Doghouse???????

[Wolf]

What's this Doghouse nonsense all about? What is this kindergarten? We are all adults. Let us speak our minds. Sorry fish but everyone has really had enough of your holier than thou attitude. Who are you to judge anyone and their thoughts. Give it a rest man and grow up. Find something constructive to do with your time and stop being a total control freak.

[lancew]

quit crying. All you and Kevin seem to be interested in doing is ragging on the chromeheads. You don't like 'em? good for you. Let it go. Don't join. Stick your tongue out at 'em every time they ride by you. Whatever. Nobody's interfering with your "freedom of speech"- you are welcome to say whatever you want. But if the mods would rather limit topics here to constructive stuff for grownups rather than whiny axe-grinding, that's their prerogative. I'm here to read about rides, riding, rallys, and bike-related stuff, not hearing one group howl and moan about how some other group was mean to them. (you poor things, I can't imagine)

Go start your own anti-chromehead site and do whatever you want. Oh, wait, you already did that.

So far all you've managed to prove is that no matter what group you're in or what brand you ride there are always a few people around who get a kick out of showing everybody how much "attitude" they have and congratulating each other on how "cool" they are. I think Kevin called the chromeheads posers in another thread, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the difference between a "hush-puppy Ralph Lauren poser" and an "I'm a tough-guy bad-ass" poser. To each his own pose, I guess.

hey, fish, consider this an "aye" vote for filling the doghouse whenever you like.

[1969 R90/2 US]

I have had bikes my entire life, but only entered the world of BMW when I picked up a vintage bike a couple of years ago. In fact, I only joined BMWMOA just prior to the Rally once I decided to attend.

In a casual effort to gather information on the R1200C, I visited both the chromeheads and jugheads sites. What a difference. I found some pretty useful stuff on the chromeheads site. I found mostly rants and garbage on the jugheads site.

What the most venomous of the jugheads (no need to list names) miss is this:

The jugheads claim to champion free speech and freedom and deride both the chromeheads and MOA sites for what the jugheads perceive to be a lack thereof. The truth is this: Freedom means that the chromeheads and the BMWMOA have the right to establish websites that cater to their own tastes. No one forces you to join. You jugheads have done exactly the right thing by starting your own forum. Every time you cite "freedom" and suggest that the chromeheads or the BMWMOA should change their rules to fit your desires/tastes, you appear to be quite hypocritical to me.

Freedom of speech does not equal the right to be heard on any forum of your choosing. Relax and go for a ride.

[Kevin910]

Lancew;

Before you start pontificating on your soapbox I would suggest you do your homework and get your facts straight. Don't fabricate things that I never posted and don't create words and expressions that I never used. The more I read your critiques the more you lose any grain of credibility.

[Wolf]

Lancew,
Sorry that you are so insecure that someone with a different opinion bothers you.

"I'm here to read about rides, riding, rallys, and bike-related stuff, not hearing one group howl and moan about how some other group was mean to them. (you poor things, I can't imagine)"

The above may not be what YOU are here for but fortunately this world does not revolve around YOU. If YOU don't like what I am posting the solution is simple DON'T READ IT. Nobody is sitting at your terminal with a gun to your head forcing YOU to read Wolf's post. Believe me I don't have such a high opinion of myself as to think that this whole board revolves around the Jugheads and I.

"So far all you've managed to prove is that no matter what group you're in or what brand you ride there are always a few people around who get a kick out of showing everybody how much "attitude" they have and congratulating each other on how "cool" they are. I think Kevin called the chromeheads posers in another thread, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the difference between a "hush-puppy Ralph Lauren poser" and an "I'm a tough-guy bad-ass" poser. To each his own pose, I guess."

First of all as you mention in the above statement I am not out to prove anything. I was merely warning a fellow MOA member of the pitfalls of visiting a certain site. The same way I would warn him of the R1200c's pitting chrome, cracking tail light bezel and clunky transmission. For you to say that I like showing my attitude is a real jump. Believe me I am no bad ass tough guy nor wish to be percieved as one. Ask any MOA member or Chromehead for that matter that has met us and I would venture to say that most of them would say that we are a bunch of nice guys.

