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Braddog
10-17-2005, 12:15 PM
Following is a posting/e-mail from a gentleman named Aaron in Seattle. He needs some assistance with providing value to an insurance company.

If anyone can provide any assistance, I'm sure he would appreciate it. Read on...
================================================== ======
Hi,
I have a bike on your site
(at http://www.geocities.com/rs77webmaster/ms78/index.html )

It is a 1978 R100S ‘Motorsport’ Sr. No 6067620, listed under the name Aaron.
About a month ago I was rear-ended on the street and the bike suffered quite a
bit of damage as a result. Since then I have been involved in discussions with
the insurance company representing the person responsible for the damage to try
to get these people pay for the repair costs. Currently their position is that
this bike isn’t rare at all and that as far as they are concerned it’s worth
about $1,800. This amount is a “total” cost value for the bike, which means they
will take possession of it for said amount, as such, if I wanted to keep the
bike, I would have to buy it back from them.

Most people are reasonably familiar with the way insurance companies work with
respect to valuing personal property, so I won’t go into how frustrating and
insulting it all is. As it stands, the bike will cost somewhere in the order of
$5,000 to repair and put back to the way it was before the accident. In any
other circumstance, I would have to admit that this cost would be more than the
bike would be worth, but this is not just an R100S.

The rarity of the series is something we are all aware of, but it’s apparently
not something anyone that I have heard of can actually verify. This verification
would have to take the form of some form of documentation or something otherwise
substantive for me to actually succeed in making them believe that it’s a rare
machine.

Hence I am writing to you in the hopes that someone can help me to prove this
bike’s status as a special edition.

Personally, I love this machine. I spend countless hours maintaining, tuning and
cleaning the bike and always replace deteriorated parts with OEM parts. I have
already had the tank and front fairing repainted at serious expense and went to
exhaustive lengths to get the correct colours to do so. My investment in this
bike is substantial… money, time, dedication to authenticity and attention
verging on obsession. My girlfriend is jealous of the bike! In fact, the day
before the accident I spent four hours tuning it up in preparation to go for a
nice, long ride. I was on my way home from breakfast to pick up some maps so I
could leave on that trip when I was rear-ended.

I will pay for this machine’s repair. I know I can’t let it go to the scrap
yard, not only because I happen to have an oddly and deeply personal bond with
it, but also because I genuinely take it upon myself to defend its existence and
rarity.

I believe it’s my responsibility to make sure that this Motorspot will survive,
that when it’s most likely the majority of this series are already dead and long
gone and that more will eventually follow, as many as can be saved ought to be.
I can help in this effort by keeping *my* bike alive and happy. The unfortunate
thing for me is that the expense will break me. I’m not wealthy; I don’t have
thousands sitting around waiting to be spent. This will seriously hurt my
financial health for a time, but I will pay.

It may mean I have to pay in installments or come up with some other method of
payment, but it’s very difficult to accept that I would have to when there
exists a corporation who is supposed to right the situation caused by their
client. I find the behaviour of this insurance company to be reprehensible. They
know the bike is worth more than what they are offering and they don’t care that
I cannot find anything to back up my claim that it is, so they remain
intransigent and aloof.

I’m turning to you and your visitors to help me to try to find some way to
substantively, or as much so as possible, verify how few/many of these were
produced.

I have heard several assertions that something in the order of 92 of them were
produced and that perhaps 200 of the RS were produced, but I have also read that
these numbers cannot be verified at all since there is no apparent record kept
of how many motorcycles were assigned specific paint schemes.

There are stories which support the belief that these bikes were destined for
the Australian market and were diverted for some reason to the U.S..

I have also read that the paint scheme might have been meant to support a
marketing campaign in aid of the first ‘Motorsport’ car (M1) BMW were trying to
release in 1978 and that because of production difficulties at the Italian (name
escapes me at present) sub-contractor’s facility, the release had to be delayed
until 1979… which could mean that the bikes might, from a PR standpoint, be an
embarrassment and so were off-loaded to the U.S. market.

There are other accounts about its history, all of them fascinating, but none
seem to be verifiable. What bothers me is that I have to believe that there is a
record somewhere for this series since they seem to have been more than simply
another paint scheme; they seem, from almost all accounts to be associated with
some special initiative and as such there ought to be some form of record.

So, that’s my story and my plea. I need your help. I’m trying very hard to save
this beautiful bike and I cannot think of another group who would be better
suited to help me on this campaign.

It’s obviously not a simple request, I realize there is some division on the
subject and I respect the fact that others have put in time and effort to try to
track down a definitive history. If I have to follow in their footsteps to try
to get the information I need to justify this bike’s special status, then I
will, but even then I would respectfully request help to know where to look, who
to talk to and what exactly I should look for.

