R1100RT High Oil Level

[lazywizard02]

Well, I guess I did it, ie filled 4 qt.s which must be a bit too much. I haven't yanked the covers yet but I smell an "over run" of oil, a leak as it were. Any one have advice on this? Did I damage the bike or just blow a seal?

[BubbaZanetti]

first thing: Dont run it anymore!

second thing: After letting the bike sit on the sidestand for a few, put it on the centerstand, pull the drain plug and let out enough oil so that when you look in the sight glass its around the half way mark. you hands will get messy, but i've never had too much trouble doing it this way, if you let too much out, just add a little, using the sightglass as a judge. start the bike again for a little while (some say you have to heat the oil up to operating temp for this to be accurate, your call) then shut it down, put it on the sidestand for 5 minutes, then back on the centerstand and see where the level is.

if you smell oil it very well could have pumped out the crankcase breather and into the bottom of the airbox, there should be drain plugs on the bottom of the box so you can get the oil out................


somewhere around 3.7 qts is usually enough, considering even once you've drained it there's still gonna be a bit of oil in the cooler and some "hiding" in the heads and elsewhere.

[lazywizard02]

Thanks BZ - the "don't ride it" advice is a bit late. The bike seems to be "wet" on the right side of the engine case. It's not dripping on the garage floor and I think the excess is wetting thew exhaust when running. I'll have it apart soon to inspect. Good advice on the airbox. With crossed fingers, I may have just flooded some oil.

[Boxerkuh]

I made the same mistake once... turned out I added too much oil when I did not see any oil in the sight glass (but it was dirty :nono need to make sure that the sight glass is always clean) Anyway, I realized it when I changed the oil about 3K later... Long term... no damage done, valuable lesson learned. Clean it all up, change the oil again or get it to the correct level. I keep my fingers crossed, but think you will be okay. :thumb

[breyfogle]

Did I damage the bike or just blow a seal?

If you added 4 US Qts with an empty new oil filter, I don't see how any harm could be done. Oilheads are just not that sensitive to relatively small over/under fills.

[lazywizard02]

Well, no apparent damage to the bike. I swapped out the valve cover gaskets and adjusted valves installed new plugs and checked head torque. All was copacetic. It does appear that there is a leak from a 17mm or larger hex bolt at the base of the cylinder, right side. Is this a cam chain adjuster? I researched oil leaks and it seems that the left side oil sender can leak. We used to see this often on older beemer cars, same part I think. tightened the bolt mentioned, it has a copper washer/seal, and the leak slowed. Now I know what I am doing next weekend.

[j-budimlya]

And I have an R1100R....

I can think of one more place to look for trouble...

On the right side is the crankcase breather hose going up to the airbox...

this is to relieve pressure and excess oil, just in case someone does you know what, well, my hose was split....and I only found out when I put in a bit too much oil and did some hard riding...

I'd check the condition of the hose...if split, it needs to re replaced...it lets dirt directly into the crankcasse....it's not too expensive...and while a bit tricky to change...it's just a a pain to do,,,,not difficult...

[jacco]

first thing: Dont run it anymore!

I know that this is the best advice, but just out of curiosity, what would the worst thing that could happen be? I also thought that you'd clog the air filter and so on, which would cause the bike to run poorly, be a mess to clean up and cost a few bucks for a new air filter. But can anything more serious result from this? I'm talking moderate overfill, maybe 1 qt or so too much. I can see that if you put 8 qts of oil in it has nowhere to go...

[j-budimlya]

and the bottom of the pistons move just as fast&far as the top...and on this motor they move at the same time...both in and both out...so go figure...

move out....then move in...if the "in is full of oil"...and the breather tube is small, designed for moving air....the pistons or somehting else will GIVE...and this is definitely not good...

so, a little over fill is Ok....but at some point...not so good...

[jacco]

and the bottom of the pistons move just as fast&far as the top...and on this motor they move at the same time...both in and both out...so go figure...

move out....then move in...if the "in is full of oil"...and the breather tube is small, designed for moving air....the pistons or somehting else will GIVE...and this is definitely not good...

so, a little over fill is Ok....but at some point...not so good...

Sure. That's why I specifically talked about "moderate overfill". I cannot imagine that a moderate overfill can get you in this situation. There must be space for an extra quart or 2? Maybe simply filling the breather tube with oil is already bad? Not that I know what I'm talking about...

[j-budimlya]

the displacement of the motor is about 1.2 liters

the volume of "air" or "oil(if seriously overfilled)" moved in the crankcase is 1.2 liters times the rpm..

and the breather hose is about 1/2 diameter inside...

how much volume can you force through a 1/2 inch hose....

this is a bit of a gross simplification....but it illustrates my point...

serious overfilling is bad..