"hey, fish, consider this an "aye" vote for filling the doghouse whenever you like."

As far as your vote to fish goes that is exactly my point. Who made Fish judge, jury and executioner? I've never seen a vote on it. What makes his morals in line with everybody else? Is he the new thought police? Can we post anything we want as long as we don't offend fish? How do we know what might set him off? You see Lancew all I'm asking you to do is think for yourself on a few occasions. If you want any type of success in life somtimes you have to stand up and be counted. No need to reply as you probably just don't get it and unfortunately never will. I just wanted to set the record straight after your slanderous post.
Let me know if YOU need any help with the big words as I have a recent edition of Websters I would be happy to send to you free of charge. Your bombastic banter speaks volumes of your condescending nature. I'm done.:brow

[Wolf]

1969,
You are dead wrong. I never asked anyone here to change the rules. I just want to know what they are and exactly what rule I supposedly violated.

"I visited both the chromeheads and jugheads sites. What a difference. I found some pretty useful stuff on the chromeheads site. I found mostly rants and garbage on the jugheads site."

Guess you didn't look to hard. Let me list some of the things you can find on the Jugheads page.

1.) Hammers Links. I doubt you can find a better links page for BMW's or motorcycling in general.

2.) A photo gallery of every BMW bike ever made.

3.) Rumor has it that there is a BMW CD manual floating around with every part BMW has ever made including cars.

4.) Live chat every WEDS. night

5.) A bikes for sale section with color photos

But after listing all that I guess your right all we do is rant and rave. Out of the mouths of babes!
:idea

[fish]

Originally posted by Wolf
Who made Fish judge, jury and executioner?

If that's what you call a forum admin, then the BMW MOA is responsible.

I've never seen a vote on it.

What makes you think there should be a vote?

Perhaps you should consider putting your considerable energy, enthusiasm, and eloquence toward more positive activities than sniping at people, clubs, admins, and forums.

Like all the other admins and moderators here, I am a volunteer. I do this because I enjoy riding, talking, and reading BMWs. Unlike some people, I do not dedicate my time and energy for the sole purpose of making your life miserable.

[1969 R90/2 US]

Wolf,

Please note that I never stated that the jughead forum was "all" rants and garbage. I stated that I "mostly found" rants and garbage. That is a fact. I never even said that there was anything wrong with that. It is just not for what I was looking.
Too much wading through attack posts for my taste.

As you seem to still be hung-up on the fact that this forum is moderated, I will repeat myself:

"The jugheads claim to champion free speech and freedom and deride both the chromeheads and MOA sites for what the jugheads perceive to be a lack thereof. The truth is this: Freedom means that the chromeheads and the BMWMOA have the right to establish websites that cater to their own tastes. No one forces you to join. You jugheads have done exactly the right thing by starting your own forum. Every time you cite "freedom" and suggest that the chromeheads or the BMWMOA should change their rules to fit your desires/tastes, you appear to be quite hypocritical to me."

As far as your "out of the mouths of babes" comment, I am not sure what you mean. I was on dirtbikes at age 8 and have over 30 years riding experience. I have no idea what your definition of a "babe" is, but I am pretty sure sure I aint it.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by fish
Like all the other admins and moderators here, I am a volunteer. I do this because I enjoy riding, talking, and reading BMWs. Unlike some people, I do not dedicate my time and energy for the sole purpose of making your life miserable.

Interesting thread, so I guess I want to chime in here, not in an effort to initiate a public debate (do a search on censoring if you really want to rehash it all), but to explain what the doghouse is about and why threads get booted there.

The moderators really don't want to be babysitters. We've all got other jobs to do and plenty of desire to go ride motorcycles when we're not working. And we all know that riding motorcycles is more fun that moderating a forum.

We want this forum to be a place where anyone that rides a BMW and is an MOA member can feel free to contribute his two cents to discussion about bikes and places they go and camping and rallies and all the other stuff that riding BMWs entails. It is not a place where BMW riders can slag each other's clubs and identities.