Thank you for your time…
If you’ve read this far you have my appreciation.

Aaron O’Bryan-Herriott
Seattle

P.S. If anyone wishes to forward this mail to contact who could help me in this,
they absolutely have my blessing to do so.
=========================================

lkchris
10-17-2005, 01:12 PM
Goes to show that if you think your bike is "rare" you should negotiate this up front with an insurance company and be prepared to pay rates accordingly.

Unless the owner had discussed the special nature of this bike with his insurance company up front, I wouldn't lift a finger to help him scam the company.

dlearl476
10-17-2005, 01:24 PM
Aaron, this is a bit of "closing the barn door after the horses are gone".
Had you obtained an "agreed value" policy yourself, you wouldn't be having this problem.
As it is, all is not lost. I obtained a reasonable settlement on a "totalled" 2002 tii once. You're gonna hafta find someone willing to document the machine's general worth in writing. I doubt anyone will give you a bone fide "appraisal", post accident. I would start with restorers in the "Owners News", and perhaps Blue Moon Cycle.

And don't take no for an answer. The people you've spoken to so far get paid to say "NO". Don't give up until yoy get to talk to the guy who gets paid to resolve issues and settles claims.

flash412
10-17-2005, 02:30 PM
A motorsport BMW is NOT rare. ANY airhead of the correct vintage can be turned into a motorsport with a paint job and a couple of tank badges. $1800 is TOTAL BS, though.

Guy hit you from behind and his insurance company being buttheads about it? File a lawsuit. That will immediately up their offer considerably.

Braddog
10-17-2005, 03:29 PM
I'm not sure if Aaron is a member of these boards or not. Bear in mind that I am not him, I was just trying to do him a favor by posting the info here. I'll forward this thread to him for his perusal.

I've seen similar topics for people that have had '77 R100RS's wrecked (not their fault). This is a '77 R100RS group that both Aaron and I (as well as some for this board) belong to.

GSTom
10-17-2005, 03:30 PM
I'm with Flash on filing a lawsuit. Find one of these guys who deal specifically with auto insurance claims to represent you. They know what buttons to push with the insurance people and can get you a fair settlement. Most work on a contingency basis so their fees are rolled right into the settlement with the insurer. Very little if any risk to you.

username
10-17-2005, 03:55 PM
the insurance companies know that 99% of people accept these insulting low-ball offers. i had this happen to me once on an old BMW auto, and i got it straightened out.

go be that 1%.

Bigrider
10-17-2005, 03:59 PM
Goes to show that if you think your bike is "rare" you should negotiate this up front with an insurance company and be prepared to pay rates accordingly.

Unless the owner had discussed the special nature of this bike with his insurance company up front, I wouldn't lift a finger to help him scam the company.

Not so fast. Had a talk with my insurance broker (for Dairyland). What you pay "your" insurance company has nothing to do with what you can expect from the other guys insurance company. Don't want to go into what you can lie cheat and steal for, but if you can show that comparable bikes, such as listed in ON (which are always a little high IMO), you have some ground to negotiate. As Ikchris states though, if your insurance company has to pay, for what ever reason, you had better have it insured (and documented) accordingly.

Dave H
Colorado Springs

dlearl476
10-17-2005, 08:15 PM
>I'm not sure if Aaron is a member of these boards or not..... I'll forward this thread to him for his perusal.

When you do, hip him to all the benefits of membership and remind him of the free advice. :thumb

>What you pay "your" insurance company has nothing to do with what you can expect from the other guys insurance company.


The fact that you've been paying a certain amount for an agreed on value of a bike has everything to do with being able to prove, to anybody, what the bike is worth. I'm not certain, but I would guess just like uninsured motorist coverage, if you're paying your company to cover you for X amount, your insurance company would make up the difference, and I'll guarantee THEY'LL go after the other guys insurance.

In my experience, just refusing to take no for an answer will get a REASONABLE settlement. My tii went from the initial offer of $2150 to $6500 AND I keep the car. But I had $2500 of recent transmission/drive line receipts AND a buddy who owns a high end autobody joint to go to bat for me re: condition and value.
It never even got to the point where, like Flash explained, I had to point out to them that their customer rear-ended my son in a freeway construction zone while applying makeup. (Her, not my son :nyah )

flash412
10-18-2005, 03:22 PM
I got rear ended on my F650 on August 3, 2005 while sitting at a stoplight. My bike was "totalled." (Photo1 (http://flash412pix.home.comcast.net/flashcrash1b.jpg) Photo2 (http://flash412pix.home.comcast.net/flashcrash2b.jpg)) I rode it on a 2000 mile weekend about six weeks later after installing a new shock and pair of saddlebag loops. The Other Guy had insurance. I had insurance, too. HOWEVER...

