MSF Basic Class opinions wanted

[Rbike]

My wife, Chicklet, just bought a used Buell Blast to get back into riding. She doesn't have much experience riding, probably only owned a bike for about a year over 15 years ago, and no training. I got her started on a Yamama XT 350 with the throttle zip tied almost shut. Now it's time for some official training because we all know that you can't learn anything from your signifcant other.

I have heard some moaning and groaning about the MSF classes changing, and here in CO the classes are put on by ABATE. I took the experienced rider course years ago in AZ and felt that I improved more in that one day than I had on my own in the previous 10 years.

Is the class worth $185? Is there any problem with ABATE putting it on? (I don't want "no helmet" being preached, but I do respect freedom of choice.)

Anbody taken the entry level class lately?

[solman]

I took the MSF classes here in FC many years ago when it was held in/at city facilities. I don't even remember who sponsored the classes. Therefore my opinion may not be of much help to you, i.e. comparing apples and oranges.

That aside, I took the classes before buying my first bike (an old Yamaha 650 buzzer) and soon graduated to a new 920 within less than a year. I likely never would have purchased the first ride and certainly not have approached the second without the lessons learned and confidence gained from the classes. While they assuredly recommended wearing helmets (and all other associated safe riding gear), they never got preachy about it. The stories and experiences shared by the instructors and helpers were also of great value in learning how to keep two wheels on the ground at all times. I have always and will continue to advise anyone thinking about acquiring a motorcyle to take the Basic MSF class before even venturing into a garage or showroom.

-solman

[username]

i think it's worth it. i'm a new rider (in my 2nd year) and i took the MSF prior to purchasing a bike. it put me in the right frame of mind and taught me good habits before i hit the road, figuratively and literally.

to me it's like gear. is good gear worth it? well, only in an emergency, at which point it's too late to change your mind.

think of it not as a $185 expense, but an investment to keep her in your life and on a bike.

[BradfordBenn]

It was a great class for me. Also at the classes in Indiana, it is all the gear all the time that is preached. Even though it is sponsored by ABATE, I think it is a national curriculum

[riderR1150GSAdv]

I started riding after a 20 years hiatus and really found the MSF classes very usefull.
You can't be tought experience, that will come in time, but at least get the right habits going and feel more confident while riding. :thumb

[Montana]

The comments about the class "changing" has to do with an update to what now is called the BRC or beginning rider course, as opposed to the various previous versions (RSS, MRC). Your provider may or may not have converted to the BRC, so don't listen to what anyone says about specifics unless they've had the course you're interested in and from the same provider. Generally, any class is better than no class, for the most part. You might want to confirm that successful completion entitles your wife to an insurance discount or a riding skills test waiver at your DMV or whatever else is important, beyond learning and improving her bike handling skills.

[Gnome]

=
P= Please
F= For
T=The
L=Love
O=Of
C=Christ
T=Take
A=a
MSF
C=Class


You'll be glad you did,and you'll get 10% off your insurance in most cases. :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb :thumb

[BMWBeauty]

I Took The Course ( April 05) And I Do Suggest It....It Was A Weekend Well Spent...
I Was Amazed At The Number Of Women Riders TakingThe Course....Almost Half Of The 24 In The Class Were Women Riders....
They Didn't Preach Helmets...They Just Suggested AAGATT... I Wouldn't Even Consider Riding WithOut It....( I Am Also A Nurse) ....But I Understand It's A Personal Choice.... I Also Received My Endorsement When I Completed The Course....

[YB in IN]

It was a great class for me. Also at the classes in Indiana, it is all the gear all the time that is preached. Even though it is sponsored by ABATE, I think it is a national curriculum


That's interesting to me that the Indiana ABATE people were preaching ATGATT when they are the ones more or less responsible for keeping helmet laws off the books in our fair state. I happened upon the local ABATE meeting in Bloomington (at a bar no less) and there wasn't a decent piece of safety gear in sight. :dunno

[rottenbiker]

I am the site administrator and one of the rider coaches that teaches at the Ft Collins FRCC site, I am a subcontractor and a member of Abate of Colorado. We DO Not preach no helmet, we do encourage riders to speak up for their rights as a rider and become involved. We also encourage riders to educate themselves. I took this course after 19 yrs of riding and so fully believed in learning all I could I then became a rider coach, I have been teaching almost fulltime for 11yrs now and running a training site for Abate since '98. I am also certified in several other states as well as teach for them and can tell you Abate of Colorado has one of the best programs out there! The class is well worth the 185.00 most states charge more. And thanks to Abate the program is still in effect that Co MOST program picks up part of the cost of the class for residents non-residents pay 275.00. Hope this answers your questions

[bikerfish1100]

Is the class worth $185? Is there any problem with ABATE putting it on? (I don't want "no helmet" being preached, but I do respect freedom of choice.)

