Lazer exhaust - dont buy

[twins4life]

The $775 staintune exhaust I just installed is melting my OEM saddle bags. Staintune says their stuff is ok with factory equipment (incuding OEM saddlebags) but they lie.

The muffler has no heat shield and is too short (forward in the frame) so the exiting hot exhaust gas comes into contact with the saddle bags.

[username]

i've got a stain tune on my 02 r1150ra. it has the exhaust lowering kit installed, and i use a full size RT bag. the bag has a heat shield (foil-looking thing) glued to the bottom of it. no heat issues. no melting.

can you post photos of your setup and damage?

[twins4life]

I sure will. I'll be home later this afternoon. Did the heatsheld stuff come with the Staintune?

[username]

don't know. it was on the bike from the previous owner. someone else with RT bags can tell us if theyve got it on theirs.

[breyfogle]

I bought a new set of BMW bags when I bought my used 94 RS about two years ago. The LH bag came with an aluminum foil looking heatshield glued to its underside.

[username]

duh. i'm a dope. the muffler was on the bike, but i bought the bags myself. the heat shield patch was in place when i bought them.

[twins4life]

melted OEM saddle bag

[twins4life]

Staintune exhaust

[twins4life]

bracket

[breyfogle]

melted OEM saddle bag

Wow, Guess this picture settles any question about the need for the heat shield ...

[bugley]

RT & RS bags (same item) have the aluminum heat shield as stock but I don't think the ones for the R have this item. In any event, it is doubtful that the hot excaping exhaust gases are causing this problem, rather not enough clearance between the bag and the pipe - hence the need for the shield.

Have Staintune on my RS with stock RS/RT bags, with heatshield and have never had a problem.

Your local HVAC supply house or HomeDepot can have you fixed up in short order.

Or, you could leave it as it is so you can heat your lunch while on the road!

Keep the Staintune, you'll love it.

[twins4life]

Actually the melted part is past the muffler and definately caused by the exhaust gas.

What am I looking for at Home Depot? Some sort of heat shield?

[bmwmick]

That muffler looks nothing like a Staintune.
http://www.staintune.com.au/exhausts/bmw/BMW%20R1200%20GS%20Muffler%20Closeup.htm

I've never seen one with external rivets either, mine are all welded.

The heatshield will be aluminum and fiberglass, sandwiched. My RT also came with the heat shield from the factory on the left side bag. It''s been HOT but never melted.

[twins4life]

I dont know what to say... It had a Staintune label on the parts bags and one to go on the muffler.

????????????

[bmwmick]

Staintune is stamped into the metal like on the closeup I posted above. I'll bet they just used the Staintune 'mounting' hardware on someone elses pipe.
I may just be leading a sheltered life too. :dunno

[twins4life]

Found part of the problem. It is a Lazer Exhaust *NOT* Staintune.

I placed the order on the phone and we talked about several options, I decided on the Staintune SS system. He must have shipped the wrong kind, not much I can do about it now. Wonder if I paid a higher price for the Staintune and ended up with a lesser quality (?) system.

grrrrrrrrrrrr :banghead

[bmwmick]

Found part of the problem. It is a Lazer Exhaust *NOT* Staintune.

I placed the order on the phone and we talked about several options, I decided on the Staintune SS system. He must have shipped the wrong kind, not much I can do about it now. Wonder if I paid a higher price for the Staintune and ended up with a lesser quality (?) system.

grrrrrrrrrrrr :banghead

Hmmmmm,
Staintune is usually the high cost leader. Never seen a lazer till yours.

[Ozonkiller]

Race car shops sell heat shielding. It comes in a sheet that you can cut with scissors and glue on with 3M sray adhesive. I've used it many times to protect the body work on my road race bikes.

[RTdavey]

Twins-
I'm confused, in an earlier post you stated you were deciding between a "Staintune" and a "Lazer" exhaust system.

Then, you talk about what a mistake it is to buy a staintune, which in fact it turns out to be a Lazer??? with a poor fit???
As far as I'm concerned, Staintune has a very good rep for fit and finish, just a little more $$$ than others.

Go to your local welding supply house, buy a sheet of "heat blocker" shield.( I use these all the time, brazing (welding) for HVAC purposes.) real cheap, no name brand needed to get confused.

[twins4life]

Twins-
I'm confused, in an earlier post you stated you were deciding between a "Staintune" and a "Lazer" exhaust system.

Then, you talk about what a mistake it is to buy a staintune, which in fact it turns out to be a Lazer??? with a poor fit???
As far as I'm concerned, Staintune has a very good rep for fit and finish, just a little more $$$ than others.

Go to your local welding supply house, buy a sheet of "heat blocker" shield.( I use these all the time, brazing (welding) for HVAC purposes.) real cheap, no name brand needed to get confused.

