Military Bases Close,

[Gnome]

Does anyone else wonder (like me) that maybe George Bush went to Russia only to ask his little buddy Vladimir Pooten which bases he should close?

:dunno

[BobFV1]

Does anyone else wonder (like me) that maybe George Bush went to Russia only to ask his little buddy Vladimir Pooten which bases he should close?

FW!

Gnome-ster, unless your comment is a joke, it flew over my head - I can't figure out what sort of political category to put it in.

[Hodag]

if we close a few here,
maybe we could invade a few other "EVIL-DOERS" with WMD?? Then open bases there? Just a thought

[gambrinus]

Guys 99% of the places that were closed were small reserve bases and admin centers. The Sub base in Conn and an Air Force base in NM were the two biggest closures. We still have numerous redundant facilities where you can nearly see one base from another... It will all work out in the end.


RW

[MarkF]

Guys 99% of the places that were closed were small reserve bases and admin centers. The Sub base in Conn and an Air Force base in NM were the two biggest closures. We still have numerous redundant facilities where you can nearly see one base from another... It will all work out in the end.


RW

I might be biased but Groton should not close. It has been the sub training facility since before WWII. Also, it's just down the street (river) from where they build those boats. But, I agree it will all work out. I doubt Vlad told GWB anything worth squat!

[Gnome]

If Groton is closing, something bad is in the air and I don't like it.

ex-Navy here. :cry

[subvet]

I was dissapointed but not surprised when I heard the news about Groton. When I was there in 76' it was old and junky. I got an apartment w. shipmates for that reason. There were efforts to update barracks, etc..76'-82' and I suppose more updates after I left but you can only polish a turd so much.
Still, it'll be sad to see it go (if it does) It's the Submarine-Mecca.....lotsa tradition, lotsa good memories, lotsa good friends still up there.
I'd be interested in seeing the reasons why, and what they'll do w. the sub fleet based there.
This is a long way from over. Govt. has threatened to shut-down Groton before and it never happened but maybe the mission and the facility don't line up anymore. It'll be interesting to see what happens w. Electric Boat if the base shut-down moves forward. The area has taken enough hits over the years w. cutbacks in defense spending....if the base shuts down that's bad, if EB shuts down, everyone better get a casino job if they haven't already.

[gec343]

This guy, GNOME sounds like another America hating Liberal Democrat to me. Totally out of touch with reality!!!!!

[Gnome]

Not quite gec,funny though,very funny!

Just because I think G.W. is an idiot doesn't make me a liberal. But what if I am a liberal,what is it to you?

This guy GEC sounds like someone who believes everything Rush Limbaugh says. (gotcha!!!)

ride safe.

[MarkF]

I was dissapointed but not surprised when I heard the news about Groton. When I was there in 76' it was old and junky. I got an apartment w. shipmates for that reason. There were efforts to update barracks, etc..76'-82' and I suppose more updates after I left but you can only polish a turd so much.

Still, it'll be sad to see it go (if it does) It's the Submarine-Mecca.....lotsa tradition, lotsa good memories, lotsa good friends still up there.

I'd be interested in seeing the reasons why, and what they'll do w. the sub fleet based there.

It was a lot nicer looking a few years back, but I only saw the exterior.

I wonder if they will move the museum, too?

I hear east coast subs will go to VA and GA. Electric Boat (if it survives) might move to a smaller overhaul facility in GA.

Southeast Connecticut and western Rhode Island will look like a coal town!

[subvet]

I'm no real estate developer but I'm thinking there's some prime water-front real estate right there in the old lower base area. With all those docks, add a few nice restaurants maybe some hotels, and you have a perfect boating spot w/o having to motor all the way up to Norwich.

I can't see them moving the museum....that would be a crime. You'd have a bunch of decrepid old bubble-heads raising a stink about that.

They can't tear the buildings down, the wax build-up on the floors make them impervious to anything but a nuclear strike. I think I personally waxed every floor in every building on that base in the 6 years I was there!!!

[CJM]

Beats me why they are closing Groton. Except maybe payback for the Dems closing Charleston and moving DD's to Texas to "save money" except they had to build more piers etc for the DD's. Then they built a whole NEW base in Ga. (think Jimmy boy had something to do with that?) that requires the subs to enter/exit surfaced! In Charleston they could do it submerged. Plus Charleston was the highest quality/lowest cost yard in the nation. Politics my dear boy...as the song says:

"you best learn politics or I'll lay your soul to waste."

Look , as I read it all base closings are in states that voted for the other side. Just as they did to us, we shall do to them. Payback is after-all..a bitch!

Just a thought.

MTBATP

[MarkF]

Connecticut's governor is campaigning already. Her point, very interesting, is that the haz-mat clean-up of the Groton waterfront will be ten-fold whatever is saved by closing it.

