My visit to Deal's Gap today!

[warredon]

I don't live very far from Deal's Gap, about 70-75 miles. I try to stay away for the most part because of it's carnival atmosphere, but when I do visit once or twice a year, I usually do it during the cooler months or early morning midweek.

I took out the K1 this morning and headed to the Gap, it had been a year or so since I had been there. My plan was to ride just a couple hundred miles in the mountains and return by early afternoon before it got so hot.

Here are a few snaps from my old Nikon I keep handy. This isn't the first time I've found the road blocked. It may very well be the riders fault here, it appears the rider just ran into him from behind, I never did get the details. I just don't under stand why these truck drivers are so determined to use that narrow crooked road, they take up both lanes when they do. There are signs warning them not to try, but so many insist on using it anyway.

I saw the ambulance leaving with the rider and was told that it appears that he will be fine. He has some broken bones, but was conscious and speaking.


http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm291/warredon/The%20Gap/DSCN1798Custom.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm291/warredon/The%20Gap/DSCN1799Custom.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm291/warredon/The%20Gap/DSCN1800Custom.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm291/warredon/The%20Gap/DSCN1801Custom.jpg

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm291/warredon/The%20Gap/DSCN1802Custom.jpg

[2bikemike]

There are several small towns that are served by U.S Highway 129. When it comes to trucking, the shortest way usually wins out. Especially if the driver is not local. Having said that, if you run into the back of a vehicle, you are at fault!

[Ken F]

It's plainly visible in the pictures where the MC hit the trailer in the rear.
(see the reflector bar just above the "bumper")

Ken

[AKsuited]

I did the Dragon last summer while it was still closed due to a rock slide on the Tennessee side. That was a good time to ride it because there was no through traffic, no trucks, and no RV's.

Harry

[Jogitu]

They should ban trucks from that road unless they have deliveries on that road. It is too dangerous to other motorists to have them on that road. At the very least they should be required to have police escort. There are warning signs both ends warning them and even turn arounds available. It would not be breaking new ground in Tennessee for that to happen. There are bans in other parts of the state for just the same reasons. Some roads are not meant for a semi pulling a 48 or 53 foot trailer.

[JDOCKERY132445]

An empty truck taking up both lanes. There was no "exit strategy" for the biker. Of course if you hit the rear of a truck, you are at fault.

[RUDYJO]

It almost looks to me like the truck was stopped when the bike hit it. If the truck
was moving at even 10 mph, it would have gone at least another 50 ft down the road after he realized he had been hit and then come to a stop. Regardless, it
goes into the paper as another motorcycle accident, giving all motorcyclists a
bad name.

[Greenwald]

An empty truck taking up both lanes. There was no "exit strategy" for the biker. Of course if you hit the rear of a truck, you are at fault.

I seem to recall signs posted prohibiting the standard 53' semi-trailers. Possibility BOTH operators will be getting pink slips! :deal

[2bikemike]

I seem to recall signs posted prohibiting the standard 53' semi-trailers. Possibility BOTH operators will be getting pink slips! :deal

Look at cab( the tractor ) he is well within his lane. Due to the length of the trailer, in sharp turns, it's gonna cross over the white line. However, it does look like the trailer is a bit further in the opposing lane than I would think necessary. (this is my opinion as I drove 18 wheelers for over25 years ) As I said in an earlier post Hwy. 129 serves several small towns on the N.C. side.

[2bikemike]

An empty truck taking up both lanes. There was no "exit strategy" for the biker. Of course if you hit the rear of a truck, you are at fault.

His exit strategy should have been to stay behind the rig, or just pull off and wait. There ain't no place to pass a rig of this size safely!

[nobody]

The rider died on the way to the hospital. He was a classmate of a friend of mine.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/178735/2/Motorcycle-driver-dies-on-way-to-hospital-after-crash-

[nobody]

His exit strategy should have been to stay behind the rig, or just pull off and wait. There ain't no place to pass a rig of this size safely!

