Gauley Bridge motorcycle accidents

[DonS]

A large number of motorcycles crashed at the Gauley Bridge rail road crossing on Highway sixty, east of Charleston, during the MOA rally. There is rubber matting for six or seven feet surrounding the tracks as they cross the road. It is located on a curve and a rise. When wet it is a motorcycle trap. My wife and I went down while going slower than the twenty five mile an hour recommended speed. Our RT was totaled. The road was wet from a light rain. In the coarse of ten minutes three bikes tires went out from under them and they went down. The local sheriff that came in response to our 911 call was tight lipped regarding the crossing other than to say there was nothing his department could do because the design met the West Virginia DOT standards. There was something that he wouldn't say. A young man at our crash told us he had camped and fished near there during the memorial day weekend and a dozen bikes went down when the rain wet the rubber. When we got back to BMW of Grand Rapids for an insurance estimate, I was put in touch with another BMW rider that went down there with the story of yet another Michigan LT that went down and a passengers broken arm. I would like to compile a list of victims of this stupidity. The policemen wouldn't write me an accident report, only a "accident information exchange" . No report, No numbers. As far as the Gauley bridge police department records go it didn't happen.
I am angry and fearful that another motorcyclist will be hurt on this foolish engineering mistake. The rail road owns the crossing and is responsible for it's relative safety. I have owned and ridden motorcycles for over thirty years. I am a careful and responsible rider. We stayed and slowed bikes for over an hour until the rubber dried. At least half the bikes slipped crossing the rubber even at very slow speeds. Please help to compile a list of names and contacts so we can get this situation changed.
I don't know how to proceed but I know that numbers talk. I am no fan of litigation, but sometimes it's what needs to be done to make a large organization take notice of a bad situation. DonS

I have attached a photo to illustrate this danger to motorcyclist

[Fred Jernigan]

Don,

Thanks for the photo, I think. Just looking at it gives me a stomach ache.

I hope you can get that list together. We should send it to the CSX web address that Stacy gave in response on this situation.

Hope to see you around GR someday. I'm taking my bike in this coming Monday evening. Can't afford to fix all of it, but we all pick up a few scars in life, even beautiful motorcycles.

Ride hard, ride safe,

FJ

[beemerron]

As a former Maintanence of Way employee for a railroad I'm somewhat aware of these situations. Over the course of my employment (20years), I attended many railroad crossing saftey inspections. In Michigan, there is a Railroad Saftey division of MDOT that does on site inspections at crossings where this type of incident occurs. It appears from the photo that there are physical constraints i.e. river on one side mountain on the other. Nothing can be done about the angle of the crossing. There are however concrete panel crossings that would improve this situation. Flange fillers that fit between the indide of the rail and the crossing panels are available also. Addtional signage warning of the condtions would help also. Considering the number of incidents that occur here something needs to be done. Since these things cost money, nothing will be done until a stink is raised. The AMA state chapter may be a starting place.

[41107]

been riding for many,many years and never came acrossed one of these crossings.their was no way in approching these tracks from any angle never mind oncoming traffic as in my case.I felt the rear break loose on the wet road but managed.Had myself one heck of a shook-up passenger afterward.I had no idea as to how many riders had their challange at this spot till i saw this post.If I can be of any help let me know. karlheinz

[oldcarkook]

You might consider writing this story up and submitting it along with the photo to AMA. They are headquartered only one state away and AMA will certainly take an interest in this situation.

It raises a number of issues. If nothing else, they should put up a sign leading to the crossing that motorcycles must slow to 10 mph to cross due to conditions or something along those lines.

I always read with interest any "rider down" stories because sharing these experiences and dangers is the best way prevent others from being injured.

The fact that the police were not forthcoming with the information about other accidents is a little curious and I would think that AMA :help might want to look into this further for the benefit of all motorcyclists.

Thanks for the heads up. I know RR tracks at odd angles are extremely dangerous on dry roads, but I don't understand the installation of rubber matting on the aprons. :dunno Wonder why it's not black topped?

[Fred Jernigan]

Lots of folks suggested the AMA route and I'm a little ashamed to admit that I hadn't joined yet - but now I have and I just wrote a note the other day to Eddie James at AMA and gave him the short version of this story referring him to this forum for details.

Like you, I'm hoping someone can make a difference.

I must admit that the rail road crossing warning about 300 feet before these tracks has a small sign that says: " Slippery when Wet". NO LIE.

It's also worth noting that the natural beauty of the waterfall is a distraction, at least it was for me. I understand my obligation to watch the road, but distractions do exist in life and in this case, the falls is between the warning sign and the crossing.

There is a lot to do under the best of conditions to cross this track - for many of us, it was more than we could manage successfully.

OK, I'm done with this. It's on the record, you guys know about it, the AMA knows, my bike is going to be ready Saturday and I'm gonna quit bitchin and start ridin.

See ya,

Freddie :bliss

[kbasa]

Hey Fred,

Nicely done. Let us know if the AMA follows up with you. It would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

dave

[DonS]

Fred I'll take your word for the sign. I never saw one and we looked for such on the way back to Charleston. We were going away from the rally when we went pavement surfing. I was trying to catch a glimpse of the falls as we motored along. It's nice when your passenger says " Did you see the..." and you can at least say "well, sort of". I was hoping the forum would turn up some names of others that went down. I know from conversations many others did , but there not getting my message. I made a phone call to an AMA ambassador's answering machine, but have not gotten a call back. I have written others up the food chain from us street level types, with no response. I am frustrated, but will stay with this in hopes of changing that particular crossing. The concepts from allof you are good. I will coast for a bit and gather information. Some insurance company adjuster is supposed to come and look at my bike. I dread the battle.It's his job to pay me as little as possible and my job to hold out for what I think is a fair settlement. When I know the outcome of my bike I will get my knee looked at. In the mean time we're supposed to work and pay bills. I did take my slash two for a spin the other day. It's funny how my first BMW can take me away from the real world and to a place where everything is just cool. Don

[Montana]

We have rubber apron approaches to RR tracks, but there are little bumbs all over, like the floor mats in an elevator. They get slick with morning frost in the spring, but at least you know there's something to give you traction if you just ride straight and don't touch the throttle or brake.

