Oil thread

[DarkCloud]

Trying to find one brand, type, and weight of oil for all my vehicles. Stopped at a local discount auto store for advice and the salesperson told me they had pulled all the paraffin based oils off the shelf this week. This was done due to the higher price of crude oil, longer life of synthetics, and recycling.

What happens to the paraffin build up in your engine when you change over to synthetic with the higher detergents?

Besides Mobil One is there any other brand besides Amsoil that I should look at? I like the Mobile One because you can find it about anywhere in the weight you want.

Is 5-30 too thin for an oilhead?

Thanks, JON

[GregFeeler]

Trying to find one brand, type, and weight of oil for all my vehicles.

That might be hard to do, depending on what vehicles you have. I'd shoot for getting the right oils first.

What happens to the paraffin build up in your engine when you change over to synthetic with the higher detergents?

Are you talking about petrolum-based oils vs synthetics? As long as you have been using any modern detergent oil there should be no significant deposits. Synthetics are fully compatiable with petrolium oils.

Besides Mobil One is there any other brand besides Amsoil that I should look at? I like the Mobile One because you can find it about anywhere in the weight you want.

Almost all the major oil companies have a synthetic line. Mobel 1 was one of the first and has a good reputation with a lot of people, and like you said, can be found most everywhere - but not always in the correct weight you might need. Lots of places only carry the "energy conserving" weights which are NOT for motorcycle use.

Is 5-30 too thin for an oilhead?

What does your owners manual say? That's the first thing in selecting oils is to follow the manufacture's recommendations. Use the weight AND SAE grade specified. LOTS of "automotive" oils are NOT good to use in your BMW motorcycle, 5-30 in particular. It's too light and it is an "energy conserving" oil that has had almost all the white metal additives left out. These protect engine parts under high loads (i.e. motorcycle & race engines).

[CJM]

Mobile one was not ONE of the first...it was THE first. There is a very good series of articles that appeared in V-TWIN magazine a couple of years ago. They interviewed the chief engineer from Mobile who actually developed pure synthetic oil.

If you read these articles you will know a lot more about oil than you thought you would ever need to know.

Oil should do the following:

1. Lubricate
2. Clean
3. Cool
4. Not leave deposits throughout your engine.
5. Remain within its listed viscocity range.

After the EPA forced the remonal of zinc from the oil some companies have marketed "motorcycle" oil with zinc in it. Zinc is a very good anti-wear additive. It was what made Castrol look dirty right out of the can.

According to the articles in V-TWIN there is no friction advantage to running a synthetic oil....only a wider temprature range and longer life.

I personally run 15-50 Mobile-1 in everything I own.

MTDATP

[flash412]

Trying to find one brand, type, and weight of oil for all my vehicles.That makes every bit as much sense as finding one pair of pants to fit everyone in your entire family. The result will be pretty much the same.

[STRESS]

http://www.amsoil.com/company.aspx
It seems to me that the only good reason to switch to synthetics is to prolong the change intervals. Synthetics supposedly take longer to loose viscosity but require a flushing process prior to first change over in addition to the expense of the product. THe long use that companies advertise is based on testing the oils for its maturity hence slowing the need for change. However, you need to either test the oil yourself or send out for testing to realize such long term intervals. Yes, you can get 60,000- 70,000 miles between changes in a truck which requires 15 -16 quarts to fill and that does add up. But I am having a hard time convincing myself that I will take the time to send the oil for testing and not just change instead a few thousand more that a traditional oil would require. So, in the garage the Amsoil sits all $200 worth. Instead I change the Rotella and tell myself the Amsoil will make its way into the John Deere that is more a seasonal tool and more likely a candidate for the testing process. For what it is worth Ford doesn't recommend changing to synthetics until after about 50,000 miles so that the engine and seals are properly broken in. I have made changes to synthetics in vehicles that I have owned and have had leaks associated with the change.

[kbasa]

That makes every bit as much sense as finding one pair of pants to fit everyone in your entire family. The result will be pretty much the same.

Exactly. RTFM, man. My truck takes 5W-30, my bike takes 20W-50.

You need to put what the manufacturer specifies for viscosity.

[MechanicSavant]

Oh boy another oyl thread.well I'm reading it ,so here comes my $.02...one thing I have'nt seen much mention of is the fact that when you change oil you're getting dirt outa the engine ,yeah I know syn oyl don't get dirty as fast but it still does ...how long do ya wanna leave even a little crud swirling aroumd in there ???Me ? I use dino oyl,bike stuff in the bike & w-mrt oil in every thing else ...regardles of vehicle it goes out 3Xin 10k mi...[about every 3300mi somehow that works for me...Oh almost forgot small engines at least once a yr...I also give blood regularly just ta get a pint o dirty fluid out of me .still haven't found the filter yet!!!doc sez it's good for the life of the vehicle he scares me somtimes... :wow

[paulsibek]

Some people claim that synth gets more HP and better gas mileage, but if any of you read the Consumer Reports Oil test a few years back that's debatable.

One advantage synth has is in hot climates it transfers heat a little better so I use it in my airhead. Not so important in the K Bike.

I use a Castrol Semi Synth because I get it wholesale and it's fine.

