, does BMW Management send it's designers and engineers to the rally? It would seem a wonderful place and time for the these folks to see how thier designs meet or fail to meet the needs of riders.

[SIBUD]

With all the hard-bitten, BMW owners/riders headed to Essex Junction to rally, ride and do whatever, does BMW Management send it's designers and engineers to the rally? It would seem a wonderful place and time for the these folks to see how thier designs meet or fail to meet the needs of riders.

Maybe it is hard to admit failure? :dunno

[SheRidesABeemer]

With all the hard-bitten, BMW owners/riders headed to Essex Junction to rally, ride and do whatever, does BMW Management send it's designers and engineers to the rally? It would seem a wonderful place and time for the these folks to see how thier designs meet or fail to meet the needs of riders.

They would have to care what we think first, I don't think the end user is their first priority. As the 10% female minority I know they don't care what I think.

[flash412]

Ef zee kustomerz do NOT like our productz, zen it iss ze kustomerz who are defectif! - BMW Korporate

[Rob Nye]

They would have to care what we think first, I don't think the end user is their first priority. As the 10% female minority I know they don't care what I think.

If that is the attitude they are going to receive why bother. I tend to avoid places where I know I will get a hostile reception, why should the people from New Jersey be any different?

I suppose if they really didn't care about you 10%ers then all their riding apparel would not be offered in women's sizes. I guess the lowering kits offered for their bikes are just for short men too.

We are dicussing BMW's expanded involvement in this year's rally including seminars and Q&A sessions. BMW is also making it possible for us to offer the grand prize winner their choice of new bikes.

Bottom line is we are inviting and encouraging BMW to take advantage of the proximity of the rally to their HQ and they are responding favorably.

Best,

[SheRidesABeemer]

If that is the attitude they are going to receive why bother. I tend to avoid places where I know I will get a hostile reception, why should the people from New Jersey be any different?

I suppose if they really didn't care about you 10%ers then all their riding apparel would not be offered in women's sizes. I guess the lowering kits offered for their bikes are just for short men too.

We are dicussing BMW's expanded involvement in this year's rally including seminars and Q&A sessions. BMW is also making it possible for us to offer the grand prize winner their choice of new bikes.

Bottom line is we are inviting and encouraging BMW to take advantage of the proximity of the rally to their HQ and they are responding favorably.

Best,

You make good points as usual Rob. I'm not very knowledgeable about BMW's after market efforts in the area of making things smaller for the average sized women rider (as that has never been an issue for me) My beef with BMW and women is the continued sexist advertising that I see. The women are always beautifully groomed passengers . I long for the day when women riders are treated as riders and not objects de art. There is no effort on their part to market to women. They have no stock offerings that are appropriate for people of smaller stature. It's not their market. :dunno

[Hodag]

My beef with BMW and women is the continued sexist advertising that I see. The women are always beautifully groomed passengers .

The male models look like no one I've ever seen riding a bmw also.


you know what sexist thing irks me, baby changing stations located only in womens rest rooms. Am I the only dad that takes his kids out to eat, and then has to change a diaper???

[dogsridewith]

Girls will buy a "guy" vehicle. Guys won't buy a "chick" vehicle. Why VW was so stupid to put the bud vase in the new beetle and wait years to bring out a hot one.

[kbasa]

You make good points as usual Rob. I'm not very knowledgeable about BMW's after market efforts in the area of making things smaller for the average sized women rider (as that has never been an issue for me) My beef with BMW and women is the continued sexist advertising that I see. The women are always beautifully groomed passengers . I long for the day when women riders are treated as riders and not objects de art. There is no effort on their part to market to women. They have no stock offerings that are appropriate for people of smaller stature. It's not their market. :dunno


When it comes to the height of their bikes, you're right. However, when it comes to riding gear, they offer a wider array of gear that's suitable for women than anyone else.

Perhaps you missed their campaign with the R11S a couple years ago. The rider, a woman, utters one of the most famous taglines of BMWdom: "I didn't know BMW made cars until I passed one."

Also, for the F650CS, they had: "I got my first accessory on my bike. I think his name is Mike."

On the pictures they used to circulate of the track day at Loudon, they had one that was a series of R11Ss flying in close formation. Judy Mirro was riding the lead bike, though it's hard to tell.

[BradfordBenn]

It is interesting as working for a manufacturer in a different industry (although we are a supplier to BMW Automotive as well as Harley) we have just now started taking our engineers to tradeshows. It has been a boon for us.

The customers like talking with the factory people. The engineers get outside of their cube and get to interact with customers and get responses. Also many of the engineers often say, "we never thought about ..." so for them to get direct unfiltered feedback is a good thing. I know of at least five changes we have made in the past three months just from these meetings.

I think that the BMW team should be willing to talk with their customers to help improve their products, it will help breakdown the barriers between corporate and customers.

Now in terms of taking lumps... I have done my share of that. It is part of the deal.

[chasman]

I always thought BMW motorcycles should be sold without seats and windshieds. Most of us replace one or both soon after buying a bike! 8>O


Riding Like the Wind (on a Rick Mayer saddle)...

CHASMAN #12106
Black '02 K12RS
Knights of the Roundel #333
NRA Life Member

[The_Veg]

In the vehicle industry, the model passenger for ergonomic layout is still 5'10" and maybe 180 lbs

At least it's not the 5'7" & 150 lbs they use in aircraft design.

[Rich]

Am I the only dad that takes his kids out to eat, and then has to change a diaper???

Yes. :nyah

[marcopolo]

I'd like to see the engineers from BMW Germany at the rally. Two years ago I went to Americade and did a fair number of demo rides there. At the Kawasaki area, there were three R&D engineers from Japan talking to riders after their demo rides. One of them spent 30 mins asking me what I'd like to see in the next generation Concours. He seemed genuinely interested and took lots of notes. He sometimes needed a little help with English from one of his colleagues, but he was quite keen to hear what I had to say and asked me lots of questions. I was quite impressed. Can't see why BMW can't do that. I don't see a whole lot of point in talking to BMW US (unless it's about service/warranty and the like), when the ones who take the decisions are in Germany.

[SIBUD]

I always thought BMW motorcycles should be sold without seats and windshieds. Most of us replace one or both soon after buying a bike! 8>O


Riding Like the Wind (on a Rick Mayer saddle)...

CHASMAN #12106
Black '02 K12RS
Knights of the Roundel #333
NRA Life Member

Almost every review of a BMW bike comments on the seat. Do they make them uncomfortable on purpose or are Germans rears built differently? One could draw many different conclusions from failure of BMW to address this issue.

I have a Russell on Lucy and it is very comfortable. When I bought the bike, the PO gave me the stock seat which is now 13 years old and still new.

Perhaps BMW has interest in the after market seat and windshield companies? (insert tongue in cheek emoticon here)

[1flyer]

I'd like to see the engineers from BMW Germany at the rally...... I don't see a whole lot of point in talking to BMW US (unless it's about service/warranty and the like), when the ones who take the decisions are in Germany.

Exactly. I've learned from my industry and from my customers that the last person you want to talk to is a marketing guy/gal who knows very little about how the "equipment" operates or how it will be used in the real world. Some of the greatest improvements have come from actually taking the design engineers with me on a trip to the field and putting them in the same environment as the owners/operators. I've had more than one say that the experience was a real eye opener.

I don’t think I have any interest in talking to someone from BMWNA but I'll gladly buy a real BMW guy a glass of our bad American beer! Here is a question for the Rally team. Are you only talking with BMWNA about participating in the Rally or are you going to the source, the Germans, and asking them to attend?