If the rig was stopped covering the entire road, which it looks to be from the photos, then the rider may have had no options. It's easy for us to be armchair quarterbacks, but the Dragon has many blind curves and assuming the rider was traveling at a normal rate of speed, he could have easily come around a curve and happen upon a semi blocking any escape for the biker.

This particular road, combined with motorcycles, cars and tractor trailer rigs is an accident waiting to happen. They don't mix at all. We've seen this type of photo many times before where a semi can't cope with the tight turns, much less 318 of them in eleven miles. Tennessee and North Carolina should both prohibit all large trucks and semis from this section of road.

[Greenwald]

Look at cab( the tractor ) he is well within his lane. Due to the length of the trailer, in sharp turns, it's gonna cross over the white line. However, it does look like the trailer is a bit further in the opposing lane than I would think necessary. (this is my opinion as I drove 18 wheelers for over25 years ) As I said in an earlier post Hwy. 129 serves several small towns on the N.C. side.

I respect truckers who drive responsibly - many thanks to your many safe miles OTR.

Yes - the tractor is positioned correctly, but my point is that if this trailer length was prohibited, that could result in some form of enforcement action.

[Greenwald]

His exit strategy should have been to stay behind the rig, or just pull off and wait. There ain't no place to pass a rig of this size safely!

Short of a reliable witness or 'deathbed statement,' all of us are "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" this incident.

He may have rounded the curve at a speed where it wasn't about 'passing' so much as picking an escape path to try and avoid a collision.

My condolences to his family for their loss.

[2bikemike]

Short of a reliable witness or 'deathbed statement,' all of us are "Monday Morning Quarterbacking" this incident.

He may have rounded the curve at a speed where it wasn't about 'passing' so much as picking an escape path to try and avoid a collision.

My condolences to his family for their loss.

Local reports say both vehicles were traveling in opposite directions. From the pix that are posted,one would logically conclude the motorcyclist hit the rig in the rear.

[2bikemike]

The rider died on the way to the hospital. He was a classmate of a friend of mine.

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/178735/2/Motorcycle-driver-dies-on-way-to-hospital-after-crash-

Just saw your link. Gives much more info on the accident.

[maacova]

Those pixs are enough to keep me from going anywhere near the Dragon. I need to stay alive and large trucks on small roads scare me. Too many nice roads to fool with that stuff. This is not the first time I have seen trucks on the wrong side of the road on the Dragon.

[nobody]

Local reports say both vehicles were traveling in opposite directions. From the pix that are posted,one would logically conclude the motorcyclist hit the rig in the rear.

That is what I had thought at first too, from the look of the photos. But if the bike was coming from the opposite direction and ran into the trailer, then it ran over him, it's very conceivable that the damage on the rear of the trailer is after the initial impact and spun the bike around. Looked at the photos again and it looks like they've spray painted POI (point of impact) several yards behind the bike. Very tragic.

[2bikemike]

That is what I had thought at first too, from the look of the photos. But if the bike was coming from the opposite direction and ran into the trailer, then it ran over him, it's very conceivable that the damage on the rear of the trailer is after the initial impact and spun the bike around. Looked at the photos again and it looks like they've spray painted POI (point of impact) several yards behind the bike. Very tragic.

I think you are correct.

[2bikemike]

I respect truckers who drive responsibly - many thanks to your many safe miles OTR.

Yes - the tractor is positioned correctly, but my point is that if this trailer length was prohibited, that could result in some form of enforcement action.

Thanks for the accolades Kevin, if memory serves me correctly I was involved in 2 accidents. One, when a young lady turned left in front of me ( she couldn't see a big rig ?) The second was on a snowy, icy road ( no one but me involved ) I figure I drove at least 1.5 million miles. I don't recall seeing any signs on the Tennessee side that restricts trailer length, only cautions that suggest drivers consider another route. I can't imagine drivers of the big rigs wanting to drive this route. I suspect many just look at a map and see that that is the closet way to go and don't realize what they are in for. That happened to me a couple of times at least.

