VT in 2006 may be problematic

[Montana]

Two years ago the MT legislature proposed a bill to restrict events that involved exhibitions of speed and/or endurance. We would have been required to contact every jurisdiction through which an event passes and obtain permission. Since the Iron Butt Rally, the HOPE ride and various triathlons (at a minimum) would fall under this type of law, the proposal had to be addressed and was successfully defeated.

If our MOA annual rally is scheduled for Vermont in 2006, maybe everyone in BMW MOA should get involved in this, not just Vermonters...

AMA is sending out this notice:

Vermont's local lawmakers would have an easier time blocking motorcycle rides before they even start, under a bill introduced in the Vermont General Assembly. Introduced by state Reps. Richard Hube (R-Londonberry) and Richard Marek (D-Newfane), House Bill 421 would require leaders of an "organized motor vehicle event" to get a permit from the council or select board of any affected municipality. Failure to get the permission would result in a fine of up to $1,000 plus "reasonable costs incurred by the town as a result of the violation."

This proposal also would make it easier for towns to restrict the types of motor vehicles allowed on certain roads and trails because it would do away with the requirement that the town get approval from the state transportation director before restricting access to roads.

AMA notes that this bill would make it easier for local politicians to stop recreational motorcycle events in places like Jamaica, which inappropriately stopped a dual-sport ride before it began last summer.

Even though the Vermont Attorney General's Office took issue with many of the steps taken by Jamaica's Board of Selectmen and local law enforcement officers to stop the Red Fox Turkey Run last year, HB 421 would give even greater discretion to local politicians.

Also HB 421 defines an "organized motor vehicle event" so broadly that any group of seven or more motorcyclists (street or dual-purpose) would be required to get a permit to access town roads.

If you want to take action, go to the Statewatch section of http://www.amadirectlink.com/.

[MarkF]

The problem might end up being Vermont's. If they effectively outlaw the rally, with contracts in hand and reservations made. I can imagine what the Tourism and Chamber of Commerce would do if the MOA had to pull out or the rally had a sub 1,000 attendance. I would not worry. I'm sure Mike F and Rob N got their fingers on the pulse of Vermont.

[BradfordBenn]

Have no fear, the MOA office is already looking at it. I asked Ray Zimmerman about it, and the fast response before the bill was voted on gives me the feeling that it is being addressed.

However one of my understandings (and I am NOT a lawyer) is that since we are all going there to meet, not via coordinated routes, it would not be in violation of the law. This interpretation comes from the line of the bill

“Organized motor vehicle event” means an event which is sponsored or organized by a person, group, association, club, or organization and which involves directing or dispatching more than six motor vehicles to travel over municipal highways or legal town trails on a predetermined route or course. This shall include events such as organized automobile tours, recreational motorcycle riding events, and “steeplechase” events involving both on- and off‑road riding or driving."

You can see the whole text of the bill here (http://www.leg.state.vt.us/docs/legdoc.cfm?URL=/docs/2006/bills/intro/H-421.HTM) .

[einnar]

That law would tend to catch organized rides once you got there, though, would it not? And how would you prove that 6-10 people taking off in 1 direction for dinner from a campground of thousands aren't participating in an organized ride?

[username]

something tells me that there will be sweet deals on beemers at the police auction when 6,000 of us are in the clink in vermont. ;)

[kbasa]

OK, before everybody gets their knickers in a twist, let's make sure we all understand exactly what this bill is about.

Vermont has a class of public roads (Class 4?) that are listed as public roads, but are maintained by the residents. These roads don't get plowed, repaved, regraded or anything unless the residents pay for it. These are usually very, very, very lightly trafficked roads.

Now, a dirt bike club in New England has been running a ride for a few years, all enduro bikes. They've been using the Class 4 roads as part of the ride. What do you think happens to a dirt road when you send 400 bikes down it? And those are dirt bikes with knobbies and a bunch of guys out hauling ass?