Heard on the radio tonite that some fast attacks have been relocated to Guam. Perhaps the Atlantic doesn't need a sub defense. China/Korea might be the next cold war.

[CJM]

Connecticut's governor is campaigning already. Her point, very interesting, is that the haz-mat clean-up of the Groton waterfront will be ten-fold whatever is saved by closing it.

Heard on the radio tonite that some fast attacks have been relocated to Guam. Perhaps the Atlantic doesn't need a sub defense. China/Korea might be the next cold war.

I don't think I'd use the haz-mat point as an argument!

Your second was a very good point. I'm just worried that the Chinese have plans for something a little warmer than the last one. After all, Mao said 30 years ago that they could afford to lose 500,000,000 people and would be better off. And I think they have doubled in population since then.


MTBATP

[username]

I don't think I'd use the haz-mat point as an argument!
MTBATP

why?

[Gnome]

You couldn't have said it better Mikethebike,the Chinese are a terrible threat to this country,and the world.
Also it seems that every time this country has closed bases and slacked off a damn mess has happened. I see China as a big dark cloud in the distance,and coming this way. How we will ever get out of Iraq now is anybody's guess. Our government is spreading the Military thin,and treating them like second class citizens. Now Groton is closing.
Add to that, ilegals are pouring across our borders by the millions. What is going on here? Am I the only one who is affraid that this country is seeing it's last days?
:dunno

[Gizmo]

This guy, GNOME sounds like another America hating Liberal Democrat to me. Totally out of touch with reality!!!!!

Hate to burst your bubble, but while I disagree with Gnome on the implication of his question, not all liberals hate America. Your statement reflects a big problem in this country, polarization and lack of respect in other people's ideas. It has become all to familiar in this country, that if you are conservative that it equates to all liberals are bad and vice versa if one is liberal, all conservatives are bad.... and that just does not reflect reality. What happen to the day when ideas were exchanged, debated and discussed in an atmosphere of mutual respect and understanding?

[username]

What happen to the day when ideas were exchanged, debated and discussed in an atmosphere of mutual respect and understanding?

there you go again, you america-hater! how can i have respect for an unpatriotic person who thinks in shades of grey? i cant! the world is simple black or white, winner or loser, for or against. and if you aint with me, youre a loser, youre against me, and youre eeeeeeeeeeeeevil!

;)

sorry, im practicing in case i get a talk radio show.

[CJM]

Hate to burst your bubble, but while I disagree with Gnome on the implication of his question, not all liberals hate America. Your statement reflects a big problem in this country, polarization and lack of respect in other people's ideas. It has become all to familiar in this country, that if you are conservative that it equates to all liberals are bad and vice versa if one is liberal, all conservatives are bad.... and that just does not reflect reality. What happen to the day when ideas were exchanged, debated and discussed in an atmosphere of mutual respect and understanding?

The democrates killed that day a long time ago. Like the filibuster aganist court appointees is a debate and exchange of ideas discussed in an atmosphere of mutual respect and understanding. And just look at Clintons campaign manager...what was his name? The bald guy with the beady eyes and the mealy mouth.

MTBATP

Proud to be an EX-DEMOCRATE

[username]

mike, i think youre confusing things. democrates was the (in)famous greek philosopher who was a contemporary (rival really) of plato and socrates. he was a lesser known author of the time, as compared to aristophenes and xenephon, but his work was important nonetheless.

he was the original proponent of the school of narrow-minded thought, one in which to save time and energy, people were fed incomplete, prejudiced opinions from a few key leaders. they were then instructed to spout them off in very authoritative ways, and to resist attempts on the part of any to debate them in a coherent, fact-based manner. this was very popular for a time, because people lacked a worldview, and were pretty intolerant. fittingly, and in sharp contrast to socrates, democrates felt that piety, not logic or reason, was the highest calling of man. he also disagreed with socrates' notion that attempting to tie morality to an external reference created an impassable logical dilemma about the origin of good, dismissing it with a wave of his hand as "a bunch of big city fancy talk."

as perhaps a most exemplary demonstration of my theory that the true purpose of mankind is to test the limits of irony, democrates' methods and philosophy have been instrumental in the slick rise yet ham-fisted protection of the republican majority and recent dominance over the well-intentioned yet inept democrats. (it's weird how words can be so similar, but the meanings are different.)

little reported, but widely loved among thinking men and dullards alike were socrates final words as the hemlock took hold of him, "at least i won't have to listen to that jackass democrates anymore. his heaven is my hell, and his hell my paradise. oh wait, have i denounced all that? aaccck!"

hmmm, now that i think of it, you might have simply been misspelling "democrats." if so, i apologize for boring everyone with the history lesson.