[oldcarkook]

I honestly don't understand the benefit of a rubber surface on these approaches. It doesn't make sense to me since they are MUCH more vulnerable to plow damage in winter and now as we have all learned are like greased glass in rain.

It seems that the conditions of this particular crossing are such that they contribute to the dangers; a scenic waterfall view to the left pulls your eyes off the road and the right turn sweeper with the tracks crossing at an angle such that you can not cross them at 90 degrees. Is this crossing as bad going out as it is coming in?

:helpI think that this problem rises to a level that demands AMA involvement to prevent others from going down.:help

The apparent limited records of any accidents :banghead is a mystery and only can contribute to the lack of attention and correction of the problem. We could be losing a bike a week at that crossing but if there is no record of that then how do you prove that this is a problem requiring a solution?

As I said above, it seems that at a minimum they should have a large sign in bold letters cautioning vehicles and bikes especially to crawl over this crossing when its wet. I would also expect that accidents here are not limited to bikes, but bikes probably account for the majority of the crashes.
:jawdrop

[Fred Jernigan]

Don,

Cool bike and picture. Hope the knee is ok. I'm hopeful about getting something done. I plan on giving the AMA a couple of weeks to look these over and maybe see then what they think about it. I'm guessing the state of West Virginia has looked this over long before any of us came along. There is just too much local knowledge and information about all the bike accidents for that not to be the case.

Good luck with the insurance adjuster - miserable folks.

Ride safe,

FJ

[DonS]

Hi Fred I got a call today from an AMA ambassador. His name is Randy and he was at the rally. he left on hwy 60 . He crossed on sunny and dry, but remembers the spot. He was very supportive and helpful. He took one crash report from a survivor of the Gauley Bridge crossing at the rally and delivered it to AMA HQ in person on his tour back home. He gave me a phone number and a name to call tomorrow. I am hopeful and will let you know where we stand as it develops

One more view of the site. This is my poor war horse, with her undoing in the background. This about where she stopped sliding. I picked the bike up and pushed her off the road. This fine old 1989 RT has never let me down. Even after using her as a highway surfboard, she still got us home to Northern Michigan. I had given the bike a cosmic paint job that was a big hit at the last couple nationals. The Dupont Crome-illusion paint actually changes color with the angle and the light. Flip out driving lights and a few other custom details always get a crowd around the bike. Now I'm afraid she is totaled.

I think you can see from this view that as we came to the track we were still in a turn and probably leaning a few degrees. The bike just went out from under us. I wish I could play you this slow motion video I have in my head. The detail is vivid... Then after we watched it I could push rewind and stop it just before the crossing, pull off and have some pie and head back to Charleston. Now there's an accessory I would like for my next ride. Don :wow

[Fred Jernigan]

Don,

I had pie at that little joint west of the crossing after I crashed. Nothing like a little comfort food to make the bad crash demons go bye-bye.

I've seen DuPont paint like this and it is cool. I hope you can patch the old girl back together.

Glad to hear about the AMA guy/ambassador as well. I'd like a number I could call and talk to someone as well. Not that it would make a bit of difference but I'd really like to know how many of us went down there that week. I realize it is hard to admit, but I'm sure we were in the company of some decent riders that got the surprise of their riding lives.

Hey, I used to live near Cadillac in the corner of Missaukee county near a little town called Lucas. Where are you? I was there for about 4 years and it was great. I didn't have a bike then but I sure enjoyed living north of Clare.

How is the knee?

Later,

Fred

[Ted]

Posted to the IBMWR list (http://www.ibmwr.org) in May of this year:

Date: Tue, 7 May 2002 10:51:04 -0400
From: "rich roberson" <rroberson1@sc.rr.com>
Subject: BMW: Down in Gauley Brdge, WV

My much-anticipated week of riding with wife and son on his last summer before leaving for the Marine Corps ended prematurely and on a sour note at a CSX rail crossing east of Gauley Bridge, WV. It was misting rain, and the crossing is on an upgrade and curve leaving town. I was going only about 35-40 and could not view the actual crossing until I was almost upon it because of the upgrade. It was at a nasty angle to the road, and squaring up to it would have put me toward oncoming traffic, so I leveled the bike and tried not to accelerate or decelerate as I crossed. As soon as I reached the track, the rearend shot out, I lowsided and found myself sliding down the road next to my wife and the bike. Broken footpeg, ruined left side w/s, faring, exhaust system, etc. Bike slid off the road into gravel shoulder. Aerostich did its job, as did my wife's bmw pants and firstgear jacket. Sore place at the bottom of my left rib is my only problem, wife not quite as lucky, thinks she may have cracked a rib....lots of pain and "clicking" sensation when she moves. SHe apparently hit face first, as her full-face HJC has an abraded faceshield and ding just over the left eye. Knee worn almost thru on my roadcrafter, but absolutely no pain in that area...hats off to Aerostich...

Upon revisiting the scene and talking with the policeman who responded, I realized that the crossing had no ties or concrete, with which I am familiar, but some sort of extremely slippery rubber compound between the rails....the officer said there are 6-8 motorcycle accidents on that crossing each riding season, all due to wet weather...his superior told me this morning that he has seen 5-7 in one day in the rain.., and that he had written CSX and asked them to do something to no avail...

Anyway, I am thankful nobody was seriously hurt, and mad as hell that that crossing with that sort of track record still exists there...guess I will have to see if railroads indeed spend millions in defense and nothing in tribute, or whatever..

Rich Roberson
Columbia, SC
95 K100RS (temporarily c/o Holt BMW)
'78 R100RS (main ride once again)

[Beemerdude]

Hi, My wife and I are the AMA Field Reps that had the booth at the rally. As Don said, we did turn one report in at Pickerington on our way to Vintage Motorcycle Days.

For those of you that would like to talk to someone with the AMA about this problem I can provide you with a phone number and a couple of names.

AMA phone #:1-800-JOIN (800-262-5646) ask for Cathy Brown in the Government Relations Department.

I would also encourage those of you who are not AMA members to become AMA members.

