Oil filter cover question

[apexeric]

I am new to motorcycles and BMW's. I bought an airhead because of their simple design. I am interested in learning about the engine and how to maintain it.

I was changing to oil in my R65 for the first time today. When I removed the oil filter cover I noticed that the white o-ring was against the cover and that the metal shim was between the o-ring and the filter. The paper gasket was between the cover and the engine case.

Is this the correct position for these parts? My owners manual does not show the metal shim. And the Haynes manual does not seem to show the order either.

I am not sure if the order should be: cover>paper>rubber o-ring>metal shim.

Or should the order be: cover>paper>metal shim>rubber o-ring?

I do not wish to experience the $2000 o-ring!

Thank you in advance for your replys an input.

[jmerlino]

Your parts were in the correct order. I had originally put the metal shim on the cover. That's wrong. I had to go back and change it.

[apexeric]

Thank you. That is the way that I put them back together. I was afraid to start the engine with out asking.

[paulfinney2]

Happy Birthday - a little late, but what the heck.
I had an 82 R65 awhile ago and really liked it. I now have an 86 R80RT, and want to keep it because of its simplicity and just a great bike.
Good luck.
:bikes :german

[Boxerkuh]

apexeric: Welcome to the BMW family and Airheads. You got a great bike, enjoy it! I can only recommend that if you have not already done so to join the MOA and the Airhead club. Invaluable information, expert advise and if I must "toot our own horn" we are just the best bunch of guys and gals!! :clap

[apexeric]

Happy Birthday - a little late, but what the heck.
I had an 82 R65 awhile ago and really liked it. I now have an 86 R80RT, and want to keep it because of its simplicity and just a great bike.
Good luck.
:bikes :german

Thank you. I had a college room mate that had an R65. He would service the bike in our living room! Very cool. I had to have one of those. Now that our children are finishing high school I finally bought one.

I own a trucking company and have a large service garage. I allowed one of my "friends" to borrow my facility this past winter. He also needed a few parts to finish his project. When it was time to pay for all of the parts he said that he was short on cash but had a motorcyle that was similar to mine.

We agreed on a equatable trade value for the parts and the bike. When he dropped the bike off at my shop it was really an R80RT!! Now in the span of one year I have two of my all time favorite bikes!!

[apexeric]

apexeric: Welcome to the BMW family and Airheads. You got a great bike, enjoy it! I can only recommend that if you have not already done so to join the MOA and the Airhead club. Invaluable information, expert advise and if I must "toot our own horn" we are just the best bunch of guys and gals!! :clap

Thanks. I am a member of MOA and ABC. Once I have completed MSF I will venture out on some longer trips! Looking forward to meeting people.

[bmwmick]

Thanks. I am a member of MOA and ABC. Once I have completed MSF I will venture out on some longer trips! Looking forward to meeting people.

Eric,
The next time you are in the filter area it would be a good idea to actually measure the depth of the filter cannister. Since you are an ABC member, you should know Snowbum. :)
http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/Oil.htm

[lkchris]

It's the correct order EXCEPT

the paper gasket is not used except on very early Airheads.

Just remember that the purpose of the shim (washer) is to protect the white o-ring from the sharp edge of the filter canister.

[apexeric]

It's the correct order EXCEPT

the paper gasket is not used except on very early Airheads.

Just remember that the purpose of the shim (washer) is to protect the white o-ring from the sharp edge of the filter canister.

So I should get rid of the paper gasket? And by doing that it will allow the cover to put more pressure on the white o-ring?

[20774]

Yes, more than likely the paper gasket is not needed as Kent mentioned. It was also mentioned to measure the depth of the canister relative to the outside of the engine case. Typically, the depth is 3-4mm. If that's the case, one shim and no gasket is the norm. More than that and you'll probably need another shim or two. Less than that, you'll probably need the paper gasket in order to prevent the o-ring from being squished too much. I haven't seen it lately, but someone put together a spreadsheet in order to determine the amount of o-ring squish depending on depths and number of shims, etc., used. I think the goal is to get about 25-30% of squish. I kind of eyeball it by looking at how much the cover has to be tightened once I run the three bolts figner tight on the cover. If after finger tight, the cover still has about 2-3mm left to go before it is flush with the engine case, then I figure I'm getting a decent amout of o-ring squish.

Kurt in S.A.

[apexeric]

Hmmm, is there that much of a variance in the size of the filters? Surely the engine case can not have that much variance.

Also, what is the thickness of the paper gasket? So much that the o-ring will not seal properly?

I appreciate all of your input so far.

[bmwmick]

Hmmm, is there that much of a variance in the size of the filters? Surely the engine case can not have that much variance.

Also, what is the thickness of the paper gasket? So much that the o-ring will not seal properly?

I appreciate all of your input so far.

Eric,
Did you read this: http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/Oil.htm
It's not the filter, it's the cannister depth.

[apexeric]

Eric,
Did you read this: http://home.jps.net/~snowbum/Oil.htm
It's not the filter, it's the cannister depth.