A few months before that, I learned that Uninsured Motorist coverage is NOT FOR PROPERTY DAMAGE. When I found that out, I called my carrier and asked about UM property damage coverage. Cost me a whopping FOUR DOLLARS MORE to add uninsured motorist property damage coverage to my policy. And my experience getting hit made me VERY GLAD I did.

This is the first time in my life I have not had to fight my own insurance company. My company assigned an adjuster. This adjuster called me and advised me on how to get the MOST out of the Other Guy's company.

They gave me a lowball offer. I told them that was stupidly low. They asked for some documentation which I gave them, along with the number I wanted. In the end, I got $3250 for the damage to my 1998 F650 AND I kept the bike.

I've had more than my share of insurance experiences. Along the way, I have learned a few things dealing with agents and adjusters. Agents know nothing. Their job is to sell policies. They can do nothing to help you beyond hooking you up with an adjuster. Adjusters are in the business of screwing the person who files the claim. Every dollar they do not pay you is one more dollar profit to the insurer. They will lie to you, lowball you and do anything else to keep from paying you that dollar. Do not accept their first offer, ever. There is ALWAYS more to be had.

Start out being pleasant with an adjuster. As time goes on, become more and more unpleasant and more and more insistant. Call them more and more frequently. Your goal is to make the adjuster decide that he wants nothing more to do with you, ever. Your goal is to convince the adjuster to do whatever it takes to get you out of their life, forever, which means paying your claim in the manner YOU find acceptable. Call or write their boss, complaining about how incompetent they are. Talk about the lies they told you. Write the state insurance commission asking about filing complaints with them. Always cc the adjuster. You want them to HATE you enough to do whatever it takes to make you leave. That means cutting you the check you deserve.

Every yin has a yang. If you are ever subjected to being rescheduled while flying somewhere, do just the opposite. You are in a line with 200 other pissed off travelers. When you get to the head of the line, smile at the agent. Crack a joke. Make him or her smile. Act like you have all the time in the world. You DO have all the time in the world for THIS person. Your goal here is to get them to spend the maximum amount of time with YOU. (Remember, there are 199 pissed off, grumpy people behind you in line.) The more time they spend with you, getting your flight arranged, the less time they'll have to spend with grumpy folks. What do you know... a first class seat to your destination on another airline just turned up! Life is SWEET!

beemerPhil
10-18-2005, 04:50 PM
I had a similar situation in Seattle in the '90s, after being left-turned on my pristine '77 R100. The other driver's insurance company offered me $1700 for the bike and my gear(BMW system helmet, leathers, etc)

I sent them a scan of a page of the MOA Flea Market that showed a handful of them listed at prices much more representative of the actual market value, and they wound up paying over $3500 for property damage.

I realize that you won't find a lot of Motosports listed in any one place like I did, but I would recommend finding all the supporting evidence you can find of recent sales of similar bikes. Check back issues of the MOA News, or maybe the 'completed listings' search on Ebay. See what your dealer has to say- the better you can document your claim, the better you'll get paid.

Of course, I had a broken leg, and internal bleeding in some bad places, so they may have been a touch more accommodating with me....are you really sure you weren't injured? ;)

I'm not suggesting that you should come up with an injury, but it makes good sense to get thoroughly checked out after you get hit; lots of things may not seem serious now, but turn out to be more than you thought later on. When you sign the insurance check, you've pretty much let them off the hook!

Good luck!

lkchris
10-18-2005, 05:22 PM
Not so fast. Had a talk with my insurance broker (for Dairyland). What you pay "your" insurance company has nothing to do with what you can expect from the other guys insurance company. Don't want to go into what you can lie cheat and steal for, but if you can show that comparable bikes, such as listed in ON (which are always a little high IMO), you have some ground to negotiate. As Ikchris states though, if your insurance company has to pay, for what ever reason, you had better have it insured (and documented) accordingly.

Dave H
Colorado Springs

Yours is a good point, although I'd suppose having arranged special coverage with your own company will probably influence favorable the other party's insurer or whoever it is that decides the case.

Braddog
10-18-2005, 09:19 PM
I've passed on the contents to this thread to Aaron, as well as inviting him to join BMW MOA. He sends his thanks.

By the way, he already has an attorney to assist with any issues that he may have with recovering for the injuries he sustained in the crash, which included a banged up left knee, and 2 crushed disks. He just wants his R100S repaired, that's all.