2 Wheels 1 Voice!

[Equimedic]

I was struck by a road rager last year. The local police and prosecutor's office didn't take the case all that seriously, reminding me that I had insurance. I asked the AMA to help out and got nothing! Don't count on the AMA to assist in anything except cases that have high news media interest!

Two wheels, NO voice.

[Beemerdude]

1. Do you know who to contact within the AMA?
2. Are you an AMA member?

[Equimedic]

1. Bill Kresnak.

2. Yes.

[Equimedic]

Sorry, I didn't read your question. Bill Kresnak is the one who responded to me, advising me to contact an attorney.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by equimedic
Sorry, I didn't read your question. Bill Kresnak is the one who responded to me, advising me to contact an attorney.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't expect an organization that's involved in legislative activity to have an interest in your very unfortunate incident. Nor would I expect the NRA to be involved in a shooting accident.

What happened with your case? What happened here? It sounds like there's a story in here.

[Equimedic]

Originally posted by KBasa
For what it's worth, I wouldn't expect an organization that's involved in legislative activity to have an interest in your very unfortunate incident.

The AMA does involve itself in high profile, news worthy cases involving crashes where the criminal justice system fails to treat motorcyclists seriously. Had I died in this crash, I'm sure the AMA would have taken an interest in it, but I didn't.

The short story is that a motorist struck me while I was riding to work. He then left the scene of the crash. The police didn't want to investigate the crash, even though there was a witness. Several days later, I was able to find the guy, by simple detective work. I notified the police of his license number. It took a month of calling the police investigator and finally going to Internal Affairs before the investigator would even interview me. He refused to look at the bike or talk to the witness. I was able to identify the guy out of a photo lineup. Under pressure the investigator did charge the guy. The prosecutor failed to consider the case seriously. He didn't subpoena me, the cop, or the witness. I found out when the case was going to trial by checking the Internet. Fortunately, the cop was in court for another case. The prosecutor did a bad job and the judge found the guy innocent even though the guy admitted to the crime, in court. The judge clearly showed a bias against motorcyclists.

I certainly think this case meets the standards of the cases the AMA routinely gets involved in--except one: there was no news media coverage. I do have transcripts of the trial and other paperwork.

[DonS]

First of all, let me come to the defense of the AMA. Not only are they on the case but things are happening fast! The contact I made was handled professionally and with serious intensity. Keep watching this post for details but a meeting is in the works, that involves The Maintenance Engineer and several officials of the CSX Railroad along with a WVDOT representative.

WVDOT has been contacted about this crossing by a number of people, including the mayor of Gauley Bridge. The meeting had been planned previously, but the AMA has been in touch with the West Virginia DOT (Department of Transportation), District 9 office. The District Engineer and the maintenance Engineer from CSK. They are in the loop and making noise. The AMA said they will forward me via email the progress.

My hat is off to Mr. Imre F. Szauter Legislative Affairs Specialist
AMA Government Relations Department American Motorcyclist Association.

Keep paying those dues boys. There's somebody working for us.


DONS

[SpartanTim]

On Wednesday morning, I came upon the railroad crossing just after the rain had stopped. I was not traveling fast, and hit the brakes hard. Thank God for ABS. I slowed almost to a stop, squared myself to the tracks, and crossed. Then I pulled off to catch my breath. My passenger and I both knew we were very close to a crash. I thought it was just me -- that I was not being cautious enough. Reading this post makes me feel better that I was not the only one, and also that this group may have some influence over rectifying this dangerous situation.

[Unregistered]

I too was bitten by the wet tracks, riding a 650gs with happy trail panniers. The right pannier took the brunt of my slide with some damage to the right hanlebar weight, I was ok with a torn rainsuit, however, a couple on a Harley went down and broke the passagers ankle, or at least she thought it was broken. It is a bad piece of crossing, I don't know how I could have avoid the spill not being familar with the road.

[Beemerdude]

After reading about and seeing the crossing in WV, I started looking at the RRxings in our area of Iowa. I did find one in the town I live in. and for some reason it is at the crest of a hill and angles across the ciy street at approx 45 degrees. I don't ride my motor in town except to get out of town, but I will start paying more attention.

I'm glad to hear that the AMA got on the WV. RRxsing issue.

[Fred Jernigan]

I spoke with a very nice woman at the AMA this week and registered my concerns about this crossing. I'm happy to see the traffic about this issue and recent comments about AMA involvement. I just received my membership package for the AMA prompted by this experience and my decision that if I'm gonna whine I better line up with some professionals. Not to imply that the AMA is a bunch of whinners - no wait, that is exactly what I want here. I want loud and persistent whinning so that the bureaurcrats get tired and do something before there are more broken bones, not to mention pride. Waaaaa - let's hear it.

[Beemerdude]

Ya I think everyone's heard these old addages:

There is strength in numbers.

And a personal favorite:

We can hang together or we can hang separately.

[Unregistered]

You beemer riders seem to think you started something here. Actually, as the one person admitted to (above), this has been brought to the attention of our local officials and they have been talking about solving it, way before you guys showed up for your rally. As with any bureaucracy (in any state), it takes time and money to solve the problem. We've got it under control and really don't need the meddling. I'm sure I can find dangerous roads in your states.

In the meantime, the crossings are well marked, and are crossed successfully everyday, rain or shine.

[kioolt]

I live in Maryland and am sure that there is a dangerous road situation somewhere in the state. If anybody from any state would like to get something done about correcting it I have no objection. I won't consider it meddling.

[DonS]

your patience is hardly to be complimented. If your doing such a bang up job dealing with your system and everything is "under control", then why is my motorcycle totaled and my knee throbbing. I mentioned the near 70 thousand miles on my current bike without an accident. Not to mention the 10 bikes before it. I sure have been one lucky incompetent rider up till now. Your tolerance of this obvious and dangerous situation is a sad commentary. If we did have a similar situation in my state I'm here to tell you I would welcome all the "meddling" real motorcyclist could muster, no matter where they came from. DonS

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Unregistered
You beemer riders seem to think you started something here. Actually, as the one person admitted to (above), this has been brought to the attention of our local officials and they have been talking about solving it, way before you guys showed up for your rally. As with any bureaucracy (in any state), it takes time and money to solve the problem. We've got it under control and really don't need the meddling. I'm sure I can find dangerous roads in your states.

