BMW 2005 revenue report

[robdogg]

I saw the link on the MOA home page about the profits BMW had last year. The interesting thing is that car sales increased by a fairly moderate 7.8% but motorcycles increased by 18.9% which is a huge increase in sales in most peoples books; I wonder how much of that was due to the Long Way Round series; but that's a different thread.

I don't want to start a thread war about BMW marketing (there's a good one going on over at advrider if your interested :D) or pricing etc. but ultimately we can hope some good will come of it; like maybe re-opening some North American dealers that were closed down; or entering new markets; or MAYBE even a reasonably priced mid range GS model based on the new F800
:heart

so what would you wish for? (now be civil, this ain't advrider)
:wave

[Motorman]

Don't get all hyped up about the numbers as they may not mean much. It depends on how many units were sold in each category.

Example:

If the car sales were about 500,000 per year and they had a 8% increase, that's a fair number of units being sold.

If the bike sales were about 5,000 units and there was a 18% increase, that's not much of a unit number increase. It's still a nice percentage gain but not much in actual numbers.

As to hoping for a "reasonable price" on a new bike, don't hold your breath if they can get an 18% increase overall. If they had recurring 18% DECREASE for a couple years there is an incentive to reduce prices, but not if sales are going up on high price units.

[JCBR1150R]

I'm not the type to analyze every trend in the motorcycle industry, or at least not the sales of a single make, but I'll agree that if demand goes up so will the price. The problem BMW will face here is that for the money, there are many other makes that produce comparable bikes, ask way less for them and DO NOT penalise the consumer for their relative success. I like my motorcycle, don't get me wrong, but if they were asking another $2K for it I would have gone somewhere else.

[Kbrick]

There was a lot of new product on the showroom floors. A good thing for a company that will run a platform for a decade or 2.

New stuff means new interest and more sales. All good.

The styling overall must have been accepted by most, or its the lighter more powerful drivetrains that might be pushing the sales.

The autos just leave me cold, oh well back in my F350 Ford!

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

I don't think too much of it came from the LWR as it was not that popular in the US. The 12 month lag before US release did not help either.

I just believe the sales were due to:

a) more disposable income by folks for the big bikes and new models in categories such as born again bikers (folks who are getting back into the saddle after an absence of many years), new riders later in life with a new interest in riding and of course the conquest sales of other more affluent brands.

b) a trend toward the use of smaller bikes for commuting due to gas savings for the smaller models,

c) a greater trend in retirees' increasing interest in m/ctouring for the LT's ( Light Trucks).

[robdogg]

As to hoping for a "reasonable price" on a new bike, don't hold your breath if they can get an 18% increase overall. If they had recurring 18% DECREASE for a couple years there is an incentive to reduce prices, but not if sales are going up on high price units.

It's not totally unreasonable to hope for; look at what Ducati did with the popular Multistrada; they came out with a smaller, less filling version with the Multistrada 620 and it's not like they are known for producing "economy" bikes either

I think the market would be ripe for a middleweight GS; but then that might hurt the sales for the bigger one which I think is what happened when Suzuki released the VStrom 650; it almost instantly became much more popular then the DL1000; at least among the adventure crowd

NOTE: neither the Multistrada, nor the VStrom are really what I am talking about; but those are the closest two examples I can think of. What I'm really talking about here is a midsize, 400lb range aventure style twin with all the features that make these bikes so appealing (decent power, good ground clearance, adequate suspension travel, 200+ mile fuel range, spoked wheels etc.) and keep the price below 10g's - But this is a topic for another thread alltogether

[lorazepam]

NOTE: neither the Multistrada, nor the VStrom are really what I am talking about; but those are the closest two examples I can think of. What I'm really talking about here is a midsize, 400lb range aventure style twin with all the features that make these bikes so appealing (decent power, good ground clearance, adequate suspension travel, 200+ mile fuel range, spoked wheels etc.) and keep the price below 10g's - But this is a topic for another thread alltogether

Sounds like you want something like the Triumph tiger, or a Buell Ulysees. They both come in way closer to your price point than a BMW. Hell until they dropped the price, folks were dropping over 10k on a 650 thumper. I attended the CW show over the weekend, and if things work like I want, I will have a Ulysses in my garage, and the servo assist brakes will be someone else's problem.
I wanted an RRS for many years, since I was a kid. I have 30k trouble free miles on the bike, but with all the stuff surfacing about servo assist brakes, I think I am going to buy something more reasonably priced, better dealer network, and not so complicated that I cant take care of the problems myself.
Guess when BMW Tristate went under, that told me that no dealership is safe, they can go at any time, depending on what NA does to make their life miserable.