in order: 1) YES, most students say it is well worth the $185. I always ask my students when we are finished, regardless of successful completion of the test or not, a series of questions, such as: "did you have a good time? did you learn something of value? are you glad you took the course? would you recommend it to a friend? are you a better rider today than you were 3 days ago?" the answers are uniformly YES! Even experienced riders feel they learn something of real value from the BRC. The ERC is a very similar course, done on your own bike, with much less "intro to biking 101" content.
2) NO, there's no problem withABATE teaching teh course. ABATE teaches to MSF standards, and as such must teach the course as every other MSF program in every other state teaches it. your wife will get the safety message, quite clearly. i taught in CT for a few years before coming to CO. The course content is identical. virtually every RC (rider coach) that teaches at FRCC wears a FF helmet, full-time, myself included. come on down some weekend and watch what happens, talk to a coach during a lunch break, find out what we are all about. also- show up at County Cork on Drake for a 3rd Monday of the month meeting of Twisted Shaft MC (7pm)- we did a group ERC for about 20 members of the club a few weeks ago, and many have been thru the course. ask them what they think!

[YB in IN]

I am the site administrator and one of the rider coaches that teaches at the Ft Collins FRCC site, I am a subcontractor and a member of Abate of Colorado. We DO Not preach no helmet, we do encourage riders to speak up for their rights as a rider and become involved. We also encourage riders to educate themselves. I took this course after 19 yrs of riding and so fully believed in learning all I could I then became a rider coach, I have been teaching almost fulltime for 11yrs now and running a training site for Abate since '98. I am also certified in several other states as well as teach for them and can tell you Abate of Colorado has one of the best programs out there! The class is well worth the 185.00 most states charge more. And thanks to Abate the program is still in effect that Co MOST program picks up part of the cost of the class for residents non-residents pay 275.00. Hope this answers your questions

It sounds to me like the CO ABATE has their stuff together a bit more than out here. Most of the people in ABATE that I've met here, and I'm not trying to make a blanket judgement about all members of ABATE everywhere, have been very much in line with the wannabe outlaw biker crap. There is a huge essentially Harley only gathering about 20 minutes away from here that is held every year that for entrance you must be a member of a state-level motorcycle rightrs organization, which if you read between the lines means ABATE. Basically it's nothing but a typical get as blitzed as possible and try to see women flashing their breasts sort of thing. It's not an organization that I'm planning on joining anytime soon because of the kind of thing that they encourage. I do admit though that I'm happy to live in a state that still allows people to make their own choice about how they live their lives and that includes wearing a helmet or not. I think that it may eventually change, but for now we still have that choice. Also, I think that the MSF courses only cost like 25 bucks or something, so they may be doing something right. I guess that I was surprised by Brad's comments about what sort of thing he was taught at the MSF course because it was so different from my own experience.

[Bfish]

got back into riding after 30 years. first thing i did was take the course. MO is that it did not help so much in riding/handling but enforces the mental side of riding very well. plus you get your license. i'd sign her up if she was my wife.

[lorazepam]

I Took The Course ( April 05) And I Do Suggest It....It Was A Weekend Well Spent...
I Was Amazed At The Number Of Women Riders TakingThe Course....Almost Half Of The 24 In The Class Were Women Riders....
They Didn't Preach Helmets...They Just Suggested AAGATT... I Wouldn't Even Consider Riding WithOut It....( I Am Also A Nurse) ....But I Understand It's A Personal Choice.... I Also Received My Endorsement When I Completed The Course....

Congratulations on the course! I knew you could do it, and I hope I get to see that nice blue RT on the road.

[BradfordBenn]

Also, I think that the MSF courses only cost like 25 bucks or something, so they may be doing something right. I guess that I was surprised by Brad's comments about what sort of thing he was taught at the MSF course because it was so different from my own experience.

I also know from other people a lot of it come from who is the actual instructor. My instructors both happen to ride BMW's, go figure. I still bump into them every so often and they still preach all the gear. Kind of like taking social studies in high school, the teacher could suck or be good, but they all teach the same currciculm.

To give you an idea of a problem, my wife and six others failed out of a class on the first day, despite the fact that her clutch was broken. Yup 7 out of a class of 16 failed out, do you think that there might be a problem with the instructor?

Also it is only $25 to take the class, but you have to pay $25 to join ABATE of Indiana which AFTER the class you can ask for it back so the net cost is $25.

Still worth it.

[bikerfish1100]

To give you an idea of a problem, my wife and six others failed out of a class on the first day, despite the fact that her clutch was broken. Yup 7 out of a class of 16 failed out, do you think that there might be a problem with the instructor?