In the meantime, the crossings are well marked, and are crossed successfully everyday, rain or shine.

Um. I bet we could get this done a lot faster if we all coordinated. Better for you, better for us. Are you guys working with the AMA at all? Perhaps they can help you too. Are there contacts on your side the AMA can coordinate with?

Many hands lighten the load and all....

:dunno

[Fred Jernigan]

Grow some and sign your name.

[beemerron]

You beemer riders seem to think you started something here. Actually, as the one person admitted to (above), this has been brought to the attention of our local officials and they have been talking about solving it, way before you guys showed up for your rally. As with any bureaucracy (in any state), it takes time and money to solve the problem. We've got it under control and really don't need the meddling. I'm sure I can find dangerous roads in your states.

"There is more stupidity than hydrogen in the universe, and it has a longer shelf life."
- Frank Zappa

[MarkF]

Originally posted by Unregistered
As with any bureaucracy (in any state), it takes time and money to solve the problem. We've got it under control and really don't need the meddling.

Good job! You should be proud of your efforts and the results.

MarkF

[Unregistered]

I also went down on those tracks as did the fellow behind me. His bike hit me while I was on the ground and I spent [4] days in two hospitals..broken bones and a lacerated liver. New GT was damaged and cost $$ to get it home. Three weeks later I'm still hurting. If I can do something to prevent others from accidents on this trap please let me know.

[Unregistered]

Last entry - Gauley Bridge "I also went down"
was from
John Colleton
The Lonesome Weirdos

[DonS]

Hi John Get an email address to me when you get a chance.
Thanks, DonS

[Beemerdude]

To Dave Swider:

See page 2 post #7

[kbasa]

Originally posted by beemerdude2001
To Dave Swider:

See page 2 post #7

That's very, very encouraging. Nothing succeeds like cooperation does it?

:thumb

I was thinking about this whole thing yesterday afternoon. I was driving (yes, in the Miata, I had a lot of stuff to bring) and saw a warning sign made specifically for motorcycles for some railroad tracks . It had a picture of a motorcycle on the top part of the sign and a picture of railroad tracks crossing the road at a pretty steep angle. I think it's enough to at least get you warned of the crossing's issues. It was on a big yellow diamond shaped warning sign.

I thought about Gaulley Bridge and thought that if they'd had a big sign up like this, it probably would have helped. It's cheaper than trying to move the tracks or something.

I wish I'd taken a picture of it. It was on Hwy. 1 between Half Moon Bay and Santa Cruz.

dave

[stevecanzona]

I was one of the unfortunate few who crashed on the tracks on Hwy. 60 just outside of Gauley Bridge. I was in the lead of a small group of bikes. We had been to Fayetteville to visit the New River Gorge bridge and were on our way back to the rally. Our group had crossed these tracks on the way out so we knew to take it easy. The difference on the return trip was the rain. I was maybe going 20 mph. As soon as my front wheel contacted the rubber apron, I went down. I was'nt braking and was only leaning sightly. It happened so fast it was as if someone had just slapped me over! I slid several feet but at least I stayed in my lane and did'nt cross the centerline into oncoming traffic. The rest of my group slowed to a crawl and made it over the tracks but a K1200 rider still almost lost it.
I got banged and bruised but thankfully no serious injury. The right side of my R1150RT was scraped from front to back. My rain suit is history. With a little help from my friends I was able to get back on the road and return to the rally. All my damage is now repaired but it cost me several hundred bucks.
I'm a veteran law enforcement officer and I have investigated hundreds of accidents. I have been riding motorcycles for 37 years and I've never encountered anything like this. My crash happened on Sat. afternoon (7/12/03). I can't believe no one from the county or state posted any warnings at this crossing once it became apparent that bikes were crashing.

[MarkF]

Originally posted by stevecanzona
I'm a veteran law enforcement officer and I have investigated hundreds of accidents. I have been riding motorcycles for 37 years and I've never encountered anything like this. My crash happened on Sat. afternoon (7/12/03). I can't believe no one from the county or state posted any warnings at this crossing once it became apparent that bikes were crashing.

Did you get a ticket?

MarkF

[DonS]

Originally posted by stevecanzona
I was maybe going 20 mph. As soon as my front wheel contacted the rubber apron, I went down. I was'nt braking and was only leaning sightly. It happened so fast it was as if someone had just slapped me over! .................. My crash happened on Sat. afternoon (7/12/03). I can't believe no one from the county or state posted any warnings at this crossing once it became apparent that bikes were crashing.

My wife and I went down at 2:20 that afternoon. I don't know if we were before you or after, but either way the cop on the scene had seen bike after bike go down and did nothing. I'm mad, There's no excuse for him not taking some action to stop you or me from going down.

The other thing that sticks in my head is the split second nature of this crash. Like your saying above. We were just slapped over.
I never got a chance to be a good rider or a bad rider. I was doing 25 mph or less and maybe 5 degrees off straight up. I was busy apologizing to my wife for falling and making sure we weren't broken, but as soon as I had the bike up and off the road. I limped back to the tracks to see what "I" had done. I remember yelling something I shouldn't write in this forum. The sheer stupidity of the crossing design was overwhelming.