Exactly. It rips the crap out of the road. So the residents, who now have to pay for the repairs, are pissed. That's why the law is there. It was written to keep big dirt bike rides off of Class 4 roads.

From what I've read, almost nobody expects this law to get passed.

For the loud pipes folks, understand that public annoyance by the habits of a few riders cause us all trouble. This scenario is a perfect example.

[James.A]

Let's face it, an officer will write a ticket when he has you pulled over citing any remotely relevant offense. This seems like the kind of ordinance that the local constables would be quite pleased to "utilize" to roadside a group of riders for scrutiny and revenue enhancement. PM me for the story of my $150 stopping-in-the-roadway ticket. Please indicate if you want the long version or the short version. This kind of issue makes me re-think my decision to NOT renew my ABATE membership.

[BradfordBenn]

This kind of issue makes me re-think my decision to NOT renew my ABATE membership.

You may want to think about AMA instead... IMHO they have a better lobbying record.

[lorazepam]

Let's face it, an officer will write a ticket when he has you pulled over citing any remotely relevant offense. This seems like the kind of ordinance that the local constables would be quite pleased to "utilize" to roadside a group of riders for scrutiny and revenue enhancement. PM me for the story of my $150 stopping-in-the-roadway ticket. Please indicate if you want the long version or the short version. This kind of issue makes me re-think my decision to NOT renew my ABATE membership.

Yes and on your way to Lima and in the state of Ohio (the enema state) please be careful of the State Highway Patrol. I have no problem with speeding tickets. I deserve every one I get.

The OSP are the kings of the cheap ticket. I got one in a speed trap via aircraft for following too closely on the expressway, I was two car lengths behind the only car and myself for 4 miles of interstate. I also got one for off the right side ( told I was left of center) during a troll for a DUI.

If they can, they will write for any violation they can think of.

[James.A]

Well Loraz, now we're on to something. If the Vermont law is enacted, then eventually overturned, The fines paid by out-of-staters is still money in the bank. My stopping-in-the-roadway ticket was a deputy trolling for a DUI. With my helmet on, he wouldn't get within 5 feet of me. It probably saved my ass. He did call in 2 squad cars for back-up. I gotta believe that if it was an old lady in a Buick stopped in the roadway, there would not have been a citation issued. I paid an attorney $150 to beat a $75 ticket on principle. That's the long and the short of it.

[Montana]

Isn't this "class 4 roads" issue something like the rules that restrict motorcycles from park roads and condo roads? Aren't motorcycles legitimate transportation? Why do we have to be careful in choosing where we live or who we decide to make friends with, in case we can't ride to our/their house? A resident is a citizen and may want to have some buddies over and finds they can't legally go to his house? Don't overlook that "enduro" bikes may be street legal. And as for "directing or dispatching more than six motor vehicles to travel over municipal highways or legal town trails on a predetermined route or course" I would refer you to the organized rides leaving from the rally site, the printed route maps found in the rally event manual for suggested area riding, and "municipal highways" starts to sound a bit more goal-oriented than controlling "a bunch of dirt bikers out of control in town."

[CustomSarge]

In Michigan, we had to restrict dirtbikes from state land trails; because they (or some of them) tore the trails up, causing ruts & erosion.
N considerations: 1> Landowners paying for outsiders abuse is, I feel, just cause for restriction. 2> Reasonable cyclists putting down a path to get to a campsite (or equ) maybe given the deference. (I know this is a potential policestate scenerio) 3> After >35 years riding, I've yet to encounter hostility when approached with reason & respect (except certain make scooter rallys). 4> It's their turf, all they can do is reduce their tourist income by such policies, if indesciminately administered (waah, it's a big country). Vote with your wallet & feet... <<<)))

[Joecubana]

[QUOTE=Montana]Two years ago the MT legislature proposed a bill to restrict events that involved exhibitions of speed and/or endurance. We would have been required to contact every jurisdiction through which an event passes and obtain permission.

Hopefully it shouldn't be that much of a problem....

