Change to forum access

[Mudbug]

I just noticed that I must login to read the forum. Must be something new. A few days ago, I could read the forum without logging in.

What's up?

:cry

[BradfordBenn]

Greetings... this change is probably a result of your cookie being lost during the SQL glitch today. However there are in fact changes coming.

KBasa has posted a few notes about them at http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/announcement.php?f=2 or http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7232

Once you are recookied you should be all good.

If you have any questions, feel free to let us know :thumb

[Hodag]

i prefer chocolate chip cookies

[kbasa]

Yep. We've started changing the access levels on the forum.

Watch for the big switch pretty soon.

[Mudbug]

It's not cookies. I accept cookies from www.bmwmoa.org.
I'm not sure that changing access to read the forum is wise. Before I joined BMWMOA, I checked out the forum and I liked the fact that I did not have to create a login profile and log in. Had I been required to do so, I might not have joined. I don't like giving out information on myself needlessly. :mad

[BlueKnight]

Yep. We've started changing the access levels on the forum.



Thanks Dave. I like that idea a lot!

Mike

[kbasa]

It's not cookies. I accept cookies from www.bmwmoa.org.
I'm not sure that changing access to read the forum is wise. Before I joined BMWMOA, I checked out the forum and I liked the fact that I did not have to create a login profile and log in. Had I been required to do so, I might not have joined. I don't like giving out information on myself needlessly. :mad

I can understand that. Rest assured that the information you provide stays here, on the forum and isn't used by us or sold to anyone else.

We're going to leave the rally forum open, but the other forums will get closed up.

Dave

[Mudbug]

We're going to leave the rally forum open, but the other forums will get closed up.

Except for the rally forum, is the goal to make the forums for members only?
:dunno

[kbasa]

Except for the rally forum, is the goal to make the forums for members only?
:dunno

Yes.

[Visian]

Would it be worth considering leaving the Campfire forum open also? That would make it possible for non-members to get to know us a bit and persuade them to join.

Ian

[kbasa]

Would it be worth considering leaving the Campfire forum open also? That would make it possible for non-members to get to know us a bit and persuade them to join.

Ian

Interesting thought, Ian.

Thanks. We'll talk about it for a while and see what folks think.

dave

[username]

people will still be able to lurk, right? that's probably a dumb question, but i wanted to make sure. (that they can still lurk, not that it's a dumb question. :D )

[MarkF]

people will still be able to lurk, right? that's probably a dumb question, but i wanted to make sure. (that they can still lurk, not that it's a dumb question. :D )

I don't think so. No lookie, postie on everything except the rally forum. Is that correct Dave?

[Mudbug]

people will still be able to lurk, right? that's probably a dumb question, but i wanted to make sure. (that they can still lurk, not that it's a dumb question. :D )

That is not a dumb question. It is a very good question.

Unless I misunderstood, there will be no lurking for non-members except for the rally forum. I totally disagree with non-members not having read access to all the forum for 2 reasons, we have nothing to hide and information is power. In this case power to influence people, potential members, to join.

Closed, proprietary, secret, whatever you want to call it, tend to backfire and create the opposite results of what was intended.

If I were a potential member and had to join to read the forum then found out that I was very dissappointed, I would not be happy and I would spread my tale of woe to my friends. I would rather find out that it was not for me first before I pony up the membership dues.

On the other hand, if I was able to read the forum and liked it, I would join immediately because of the good I see, the forum being one of them. Remember that the internet and the forum is what most people see. Access to the internet and the forum is far greater than the number of BMW ON sent out, the number of attendees of the BMW MOA rallies, in fact the number of all yearly rallies combined. The internet is a great sales tool.

An after thought -
If logon is required to address security or potential security problems, then the security issues need to be addressed. Required logon would be a quick remedy and not a cure of overall security issues.

[kbasa]

Rob and I have spent some time talking about this over the last couple days. We'll probably leave the rally forum open for both posting and reading by non members, and will most likely leave Campfire open for lurking, but not posting by non members.

We think those two items will give folks a look, without giving them too big of a look. I subscribe to motorcycle.com and they do sort of the same thing. You can read the first couple paragraphs of one of their articles and then you get a "you better subscribe" message.

We can, I believe, configure the forums so folks can see the forum and the thread titles, but can't see into the threads. This may serve to encourage folks to join as well.

But, it's safe to say that we're looking to restrict access to members only in some way over the next month or two.

Questions and suggestions are welcomed.

[threeflys]

Dave,
I think Leaving the rally and campfire forums open are great with one exception, since the rally forum is only supposed to be for rally info how can people post general bmw questions? Before I joined (before I bought a BMW), I posted a couple of questions on BMW ownership that were answered quickly and thoughtfully making my buying decision that much easier. I think it might wiser to have the rally read only and the campfire postable. If that wouldn't work, how about a new forum called "Potential Members" or "Newbie Questions" or something like that?
Just a thought,
Chris

[username]

hmmm. if i judged this group only by the content in the campfire, i'd be less likely to join. and i'd have no idea that the oilheads forum had amazingly useful content. i think the true value of the community comes across in what can be seen in the bike-specific forums. (and the rally one too...)

something to consider might be to allow all the forums to be lurkable, but not searchable unless you are a member. so let's say i've got a 2002 r1150r. i can jump into the oilheads forum and see people having good discussions about that. i can think, "wow, these guys are good." if i want to "mine" the tribal knowledge of that forum and *efficiently* boost my own knowledge, i need to join. the best way to get rapid feedback to learn about something specific is to use the search function, or to post a question. sure, people could take a lot of time to read through all the threads to find answers to some specific questions, but i think that's a small minority of people.

i hope i'm explaining this in a way that makes sense.