I thought my anger would lessen with weeks passing, but like my abused knee, I'm still sore... DonS

[Pantana]

I also went down at the tracks at Gauley Bridge. Two Hospitals, broken ribs, and other bones inmy back, and lacerated liver...when the fellow behind me went downand his bike hit me. My new GT trucked home $$, and now in the shop for $2600 in repairs. I'm still sore as hell. anything I can do to help prevent any more accidents there, I'll do. Phone is 413-567-9195

John Colleton
The Lonesome Weirdos

[DDHR1150RT]

First off,
I feel for all of you who have been bitten by the rediculous R/R Crossing at Gauley Bridge WV. and I hope that all of you recover to full health and spirits. Remember, machinery can be rebuilt or replaced, a life lost cannot.
I will add my support to the cause of this R/R crossing problem and may I state that throughout all my years of travel among this and other countries, be it on a motorcycle or in a car, I have never seen such an obvious engineering mistake as the use of this rubberized material for a R/R Crossing. But alas, the Gauley Bridge R/R location is not the only use of such engineering marvelry in WV. I too came close to kissing the pavement while crossing another R/R location on RT.60. This R/R crossing is near the town of Rainelle and it is located close to the RC cola distribution center as one heads East out of Rainelle on RT.60. Again, it was raining (when didn't it?) and the approach of the tracks through a curve leaves little room, and little time, to cross at a safe angle for a motorcycle. Again, NO signs are posted to warn of the danger of these tracks and I, by the blessings of an unseen power, barely made it through this crossing without crashing. As luck would have it, I was forced to recover this sudden, and without warning, surprise by going well over the double yellow line of the oncoming lane (I thank God that no vehicles were approaching!). In what could have been a downfall for me and the end of my trip became a mixed blessing as I quickly regained control of the bike and limped into town as my heart pounded heavy in my throat and my charge indicator light glared brightly in my eyes. Although I didn't go down at the crossing near Rainelle and my bike never made it to the rally due to a reoccuring charge problem, I wonder how many others may have been bitten by this R/R location? Upon reading all the posts to this thread it is my opinion that this thread be open to anyone who has been forced off a Railroad crossing in any State or Country due to the use of such a profound material as this rubberized stuff for railroad crossings. The use of this material is certain death to motorcycles and may be found throughout the world. If the AMA or any other organization, or group, can help in eliminating this materials usage, and save the hardship, or life, of a motorcylist by doing so, I say more power to them! And to the anonymous guest who so blatantly chastised motorcyclists in general as needing to "Learn to ride"over railroad tracks I say to you sir or madam; come forward and face the combined forces of motrocyclists with your challenge. Many of us have been riding for years, if not decades, and have faced many a hazard with applomb. Your baltant disregard for motorcyclists "meddling" in this case only assists in adding to the already tremendous task of motorcycle safety and acknowledges your lack of understanding motorcyclists needs. I challenge you to come forth and substantiate your "claim" of attending to this problem. Come forth and help in saving lives not in ruining them.

Signed,
Dwayne D. Hudson
2002 R1150RT. BMWMOGA, BMWMOA

[kbasa]

Here in SF, the local bicycle clubs and motorcycle clubs got together and got a law passed that requires steel plates placed in the road to have a grippy substance coating them.

Perhaps some similar move can be enacted to help with railroad crossings.

:dunno.

[Fritzc]

Originally posted by Pantana
I also went down at the tracks at Gauley Bridge. Two Hospitals, broken ribs, and other bones inmy back, and lacerated liver...when the fellow behind me went downand his bike hit me. My new GT trucked home $$, and now in the shop for $2600 in repairs. I'm still sore as hell. anything I can do to help prevent any more accidents there, I'll do. Phone is 413-567-9195

John Colleton
The Lonesome Weirdos

John,
Thanks to your buddies who were loading your bike into a Uhaul,and a sign saying breakfast buffet (wrong day) I did not go down that Friday morning. I did slide around somewhat but at 20 MPH I was able to keep control. Normally I would have been at 40 MPH on that crossing. Too bad everyone did not have advanced warning like I did.

[Ted]

As with any bureaucracy (in any state), it takes time and money to solve the problem

Or a good Lawsuit. I would urge all of you who had accidents at that intersection to start filing FOIA requests with state and local government (here (http://sundaygazettemail.com/section/Series/Project+Access) is a great series on FOIA and WV, and here (http://www.herald-mail.com/FOI/guidelines/wva.phtml) is a simple "how to".) It is simple and not only might the results be quite eye-opening, the flood of requests might do more to encourage results than simply sitting back and waiting for someone, anyone to do something.

[Ted]

OK, a short bit of research has produced some startling results.

The Crossing Conundrum

There is ample evidence that the crossing in question is hazardous to motorcycles. The town of Gauley Bridge has reported 17 motorcycle accidents from June 4, 2001 to July 12, 2003 - of note, 13 of the 17 accidents noted rainy weather, and further there has been not *a single* report of a car accident at the crossing over that same period. Of further note, the Town only reports accidents involving ambulance transport and/or where the motorcycle was so damaged to require towing. A town official estimates "at least twice as many [unreported] motorcycle accidents" over the same period. The West Virginia State Police have reported an additional 6 motorcycle accidents from 2002 to current, and the County Police have reported two additional for this current year.

The Problem

CSX Railroad is responsible for putting down the tracks over the road, and West Virginia Department of Highways (DoH) is responsible for building the road around/over the tracks. The Town of Gauley Bridge has been trying to have the crossing redesigned since 1995 and in early July of this year sent a detailed letter to DoH outlining the particular hazards to Motorcyclists of the crossing and requesting immediate repair or redesign (copy of letter on the way and will be reproduced once received.) The Charleston Gazette ran a lengthy story on July 27, 2003 titled "Motorcyclists Beware U.S. 60 Curve, Tracks, Rain Cause Wrecks" outlining many of the concerns cited in the letter.

The problem is that neither CSX nor DoH will take responsibility for the hazardous crossing, each pointing to the other as the one responsible for the hazardous condition and responsible for redesigning or making the crossing safe. According to a Gauley Bridge Town Official, the problem seems to be the rubber surrounding the tracks and the sharp curve over those pads – it becomes "incredibly slick" during rain, a hazardous condition that could be quickly lessened by replacing the rubber with concrete (something the town has apparently been unsuccessfully pleading with DoH to do since 1995.) In 2001 a motorcyclist who became a quadriplegic as a result of an accident at the crossing sued DoH but the suit was apparently (and unfortunately) settled before going to trial.

Currently

The Town of Gauley Bridge is doing everything they can to urge CSX and DoH to settle their differences and redesign the crossing. The previously mentioned letter will hopefully spur some action, and I believe the time is ripe for a national, multi-brand organization (i.e. the AMA) to begin the process of bringing nationwide attention to this unique situation and working hard within the West Virginia Legislature and Governor’s Office to immediately repair or replace this intersection. Should the AMA not hop on this I would be more than happy to coordinate such a campaign within the BMW MOA.