I decided to buy a Staintune but was shipped Laser (sure looks like a Staintune). When it came in it looked so much like a Staintune I didnt catch it.

You are correct, my post SHOULD read: "Laser: dont buy".

This whole thread is now about LASER exhausts NOT Staintune.


Speed shop (to buy selfadhesive radiant barrier), are there any online you suggest?

[username]

can the mods rename the thread? seems wrong to have a thread so blatantly, yet erroneously slamming staintune when so many of us dig it.

[twins4life]

can the mods rename the thread? seems wrong to have a thread so blatantly, yet erroneously slamming staintune when so many of us dig it.


Good idea.

[TBonesR1100]

...on my 2004 R1100S...Love it...No issues with fit & finish. Makes it even sound like a twin! I did a bit of due diligence and these pipes are the best value for the money...I have no preacticle experience with Lasers...

[BradfordBenn]

can the mods rename the thread?

Good idea.

As you guys requested... it has been renamed.

[username]

brad, like staintune, rules.

[twins4life]

The saga continues...

They said I installed it wrong, I sent pictures of the install, they no longer say it is installed wrong but have offered to "help" repair the saddle bag but have refused a refund.

Let me get this straight, they accused me of installing it incorrectly, then when I proved them wrong via pictures they admit that their product caused the heat damage and offered to "help" fix the damaged saddle bags but wont give a refund??

It is now in dispute with my bank. Stay tuned... DONT BUY LASER EXHAUSTS.

One more thing, they gave me the part number for a heat shield and suggested that I purchase one.

All this despite the claim that their stuff is 100% compatabile with OEM equipment.

[BklynPete]

The saga continues...

They said I installed it wrong, I sent pictures of the install, they no longer say it is installed wrong but have offered to "help" repair the saddle bag but have refused a refund.

Let me get this straight, they accused me of installing it incorrectly, then when I proved them wrong via pictures they admit that their product caused the heat damage and offered to "help" fix the damaged saddle bags but wont give a refund??

It is now in dispute with my bank. Stay tuned... DONT BUY LASER EXHAUSTS.

One more thing, they gave me the part number for a heat shield and suggested that I purchase one.

All this despite the claim that their stuff is 100% compatabile with OEM equipment.

i guess i'm a bit confused, who did you order the pipe from? was it a dist that handled both pipes? who is giving you a hard time, the company laser or the people you bought the pipe from. i have a laser pipe, along with their chip. they have been on my bike for over 50k miles and i guess i'm more fortunate, no issues with my bags on a 99 r1100rt. laser also supplied the pipes for the memola special r1100s. i like my set-up, in fact, when i get the new r1200rt, i was planning on doing it agan. i guess if i do, i will check to make sure the exhaust is not hitting the rear bags directly.

pete

[twins4life]

I ordered them from Spiegler, they arent taking any steps to assist except to forward my emails to Laser.

Glad they arent melting your bags.... The Laser exhaust ruined one of mine.

[MarkF]

is you paid for a staintune, got a cheaper Lazer, which caused the damage. I say they should replace your lazer with a staintune and replace the damaged parts. I would settle for nothing less.

[BklynPete]

I ordered them from Spiegler, they arent taking any steps to assist except to forward my emails to Laser.

Glad they arent melting your bags.... The Laser exhaust ruined one of mine.

i just looked under my left side bag and it has a heat shield on it. tell you the truth, not sure if it came that way or my mechanic installed it with the pipe. it must do the job, because i always keep, tools, tire plug kit, compressor, rain gear, bike cover and an electric vest in that side bag. i got mine from spiegler also, that's too bad that they are treating you so shabbly. hope everything works out for you.

pete

[username]

ok, so what i am hearing is two things here, maybe more. this is a pretty wacky situation.

1. spiegler is giving you poor service.

2. the lazer pipe, without heat shield, is bad for the bike. another user with a heat shield has no issues. so i'd say that the lazer exhaust itself is not an issue, but the proper installation thereof, and making sure that all the parts are present. to me this is like saying that BMW bikes suck and leak oil, and the drain plug isnt installed...

3. did you specifically order a stain-tune? and they sent the wrong dang muffler? and youre keeping it? if this is true, i must ask why youre doing that. if you went to all the trouble to do the research and select stain-tune, why arent you insisting that you get the right muffler?

can you prove that you ordered a stain-tune part number and they sent the wrong thing? is this even what happened?

i feel like every so often a fact emerges. at the very beginning of this thread, your contention was that stain-tune sucked. an observation from someone from one of your photos pointed out that you didnt even have a stain-tune exhaust. i'm not trying to be a dick, but if you didnt even notice *that,* i'm taking the rest of your opinions, evaluations, and admonitions with a really big grain of salt.

i look forward to hearing more facts.