[jdcoffman]

why?
The haz-mat argument doesn't fly because whether the base stays open or closes the haz-mat still has to be dealt with!!! :doh

[Gnome]

username,I'm very impressed,and also laughing my arse off. Oops,there it fell on the ground,bollocks! That really was good! :p

And Gizmo,thanks! I'd buy you all a round, even gec :thumb

Side note*
I'm not a Liberal,I'm ultra-conservative,YIKES!!!!!!! ;)

[jdcoffman]

liberals don't hate America! They just have issues with the bill of rights!
The right to bear arms.
Freedom of speech. (If I am stupid enough to use the "n" word or some other bigot expression I should have that right. Hate crimes are stupid! If I kill someone in the first degree for whatever reason I should be taken out and shot.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Except your unborn.

[MarkF]

The haz-mat argument doesn't fly because whether the base stays open or closes the haz-mat still has to be dealt with!!! :doh

Not so. The only time you have to clean up is when you tear down. There are plenty of old empty factories in New England that prove the point.

[TheSlashFiveTourer]

And just look at Clintons campaign manager...what was his name? The bald guy with the beady eyes and the mealy mouth.

Hey Bike!.....here ya go, partner:

JAMES CARVILLE FOR PRESIDENT! . . . . . .(sorry Voni !!)

CARVILLE = Proud Democrat / right arm to Bill Clinton / Proud Son of Louisiana / popular co-host of CNN's 'CrossFire' five days a week / happily-married to a staunch Republican. :violin

Can't you all just get along down there??? :kiss

[YB in IN]

liberals don't hate America! They just have issues with the bill of rights!
The right to bear arms.
Freedom of speech. (If I am stupid enough to use the "n" word or some other bigot expression I should have that right. Hate crimes are stupid! If I kill someone in the first degree for whatever reason I should be taken out and shot.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Except your unborn.

Yeah conservatives are really good at trying to preserve freedom of speech. Give me a break. Remeber how some stations wouldn't play Saving Private Ryan on Veteran's day because of fears of the FCC and the language in the movie? Way to go conservatives, way to go. We all know that the men who fought in WWII never said a curse word in their whole entire lives. Oh, and you brought up my total favorite dichotomy from the pro-lifers that it's peachy-keen to kill someone who commits a crime that we think that they are guilty of, but that abortion is a crime against God and man.

[Gnome]

Ok the James Carville picture is to much. By the way James isn't from Louisana,he's from the planet Vulcron.

As I heard one guy say about James once,"I wouldn't piss in his arse ifn his guts wus on far"

I'm not really a ultra-conservative. I'm more of a libercon...hmmm.
Guess you could say I'm an odd ball. Legalize Pot,and save our right to keep and bear arms!
oh yeah,Slim Pickens for president! :D

[MarkF]

Ok the James Carville picture is to much. By the way James isn't from Louisana,he's from the planet Vulcron.

Him and Cokie Roberts were hatched from the same pod. Art Bell is telling the truth. The aliens are already here and living among us!

[The_Veg]

Carville never ceases to give me hearty giggles. I loved an ad he did a few years ago where you see through his eyes as he calls hotel room service. And there's a great picture on page 101 of Hunter Thompson's Better Than Sex of Carville with his arm around Thompson's shoulder, with the caption 'Separated at birth?'

[kbasa]

liberals don't hate America! They just have issues with the bill of rights!
The right to bear arms.
Freedom of speech. (If I am stupid enough to use the "n" word or some other bigot expression I should have that right. Hate crimes are stupid! If I kill someone in the first degree for whatever reason I should be taken out and shot.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Except your unborn.

Actually, I love the Bill of Rights. I love the Constitution. I belong to the ACLU, which is the only organization that works to protect those documents and theories. Nazis want to march in Skokie? Hey, I hate those nitwits, but this is America and it's their right. Some moron wants to burn the flag? He's allowed to do so under the Constitution and denying him that right is illegal.

I support the right to bear arms, but there are limits. Does anyone in this country really need a .50 cal sniper rifle? Want a big clip on your AK? Fine with me. Want to own 50 guns? Cool with me. The 2nd amendment was put in place because the forefathers didn't know if there government would fly and they wanted to make sure the citizens could overthrow the government if it didn't.

I believe that while religion provides many examples of good behavior and provides community for many people, it is not the panacea for all of us, nor should all of us be expected to think as the religious factions of this country do, any more that I'd expect them to think as I do.

I believe that the government providing funds to churches for "faith based initiatives" without complete and thorough auditing of how those monies are spent is a violation of separation of church and state. I believe that organizations that take those funds and then proselytize to the recipients of government funding are breaking a Constitutional law and should be punished as such.

I hate the Patriot Acts because I love the Bill of Rights. I believe that the Patriot Act violates the right to a fair and speedy trial. I believe that the Patriot Act violates the expectations to privacy that are crucial to our freedom. I believe that the Patriot Act puts the government above the law, when it serves at our pleasure. I believe the Patriot Act removes the sunshine of public scrutiny from trials, which is in strict violation of the Bill of Rights.