For those who have had accidents at this crossing I would urge you to consult an Attorney with this information and explore legal remedies.

[Fred Jernigan]

You go Ted. Little research my foot, you nailed it. I'm seeing an honorary degree in Library Science or something like that.

Thanks for all the information.

Fred

[Visian]

Originally posted by Fred Jernigan
You go Ted. Little research my foot, you nailed it. I'm seeing an honorary degree in Library Science or something like that.


That's Esquire Ted, my friend. As in the lawyer from HELL! :mad

Ted -- your last post needs to go on your Rants page.

Ian

[DonS]

Wow, what a friend to have! You are a light sir in a world full of Lucas electric's. This is quality information an I will make use of it.
I have not heard back from the AMA concerning the meeting I was made aware of. Your efforts and support is inspiring. This needs to be rectified and I agree that legal action is what makes a entity like CSX take notice. I will make an inquiry and see where that takes me. It's just not the path I would normally travel.
Like Arlo sang " I don't want a nickel, just wanna ride my motor sickle, and I don't wanna die... just wanna ride my motor- cye...cul. DonS

[TheSuperScoot]

You know, I hate to encourage lawyers, but it seems that this is a textbook example of why multi-million dollar lawsuits are necessary. Obviously the nitwits at the railroad and the DofH are prepared to say "It's the other guy's responsibility" until some trial lawyer siphons a hefty sum from their bank account. Just a damn shame that somebody gets hurt.

I'm going to suggest that we find as many sites as possible and post "DO NOT VISIT THIS AREA" notices. Usually the local businesses are able to bring a good deal of pressure on local and state officials. As for the railroad....sue the bastards, CSX is one of the most obnoxious, public-be-damned companies in America.

Terry

[MarkF]

Originally posted by TheSuperScoot

I'm going to suggest that we find as many sites as possible and post "DO NOT VISIT THIS AREA" notices. Usually the local businesses are able to bring a good deal of pressure on local and state officials. As for the railroad....sue the bastards, CSX is one of the most obnoxious, public-be-damned companies in America.

Terry

Imagine if the MOA had decided to back out of the Almost Heaven Rally because of this crossing. You think anyone would have cared? Of course not! The businesses that make money at rallies are always surprised, they never anticipate the windfall profit a huge BMW rally brings.

MarkF

[Ted]

Two quick points-

The Town of Gauley Bridge has been trying for the better part of eight years to have this crossing redesigned, they know they are getting a bad reputation among motorcyclists (not to mention the draw on resources attending to accidents.) They want this fixed in the worse way, but as a (very) small town they unfortunately have not yet had the clout to have DoH and CSX resolve their differences and redesign the crossing. Hopefully the letter will be sufficiently enlightening to get the ball rolling. And to the anonymous poster who urged folks to "stay out", I was told that the town can use as much constructive help as it can get.

Second, the BMW MOA Rally Site Selection Team has put together a fantastic collection of materials to send to prospective Rally sites. Included in the material are letters from Chiefs of Police lauding BMW Riders for being well-behaved and responsible, Mayors and other Elected Officials thanking the BMW MOA and citing estimates of the 7-figure amounts that BMW MOA brings to town, and even letters from local merchants thanking BMW MOA and asking the Organization to return. The Town of Charleston was well aware of the huge revenue that BMW MOA would bring - I know because I tagged along on the initial site visit and was simply bowled over by the lengths that the Mayor's Office and the Convention Bureau went to ensure that the BMW MOA chose Charleston.

Moving forward I think it best to have all AMA members take this information and contact their AMA Field Rep with a cc: to the AMA Director of State Affairs (find the contact info here (http://www.amadirectlink.com/email.asp)) asking them to help remedy the situation. And again, those who have accidents should immediately consult an Attorney (there are folks like Tom McGrath (http://motorcyclevirginia.com/) who specifically represent Motorcycle Riders.)

[zigamo]

"There is always something to be learned"

On 60 I stopped at a gas station to wait for some riding buddies to catch up. As I was fueling up I caught them going by and waved them down. As we were all pulling out, one of the locals also filling up warned us of the Gauley bridge RR crossing and mentioned that bikes were going down. Told us to BE CAREFUL.
GO SLOW!
I gota hand it to this Man for stepping up and warning a few strangers obviously from out of town about the impending danger ahead. If only more people like that rode Beemers, We all would be riding safer.
As a lifelong Motorcycle rider, but new to the Bmw world
It seems to pay off to stop and meet the locals A lesson I sure learned this trip.
I will surely ask rather than be told next time.
I would hate to see some very nice local people and their businesses suffer because we as riders did not look out for each other. Its pathetic that so many went down. Its seems we were not taking care of our own.

Did anyone ever think to throw down a flare or some kind of warning for the next guy. Did anyone ask the police to do the same. If not, why not. You don't need permission to put a flare or
sign out. If one local guy can tell me that the road is bad ahead then for God sakes why can't we keep an eye out for each other.
That is inexcusable!

If I had found out that there were others that went down before
me, I would be livid that no warning was posted, by local law enforcement or other rally riders.


LOOKOUT FOR EACH OTHER and SPEAKOUT TO EACH OTHER!

[DonS]

I can tell you that we stayed at the site until the track rubber dried up. About an hour and a half. We were hurting, but stood next to the road and waved to all approaching bikes to slow down. Another guy ( Willie from Grand Rapids MI.on an LT) burned up all the flares he had.

A big part of my anger is that the cop wouldn't do anything. Yes I ranted about signs and he kept coming back with there was nothing he could do, blaming the rail road. I told him he should stay there and do what we were doing, but another bike went down, he left us and I never saw him again.

I was half in shock and sore from a crash, several states away from home and trying to console my battered wife. I was a victim at that point and needed to get to some comfort. I don't normally carry a sheet of plywood and a can of orange spray paint on a motorcycle trip and take exception to your comments about others efforts. I did limp back to the convention center and tell my story to the "Communications" desk as "other" victims of the crash did. My thought was that they should announce this to all the people in the center at the time as a warning. NO ANNOUNCEMENT WAS MADE...