We have the doghouse because we don't want to ban people, but we do want to end discussions that are getting ugly. Those discussions get booted to the doghouse and locked, after discussion by the moderators. There is no single person that locks down a thread. If someone is involved in a thread that gets booted, we don't start moderating that individual's posts, mostly because we're all adults here and all the moderators have a life to live. Some things got said, it got ugly, folks started calling each other names and the thread got locked and booted. It happens. We can all move along from there. I used to subscribe to rec.moto and I can tell you where a big flame war goes. Nowhere but to name calling. There will be no name calling on this forum. I'm not a hardass, but this rule will not be violated.

This isn't a publicly owned forum and the MOA, the owner, has a right and legal obligation to operate the forum in a manner that coincides with the values and standards of the organization. By joining this forum, everybody agrees that they'll work within the standards set forth as a condition of membership. The rules are pretty straightforward and are pretty easy to live with. But basically, if you wouldn't say it in person to someone that has six inches on you and 50 lbs. or you wouldn't let someone say it to your grandmother, it doesn't belong here. This is a PG forum. If you want more volatile forums, send me a PM and I'll point you to a curiously strong one.

I think we all can argue that ultimately free speech means you can say anything you want, whenever you want. However, as one of the Supreme Court justices once said, "Free speech doesn't mean you can shout fire in a theatre". I think this points out that there are rules for what is appropriate discussion in different situations. In the context of this forum, the rules are really pretty loose, but we're firm about making sure the ones we do have are kept in mind. Bear in mind that we have nearly 800 threads and not even a handful have made it to the doghouse.

Shoot me a PM if anybody wants to talk about it, I'm happy to discuss it with anyone. However, understand that the rules that are in place are the result of not any one person's views. Those conditions have been determined by the MOA Forum Team and the Board of Directors of the organization as well, before even the first post was allowed here.

But basically, this forum is moderated by a bunch of folks that love BMWs and BMW people. We want to help operate a place where BMW people can talk about their bikes and trips. We have no aspirations of a power trip. We are all happiest when the forum is busy and people are making new friends, learning about new clubs and events and are just generally having a rally experience on their desktop all day long.

We all want to go ride. Like you, the moderators would rather do that than have to start moderating threads.

That is all, have a great day! Post early and post often!

Dave
:burnout

[Wolf]

Fish and 1969,
Let me clear some things up for the both of you. I will try to keep it as simple as possible so you can follow along. First of all Fish I never brought up the "vote" that gem was brought up by your buddy Lancew. My point was that Lancew acted like he was casting a vote. On a democratic board that would be fine but hear it is clear that no one has a vote on anything except the all powerful fish. It was a tongue in cheek comment. Get it now? One more thing fish. Lancew and 1969 came at Kevin910, Myself and the The Jughead board pretty hard yet I do not see their post's in the Doghouse. I guess this is just another case of selective enforcement of the rules. Are the rules the same for everyone? Do you get a pass on breaking any of the rules should you happen to side with fish? I would really like an answer on these specific questions. Finally fish as you have referenced I am not here to make anybody's life miserable. I guess when you refuse to be bullied by someone like you that equates to me making your life miserable. Contrary to your opinion I do have better things to with my time.
1969,
The "babe" comment was in no way a knock on your riding experience. That comment was made to address the insidious remark that www.jugheads.org is nothing but a bunch of rants and raves. Then you go on to say that that is not neccesarily a bad thing. Give me a break man. Just admit you were taking a shot at the board. Your defense is equivalent to me calling you a jerk and then following it up by saying "not that being a jerk is a bad thing". Say what you mean and mean what you say but please stop the back pedaling. Finally the "babe" comment was a shot at your obvious inexperience on the Jughead board. Next time you are going to comment on something do us all a favor and make sure your have you facts straight.

[fish]

How about we just let this go and start over?

Thanks to kbasa for laying it out.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by fish
How about we just let this go and start over?

Thanks to kbasa for laying it out.

In.

You in Wolf?

[Wolf]

I'm fine with that. As long as I can be me.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Wolf
I'm fine with that. As long as I can be me.

Sounds good. Glad to have you on board. You see what we're trying to accomplish with this board? We think it's reasonable to ask for and hope you agree.