I love this country. Folks from my family have fought and died for this country, as have folks from my wife's family. I think that the name calling and slandering of differing opinions, primarily by the party currently in power, is contrary to the free expression and debate that has made this country great.

Progress is never made by everyone adhering to a single opinion. Whenever progress is made, it's made by the one person that refuses to accept the common wisdom and sees a better way. The current political climate stifles that debate.

It's a big country. It's a great country. But gross characterization of either party is unfair and denies the rainbow of political opinions that make this country great.

JD, I'm deeply offended that you'd characterize me as someone that hates my country because my political views differ from yours.

Perhaps you can explain how it's OK for us to kill someone for a murder, but it's not OK to perform an abortion. Under what situation is it OK to violate "Thou Shalt Not Kill?"

[BradfordBenn]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/TNBrat/Emotions/Rant-On.gif
I have three rules that I live by:

1) I am not prejudice, I hate everyone equally.
2) If you are not sleeping with me, I don't care who you are sleeping with
3) Don't see anyone you work with, without their pants on

Okay, now in a less cynical version

1) Treat everyone equally, Republican or Democrat, Idiot or Brilliant, Tall or Short, BMW or Harley... well you get the idea.
2) As long as it is between consenting adults, what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom is just that private
3) Don't have "relations" with people you work with.

So basically I will defend to the death, your right to be an idiot. Yup, I am also a member of the ACLU, and I am a firm supporter of the Bill of Rights.

Remember that our government was created by people who were not happy with their current government - the British. So the most "American" thing we can do is question our government, it is what the founding fathers did. And no change, good or bad, ever came from someone who was satisfied with the status quo.

Do I think that the separation of church and state is getting too small under some of the new programs, yes. Do I think that you are an idiot if you disagree with me, nope. It is your right to have your opinion.

Do I think that the Patriot Act is a bad thing, yup we are losing some rights. Do I think it is illegal for someone to want to search my bag when I get on a plane? Nope, as long as it is a private company and I know about it when booking the ticket. It is part of the service that I am accepting when I purchase the ticket. Do I like it? Nope.

Do I think that if I have something illegal in my luggage, say cigars from an enemy, I think it is inappropriate for that search to then be for illegal items as I agreed to it for safety. So basically the way the result of the Patriot Act is that there is now illegal Search and Seizure of my property without just cause, other than I am boarding an airplane

Do I blame the Democrats for this? Nope
Do I blame the Republicans for this? Nope
Do I blame the Government for this? Yup

So having said that, if you like the Patriot Act that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

However there is one thing that I truly despise, generalizations and basing your opinions of people on those generalizations. I think that is called prejudice.

http://img133.exs.cx/img133/6927/explotar2jr.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v203/TNBrat/Emotions/Rant-Off.gif

[gambrinus]

Differences in opinions are a wonderful thing. It's nice when you are able to have an intelligent conversation with someone that has confused....er um I mean different views than your own.

The only .02 cents I'll toss in is that in my never humble opinion, the ACLU is a bunch of scum sucking weasels. They lack one thing that would make them heros in my book and that one thing is consistancy. They don't stand for the defense of the Bill of Rights, they stand for the free expression of liberal views. If they would step up and defend the second amendment or the views of Christians or the rights of Christians, I might change my mind. Until they stop attacking anything remotely Christian while at the same time defending every other religion, they are high on my fecal roster.

RW

[BradfordBenn]

Gambrinus and I have hung out, talked motorcycles and drink beer, is this a great country or what? :thumb

MMMMM Ralphie Burgers ;)

[Ironhorsecowboy]

Well the difference in "Thou shalt Not Kill" such as in the convicted MURDERER or the innocent unborn child is simple. Laws from as far back as the beginning of time were made for punishment of those who commited them. Thus the putting to death was just one form of punishment handed down to one who was found guilty of breaking one of the laws which were punishable by death. The MURDER of the INNOCENT unborn is different. Abortion is done mostly because of an individuals total lack of sexual responsibility. I would hate to have to make that decision myself. I am not totally against all abortions (rape, incest) however I do believe it is wrong. That is just my opinion.

However the ACLU is an organization that Gambrinus is correct about!
I recall those ASS&*#$# representing the NAMBLA (North American Boy Lovers Association). Talk about sick SOB's.

YES IT IS OK TO KILL THOSE DEVIANTS. They do not need to spend the rest of their sick lives in a prison. God forbid harming children.

I believe our prisons are full because there is not proper justice being done to these criminals. And these Moron judges are turning them out just to make room for all the new criminals in the system because there isn't any more room for these Cons.

It is evident by all the crime commited today that our laws aren't tough enough. Capital punishment is the best deterent.

[The_Veg]

SWIDER/BENN IN '08!!!