One area in which synth rocks is in the transmission. There was a NOTICABLE difference in cold early morning shifting with Mobil 1, no false neutral etc.

[James.A]

There is a very thourough oil article on IBMWR. I run straight 40 dino oil in my R27. I have switched my airheads to Torco synthetic 20w50. I do not over-run the 3k limit on synthetic. Castrol GTX in my cars. Again, strict adherance to the 3k interval. I never see cruddy black oil on this scheme. I would not run 5w in a motorcycle.

[CJM]

http://www.amsoil.com/company.aspx
It seems to me that the only good reason to switch to synthetics is to prolong the change intervals. Synthetics supposedly take longer to loose viscosity but require a flushing process prior to first change over in addition to the expense of the product. THe long use that companies advertise is based on testing the oils for its maturity hence slowing the need for change. However, you need to either test the oil yourself or send out for testing to realize such long term intervals. Yes, you can get 60,000- 70,000 miles between changes in a truck which requires 15 -16 quarts to fill and that does add up. But I am having a hard time convincing myself that I will take the time to send the oil for testing and not just change instead a few thousand more that a traditional oil would require. So, in the garage the Amsoil sits all $200 worth. Instead I change the Rotella and tell myself the Amsoil will make its way into the John Deere that is more a seasonal tool and more likely a candidate for the testing process. For what it is worth Ford doesn't recommend changing to synthetics until after about 50,000 miles so that the engine and seals are properly broken in. I have made changes to synthetics in vehicles that I have owned and have had leaks associated with the change.

First, if Ford did say that they don't have a clue. Porsche,Ferrarri, Corvette,
Cadilac, BMW automobile and a bunch of others put in synthetic at start-up at the factory. There is no flushing required before you change from fossil based oil. (according to MOBILE) The oil leaks you experienced was from the synthetic oil cleaning all the crap off the walls of the engine/pan etc. and the oil leaked past the hardened gasket. If you could have stood the leaks long enough the gasket may have softened and resealed.
True story: after 100,000 miles on my 1979 Fiesta I put 15/50 Mobile-1 in the engine. I had been using NOTHING BUT 20-50 CASTROL GTX. I ran the Mobile-1 until it was down 1/2 qt. This took 15,000 miles. The car is still in town with over 250,000 miles on the drivetrain.
You really do need to try and find that V-TWIN series of articles. It's just too good to miss.
The Mobile-1 'motorcycle' oil has zinc and probably some other white metal in it because the EPA doesn't require the same from a bike as a car.
And the real reason car companies engineered their cars for 5-30 is because that will give you about .2-.3 mpg on the EPA cycle.
I read some years back that to gain 1 mpg (WITH ALL THINGS REMAINING THE SAME IE., weight, hp, gearing, arodynamic drag coefficient, tires etc)
would coust something like $1,000,000,000.00. If this is true, 5-30 weight oil saved $200,000,000.00 to $300,000,000.00 in engineering costs per vehicle model.
Mobile-1 15-50 is all I use and I will give-up .25 mpg on average that I might be losing for the peace of mind and I only change it 1/2 as often.
Also BMW requires 15-60 BMW Synthetic oil in the 333 HP M-3.


MTBATP

[GeoffMiller]

I run 20/50 semi-synthetic Schaeffer in my airhead. I have an oil temp gauge and did notice cooler running. Ever since switching over, I just can't get away from having a little drip on the floor under the bike. Not enough to be a problem. When I bought the K1200RS this winter, I asked the dealer if it was ok to run synthetic. His recommendation was to run dino until 25 or 30K miles before switching over. His experience is that K motors won't keep synthetic in them until they are really broken in.

[CJM]

I run 20/50 semi-synthetic Schaeffer in my airhead. I have an oil temp gauge and did notice cooler running. Ever since switching over, I just can't get away from having a little drip on the floor under the bike. Not enough to be a problem. When I bought the K1200RS this winter, I asked the dealer if it was ok to run synthetic. His recommendation was to run dino until 25 or 30K miles before switching over. His experience is that K motors won't keep synthetic in them until they are really broken in.

As diffucult as it is to seat the rings in one of these nickel/silicone cylindered bikes he probably has a valid point. My friend Dave who has owned numerous BMW's says that you need to take them out at around 3k miles and run the engine above 5k for an entire day to get them to seat. Regardless of the type oil.

Maybe somebody can tell me if the rings are chrome/moly or not. If so it would take a long time to seat them on a cast iron cylinder, add nickel/silicone to the mix and it would only be worse.

Anybody know?

MTBATP

[TZOLK]

Valvoline makes a full synthetic at 20W-50 for about $4.30 a quart. sold at Autozone.

[RT_guy]

Valvoline makes a full synthetic at 20W-50 for about $4.30 a quart. sold at Autozone.

Dang, I didn't know that! I took a look at their site (http://www.valvoline.com/pages/products/product_detail.asp?product=19) and their 20w50 which really is a full synthetic. In their FAQ, they say this:

Can I use SynPower motor oil in my motorcycle that has a wet clutch?
No. SynPower is a highly friction modified oil and is not designed for wet clutches.


So, it may not harm the RT, but be careful with it in your rice burner!

Something else I didn't know - Valvoline makes a motorcycle-specific oil, aptly called, Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil.