The R1200RT is a great value (compared to R1150RT)

[fish]

Since the introduction of the new R1200RT, I've read dozens of complaints about the price of the bike. This post aims to put the price in perspective.

2004 BMW R1150RT - $16,290 MSRP
2005 BMW R1200RT - $17,490 MSRP

That's a $1200 difference. BFD. How many RT owners will spend that much on just a pipe and a seat?

My bike's base price was somewhat higher, as it had a few additional factory options on it. My base was $18,150 or $1860 higher than last year's RT. Since I don't have a copy of the actual invoice (I'll have to ask for one), I can only tell you what you can get for $1860 more than a 2004 R1150RT, as I'm not sure what's optional and what's included in the MSRP of $17,490.

Here's why the R12RT is such a great value over the 1150RT. If you wanna have fun on the home version of the game, try to add up how much it would cost to get this functionality on an 1150, at least where possible.

The list is in no particular order or priority:

* 15 more horsepower ($80 per pony and the rest is gravy)
* 13 more lb-ft torque
* Antiknock sensors
* Two oxygen sensors
* Header crossover tube with modular exhaust system
* NO SURGE
* Half gallon additional fuel capacity
* Decent windscreen
* 20W more alternator output
* Partially integrated servo assisted brakes
* Electronic cruise control
* Real roundels
* Stainless steel braided brake and clutch lines
* Smartkey with engine immobilizer
* Oil level guage on dash LCD panel
* Trip computer (mpg, avg mph, range, ambient temp (with black ice indicator))
* Lifetime final drive lube
* Lifetime clutch master fluid
* Close ratio gearbox with with increased oil change interval
* Firm, ergonomic, and HEATED seats
* Side panels that come of with half the screws of the 1150
* Double the lowbeam headlight output (2 x H7)
* Double the taillight output
* Paint-matched saddlebags that can remain unlocked during flight
* Shorter gearing (combines with increased power for 0-62mph in 3.6s)
* Improved suspension (read Sandy's MOA Owners News article for details)
* Two tripmeters
* Light sensitive dash illuminator/dimmer
* Functional rack
* No more sewing machine sound with stock exhaust
* Ability to change headlight bulbs without taking the bike apart and/or skinning your knuckles
* Can change out battery without removing body panels
* Wider 5.5" rear wheel with 180 tire
* Locking oil filler cap
* Can change oil filter without removing body panels.
* Stainless Torx screws everywhere you look




So quit whining. It's a FANTASTIC deal compared to the 1150RT :deal

[SHAG]

And just like the 12GS! It does everything better :thumb

[IndyRT]

Fish,

I agree with your analysis above that the R1200RT is a better bike than the R1150RT and for exactly the reasons you list. My only problem with your analysis is using MSRP as the price for the 04 R1150RT. Right now there are huge discounts to be had on the 1150s and as far as I know none to be had on the 1200s. So $13,900 vs $17490. Now that is more like $3500 difference and is the main reason I went ahead and bought a 04 last year knowing the 1200s were coming. My $13,900 number came off Ebay and was a price that Daytona was listing awhile back (may still be). Congrats on the new bike though the pics are great and as you may guess I would love to have one. Maybe in a few years. :D Enjoy the new ride.

[dano]

If the new '05 R1200RT sells for more than $12,000., then yes....it's too expensive. :D

Hey....you asked! :wave

[MarkF]

I've seen posts elsewhere saying that a loaded R1200RT out the door is $24,000. That is quite a bit more than the MSRP. I wonder what it's loaded with or if some BMW dealers are playing the low supply/high demand mark-up game.

Given that new R1150RT are being discounted I wonder how much a low mileage R1150RT will go for in a year or two. You can't sell it for $15,000 if they were available for $13,500, or can you?