Oh wait- between being busy running the country and having to take the Secret Service everywhere, they'd never get to ride. Never mind! :D

[YB in IN]

Well the difference in "Thou shalt Not Kill" such as in the convicted MURDERER or the innocent unborn child is simple. Laws from as far back as the beginning of time were made for punishment of those who commited them. Thus the putting to death was just one form of punishment handed down to one who was found guilty of breaking one of the laws which were punishable by death.

I used to think that as well until we started to have people released from death row on DNA evidence that exonerated them. I wonder how many died in the past because technology wasn't what it was today. Being convicted of murder and being guilty of murder are two different things, and unfortunately we still don't always get it right, so I have a hard time supporting the death penalty.

[MarkF]

Well the difference in "Thou shalt Not Kill" such as in the convicted MURDERER or the innocent unborn child is simple.

I think it is far from simple. In my world killing is only justified in the heat of combat, Kill or be killed is my standard. Although I do offer some forgiveness to family members looking for vengence. Let the rest rot in a jail cell.

[Gnome]

Differences in opinions are a wonderful thing. It's nice when you are able to have an intelligent conversation with someone that has confused....er um I mean different views than your own.

The only .02 cents I'll toss in is that in my never humble opinion, the ACLU is a bunch of scum sucking weasels. They lack one thing that would make them heros in my book and that one thing is consistancy. They don't stand for the defense of the Bill of Rights, they stand for the free expression of liberal views. If they would step up and defend the second amendment or the views of Christians or the rights of Christians, I might change my mind. Until they stop attacking anything remotely Christian while at the same time defending every other religion, they are high on my fecal roster.

RW

Gambrinus, Ironhorsecowboy,and Mikethebike may I send you a case of Beer? I Love you guys!!!

The ACLU can rot in Hell. :nra

[CJM]

I used to think that as well until we started to have people released from death row on DNA evidence that exonerated them. I wonder how many died in the past because technology wasn't what it was today. Being convicted of murder and being guilty of murder are two different things, and unfortunately we still don't always get it right, so I have a hard time supporting the death penalty.

Nobody with $10,000,000.00 to spend on a defense team ever went to death-row or for that matter was convicted of murder. You get what you pay for.
That is not to say I am aganist the DP. I'm not. Drug dealers come to mind.

I agree 100% with Gambrinus and Ironhorsecowboy.. support my right to bear arms, just once (after-all, I'm not the person you need to worry about using the weapon aganist you...unless of course you are a bad guy and want to harm my family or me. Then you would be in very deep trouble). And child molesters, assuming you won't execute them, should be castrated, locked away in the general prison population so they can get a taste of their own perversion, and NEVER let out. And if the ACLU is going to support them based on freedom of speech, Hell throw them in prison for a couple of months and see how they like big bubba and his buddies.


MTBATP

MTBATP

[lorazepam]

I believe our prisons are full because there is not proper justice being done to these criminals. And these Moron judges are turning them out just to make room for all the new criminals in the system because there isn't any more room for these Cons.

It is evident by all the crime commited today that our laws aren't tough enough. Capital punishment is the best deterent.

Our Prisons are overflowing because they are full of folks comitting victimless crimes. (drug realted) We have too many laws on the books now that arent enforced properly, and making more laws does nothing to address that problem. All it does is remove more of your freedoms, and when those laws are not enforced, more are made to erode our personal liberties and on and on.

We need to legalize drugs, and those that have a problem with them need to have treatment, if that treatment includes putting them where they cant get drugs, then incarcerate them.

To put a productive citizen in jail because he likes to catch a buzz from pot and not alcohol, to me is very wrong. The same with prostitution. If some guy want to get laid and pay someone for the privilage why should he go to jail? Why should the prostitute go to jail? Explain to me what the logic in this is?

Answering because drugs and prostitution are illegal is a copout. This is more of the enforcement of morals upon the citizens of the state, and it is rapidly getting worse.

Remove the patriot act, and laws against prostitution and drugs. You want to stop drug viloence, make it legal and the turf wars and gang violence will stop with the legalization.

Oh geez we cant to that though, all the legalized piracy comitted by LEO's and the coast guard would have to cease, and all the money and property seized returned. Where oh where would they get all the "dare corvettes" and nice fancy boats that are "trophies" taken from the evil drug doers?

[Gnome]

Quote from Lorzepam;
To put a productive citizen in jail because he likes to catch a buzz from pot and not alcohol, to me is very wrong. The same with prostitution. If some guy want to get laid and pay someone for the privilage why should he go to jail? Why should the prostitute go to jail? Explain to me what the logic in this is?

------------------------------------
I don't see anything wrong with smoking refer. I am for the legalization of pot,but to many congressmen would lose money if that happened.