Class of 16? REALLY?? MSF clearly states that for a standard sized range that only 12 students participate. For a non-standard (differently sized than std), that number could possibly be reduced. There is no provision for increasing a range to accomodate more riders. The classroom segment can accomodate up to 3 classes at once- to a max of 36 riders (tho ABATE will not go beyond 24 in a classroom).
If an instructor was indeed attempting to teach a clas of 16, then i would most definitely sat that there is a problem with that instructor.

[knary]

To give you an idea of a problem, my wife and six others failed out of a class on the first day, despite the fact that her clutch was broken. Yup 7 out of a class of 16 failed out, do you think that there might be a problem with the instructor?

Class of 16? REALLY?? MSF clearly states that for a standard sized range that only 12 students participate. For a non-standard (differently sized than std), that number could possibly be reduced. There is no provision for increasing a range to accomodate more riders. The classroom segment can accomodate up to 3 classes at once- to a max of 36 riders (tho ABATE will not go beyond 24 in a classroom).
If an instructor was indeed attempting to teach a clas of 16, then i would most definitely sat that there is a problem with that instructor.

12 is the standard size but there are, I thought, provisions for teaching more than that on the range IF the range is properly equipped and there are more than the usual 2 instructors. As for how many should or shouldn't fail in a particular class, that seems like a very high number but may be simple bad luck with the particular group of people enrolled. I once taught a class where 5 out of 12 failed - if you include the 2 that were politely asked to leave before we ever got to the test. It was not, IMHO, because of any failure on the instructor's part. The class simply is not capable of passing every person that is capable of learning to ride. Nor is every person a potential rider.

[BradfordBenn]

Sorry I probably got my numbers wrong. It was one less than half the class. I thought the class was 16 from memory... it has been about four years since I took the class.

[Rbike]

Thanks for all the input :thumb

I'm out of town again as usual and this was the first time I had a chance to come back and check on things.

I have been telling her she needs to take the class and buy her own helmet rather than wearing my old one when I buy a new one. I don't let her ride in traffic yet or without safety gear...which also still needs improving but is covering the essentials.

What things cause somone to fail out of the class?

[knary]

Thanks for all the input :thumb

I'm out of town again as usual and this was the first time I had a chance to come back and check on things.

I have been telling her she needs to take the class and buy her own helmet rather than wearing my old one when I buy a new one. I don't let her ride in traffic yet or without safety gear...which also still needs improving but is covering the essentials.

What things cause somone to fail out of the class?

the gross overview
1. falling down and/or losing control of the motorcycle during the riding test.
2. being a real danger to others.
3. making too many mistakes on the riding test.
4. failing the written test (rare!)

As for what mistakes students usually make (#3), it's the usual basic stuff: looking where they don't want to go (a nice formula for running over cones) and not looking where they do want to go, being too tentative with the brakes during the braking test, and not quite grasping counter-steering.

I haven't taught in several years. Some of the current instructors should have some good information. Head and eyes up, and smooth on the controls goes a long way.

[BMWBeauty]

Thanks for all the input :thumb

I'm out of town again as usual and this was the first time I had a chance to come back and check on things.

I have been telling her she needs to take the class and buy her own helmet rather than wearing my old one when I buy a new one. I don't let her ride in traffic yet or without safety gear...which also still needs improving but is covering the essentials.

What things cause somone to fail out of the class?


A Helmet Is Required For The Class....If She Doesn't Have An Approved Helmet, They Will Provide One For Her....They Do Require Goggles If The Helmet Isn't A Full Face Helmet....Most Of The Lady Riders In My Class Had Full Face Helmets....The Harley Riding Women Were Given Helmets (Imagine That!).... Also In The Sate Of Ohio Where I Received My Endorsement, You Are Required To Wear A Helmet Your First Year Of Endorsement..(Section 4511.53)...Good Luck To Her...And I Hope She Does Take The Class.... :)

[BradfordBenn]

What things cause somone to fail out of the class?

My wife failed out for consistently stalling her bike, something about a broken clutch cable... Someone failed out of my class for not listening to the instructor and stopping when indicated, that was twice... the third strike was when they tried to ride the motorcycle up the ramp into the trailer - yes the engine was running.

Really if she pays attention it is not that hard. I went in the class having never ridden before and I passed no problem.

[BobFV1]

She should take the course. Any amount of time spent training is extremely worthwhile. My 20 year old son has been riding for two years and has done one cross-country (1000 mile, 3-day) trip with me but has never taken the BRC so guess what - he is enrolled to take it early next month!

[BklynPete]

i took the course after not riding for 13 years while the kids were growing up. i thought it was a great course and tell everyone i know that wants to learn to ride to take it. i also take the experienced course whenever i get a new bike, it makes it easier that the course is given during a national meet. no one mentioned that bmw pays for the course if you buy a bmw motorcycle within a year before or after the course. i'm sure there may be other mfg's that do the same, if they don't, they should. :thumb

pete