Well, ummm, I opened it at work, and I scanned it quickly. I will reread it again tomorrow.Thank you.

[carockwell]

To simplify the cannister depth issue, with a single shim installed against the canister, the depth needed for correct compression of the O ring is .118-,126 inches,or 3.0 - 3.2mm. This is very close to the dimension of 10 shims. You can purchase 10 shims for $20 and have a lifetime supply. So, if you need 11 shims to get perfectly flush with the outer surface of the engine case, then your O ring compression is perfect with no paper gasket. Most people cannot afford a depth micrometer and the stacking shims method seems easier. Have I got this right?

[20774]

The following was provided by Oak:
- Oring thickness = 4.0mm
- Shim thickness = 0.3mm
- Gasket thickness = 0.5mm

Add oring and shim thickness. Subtract gasket thickness if used. Subtract the canister depth. Divide this answer by the oring thickness and multiple by 100. This equation results in the percentage of oring compression. You're shooting for 10-25%.

Kurt in S.A.

[apexeric]

OK. I took my recently repainted, recently remounted Pichler fairing off of the bike and took the oil filter cover back off.

Then I measured the distance between the edge of the canister and the side of the engine case and that distance equaled 3.0mm.

So I took the paper gasket off and reinstalled the oil filter cover with the rubber o-ring and the metal shim in place. As I was tightning the mounting bolts it seemed to me that there was a more substantial "squish" factor coming from the o-ring than before with the paper gasket in place.

I have only had the bike a short time and there was a paper gasket in place before I performed the oil and filter change a few days ago. :dunno

I started it up and there were no leaks. I have not been able to ride because I had shoulder surgery two weeks ago to correct a swimming injury and I am still feeling the effects of some rather pleasant pain killing medication. I will probably ride tomorrow.

Thank you all again for your advise and help!

[bmwmick]

To simplify the cannister depth issue, with a single shim installed against the canister, the depth needed for correct compression of the O ring is .118-,126 inches,or 3.0 - 3.2mm. This is very close to the dimension of 10 shims. You can purchase 10 shims for $20 and have a lifetime supply. So, if you need 11 shims to get perfectly flush with the outer surface of the engine case, then your O ring compression is perfect with no paper gasket. Most people cannot afford a depth micrometer and the stacking shims method seems easier. Have I got this right?

Most everyone should be able to afford one of these:
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/tabviewer/startBrowseBook.do?bookid=119&preview=&type=RET&simple=
$16.99 for a digital SAE/Metric 6" caliper with depth ranging is pretty affordable in my book. :)

[bmwmick]

Eric,
Congratulations for doing it right!

[lkchris]

It would be nice if there were real statistics available.

Until convinced otherwise by real statistics, I'll maintain the filter canister depth question is "hype" generated by certain gurus and others to increase the perception of their importance.

It sure seems that for the most part if a cansiter hasn't been disturbed by a DIYer or a mechanic at some point it's quite likely the factory did it right. You pretty much can't affect it doing oil changes, either.

I bet real statistics would prove only a VERY few bikes were assembled incorrectly by the factory. It's somewhat typical "mechanic talk" of course to bad mouth the factory, but again it's criticize someone else to make yourself look important.

Another thing--while it "looks" like a shim, the better term is "washer," and that's what it's called in the BMW parts books. The purpose isn't spacing--as with a shim--but rather protection of the white o-ring and more to the point simply to provide something for the white o-ring to bear against. We're all familiar of course with the fact that beginning in the late 1980s the filter canister was modified to have a rolled-over edge and on those models the washer (along with the paper gasket) is not required at all.

[20774]

Kent -

While there's no statistics available, shouldn't we allow for the possibility that there might be differences in the canister depth? I think it's safe to say they're not all at the exact same depth. Given the possibility for that, wouldn't you then agree that being able to maintain proper pressure on the white o-ring is important? Taken to extremes, no pressure on the o-ring and too much pressure (resulting in serious distortion) are bad things. So there must be a happy medium in there someplace... Besides, the factory was not infallible...they did get some things wrong.

Hype or no hype, I say check that there's "decent" squish on the o-ring to ensure that it's sealing and can't get cut by the lip on the canister. A pretty decent way to do that is to use the "shimsher" or "washim", whichever works best.

Kurt in S.A.

[lkchris]

If your motor hasn't blown up by now, you probably have good enough canister depth. Especially if you omit the paper gasket--as you're supposed to.

[apexeric]

If your motor hasn't blown up by now, you probably have good enough canister depth. Especially if you omit the paper gasket--as you're supposed to.

The bike has 47000 miles on the odometer now. I am the 3rd owner. I don't want to be the guy responsible for blowing it up!

[donbmw]

I have a 1982 R65, I am the orignal owner. It came from the factory with the paper gasket on it and I still use one when changing the filter. My R65 has 90,000 miles on it. I have never had any problems with this. From personal experience with a friend that had a 1982 R100. He changed his oil the day before we were to go on a trip, the morning that we were to leave he started his bike and the oil pressure light stayed on. We looked over everything. I asked what he had done that when I found he had changed oil the day before. Remove the filter cover and found that the metal shim was missing. Found it where he had dumped the oil. Reinstalled all parts and started the bike stil had no oil press. I had not seen how he installed the parts. Removed the cover found the metal shim next to cover and then oring. Had him install cover with oring then shim ever worked fine. The shim is a seat for the oring to seal and not bypass the oil around the filter housing. I have and 1975 R90 the smaller cover for the filter is the same as the oring and shim on the newer models.

[rowansride]

misuse of company resources is punishable by an unencumbered riding season.... unencumbered, and unemployed....

[bmwmick]

misuse of company resources is punishable by an unencumbered riding season.... unencumbered, and unemployed....

WOW,
This guy gives new meaning to PUI. :)

[tuber1]

I started out with a /5 and have always used the paper gaskets. when you guys say older bikes, you mean the kind I always have had. I've always used the gasket on my '83 also. And that cannister depth was never an issue 20 yrs ago.

[20774]

If I'm not mistaken, the /5 (and /6) had a different filter arrangement. They had inner covers with different sealing surfaces. Most likely, a gasket was needed on the outside (case) cover.

Kurt in S.A.

[Rod Sheridan]

Today, I went to the local BMW dealer to pick up some parts, along with two oil filters for a 76 R90/6.

The new computer database either tells me I need the hinged filter, or the bike doesn't have an oil filter. I guess they spent too much money on the 6 stories of chrome and glass, and not enough on proof reading their database. The dealership staff however, were very helpful and we did eventually resolve the part # mix up.

The correct BMW part # appears to be 11 42 1 337 198 in case anyone else has fun at the dealership.

regards, Rod.

[Mikemag]

I've got an '82 R100RT with oil cooler. When changing my hinged filter today I found a small spring and what looks like a threaded retention ring (external threads) loose in the filter housing. On the back wall of the housing there is a small round opening with a steel ball sitting in it. I'm guessing the spring goes against the ball and the threaded ring threads in to hold the spring against the ball. Is that right? What is that for and how tight should I make it? Is there some web site where I can see a drawing of it? I've been searching over an hour now and haven't found anything. Thanks.

[20774]

Sounds like that's the parts for the bypass valve that sits in the base of the oil filter canister. RealOEM shows this as parts 10, 11, 12:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=0449&mospid=47888&btnr=11_1706&hg=11&fg=35

I wonder where the ball is? It might have come out and has made its way to the oil pan. If the pathway is open to the relief valve, the oil would have bypassed the filter.

Has you're oil cooler been getting warm? If not, then that might also indicate that the oil has been bypassing the filter as well as the cooler. Oak Okleshen just answered a question in the Airmail magazine about a guy with an '88 R100GS who wasn't getting any action out of his cooler. Turns out the ball and spring had been installed wrong at the factory and the bypass valve was stuck open.

[Mikemag]

Thanks, Kurt. The ball was still in there so that's good. The diagram link you sent was for an K75. I'll search that site for a diagram for an R100. I guess I can call a dealer and ask them what they might recommend as far as how tight to make it.

[Mikemag]

Oh, and I haven't noticed my cooler being warm since I'm not in the habit of touching the radiator to check.

[20774]

Thanks, Kurt. The ball was still in there so that's good. The diagram link you sent was for an K75. I'll search that site for a diagram for an R100. I guess I can call a dealer and ask them what they might recommend as far as how tight to make it.

Actually, it said "K57". That picture was for a '82 R100RT...that "K57" is some of the nomenclature that's used to describe the bikes.

From what I read in the tech article in the Airmail, the small tube at the base of the canister is screwed in place. Probably held in with some blue loctite I would think. The article indicated the guy got a screwdriver and modified the tip to fit the slots in the tube so it could be backed out.

[jamesdunn]

This is turning into a long thread! There is /was an active thread on this topic which turns up regularly. As to the O-ring I always apply a little petroleum grease to hold it in place, make sure the metal "washer" is between the O-ring and the metal end of the filter. I do not replace the gasket on the cover each time ( '78 RS), if it appears "okay", as one has to clean off the remnants of the old gasket.

I will also use only OEM filters in the future as I can find no good quality aftermarket filters for our bikes. I installed a Fram last time as it was all I could find locally, it is poorly made, but not inexpensive. I will make sure I have an OEM on hand for the next change.

[Mikemag]

Actually, it said "K57". That picture was for a '82 R100RT...that "K57" is some of the nomenclature that's used to describe the bikes.

From what I read in the tech article in the Airmail, the small tube at the base of the canister is screwed in place. Probably held in with some blue loctite I would think. The article indicated the guy got a screwdriver and modified the tip to fit the slots in the tube so it could be backed out.
Oh, yeah, I see that now. I did get it back together but am not certain I got it right. The picture doesn't look like what I'm seeing, but it's a bit small. I may need to print it and then enlarge it. I'll try to find that article in Airmail, too. Thanks for the tips.