[Unregistered]

Don S - can't seem to contact you through the email icon at you message, or at the mmbers list. My email is colleton@universalplastics.com.

John Colleton

Also went down at the Gauley Bridge RR crossing.

[Unregistered]

I emailed Imre Szauter of the AMA about the accidents here, and his last email says that the crossing will be "totally rehabilitated" in under 90 days. with additional signs posted as well. He's been very helpfull, made me glad I've been an AMA member for years.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Unregistered
I emailed Imre Szauter of the AMA about the accidents here, and his last email says that the crossing will be "totally rehabilitated" in under 90 days. with additional signs posted as well. He's been very helpfull, made me glad I've been an AMA member for years.

:clap :clap :clap

That's awesome! Who are you?

[Unregistered]

Mike Bagby
Chicago IL
'96 R850R
dcby99@yahoo.com

.....and glad to help.

[kbasa]

Originally posted by Unregistered
Mike Bagby
Chicago IL
'96 R850R
dcby99@yahoo.com

.....and glad to help.

Have you considered registering?

:stick

[DonS]

This is Mr.Imre F. Szauter's of the AMA email to me today.
I look at this as a victory for motorcyclist everywhere.

Dear Mr. Shapton: ( DonS )

Here is an update on the situation with the dangerous railroad crossing on Route 60 near Gauley Bridge, WV.

I first spoke with the WVDOT Maintenance Engineer on Friday, July 25. I contacted him this morning for an update; in addition to his e-mail response (attached below), he called me a few minutes ago to share additional information.

He indicated the railroad crossing on-site July 25 meeting convinced all parties involved of the dangers posed by this crossing to motorcyclists. He told me he verbally committed to CSX that WVDOT would expedite funding to totally rehabilitate the crossing. The materials to complete the work are nearby (less than 100 miles away) and the signed contract was finalized on Monday, August 4th. He said the project should be complete within 90 to 120 days, although it could be completed within 60 days if everything goes well.


I’ll keep you posted with any additional updates I receive.

Sincerely,

Mr. Imre F. Szauter

Legislative Affairs Specialist

American Motorcyclist Association

Government Relations Department

13515 Yarmouth Drive

Pickerington, OH 43147

----------

E-mail received at 10:08 A.M. Friday, August 8, 2003 from the WVDOT Maintenance Engineer in charge of Route 60 Gauley Bridge railroad crossing situation:



We had a site meeting on the 25th of July with CSX and WVDOT, DOH. The DOH milled a portion of the asphalt away from the crossing and repaved the approaches to the crossing. CSX agreed to enter into an agreement with the DOH to replace the existing rubber crossing surface with a concrete surface with a brushed finish. It is the intention of the railroad and the DOT to have this work completed within the next 3 - 4 months. I have requested the funding for the surface as part of a betterment program which I handle and have a signed agreement from CSX already in place. The railroad is in the process of ordering all the necessary material to complete the upgrade and is keeping me abreast of their progress. This will be a total rehab of the crossing. Also the DOT is installing some additional signing for this crossing.



I will have to check with CSX to obtain a spoke person for your members to correspond with.



I will notify you prior to the start date of the upgrade.

[Ted]

As promised, here is the letter sent by the Town of Gauley Bridge on July 9, 2003 (click for full-sized copy.)

http://www.verrill.com/moto/gauley/neal-to-perry-letter-07-09t.jpg (http://www.verrill.com/moto/gauley/neal-to-perry-letter-07-09b.jpg)

Looks like the letter from the town (which was sent BTW with a thick stack of accident reports and the Charleston-Gazette Story) has yileded some results and I am happy to see the AMA is active in ensuring that the problem is fixed.

[kbasa]

Makes me want to write the mayor a thank you note.

That's government actually making something happen.

[johncolleton]

Great news, and well done. I'm still feeling sore, and my bike is still in the shop...and I'm just starting to find out about all the deductibles on various medical and vehicle insurances. But I'm glad that due to your efforts other riders won't go through the same thing due to that RR crossing.

John Colleton

[BradfordBenn]

Originally posted by Ted
And again, those who have accidents should immediately consult an Attorney (there are folks like Tom McGrath (http://motorcyclevirginia.com/) who specifically represent Motorcycle Riders.)

I agree with Ted about this 100%. I was involved in a car/bicycle crash when I was 16, I was on the bicycle. The case was settled out of court by my insurance company and I received more than the amount to cover my loss (a $700 bike) the hospital bills and the saved the rest for 10 years to make a downpayment on a house. Yes, the money helps.

However I also can tell you when it is going to rain by how my knees feel as a result of the accident. People can hear me walking down the hall by the popping of my left ankle on each step. By settling out of court, I have no more recourse for the pain that started when I was 17. If we had been a little more agressive, I would have seen an orthopedist that week and some of this future pain could have been dealt with, either surgically or monetarily. Attorneys who specialize in personal injury have experience in dealing with these cases as well as resources to help investigate items (much like SUPER TED) did.

I now have a list of what to do in case of accidents, all sorts, courtesy of my attorney. Sometimes even doing the small thing like faxing him that there was a mishap protects for the future. I found this part out when my wife got hit and run in her truck. The police did not want to take a statement, but the one we sent to my attorney that day was deemed admissable.

All of this aside, we all need to be careful out there. Money is cheap, people are expensive.

-=Brad

[jgr451]

"Money is cheap, people are expensive"


said Bradford Benn,in a moment of lucidity which proves for once and all that,while opposable thumbs are really good,attorneys(we call them lawyers here you all,eh) are really good people to know too,when something goes wrong.

I have told my friend Don S who was the first poster,and I tell the rest of you who were injured,to see a lawyer who works in West Virginia really soon.All this talk is good ventilation and provides some street proofing;but do not overlook that this is not the first time there have been serious problems at that crossing.

All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing(but talk).

From Lawyer,Esq. Going rallying in the mountains this week,gbw and the creek don't rise.

[Ted]

Just talked with the good folks in the Town of Gauley Bridge - the Motorcycle-specific warning signs went up at the crossing last Friday (but unfortunately the town responded to two more bikes down on Sunday.)

This can't happen soon enough...