Have a great day! :thumb

Dave

[Kevin910]

Fish,

This discussion board is meant for MOA members; when one joins the MOA there are no rules that I am aware of that preclude criticism of other clubs, groups or people. This medium is nothing but an extension of the MOA so how can different rules apply here? For instance, I attended the MOA rally in Charleston and spoke with many other MOA riders and in the course of conversation criticized, ridiculed and belittled a numbers of other MOA members; yet no MOA policeman threw me in the doghouse.... what's your explanation. Furthermore, the rally organizers were openely criticized for the split venue setup; the Airheads had a petition on old beer boxes to protest the rally format; why aren't these critics thrown in the doghouse? Are your subjective opinions of what criticisms are valid or not gospel, or should there be a determination made by the MOA rank and file, after all, any organization is the sum of all its parts not just one man's misguided ideals.

I.e If I pitch a tent at an MOA rally and post a sign that says "Chromeheads suck", is that within my rights as an MOA member?

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Kevin910
Are your subjective opinions of what criticisms are valid or not gospel, or should there be a determination made by the MOA rank and file, after all, any organization is the sum of all its parts not just one man's misguided ideals.


*looks at shiny hook with worm on it and swims up anyway*

Kevin,

Did you read my post above that details how we came up with the guidelines for this board?

Like I explained above, there is no one person that makes these decisions. The MOA Board of Directors is represented on the moderators team, so the MOA itself is part of the decision making process. If you haven't taken a look at the inside cover of your latest copy of ON, you should know that Rob Nye is a director of the organization and also a moderator on this forum. Greg Feeler, another Director, is a SuperModerator here. When we move things to the Doghouse, there is a fair amount of discussion on the moderator's forum about whether the post is appropriate. So far, any thread moved to the Doghouse has been a unanimous decision.

As far as the name calling thing goes, there's a big difference between standing around the campfire (like we do here, in the company of the other 1000 registered users) and calling someone an ass and talking between two people and calling someone an ass.

Do we want to control your conversations and thought processes? No. Do we have guidelines for appropriate behavior here? Yes. You agreed to them when you signed on and I know you to be a man of your word and expect that you would do as you said.

I'm not sure what your objective is here, beyond doing some prett crude trolling. The rules of the board will stand. They're backed by the organization that owns the board and people seem to be fine with them. We don't edit posts, we don't blank out words. Like I said in my previous post in this thread, we expect everybody to treat each other with respect and to act like adults.

Is there nothing going on over on the Jugheads board these days? ;)

Dave

[lorazepam]

"Can't we all just get along?"

~Rodney King

[Kevin910]

aww come-on Dave,

I was hoping for Fish to bite or perhaps getting some kind of socially insightful and thought-provoking response.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Kevin910
aww come-on Dave,

I was hoping for Fish to bite or perhaps getting some kind of socially insightful and thought-provoking response.

Just the facts, man.

http://www.liketelevision.com/web1/classictv/dragnet/dragjoe1.jpg

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910
aww come-on Dave,

I was hoping for Fish to bite or perhaps getting some kind of socially insightful and thought-provoking response.

Sorry Kevin, but that was really stinky bait.

:snore

[Kevin910]

Sorry Fish,

I'll work on something more compelling for my next post.........

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910
Sorry Fish,

I'll work on something more compelling for my next post.........

Do they make Ohlins for Cruisers?

[Kevin910]

Fish,

as a matter of fact, Ohlins does make shocks for the C as well as a numbers of other bikes, see Ohlins (http://www.ohlins.com/mc_product_guide.shtml)

Also there are a number of other useful links available here:
Hammer's Links (http://lostboys.org/~kev/index.htm)

Anything else I might be able to help you with today?

[lorazepam]

did someone slip you a happy pill today Kevin?? Just curious.......

[Kevin910]

Ativan,

Contrary to popular belief, being a cynical, condescending, sarcastic and patronizing SOB and being happy are not mutually exclusive. I can exhibit both behaviors very well, thank you.

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910

as a matter of fact, Ohlins does make shocks for the C as well as a numbers of other bikes, see Ohlins (http://www.ohlins.com/mc_product_guide.shtml)


Followup question...could you tell the difference? :heh (sorry...just funnin' ya).


Anything else I might be able to help you with today?