[robdogg]

Not really. I've owned two Tigers; and a KTM 950; and about a half dozen mid-size thumper dual sports (and various other dirt and street bikes) The Tigers were OK, but Triumph is definately moving away from the adventure segment with the alloy wheels, longer wheel base and rake angle; and with the belt drive and low mounted muffler on the Ulysees; I wouldn't characterize that as an adventure bike either; at least not one that I would take too far off the pavement.

The KTM 950 was pretty close; but with it's unimpressive fuel range and, extreme height and the worst seat on any street bike made (I also had serious overheating issues with mine); well bottom line was it was too heavy to be a good dirt bike and too high strung for a good long distance bike; for me anyway. This is probably why I will never be without at least two bikes in the garage; both capable of either street or dirt; one leaning towards pavement and putting on the miles, the other just as happy being ridden on the single track in our wonderful mountains around Washington, Oregon, Idaho etc. or in the Baja wilderness; even if it means riding it there.

But I still contend, there is an untapped segment for the USA in the mid size adventure bike category.

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

Sounds like you want something like the Triumph tiger, or a Buell Ulysees. They both come in way closer to your price point than a BMW. Hell until they dropped the price, folks were dropping over 10k on a 650 thumper. I attended the CW show over the weekend, and if things work like I want, I will have a Ulysses in my garage, and the servo assist brakes will be someone else's problem.
I wanted an RRS for many years, since I was a kid. I have 30k trouble free miles on the bike, but with all the stuff surfacing about servo assist brakes, I think I am going to buy something more reasonably priced, better dealer network, and not so complicated that I cant take care of the problems myself.
Guess when BMW Tristate went under, that told me that no dealership is safe, they can go at any time, depending on what NA does to make their life miserable.


Buell have really done a nice job on that bike, and they fit me nice too with quite a few stylish features. I fear they will be in the Tiger category though being setup mainly for road or hard pack at worst...and that is okay as not every bike needs to be a KTM either. My buddy and I were looking for knobby tyres for a Ulysses last week as he was seriously interested in buying one...no luck.

For an alleged dual sport it has sportbike size wheels that don't easily allow for an easy find for knobbies, and the fender setup in the rear would need work to provide clearance. We found some Pirellis that were made for the MZ although those are not as good as the OEM tyres that are on the Buell imo.

The local HD dealer won't allow road tests until April 2nd and so I will wait for a road test..I even offered to ride down on mine so they could see the roads were okay...still no good...lol.

Good luck lorezpam...this really is a cool evolution for Buell. Will you get the Buell/Hepco-Becker bags or aftermarkets for it?

[lorazepam]

I plan on the HB bags for sure. The seat is huge on the Ulysses, the riding position is great, and it is made by a company that actually admits mistakes when they make them. You can go to the Ulysses site and see a *conversation* with Eric Buell and some of his engineers.
Refreshing to see someone actually wanting customer input to improve their products.

I am not going to be riding a lot of wilderness areas with the bike, mainly gravel roads and some fire roads for my off pavement run. No need for knobbies for me.

After trying to correct BMWNA for a couple years, I am also tired of getting stuff addressed as Ms Smith.

Newmanr19, I have to agree with you about the KTM. Nice bike, but more hard core than I want. The Tiger has the Chain, which isnt really an issue nowadays, but the belt on the Buell has been tested pretty harshly, and I will trust it as much the rear drive on a GS.

The best part about BMW ownership is the people, and I guess if I keep an airhead around I can still play here.

[The_Veg]

I think the Ulysses looks more the adventure part than it is because of the big trend in dual-sport sales to folks who will rarely if ever take them off road. But I'm sure you guys all guessed that.
I sat on one at the new bike show and it was okay...but I'd still rather have a GS.

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

I plan on the HB bags for sure. The seat is huge on the Ulysses, the riding position is great, and it is made by a company that actually admits mistakes when they make them. You can go to the Ulysses site and see a *conversation* with Eric Buell and some of his engineers.
Refreshing to see someone actually wanting customer input to improve their products.

I am not going to be riding a lot of wilderness areas with the bike, mainly gravel roads and some fire roads for my off pavement run. No need for knobbies for me.

After trying to correct BMWNA for a couple years, I am also tired of getting stuff addressed as Ms Smith.

Newmanr19, I have to agree with you about the KTM. Nice bike, but more hard core than I want. The Tiger has the Chain, which isnt really an issue nowadays, but the belt on the Buell has been tested pretty harshly, and I will trust it as much the rear drive on a GS.

The best part about BMW ownership is the people, and I guess if I keep an airhead around I can still play here.

The Buell line has evolved tremendously with quality and innovation and as you said lorezpam they learn from errors instead of hiding them or readdressing them through NA Marketing.

I read the various reports on the Ulysses and I feel the belt is better than the rear drive of GS due to lifetime warranty, maintenance free etc and not to mention smoother than a gear drive assy be it in bevel or sprocket/chain.

So when are you buying it and when will you be in MI?...lol

[robdogg]

I love the fact that Buell came out with this bike; the competition to BMW and the other manufacturers can only benefit us all. I read somewhere (OTL I think) where MCN actually preferred the Ulysses to the GS. Too be honest, I have a hard time understanging how that could happen, but I haven't read the report yet to see how they justify that decision. Regardless; kudo's are certainly due to Buell

[lorazepam]

I think the Ulysses looks more the adventure part than it is because of the big trend in dual-sport sales to folks who will rarely if ever take them off road. But I'm sure you guys all guessed that.
I sat on one at the new bike show and it was okay...but I'd still rather have a GS.

I bet you 50% of the GS's out there have never been off road. I ride my RRS on a gravel road every time I leave the garage.

Eric Buell had an online Q&A (think BMWNA will ever do that?) and said the Ulysses is not intended to be a backwoods bike. It is for those who would like to ride fire roads or want a stable bike for rough back roads and gravel roads.

The bike doesnt have a spark arrester, and isnt meant to go where they are required.

At 12 grand, it is a true bargain AFAIC when compared to the GS

[BubbaZanetti]

The best part about BMW ownership is the people, and I guess if I keep an airhead around I can still play here.


i thought we were loosing you, i forgot about the airhead!

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

I bet you 50% of the GS's out there have never been off road. I ride my RRS on a gravel road every time I leave the garage.

Eric Buell had an online Q&A (think BMWNA will ever do that?) and said the Ulysses is not intended to be a backwoods bike. It is for those who would like to ride fire roads or want a stable bike for rough back roads and gravel roads.

The bike doesnt have a spark arrester, and isnt meant to go where they are required.

At 12 grand, it is a true bargain AFAIC when compared to the GS


lorezpam Isuspect you are right and would possibly guess higher than 50% of GSes never being off road and that's okay...owners decisions and all. At 550 pounds the GS is really just a trails and gravel bike...it just happens to have been all over the world to get to those trails...lol.

My buddy has found somebody on Advrider who may have a lead on some rims to adapt the Ulysses to accept a narrower taller tyre that can accomodate a knobby. The belt is the part that really requires thought and design to adapt. Time will tell.

[lorazepam]

lorezpam Isuspect you are right and would possibly guess higher than 50% of GSes never being off road and that's okay...owners decisions and all. At 550 pounds the GS is really just a trails and gravel bike...it just happens to have been all over the world to get to those trails...lol.

My buddy has found somebody on Advrider who may have a lead on some rims to adapt the Ulysses to accept a narrower taller tyre that can accomodate a knobby. The belt is the part that really requires thought and design to adapt. Time will tell.

They threw chunks of metal and other debris at the belt during testing, since this certainly would be an item of discussion by potential buyers. It was subjected to way more than it should see in real world applications.

They also stopped the bike in water above the pegs, shut the bike off, restarted it and rode out of the water, so the exhust under the bike is not an issue either.

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

They also stopped the bike in water above the pegs, shut the bike off, restarted it and rode out of the water, so the exhust under the bike is not an issue either.


In one test they also did some stump hopping with it and used the exhaust as a pivot...no probs....a good bike all the way round...I love the flip up carrier/backrest too that operates with a key...very cool.

[PUDGYPAINTGUY]

Detroit show