i really think that we should be inclusive and let people see as much as they want, but if they want real value, they gotta pay. i also think it's better to err on the side of "giving" too much away than to restrict things. it's like a store - anyone can browse, and see every piece of merchandise, but if you want to take it home, you need to buy it.

keeping all the forums lurkable is in essence, free advertising of how good we are, without causing any harm to existing members. the *real* value is in asking *your* question and getting it answered quickly, or connecting with people for rides, etc.

how hard is it to make certain forums viewable or not viewable in the new "members only" architecture? is it a two week change or a two minute change? if it doesnt take too long, it can be experimented with with minimal impact to volunteers' time.

like i said, i hope this makes sense and seems reasonable. it's something to think about.

to be clear, i dont expect rob, kbasa, or anyone else to get every decision about transforming our web presence perfect the first time. hopefully we can learn and adapt over the next year or so and tune things.

[hurricane]

[QUOTE=
to be clear, i dont expect rob, kbasa, or anyone else to get every decision about transforming our web presence perfect the first time. hopefully we can learn and adapt over the next year or so and tune things.[/QUOTE]

Amen. Hope everybody remembers that.

[SheRidesABeemer]

When I start looking at new forums, my expectation is that I can look at most of it, but reply only when I sign up; or as proposed here, post in a very limited area.
What we saw after Lima was an influx of unregistered postings that were Beemer bashing, I'd like to see that stopped, but it could be done via moderating rather than stopping all posters.

[kbasa]

When I start looking at new forums, my expectation is that I can look at most of it, but reply only when I sign up; or as proposed here, post in a very limited area.
What we saw after Lima was an influx of unregistered postings that were Beemer bashing, I'd like to see that stopped, but it could be done via moderating rather than stopping all posters.

That's pretty much how we're set now, Gail.

What's up with selling the LT?

dave

[MarkF]

At the very least anyone should be able to read the first post of all the threads. Maybe all the National and local Rally posts. But, I agree that the only non-member posts allowed should be in the National Rally forum.

[goferu]

I am a newbie to the bike world and am lovin it. Will start my classes in Sept. (that is how new I am). I have been coming online here for a couple of months reading and learning about bikes but also about the memembership. Because, I was allowed to come in and watch and listen, I joined. There aren't that many sites that will allow you to do this. Ya'l are unique in this respect. What a wonderful group of people. I wouldn't have known that if I had not been allowed to come in and see it all. Thank you

[username]

I am a newbie to the bike world and am lovin it. Will start my classes in Sept. (that is how new I am). I have been coming online here for a couple of months reading and learning about bikes but also about the memembership. Because, I was allowed to come in and watch and listen, I joined. There aren't that many sites that will allow you to do this. Ya'l are unique in this respect. What a wonderful group of people. I wouldn't have known that if I had not been allowed to come in and see it all. Thank you

i'd call that validation.

[Callmethebreeze]

hmmm. if i judged this group only by the content in the campfire, i'd be less likely to join. and i'd have no idea that the oilheads forum had amazingly useful content. i think the true value of the community comes across in what can be seen in the bike-specific forums. (and the rally one too...)

something to consider might be to allow all the forums to be lurkable, but not searchable unless you are a member. so let's say i've got a 2002 r1150r. i can jump into the oilheads forum and see people having good discussions about that. i can think, "wow, these guys are good." if i want to "mine" the tribal knowledge of that forum and *efficiently* boost my own knowledge, i need to join. the best way to get rapid feedback to learn about something specific is to use the search function, or to post a question. sure, people could take a lot of time to read through all the threads to find answers to some specific questions, but i think that's a small minority of people.

i hope i'm explaining this in a way that makes sense.

i really think that we should be inclusive and let people see as much as they want, but if they want real value, they gotta pay. i also think it's better to err on the side of "giving" too much away than to restrict things. it's like a store - anyone can browse, and see every piece of merchandise, but if you want to take it home, you need to buy it.

keeping all the forums lurkable is in essence, free advertising of how good we are, without causing any harm to existing members. the *real* value is in asking *your* question and getting it answered quickly, or connecting with people for rides, etc.

how hard is it to make certain forums viewable or not viewable in the new "members only" architecture? is it a two week change or a two minute change? if it doesnt take too long, it can be experimented with with minimal impact to volunteers' time.

like i said, i hope this makes sense and seems reasonable. it's something to think about.

to be clear, i dont expect rob, kbasa, or anyone else to get every decision about transforming our web presence perfect the first time. hopefully we can learn and adapt over the next year or so and tune things.

Distilling this view. Allow free access to view but limit posting to all threads with the exception of a question and answer topic thread such as Rally, Member Benefits and How to get more involved in BMW motorcycling.
Adios,
Breeze

[goferu]

I covered all your forums not just one...loved them...wish I would have covered the one about how to spell membership... :cry

I read about Lima and Sandy and watched closely about what was said. Even read your bylaws...the unregistered guest was out of line. But he didn't touch you. Y'al handled yourself with class and that is the bottom line. Since, I am such a newbie...think I will watch and listen a lot more...thanks

[BradfordBenn]

What's up with selling the LT?


Gail purchased another one - used. I believe she is picking it up this weekend.

[SheRidesABeemer]

I most defiantly did not pick up another LT! Rode 900 miles home this weekend, now I know what people mean by riding IN the bike not ON it. Dang, that was fun. Story and pics later... :clap

[ian408]

I like the idea of ride reports and some selected forums being open
read only. I lurked for a bit here as well as other sites before joining
and the ability to read posts was key to joining the forum.

As much as I like going to rally's, they're not the essence of motorcycling
as much as the shared experience of the ride tale.

Ian