[fish]

Fish,

I agree with your analysis above that the R1200RT is a better bike than the R1150RT and for exactly the reasons you list. My only problem with your analysis is using MSRP as the price for the 04 R1150RT. Right now there are huge discounts to be had on the 1150s and as far as I know none to be had on the 1200s. So $13,900 vs $17490. Now that is more like $3500 difference and is the main reason I went ahead and bought a 04 last year knowing the 1200s were coming. My $13,900 number came off Ebay and was a price that Daytona was listing awhile back (may still be). Congrats on the new bike though the pics are great and as you may guess I would love to have one. Maybe in a few years. :D Enjoy the new ride.


Yes, of course you are correct. The obsolete model is on clearance sale to make room for the new models. Happens every year. BUT! The point is to compare what one would have paid for an 04 RT before the new models came out. Otherwise, it's not a fair comparison. Last year, you could have said that the '03 RT was a far better deal than the '04 RT, because it was on clearance, especially since the two bikes were virtually identical. :brow

Or maybe I'm just smoking some funky stuff. :dunno

[fish]

If the new '05 R1200RT sells for more than $12,000., then yes....it's too expensive. :D

What comparable bike can you buy for $12,000?


Hey....you asked! :wave

I don't recall asking that question.

:doh

[fish]

I've seen posts elsewhere saying that a loaded R1200RT out the door is $24,000. That is quite a bit more than the MSRP. I wonder what it's loaded with or if some BMW dealers are playing the low supply/high demand mark-up game.

$24K?

Well, let's do some quick math. Let's say a loaded RT prices out at $20k. Add sales tax (in this county, it's 8.5%) of $1700, Freight/assy of $600, DMV of $200, doc fees of $45. OTD price is $22,545. Where would the extra $1500 come from? Tankbag, topcase, navigator II? Sounds high to me.

[dano]

Question posed was:

Is the R1200RT expensive? Nope.

The way I read it....you did ask the question. And....why does there have to be a comparable bike to establish "expensive"?

You can add all the improvements / doo-dads to a bike that you want. If it was too expensive to start with.....it's still too expensive after the additions.

It's a good thing that the motorcycle industry doesn't take away from a bike's relative worth, for being excessively ugly. :D :stick

[fish]

Question posed was:

Is the R1200RT expensive? Nope.

The way I read it....you did ask the question. And....why does there have to be a comparable bike to establish "expensive"?

Does not. (at least not anymore :evil)

You can add all the improvements / doo-dads to a bike that you want. If it was too expensive to start with.....it's still too expensive after the additions.

Okay, I give up. You're right. Any motorcycle that costs more than $1500 is too expensive. And you should never add any doo-dads that make it more expensive. :cat

It's a good thing that the motorcycle industry doesn't take away from a bike's relative worth, for being excessively ugly. :D :stick

Your points are duly noted. Now please move along to the "cheap bike forum."

[BradfordBenn]

$24K?

Well, let's do some quick math. Let's say a loaded RT prices out at $20k. Add sales tax (in this county, it's 8.5%) of $1700, Freight/assy of $600, DMV of $200, doc fees of $45. OTD price is $22,545. Where would the extra $1500 come from? Tankbag, topcase, navigator II? Sounds high to me.

Okay, how about the new Savanaha Suit or some other color coordinated matching gear to match the new bike. After all they will let you finance BMW clothes.

[Callmethebreeze]

The 1200 has more gadgets than the space shuttle. Just be sure that you're not getting reeled in on this one! BMW has taken pages out of the FJR and ST1300 books. I think of it as Mottoradaruru.
Banzai
:rofl

[Mudbug]

My local dealer has a 05 R1200RT for $19,845 and a 05 K1200LT for $20,495. That's a $650 difference. I'd take the K1200LT. Adding a topcase and CD changer ( if possible ) to the RT would push the asking price above the LT.

IHMO, the LT is a better value.


:thumb

[dano]

Admittedly.....I have much more experience buying "reasonably priced" bikes, than I do expensive ones.

I don't expect any more from a reasonably priced bike, than I do an expensively price done. I expect to get just what I paid for.