Actually, my GS could use an oil change...got any plans this afternoon? :brow

[Kevin910]

Fish my friend,

Since we're trading favors, I have a pipe that needs cleaning............

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910
Since we're trading favors, I have a pipe that needs cleaning............

Have you tried this?

http://www.scjohnson.de/images/produkte/drano_granulat.jpg

Your pal,
fish

[kbasa]

:rofl

[Kevin910]

Fish, old pal of mine,

As with many items (including pipe cleaners), sometimes form suspersedes function......

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910
Fish, old pal of mine,

As with many items (including pipe cleaners), sometimes form suspersedes function......

Is she a plumber?

[Kevin910]

Fish, my soul brotha.

One should know there are no longer any stewardesses, they are now flight attendants; there are no longer gas pumpers, they are petroleum distribution engineers; nope, no more waiters or waitresses, they're servers; secretaries------>gone, now administrative assistants; even the now elusive NY squeegee man has become an entrepeneur......and you use the term "plumber"..........you unenlightened Visigoth!, she is, of course, a PMS (pipe manipulation specialist).

[fish]

visigoth? :huh


Plumber:
http://www.musarium.com/WATERGATE/IMAGES/9_colson.jpg

[lorazepam]

Good one fish, I bet Jugheads dont remember their history :p

[beemerron]

Isn't he related to Jeff.

[Kevin910]

Whichever connotation seems to fit............you decide.........

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910
Whichever connotation seems to fit............you decide.........

Speaking of Deep Throat, I saw Bernstein interviewed on TV a couple of months ago, and he said that he's been instructed to uncover the identity of deep throat upon his death (DT's, not CB's). There has been speculation deep throat was a concocted amalgam of various people, but Bernstien insisted that wasn't true. Ah yes...it's all coming back to me.

So about that Drano...did it work for you?

[kbasa]

I tried Drano.

It gave me a tummy ache.

[Kevin910]

so who was Deepthroat? My guess.......Alexander Haig.....once self-appointed (non constitutional) CIC......"'im in charge here"

[kbasa]

I don't know about Haig. He never seemed to be driven by his sense of right and wrong enough to have been Deep Throat and wanting to start the demise of Nixon.

Of course, I could be wrong......

:dunno

[fish]

Originally posted by Kevin910
so who was Deepthroat? My guess.......Alexander Haig.....once self-appointed (non constitutional) CIC......"'im in charge here"

Bernstein said no.

[lorazepam]

I wouldnt be suprised if it ended up being a trusted member of the white house press corps who felt an unusual moral obligation to get the activities stopped and reported without playing their hand and losing their ability to get the information out.

[fish]

I think you're right, lorazepam...and my money's on Helen Thomas.

http://www.virginia.edu/insideuva/2001/24/images/Thomas,Helen.jpg

[lorazepam]

Amazing how the pic of an ugly and now (it is a shame) senile woman can kill this thread :D

[RevWillie]

I think that David Gergen, one of Nixon's main speechwriters, was Deep Throat. I know the family and they said that around the Spring of '73,he was deeply disturbed by Nixon's actions--he eventually quit the White House,bounced around think-tanks and DC media, and ended-up being a advisor to Bill Clinton. Gergen knew a lot of what was going on in the Nixon White House and I believe that he acted on it. I spoke to him about it in 1994, and he somewhat denied it, but given his family's strong sense of personal responsibility for speaking the truth, I think that he was the link to Woodward and Bernstein. He is still alive, you often can see him on TV news shows about politics.
:brow

[BMWRider]

Originally posted by fish
visigoth? :huh


Plumber:
http://www.musarium.com/WATERGATE/IMAGES/9_colson.jpg
:rofl :rofl :rofl

[jgr451]

I am really pleased to see that Fish and Kevin are now pals.
You 2 are now tasked with solving the Palestine-Israel difficulty.You have 2 weeks
Go!!:D

[Kevin910]

JGR451,

damn that's an easy one...... All the Israeli's would have to do is allow Arafat to build casinos on West Bank and Gaza strip........
maybe sell tax free cigarettes to boot......

[jgr451]

Good one Kevin.You must be a Canadian!!:evil