[100394]

Ef zee kustomerz do NOT like our productz, zen it iss ze kustomerz who are defectif! - BMW Korporate

I Agree, "Vee don't haf surging prrobllem vith the motorcycle, vee don't haf prrobblemms vith zee final drifes"

[GRANT63RT]

I Agree, "Vee don't haf surging prrobllem vith the motorcycle, vee don't haf prrobblemms vith zee final drifes"

...and zee modificationz to our new model vill correct what you miztakenly percieve as a prrobblemm! :german

[Polarbear]

Ever try to tell a German engineer that he is wrong? Usually this is a very one way conversation, or a brick wall event! We're different, we like the bikes and we'll keep buying them, because we're different in the bike world. How would we(Beemerphiles) be if our numbers were like Harley Davidson? I would get bored, seeing my bike around every corner! Either way, Germans and our love for their little propellar symbol on our bikes, seem to keep us motivated and stirring the pot. The German guys and gals will show up and act all stuffy and snooty and so on and maybe you'll like this. I usually just sit and watch. Its fun to people watch; especially foreigners,hehehe..... :nyah

[CustomSarge]

It's one thing to have a German engineer tell you what you can't do, it's another to BE a German engineer hearing it... What I've done to three of their wunderkind makes their eyes roll (I've seen it, it's Great).

The BMW owners, as a group, seem to be the least likely to radically modify their scooters. I flat do not understand this. While I won't rad a perfectly good machine, I love the challenge of remaking a seriously crashed into something completely different. Most of those wind up dismantled into parts bins, sad.

Maybe it was coming up through (& graduating from) H-Ds, that makes stock where you start from. gas wrenches ON... <<<)))

[cjack]

When it comes to the height of their bikes, you're right. However, when it comes to riding gear, they offer a wider array of gear that's suitable for women than anyone else.

Perhaps you missed their campaign with the R11S a couple years ago. The rider, a woman, utters one of the most famous taglines of BMWdom: "I didn't know BMW made cars until I passed one."

Also, for the F650CS, they had: "I got my first accessory on my bike. I think his name is Mike."

On the pictures they used to circulate of the track day at Loudon, they had one that was a series of R11Ss flying in close formation. Judy Mirro was riding the lead bike, though it's hard to tell.

Some of their bikes are tall for everyone. That's just the way it is when the cornering competes with the parking. As for suits, they have the Light and Easy and the Belice which are cut like women...not just for womens' stature. They also come in petite sizes. There are at least a half dozen other suits, while straight up and down in shape are sized for a smaller stature. All off the rack. My wife just bought a 650 low which she can flat foot. She rides K1200S ordinarily and is 5'3". One thing we miss is BMW does not make boots with a high sole which would help her S riding. Harley does though they are not waterproof.
You might want to pick on Aerostich for not recognizing smaller stature women riders. Viki has a Darien and a Road Crafter jacket which has to be folded over at the waist about 4 inches to be comfortable on the bike. I know they make alterations, and that would be an option, but I guess you are stuck with it after it's altered. She mostly rides with a Light and Easy suit and a Tourgard suit in the winter. While BMW does not feature women riding GSes in every ad or brochure they produce, I think they are far and away one of the better companies in this favorable direction.

[Rob Nye]

I was out for a ride today with some folks from the Adventure Rider's forum.

A GS owner gave my new R12Adventure a close look at said:

"It looks like the engineers at BMW took at look at the most popular modifications we make and incorporated them into one hell of a bike."

I think both the 1150 and GS Adventure are the product of BMW paying attention to our market.

I am also willing to be the K12GT (especially the first gen.) was in response to the perception that the first mod K12RS owners were doing were aimed towared improving wind protection.

Best,

Rob Nye

[vermontrider]

Dave - you were right. That was me in the 2001 BMW campaigne at Loudon. I traded back and forth from lead rider to second rider. We did that for most of the day. I also posed in riding gear for the catalog pictures. At 5'-3/4" and a 28" inseam the only way you can tell it is me - note the head not coming up high above the windscreen. I am still seen in many of the ads in the ON. Local shops still like the pics. You can tell by the snow in the background. I think we can still do a lot more and I will probably try again to hook up with BMW very soon to do some more serious Ad work - since I am short, a chic, and all the other stuff I do. We'll see.

We can't stop now! : ) Always more to do. As a matter of fact there are gears turning that you just don't see. More on that later. Happy riding folks! &: ) Judy

[andy45320]

I am also willing to be the K12GT (especially the first gen.) was in response to the perception that the first mod K12RS owners were doing were aimed towared improving wind protection.

Absolutely...don't forget dropped the stupid exhaust pipe -> bigger right bag, better seat, more power :)