But....when I do buy an expensive bike, and it fails to some degree, to live up to it's "reputation", I start seeing all the $$'s I spent to buy it. And for that reason, I guess I tend to get a little more irritated, when a dealer or manufacturer, fails to accept responsibility for it.

[RTRandy]

Fish,

I hope to own one some day and I feel you deserve the commission with all the good info you provided. I've been studying the bike, but hadn't thought about the sewing machine story though you're right.

I love the temperature gauge, oil level guage and the ability to change the battery and oil filter without removing the Tupperware. That alone can save a lot of labor bucks at the dealer.

The improved headlights could eliminate the need for the extra after market lights such as the PIAA's or Motolights needed on the 04,plus the new seat might actually work without having to buy a custom set for another 600 bucks.

There really aren't any new RT's around so the $13k argument is kind of moot, plus the dollar has fallen against the Euro in the past year which could account for some of the increase for the 05 model.

I'm told that these first models aren't coming through with the electronic adjustable suspension option and this will be a sought after feature. One argument is we tend to adjust our suspension and leave it alone, but it can come in handy with changing conditions and being able to adjust it on the fly.

No arguments here for a 1200RT. I just need to factor in the cost of a divorce lawyer if I were to bring one of these babies home right now. It's bad enough I told the wife I found the new Suzuki laying on the side of the road and couldn't stand to see it just laying there. :brow

[MoroCycler]

[QUOTE=fish]$24K?

Well, let's do some quick math. Let's say a loaded RT prices out at $20k. Add sales tax QUOTE]


Yes, I paid 23,800 including insurance, license plates, cd player, etc. But I think it is not expensive.
Last week I attended a Harley D. Rally and boy those choppers are more than 20,000, with all the differences we know they have.

I don´t think it is only the price that makes me feel I am riding the best or maybe one of the best bikes in the world.

I love my RT12, for those who haven´t bought it, better give yourself a try, it is worth it!

:)

[jacco]

According the the BMW NA website shipping and set-up fees are now incuded in the MSRP, unlike before. Would make the R12RT an even better deal, assuming that you can use that word for a $20k bike...

Best,
Jacco

[dano]

I knew some people that owned a Honda dealership. I was told, that the dealers are re-imbursed by the manufacturer for "set-up" fees.

The Honda dealer I spoke of....never charged for a set-up fee.

I also know a guy that manages a Kawasaki shop, and he too, told me that they are re-imbursed by Kawasaki for set-up fees.

Sounds as if BMW is a wee bit different.......... :brow

[ChrisF]

For reference, here is a pic of the price sheet attached to a new RT on the showroom floor last Friday.

[lorazepam]

All seasons motorsports in Wooster does not charge setup or destination charges. Looks like you dealer likes to make an extra buck or two when you walk in the door.
I might have to say something to him about that considering BMW does advertise including setup and freight.

[MarkF]

how about $50 for an idiot light? not bad, huh?

[fish]

how about $50 for an idiot light? not bad, huh?

As far as I can tell, the oil level warning unit is part of the BC. I'm not sure why it would be split out separately. There is a new general warning light in the middle of the LED panel that is either red or yellow, depending on the severity of the problem. Perhaps that doesn't light up unless you pay the $50? :dunno

[CJM]

So your bike is better than my R1150RT? That I believe is just YOUR opinion!
My RT is about 100 lbs. lighter, has no radiator, no electric fans, no water pump, no God awful sounding 4 cylinder engine,no thermostat. Did I leave anything out?

Oh, you NEED that extra hp to lug around all that extra weight, and do you REALLY want to go down the Blue Ridge Parkway aganist an RT?

And the last time I checked, nobody was buying BMW motorcycles because they are bargains! If you shop for price, buy a Honda. :stick

MTBATP

[fish]

So your bike is better than my R1150RT? That I believe is just YOUR opinion!
My RT is about 100 lbs. lighter, has no radiator, no electric fans, no water pump, no God awful sounding 4 cylinder engine,no thermostat. Did I leave anything out?