The way I see it,or Life according to Gnome:
The ACLU sucks,Bush is an damn idiot,no one is taking my guns without a shootout,I ride BMW motorcycles becasue I like a quality made product,everyone on here are my brothers and sisters whatever you believe and I'd do anything I could for any of yall.and.....I need a beer how about yall?

God Bless you, ride safe and be happy

[kbasa]

In.

[BubbaZanetti]

so, military bases, eh???


that being said, i live the politics of love, don't tell people what to do with their personal lives, your religion/morals/values are not theirs, thats all there is to it

and as a gun owner i would gladly give up my guns if it meant no one had guns, aside from recreation, they've never really done much good.........

[MarkF]

Slippery slope guys. I agree with decriminalization of some drugs but in reality every heroin or oxy user I've met could be doing 20-life for the number of burglaries and robberies he's done to support the habit. Treatment is good but only for those who want treatment. Many users are hooked simply because reality for them sucks and they don't want to be clean and sober.

[lorazepam]

Slippery slope guys. I agree with decriminalization of some drugs but in reality every heroin or oxy user I've met could be doing 20-life for the number of burglaries and robberies he's done to support the habit. Treatment is good but only for those who want treatment. Many users are hooked simply because reality for them sucks and they don't want to be clean and sober.

I know and have known a few folks where you could substitute alcohol for heroin in your statement.
If you are irresponsible in your behavior due to drugs or alcohol, you should be offered treatment as first choice. If you choose to remain irresponsible, then you can expect to be put in jail and have those issues dealt with there.

But putting responsible people in jail for crimes that have no victim, is senseless and a huge waste of dollars.

Going to join you in that beer Gnome.

[Pat Carol]

Well concerning base closures. The National Guard is taking a big hit all across the country. Michigan is hit again with Battle Creek on the closure list.
Michigan took a big hit in 1991 when K.I. Saywer in the U.P. of Michigan and Wurtsmith A.F.B. in Oscoda closed. Oscoda has really never recovered.
I am still trying to understand why Rumsfeld is Sec. of Defense. He booted out a majority of military brass at the Pentagon. Colin Powell did not serve another term as Sec. of State. He grew disgusted with Rumsfeld. Rummy did not like Powell because Powell stood up to Rummy. Don does not like when he is challenged in a dis-agreement.
I hope that President Bush opens his eyes to the fact that Rummy hates military folks. He (Rummy) would much rather have a small military with total civilian control. Old Donald needs to step down. He is scary because of remarks he has made and his past practices.
Maybe the Sec. of Defense should be replaced. I respect President Bush and how he is handling the war. He had a lot fall on his plate 9-11-01. Maybe Rummy is using smoke and mirrors to blindside Pres. Bush.
Research Rumsfeld. You will be shocked to find out how much he has botched up in U.S. history.
I would like to see Colin Powell and Stormin Normin run for the White House. I worked for them in Gulf War I. They are true men to their words. They would probably take Don Rummy to the nearest nursing home.

God Bless America
Pat Carol :usa

[BradfordBenn]

Gnome - I'll join you in that beer :drink :brad :beer

[username]

Inane babble deleted.

loraze,

you obviously know NOTHING about being a proper hypocrite, nor a deeply repressed puritanical a-hole. youre too open, too laid back, to understand why it is so important that everyone be uptight and get not only their national defense, but their morals and their allowable recreational drugs from the government. i pay a lot of taxes every year, and gosh darn it, i dont want access to a drug that will totally mellow me out and make me eat an entire pizza. in case you havent noticed, we have an obesity problem in america, and if we legalize marijuana, we're going to have to start implanting titanium femurs in people so they can walk!

im not even going to waste time trying to explain it to you, you wouldnt get it. youre just too hung up on archaic ideas like "live and let live" and "personal responsibilty" and all that. like a true talk radio host, after dismissing you as a waste of time, i will now bellow on about it anyway.

let me see if i can make this simple enough for you:

1. all drugs are bad. drugs are defined as illegal substances like weed, smack, crank, ice, blow, and maui wowee. alcohol is not a drug. nicotine is not a drug. all those anti-depressants that people are taking, and all the ritalin kids are popping, are NOT drugs.

2. if my wife and i are foolish enough remain in this g*ddam miserable, loveless, sexless marriage (which when it *was* passionate, "racy" involved inverting the baseline sexual position of me on top) then no one else is going to have a guilt-free, enjoyable sex life either! that includes you! dont get me going on the gays! everyone knows that AIDS was sent by god to punish them. and i cant believe i have to spell this out so clearly to you - one does not pay prostitutes for sex, one pays them to leave when it's over.

3. stop thinking, and start obeying. this country was founded on obedience! oh wait... crap. well, it was founded on the idea that one pious group, if they shouted loudly enough, should determine what others are allowed to do... hmmm, that's not it. darn, i feel like i'm losing my steam here. JUST OBEY! if you dont think about it, youre fine.