[kbasa]

Our half bag has shielding right from the factory.

You might want to check with the dealer to see if they can get it for you.

I'd also be all over Spiegler to get that Lazer replaced with the Staintune you paid for.

[RTdavey]

"i feel like every so often a fact emerges. at the very beginning of this thread, your contention was that stain-tune sucked. an observation from someone from one of your photos pointed out that you didnt even have a stain-tune exhaust. i'm not trying to be a dick, but if you didnt even notice *that,* i'm taking the rest of your opinions, evaluations, and admonitions with a really big grain of salt."

Username -
Dude you rock!
You're the kinda guy I could chat scooters with.
(like you're astute, man).

[twins4life]

ok, so what i am hearing is two things here, maybe more. this is a pretty wacky situation.

1. spiegler is giving you poor service.

2. the lazer pipe, without heat shield, is bad for the bike. another user with a heat shield has no issues. so i'd say that the lazer exhaust itself is not an issue, but the proper installation thereof, and making sure that all the parts are present. to me this is like saying that BMW bikes suck and leak oil, and the drain plug isnt installed...

3. did you specifically order a stain-tune? and they sent the wrong dang muffler? and youre keeping it? if this is true, i must ask why youre doing that. if you went to all the trouble to do the research and select stain-tune, why arent you insisting that you get the right muffler?

can you prove that you ordered a stain-tune part number and they sent the wrong thing? is this even what happened?

i feel like every so often a fact emerges. at the very beginning of this thread, your contention was that stain-tune sucked. an observation from someone from one of your photos pointed out that you didnt even have a stain-tune exhaust. i'm not trying to be a dick, but if you didnt even notice *that,* i'm taking the rest of your opinions, evaluations, and admonitions with a really big grain of salt.

i look forward to hearing more facts.

Dude, you need a beer or something... Such hostility, wow. I'm sorry I ruined your life. Here is a number you can call in case I post anything else that upsets you: 1-800-784-2433

FYI it was a verbal order on the phone, it would be my word against theirs and it is in dispute now. Step 1 is to get the Laser returned, step 2 is to select a replacement, Remus or Staintune.

[username]

Dude, you need a beer or something...

the beer was excellent, good idea! :thumb

Such hostility, wow. I'm sorry I ruined your life. Here is a number you can call in case I post anything else that upsets you: 1-800-784-2433

see, it's responses like this that i'm talking about. what are you trying to accomplish? this looks like lashing out. this, combined with the lashing out against "stain-tune" at the origination of this thread tells me that you dont think very long before you speak. remember, you blamed stain-tune, when the real issue is that either you or a person taking your order or a guy packing a box made an error. just slow down dude and hesitate before you assign blame.

FYI it was a verbal order on the phone, it would be my word against theirs and it is in dispute now. Step 1 is to get the Laser returned, step 2 is to select a replacement, Remus or Staintune.

there we go - useful information. perfect, and thank you. now, after quite a long period of time, we can understand how the error may have been made. now we know that it was a verbal transaction, not a web transaction. that more effectively communicates the likelihood of there being an error, and also highlights where your frustration comes from, because it's now a he-said-she-said situation. i can empathize with that, and i do.

i'm not hostile, sorry if it came off that way. i've just got a short fuse for people that condemn/publicly disparage something and dont give all the facts up front. a lot of people read this board and form opinions based upon what they read, so it is incumbent upon us whenever we post to stop and think about what we are doing and do the best job possible of explaining a situation and communicating.

let's sum up what we know:

- you have two issues. one, your bags were incorrectly assembled and two, an indeterminate error was made and you got the wrong exhaust.

- your bags didnt come with a heat shield like everyone else's. you have an issue with whoever you purchased the *bags* from not any exhaust provider. regardless, it is easy to remedy by heading to the dealer.

- you got the wrong exhaust from a company. you didnt notice that you didnt get what you ordered, and you installed it anyway. it damaged the saddle bag due to the above heat shield issue. your bike did not conform to OEM specifications prior to installing the exhaust. (i know this is an alien thought these days, but in this situation *you* are responsible for making sure the bike meets the OEM specs when youre doing your own installation.)

- your order was placed over the telephone and you have no written evidence that you ordered the correct part, nor that they made an error in taking the order, or shipping it or whatever. this is an unfortunate situation that arises with phone orders.