[Beemerdude]

I have a question for those of you who have posted on this forum. My wife and I are AMA Field Reps in Iowa.
Do you folks mind if I print some of these replies out and use them at AMA membership booths?

Sometimes people don't believe some of the things that can be done by a strong organization with knowledegable members.

[Fred Jernigan]

Sounds good to me. Good luck with it.

[kbasa]

You can print mine, but you probably want to get permission from folks to print theirs.

[Beemerdude]

Thanks Fred and KBASA. I'm going to hold out a few more days before doing print outs in hopes of getting some more permissions. Thanks Again.

Randy and Lois Randall AMA Ambassador #778

[lancew]

Randy,

I'm not a lawyer, but this is a public forum (no password needed to view). I think anything posted here would probably be okay to use, as long as you black out personal info like names, screen names, phone numbers, and other specifics. After all, anybody posting ALREADY knows that it's being read by a bunch of biker whackos anyhow... it's a great case study in problem resolution, IMHO, and has been a really useful lesson as it unfolded.

just my .02, keep up the good work

[Beemerdude]

Thanks to all who have posted in this forum. My wife and I have a couple more events in September and October that these will be good at.

Ride Safe, but enjoy!
Randy

[DonS]

I have been away from this forum for a bit. Work and family have had their demands. I am drawn back by getting my MOA news yesterday and finding a letter in "Rider-to-rider" from two of the fine Canadian riders who helped my wife and I get upright. I would encourage all to read Greg and Mike's note and respond to Greg.
These guys were great. Mike was the first face we saw as we scrambled to the side of the road. He helped pick up broken parts and made sure we didn't need an ambulance. He and his friends got us back to Charleston. He and his pals were the essence of the brotherhood of motorcyclist and we were honored to have them come to our aid. Don

[UberXY]

I wrote to my friend, WV state Senator Larry Rowe, concerning the railroad crossing. He consulted with the highway people and they responded, in part, with this:

They have installed special warning signs supplemented by plaques notifying cyclists that the crossing is slippery when wet. They milled the surface and repaired it to make the transition as smooth as possible.

Steve

[beemerron]

Glad to read that WVDOT completed it's portion of the repairs.
Now let's if the Railroad keeps to it's timetable, as it seldom does.

[Unregistered]

Originally posted by Ted
OK, a short bit of research has produced some startling results.

The Crossing Conundrum

There is ample evidence that the crossing in question is hazardous to motorcycles. The town of Gauley Bridge has reported 17 motorcycle accidents from June 4, 2001 to July 12, 2003 - of note, 13 of the 17 accidents noted rainy weather, and further there has been not *a single* report of a car accident at the crossing over that same period. Of further note, the Town only reports accidents involving ambulance transport and/or where the motorcycle was so damaged to require towing. A town official estimates "at least twice as many [unreported] motorcycle accidents" over the same period. The West Virginia State Police have reported an additional 6 motorcycle accidents from 2002 to current, and the County Police have reported two additional for this current year.

The Problem

CSX Railroad is responsible for putting down the tracks over the road, and West Virginia Department of Highways (DoH) is responsible for building the road around/over the tracks. The Town of Gauley Bridge has been trying to have the crossing redesigned since 1995 and in early July of this year sent a detailed letter to DoH outlining the particular hazards to Motorcyclists of the crossing and requesting immediate repair or redesign (copy of letter on the way and will be reproduced once received.) The Charleston Gazette ran a lengthy story on July 27, 2003 titled "Motorcyclists Beware U.S. 60 Curve, Tracks, Rain Cause Wrecks" outlining many of the concerns cited in the letter.

The problem is that neither CSX nor DoH will take responsibility for the hazardous crossing, each pointing to the other as the one responsible for the hazardous condition and responsible for redesigning or making the crossing safe. According to a Gauley Bridge Town Official, the problem seems to be the rubber surrounding the tracks and the sharp curve over those pads – it becomes "incredibly slick" during rain, a hazardous condition that could be quickly lessened by replacing the rubber with concrete (something the town has apparently been unsuccessfully pleading with DoH to do since 1995.) In 2001 a motorcyclist who became a quadriplegic as a result of an accident at the crossing sued DoH but the suit was apparently (and unfortunately) settled before going to trial.

Currently

The Town of Gauley Bridge is doing everything they can to urge CSX and DoH to settle their differences and redesign the crossing. The previously mentioned letter will hopefully spur some action, and I believe the time is ripe for a national, multi-brand organization (i.e. the AMA) to begin the process of bringing nationwide attention to this unique situation and working hard within the West Virginia Legislature and Governor’s Office to immediately repair or replace this intersection. Should the AMA not hop on this I would be more than happy to coordinate such a campaign within the BMW MOA.

For those who have had accidents at this crossing I would urge you to consult an Attorney with this information and explore legal remedies.

Someone became paralyzed several years ago and the problem still wasn't corrected!? That's an outrage. It's about time someone doused the rubber with gasoline and burned it up.

[Unregistered]

Here's an update on the situation I recenlty received, can any of you follow up and see what's been done there?

Dear Dr. Bagby:

On Monday, December 1 I e-mailed the West Virginia Department of Transportation District 9 Maintenance Engineer regarding the status of the railroad crossing on Route 60 near Gauley Bridge. I asked him for a status update on the crossing; his reply was:

"The new surface has been installed."

Although I do not have photographs of the reconstructed crossing, an earlier e-mail from the Maintenance Engineer indicated the rubberized surface would be replaced with a concrete/asphalt surface, providing for better traction for motorcyclists crossing this otherwise dangerous set of tracks.

Perhaps a local motorcyclist will be able to take a few photos to provide proof of the new surface. This should be of interest to a number of motorcyclists who attended the rally in West Virginia this summer and complained about the Route 60 railroad crossing.

Thanks for your interest in safety. I wish you a safe and enjoyable 2004 riding season.

Best regards,

Mr. Imre F. Szauter
Legislative Affairs Specialist
Government Relations Department
614-856-1900 ext. 1125
iszauter@ama-cycle.org

American Motorcyclist Association
13515 Yarmouth Drive
Pickerington, OH 43147-8214