:D

[lorazepam]

loraze,

you obviously know NOTHING about being a proper hypocrite, nor a deeply repressed puritanical a-hole. youre too open, too laid back, to understand why it is so important that everyone be uptight and get not only their national defense, but their morals and their allowable recreational drugs from the government. i pay a lot of taxes every year, and gosh darn it, i dont want access to a drug that will totally mellow me out and make me eat an entire pizza. in case you havent noticed, we have an obesity problem in america, and if we legalize marijuana, we're going to have to start implanting titanium femurs in people so they can walk!

im not even going to waste time trying to explain it to you, you wouldnt get it. youre just too hung up on archaic ideas like "live and let live" and "personal responsibilty" and all that. like a true talk radio host, after dismissing you as a waste of time, i will now bellow on about it anyway.

let me see if i can make this simple enough for you:

1. all drugs are bad. drugs are defined as illegal substances like weed, smack, crank, ice, blow, and maui wowee. alcohol is not a drug. nicotine is not a drug. all those anti-depressants that people are taking, and all the ritalin kids are popping, are NOT drugs.

2. if my wife and i are foolish enough remain in this g*ddam miserable, loveless, sexless marriage (which when it *was* passionate, "racy" involved inverting the baseline sexual position of me on top) then no one else is going to have a guilt-free, enjoyable sex life either! that includes you! dont get me going on the gays! everyone knows that AIDS was sent by god to punish them. and i cant believe i have to spell this out so clearly to you - one does not pay prostitutes for sex, one pays them to leave when it's over.

3. stop thinking, and start obeying. this country was founded on obedience! oh wait... crap. well, it was founded on the idea that one pious group, if they shouted loudly enough, should determine what others are allowed to do... hmmm, that's not it. darn, i feel like i'm losing my steam here. JUST OBEY! if you dont think about it, youre fine.

:D


I am wondering if kbasa is entirely spastic or just partially so.

[YB in IN]

loraze,

you obviously know NOTHING about being a proper hypocrite, nor a deeply repressed puritanical a-hole. youre too open, too laid back, to understand why it is so important that everyone be uptight and get not only their national defense, but their morals and their allowable recreational drugs from the government. i pay a lot of taxes every year, and gosh darn it, i dont want access to a drug that will totally mellow me out and make me eat an entire pizza. in case you havent noticed, we have an obesity problem in america, and if we legalize marijuana, we're going to have to start implanting titanium femurs in people so they can walk!

im not even going to waste time trying to explain it to you, you wouldnt get it. youre just too hung up on archaic ideas like "live and let live" and "personal responsibilty" and all that. like a true talk radio host, after dismissing you as a waste of time, i will now bellow on about it anyway.

let me see if i can make this simple enough for you:

1. all drugs are bad. drugs are defined as illegal substances like weed, smack, crank, ice, blow, and maui wowee. alcohol is not a drug. nicotine is not a drug. all those anti-depressants that people are taking, and all the ritalin kids are popping, are NOT drugs.

2. if my wife and i are foolish enough remain in this g*ddam miserable, loveless, sexless marriage (which when it *was* passionate, "racy" involved inverting the baseline sexual position of me on top) then no one else is going to have a guilt-free, enjoyable sex life either! that includes you! dont get me going on the gays! everyone knows that AIDS was sent by god to punish them. and i cant believe i have to spell this out so clearly to you - one does not pay prostitutes for sex, one pays them to leave when it's over.

3. stop thinking, and start obeying. this country was founded on obedience! oh wait... crap. well, it was founded on the idea that one pious group, if they shouted loudly enough, should determine what others are allowed to do... hmmm, that's not it. darn, i feel like i'm losing my steam here. JUST OBEY! if you dont think about it, youre fine.

:D



:rofl :rofl :rofl

[GeoffMiller]

:lol

[CJM]

Our Prisons are overflowing because they are full of folks comitting victimless crimes. (drug realted) We have too many laws on the books now that arent enforced properly, and making more laws does nothing to address that problem. All it does is remove more of your freedoms, and when those laws are not enforced, more are made to erode our personal liberties and on and on.

We need to legalize drugs, and those that have a problem with them need to have treatment, if that treatment includes putting them where they cant get drugs, then incarcerate them.

To put a productive citizen in jail because he likes to catch a buzz from pot and not alcohol, to me is very wrong. The same with prostitution. If some guy want to get laid and pay someone for the privilage why should he go to jail? Why should the prostitute go to jail? Explain to me what the logic in this is?

Answering because drugs and prostitution are illegal is a copout. This is more of the enforcement of morals upon the citizens of the state, and it is rapidly getting worse.

Remove the patriot act, and laws against prostitution and drugs. You want to stop drug viloence, make it legal and the turf wars and gang violence will stop with the legalization.