Oh, you NEED that extra hp to lug around all that extra weight, and do you REALLY want to go down the Blue Ridge Parkway aganist an RT?

And the last time I checked, nobody was buying BMW motorcycles because they are bargains! If you shop for price, buy a Honda. :stick

MTBATP

Hey Mike, who are you responding to? This thread is about the new R1200RT, not K-bikes.


:dunno

[CJM]

Guess I missread THAT one, I stand corrected. Just haven't gotten accustomed to an RT being 1200cc's. :dunno

And by the way... my coworker with the Ducati ST4S is trading it for the new RT.

MTBATP

[fish]

Guess I missread THAT one, I stand corrected. Just haven't gotten accustomed to an RT being 1200cc's. :dunno

no worries. i'm not used to it either. searching on r1200 still brings up cruisers.

And by the way... my coworker with the Ducati ST4S is trading it for the new RT.

MTBATP

no kidding? why? i thought the ST4S had a smokin' engine in it? can't handle the ergos?

[saab93driver]

The 1200 might indeed be a better bike but it is awfully ugly, in either RT or ST form.

The price difference can be justified somewhat by the weak $, normal yearly price increases and being the intro year whoever takes the chance to be the first on their block has to pay, prices out the door will be discounted when the novelty wears off and the supply is steady. Point being, the current price situation doesn't really look out of line to me if someone truly has to have one.

[kenk]

My local dealer has a 05 R1200RT for $19,845 and a 05 K1200LT for $20,495. That's a $650 difference. I'd take the K1200LT. Adding a topcase and CD changer ( if possible ) to the RT would push the asking price above the LT.

IHMO, the LT is a better value.


:thumb

Declaring someone cheap and "needing to move to the cheap bike forum" for not wanting to pay these prices is a bit silly. I think most of us would agree that the prices of our BMW bikes are too high. I have NEVER read a single article that has declared BMW motorcycles a great value for the money, compared to other motorcycles. Let face it, when the price of a motorcycle is the same as most small to mid-sized cars, somethings wrong. The price of our bikes help to pay for Germany's 12% unemployment (highest since the WWII) and the weak dollar compared to the Euro.

I would agree with our analysis that the new RT is a better value than the old RT. However, both bikes are overpriced. IMHO, this is why BMW will always be a less than 5% market share in the motorcycle industry.

[MarkF]

I think most of us would agree that the prices of our BMW bikes are too high. I have NEVER read a single article that has declared BMW motorcycles a great value for the money, compared to other motorcycles.

I disagree X 2. I think they are all expensive. Anything over $10,000 is - but only because I can't afford it at this point in my life. If I was much more successful or the kids were grown and gone and the mortgage was paid off I'm sure I would think anything under $20,000 was a good deal. I know plenty guys buying HD and choppers for lots more. Now there I can disagree on worth! I have read a lot of articles that compare the BMWs to Jap and Itallian sportcruisers. Many list the advantages of BMW that might justify a 40% surcharge. To each there own and please don't speak for me.

[dano]

Declaring someone cheap and "needing to move to the cheap bike forum" for not wanting to pay these prices is a bit silly. I think most of us would agree that the prices of our BMW bikes are too high. I have NEVER read a single article that has declared BMW motorcycles a great value for the money, compared to other motorcycles. Let face it, when the price of a motorcycle is the same as most small to mid-sized cars, somethings wrong. The price of our bikes help to pay for Germany's 12% unemployment (highest since the WWII) and the weak dollar compared to the Euro.

I would agree with our analysis that the new RT is a better value than the old RT. However, both bikes are overpriced. IMHO, this is why BMW will always be a less than 5% market share in the motorcycle industry.



BRAVO!! :clap

You want "value"? You most likely won't find "it" in a European bike. You'll need to look elsewhere. Something of Japanese heritage would be a very good start. :thumb