In a previous life I worked for the PA Dept of Transportion. PA has had a similar law on the books for years, but it was sometime in the mid '80's that the DOT established a policy to enforce it. This especially was a pain for bicycle races and the bike leg of triathlons, because of course, bicycles are considered 'vehicles'.

My job as a upper middle level bureaucrat was to coordinate and issue these permits. I held sessions with the race organizers (I raced in many of these so I knew most of the organizers), explained the process, and really didn't have any problems. Most of the locals enjoyed the extra business and the festivities so this wan't a problem.

As Brad said, we are all coming seperately or in small groups, so this isn't really an organized ride as the law would define.....(we'll all meet at the NY border and come in 'not together' 200' feet apart!) :D

[MarkF]

[QUOTE=Montana]As Brad said, we are all coming seperately or in small groups, so this isn't really an organized ride as the law would define.....(we'll all meet at the NY border and come in 'not together' 200' feet apart!) :D

Better yet, all attendees should meet at the border and ride in together. Form up every hour or two and see if the government really wants 7,000 BMW riders with pockets full of credit cards pissed off at the beginning of 4 days in VT.

[knary]

Or we could ride in with big smiles and good manners and show them how real riders and good citizens behave.

[Montana]

("...required to contact every jurisdiction through which an event passes and obtain permission." Montana quote)

Hopefully it shouldn't be that much of a problem....

... I held sessions with the race organizers (I raced in many of these so I knew most of the organizers), explained the process, and really didn't have any problems. Most of the locals enjoyed the extra business and the festivities so this wan't a problem.
Tell it to the Iron Butt Rally organizers, or the Lawman 1000. Try getting permissions from ALL jurisdictions over a course of 1,000 miles, even if that stays in one state...it's all about enforcement, as our ex-"reasonable and prudent" speeding laws proved.

I agree with Markf and knary, make a big parade, bike after bike after bike, and flash your credit card as you go out of town on your way to the next state that welcomes you.

[dataman]

As a lifelong resident of VT I don't believe we will have any trouble with hosting a rally in VT. The Champlain Valley Fairgrounds in Essex VT hosts several large events for motorized vehicles each year and they have never had an issue with local law enforcement. Much of the success of the experiences we will have will depend on the way each of us chooses to ride and our attitudes towards the people we meet. VT is a small state that relies quite heavily on tourism revenue and the people who live and work here are quite freindly and helpful. Taking maximum advantage of the great roads we have in VT should never cause an issue. Creating a public high-speed display in populated areas will almost always result in a performance award. Please come to VT in 2006 and enjoy some truly great motorcycling and scenery. The only problems that will be here are the ones you bring with you.

[TheSlashFiveTourer]

As a lifelong resident of VT I don't believe we will have any trouble with hosting a rally in VT.... Please come to VT in 2006 and enjoy some truly great motorcycling and scenery. The only problems that will be here are the ones you bring with you.


Nicely said, Dataman! When I lived in and worked out of Montreal, Quebec, I made many trips down I-87, through Plattsburg (NY), ferried across to Burlington each time, followed I-89 down through Montpelier to White River Junction, took lots of those glorious side roads in both Vermont and New Hampshire on the /5 and never ran into ANY kind of problem with the locals or their appointed servants of the law. Only time I got to see a trooper was near Rutland one sunny day when I stopped for a meal and spent about 30 minutes in conversation with The Man who expressed a keen interest in my Beemer and not how fast I might have been going on Highway 7.

An interesting tidbit for any Civil War buffs in the crowd:- Head north from Burlington on I-89 to the town of "St. Albans" while you're attending the 2006 National. St. Albans was the site of the northernmost battle of the American Civil War! That's right! A Civil War battle actually took place in northern Vermont, October 19, 1864 - check it out! (http://www.virtualvermont.com/history/staraid.html). An interesting piece of history. (Vermont..The Civil War...a battle???)

I think we're gonna enjoy The Green Mountain State in '06!