- in short, youre in a tough spot.

have you asked your fellow BMW enthusiasts for ideas on how to best deal with the situation or if theyve had this happen to them before, and how they handled it?

here's what i think the people said to you on the phone.

you: hey you sent the wrong muffler.

muffler people: crap. if you didnt use it, just send it back, we'll get you the right one.

you: i used it. it burned up my saddle bag.

muffler people: we dont accept used mufflers.

you: you sent me the wrong one.

muffler people: how do we know that? how do we know that you didnt order the lazer, and then youve simply decided you dont like it, and you want to swap it out?

you: [what you say right here likely determines if youre going to get good service, or get pushback.]

what *i* wouldve said is this: (i screw up all the time, and so i've got this speech down pat.)

me: i totally screwed up. i was sooooo excited to get the exhaust, i installed it without even looking closely at it. i can be really dopey sometimes, and this is one of those times. i have no excuse for my behavior, i just messed up. i'm hoping we can work this out. im really stressed because my saddle bag melted a bit, so i feel about as dumb as i can feel, and i need your help.

if you called them and accused them of shipping a crap product and wrecking your saddle bags, and demanded money for the bags and all that, well, youre gonna get pushback, and now that more light is being shed on this issue, your position is weakening.

there are lessons for all of us in this story, and they are not necessarily that any muffler manufacturer sucks, or that the folks who sold you the muffler suck.

[twins4life]

I'm glad you took my response humerously, thats the way it was intended.

Yes, I did not notice it wasnt a StainTune when I installed it. I have never seen either (Laser or Staintune) in person, only pictures. My mistake and I OK'd the moderator to correct the original post.

But the problem still remains. The Laser melted my saddle bag, FACT. I was told by Spiegler that what I ordered was 100% compatable with OEM, WRONG.
Speigler is being NO HELP and wont stand by the word of their sales staff, FACT. Laser has offered to "help in the repair of my OEM saddle bag" but wont address the real problem or refund, FACT.

The issue is that the muffler sits way to far forward in the frame and the hot exahust gas is melting the bag. The heat shield would help with RADIANT heat but IMO, will not help with 1000*F exhaust gas contacting the plastic saddle bags.

With the OEM muffler the exiting exhaust gas was at the rear edge of the bag, now with the Laser, the tip of the muffler is 1/4 to 1/3 towards the center of the bag. How do you fix such a stupid design flaw???

I am condemning/publicly disparaging this retailer and exhaust manufacturer for causing the damage and refusing to take the product back.

Hopefully others will avod this problem by buying from other resellers and exhaust manufacturers.

Lets meet at Pluckers at 183 & Burnet and I'll show you ( and I'll buy the beer )

[username]

I'm glad you took my response humerously, thats the way it was intended.

Lets meet at Pluckers at 183 & Burnet and I'll show you ( and I'll buy the beer )

note that i thought some more and edited my response. i think we were typing simultaneously. :D i still maintain that lacking the heat shield, your bike did not meet OEM specs. that sucks.

PM me - how often are you in austin? i like to ride to MF for breakfast on the weekends, so i can also meet you out there. i dont know what we'll accomplish with your muffler situation, but it's good to meet and shake hands. i'll tell you lies about what an awesome rider i am.

[BobFV1]

I ordered Two Brothers slip-ons for my Duc and I got Remus CF's instead. I ordered from a distributor who had the exhaust drop-shipped from the factory. Man am I glad - the Remus exhaust is fantastic.

Reading the thread, I have one question - did the seller ever claim that the Laser which they sent and you installed is in fact the appropriate Laser exhaust for your bike? If they sent the wrong exhaust brand, maybe they sent the wrong model as well - just a thought.

[twins4life]

I just went here: http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/MainDiagrams.asp?mospid=47947

and looked for a heatshield on the OEM bag, none is shown that I could see.

The bags went 30k+ miles without a heat problem with the OEM muffler. It took 4 miles to get melted with the Laser Exhaust. You decide.

I never debated with the retailer that they sent the wrong bags, I simply wanted anther brand exchanged or a refund. Getting into a he said / she said seemed to be a waste of time.

Username, do go to the Bluebonnet for breakfast? I'm in Austin as needed, I work out here. My wife rides her bike to work on Mopac and I ride in frequently and meet her for dinner and a ride home.

[username]

Username, do go to the Bluebonnet for breakfast? I'm in Austin as needed, I work out here. My wife rides her bike to work on Mopac and I ride in frequently and meet her for dinner and a ride home.

heck yes! i usually just sit at the counter and avoid the long line.

[twins4life]

How about the 18th?

[bmwmick]

I just went here: http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/MainDiagrams.asp?mospid=47947
and looked for a heatshield on the OEM bag, none is shown that I could see.

Twins,
Go here: http://tinyurl.com/c5sov and look at item #10. That is the adhesive backed heat shield. :)

That is the same P/N 46 54 2 316 611 as is used on my R1100RT left side bag.