Oh geez we cant to that though, all the legalized piracy comitted by LEO's and the coast guard would have to cease, and all the money and property seized returned. Where oh where would they get all the "dare corvettes" and nice fancy boats that are "trophies" taken from the evil drug doers?

Drugs trafficking a victomless crime? Where did you get that idea?

I'll just quote Hoyt on this to let ya'll know wher I stand on the victomless crime of dealers:

"The dealer is a monster....good God he's not a natural man.....
for a nickel he'll sell you lots of sweat dreams.......

If I were the president of this land,
You know I'd declare total war on the pusherman..
I'd cut him if he stands,
I'd shoot him if runs
I'd kill him with my bible
And I'd RAISE THE RENT....
Now God-Damn the pusher"

As preformed by Steppenwolf
Written by Hoyt Axton who also wrote "Snow Blind Friend"

If you had ever known a victom of the drug trade I fail to understand how you could call it a victomless crime.

This reminds me of another acronym. Lawman will know this one:

DSAF

MTBATP

[BubbaZanetti]

Drugs trafficking a victomless crime? Where did you get that idea?

eliminate the trafficking, eliminate the crime? sounds like a good enough reason for legalization in my book.
:dunno

[lorazepam]

Drugs trafficking a victomless crime? Where did you get that idea?


MTBATP

I dont understand how quoting hoyt axton makes a point that drug trafficing isnt a victimless crime. I can quote 30 or 40 songs about drugs, depends on what you want to say about them.

Having spent 8 years as a LEO (yes I was a cop) I discovered that be it heroin or bud light, if you abuse your drug of choice, you will not be a very productive person.

You want to stop drug related crime? Legalize it. Get the cocaine wars off the street. And the way some have written in here, you would think that heroin use is done by every third person that has ever tried smoking pot.

Amazing how uneducated opinions can be spouted as fact on almost every subject we discuss on the board.

[BradfordBenn]

From Base Closure to Legalizing Drugs man does this board work tangentially or what.

[Gnome]

From Base Closure to Legalizing Drugs man does this board work tangentially or what.


I was sitting here thinking the same thing,and laughing my arse off :lol

[username]

From Base Closure to Legalizing Drugs man does this board work tangentially or what.

the topics change, but the quality of discussion on the non-motorcycle stuff is dang abyssmal. i wish people would overtly phrase opinions as opinions, and stop acting like they are facts, and then arguing back and forth. that drives me nuts.

[kbasa]

I would like to see Colin Powell and Stormin Normin run for the White House.

God Bless America
Pat Carol :usa

There's a couple of guys I can respect. :thumb

[kbasa]

I am wondering if kbasa is entirely spastic or just partially so.

thoroughly and completely.

[MarkF]

the topics change, but the quality of discussion on the non-motorcycle stuff is dang abyssmal. i wish people would overtly phrase opinions as opinions, and stop acting like they are facts, and then arguing back and forth. that drives me nuts.

Is that your opinion or a fact? :stick

[BradfordBenn]

My opinion is that everything I say is a fact, even my opinions are facts. :stick ;)

[Gnome]

Hey Bradford Ben, or any one else,are you going to the Rocket Rally in Huntsville?
I am.
I'll be signing autographs.Ya know I'm famous now since I got a thread going about Military bases shutting down. Got 5 pages out of it and three pages on a tangent! sheeeeeeeeeeeee-it far.

See yall at the chicken Rally(Rocket Rally),all the chicken you can eat and great fun!!!

[username]

Is that your opinion or a fact? :stick

it's definitely a fact. i mean come on, anyone who thinks the discussion is good, is obviously a dimwit. duh! take this thread for example. here i am complaining about people being annoying and stating opinions as facts, and then i go and do JUST THAT in the VERY POST where i complain about it. if that isnt abyssmal, what is?

see my earlier comments regarding irony if you need help understanding where i am coming from. :brow

[lorazepam]

it's definitely a fact. i mean come on, anyone who thinks the discussion is good, is obviously a dimwit. duh! take this thread for example. here i am complaining about people being annoying and stating opinions as facts, and then i go and do JUST THAT in the VERY POST where i complain about it. if that isnt abyssmal, what is?

see my earlier comments regarding irony if you need help understanding where i am coming from. :brow
Do you have a cover on your irony board, to help make the irony easier?

[BradfordBenn]

Hey Bradford Ben, or any one else,are you going to the Rocket Rally in Huntsville?

Sorry, but I will be doing the Bonzai Rally in Wisconsin and the surrounding states that weekend. We expect a report though.

[MarkF]

it's definitely a fact. i mean come on, anyone who thinks the discussion is good, is obviously a dimwit. duh! take this thread for example. here i am complaining about people being annoying and stating opinions as facts, and then i go and do JUST THAT in the VERY POST where i complain about it. if that isnt abyssmal, what is?

EXCELLENT!