However, I have filled with most of 4 quarts, with a filter change, and while the window was full, there was no carry over and no damage...

maybe I'm lucky....but probably not...

[jacco]

how much volume can you force through a 1/2 inch hose....


In roughly 5 milliseconds (half a cycle at 6k rpm)...

[soffiler]

Aside from the discussion on serious overfill hydrolocking the engine, there is a danger to moderate overfill that no one has mentioned yet. If the oil level is high enough that the crank throws are spinning into it, it will cause serious aeration. And if those air bubbles get pumped thru the engine, bearing damage can result.

[BubbaZanetti]

Sure. That's why I specifically talked about "moderate overfill". I cannot imagine that a moderate overfill can get you in this situation. There must be space for an extra quart or 2? Maybe simply filling the breather tube with oil is already bad? Not that I know what I'm talking about...


when i think minor overfill, i think putting in 4L instead of 4 Qt, which is probably a difference of 1/4-1/3 of a quart, nothing too major, but you might end up with some oil in the bottom of the airbox. a whole quart though, i think thats quite a big oversight, i mean, you'd have to be opening a fifth bottle of oil to do that (unless you use the "big jug") and 1 quart over on a sump and engine of this capacity i think could spell trouble pressure wise............

[jacco]

when i think minor overfill, i think putting in 4L instead of 4 Qt, which is probably a difference of 1/4-1/3 of a quart, nothing too major, but you might end up with some oil in the bottom of the airbox. a whole quart though, i think thats quite a big oversight, i mean, you'd have to be opening a fifth bottle of oil to do that (unless you use the "big jug") and 1 quart over on a sump and engine of this capacity i think could spell trouble pressure wise............

OK, wow. 4 L versus 4 qt is only 0.22 L too much, or less than half a pint... Oil would barely reach the top of the sight glass in that case I suppose. Thanks, I'll pay even more attention to this than I already did...

[soffiler]

... a whole quart though, i think thats quite a big oversight, i mean, you'd have to be opening a fifth bottle of oil to do that (unless you use the "big jug") and 1 quart over on a sump and engine of this capacity i think could spell trouble pressure wise............

I still think the big trouble with overfill is aeration of the oil and subsequent bearing damage... not pressure problems. However, thankfully, I have no direct experience in this area! Anybody got some solid tech info?

[Pyrrho]

From what I understand, in a serious overfill situation, that the counterbalancers would slap into the oil and cause stress damage to the innards in short order.

[AntonLargiader]

Pistons hitting oil?

Holy moly guys. Look at the motor and just imagine how high the oil level would have to be before the pistons would hydrolock on it.

[AntonLargiader]

From what I understand, in a serious overfill situation, that the counterbalancers would slap into the oil and cause stress damage to the innards in short order.
The R1200 counterbalancer runs in the clutch cavity, dry. If you mean the counterweights on the crankshaft, they are barely bigger than the pistons. Long before they touched the oil, the cam chains would be sucking it up and flooding the heads (probably what happened in this case).

[Pyrrho]

From a 6/1/04 post by Adrian Bolam on IBMWR:

If you overfill just a little, nothing untoward will happen.

If you overfill too much, the pistons' counterbalances on the crankshaft will slap into the oil in the overfilled sump as the crankshaft rotates. This will result in a shock load on the crankshaft bearings and excessive, probably very rapid wear.

Between the two 'extremes' above, it is likely that there will be more oil vapour in the crankcase which will probably gradually find its way through the oil control rings in the pistons making the exhaust more smokey (blue smoke). This may reduce a catalytic converter's efficiency (if fitted), at least in the short term. I wouldn't expect excessive engine wear in this scenario; you may not even detect any smoke visibly and, of course, the oil consumption would start out higher than normal and then improve as the level sinks back into the sight-glass.

[lazywizard02]

Concurrent to the "slight" overfill (4qt v 4L) I experienced an oil leak that I was concerned was related. It appears that the leak is more due to 10 year old o-rings and seals. I took the opportunity and adrenaline filled ambition to service the fuel filter, valve clearances and gaskets, plugs, and chain tensioner seal. A leak remains and is hopefully the cam inspection plate seal for which I have a set of new o-rings to change this weekend. Althought the leak remained and chooses to drip on the header collector the bike did 600 miles saturday without any other complaint.

The discussion here has been good and I have learned very useful data including the nasty surprise of potentially losing a sight glass. I need to add a spare to the inventory. The bike remains a pleasure to ride and service and it seems much less daunting the more work I do.

I have become concerned about the need to lube the splines and change the seal on the drive shaft. Any direction on a previous string here?