[redsky49]

If the news report is correct, the truck and the motorcycle were approaching each other when the the collision occurred and the truck continued to run over the rider.

Looking at the first pic that was posted, there is only a very small exit space on that corner - post accident. Conceivably there was even less space to pass immediately prior to the collision.

Changing your line through that corner in the split second when your sight line showed the road blocked would have taken a miracle. With so little space available for evasive action the rider was simply SOL.

18 wheelers simply are too large for this road, regardless of the ability or experience of the trucker. Despite the preponderance of similar accidents on this and nearby roads, NCDOT does nothing. Makes me furious. :banghead

As for me, I ride other nearby roads, especially if at a spirited pace. In any case, slow down/maintain control on blind turns.

[2bikemike]

If the news report is correct, the truck and the motorcycle were approaching each other when the the collision occurred and the truck continued to run over the rider.

Looking at the first pic that was posted, there is only a very small exit space on that corner - post accident. Conceivably there was even less space to pass immediately prior to the collision.

Changing your line through that corner in the split second when your sight line showed the road blocked would have taken a miracle. With so little space available for evasive action the rider was simply SOL.

18 wheelers simply are too large for this road, regardless of the ability or experience of the trucker. Despite the preponderance of similar accidents on this and nearby roads, NCDOT does nothing. Makes me furious. :banghead

As for me, I ride other nearby roads, especially if at a spirited pace. In any case, slow down/maintain control on blind turns.

I agree. But I still like to ride the gap.

[warredon]

Thanks for the link to the news story, it does shine a new light on the matter. I'm the one that took the pics and started the thread. I like most others assumed the rider ran into the rig from behind.

While I was taking pictures, an officer instructed me to get back to my vehicle, he told me himself that if the rider was to die that it could turn into a crime scene. What he said makes a lot more sense to me now knowing that they were traveling in opposite directions.

I found it odd while at the scene that the police were taking more time than I expected spray painting, taking measurements, determining the POI (point of impact,) etc. In one pic you can see where they spray painted "POI" on the road. This also makes a lot more sense to me now.

[GlobalRider]

There was no "exit strategy" for the biker.

Yeah, there was.

Its called not driving faster than your sight distance allows.

[MIAirhead]

Not knowing the speed of the motorcycle was traveling, how can you say that he might he exceeded his site distance. You surely do not expect him to ride 5 miles an hour on a road. The whole lane it appears was blocked, he might of been going 25 miles an hour, he still would not of been able to stop in time. The front of the truck was in the correct lane, its is a flat bed trailer.

You can not say he was arrogant about his abilities. The rider was not at fault, he may have been going faster then he should (who in the H knows), but with the flat bed trailer in thewrong lane with trees on every corner. I sure most (if not all) riders may make the same mistake seeing the cab in the correct lane, and then too late to stop.

If its the law not to drive trucks on the road then it the duty of the local police to ticket them, as they seem to do for speeding on that road, to sports cars and motorcycles.

Motorcycles can be dangerous, oil on road, drivers that don't look, and something in your lane you can not see. Every riders knows that and yet we ride because we enjoy it, many thing are dangerous (skydiving, comes to mind). Even David Hough had an accident on two wheels. Please just give David Woodard (age 47) family our condolences.

I get of my soap box.

[nobody]

Not knowing the speed of the motorcycle was traveling, how can you say that he might he exceeded his site distance. You surely do not expect him to ride 5 miles an hour on a road. The whole lane it appears was blocked, he might of been going 25 miles an hour, he still would not of been able to stop in time. The front of the truck was in the correct lane, its is a flat bed trailer.

You can not say he was arrogant about his abilities. The rider was not at fault, he may have been going faster then he should (who in the H knows), but with the flat bed trailer in thewrong lane with trees on every corner. I sure most (if not all) riders may make the same mistake seeing the cab in the correct lane, and then too late to stop.

If its the law not to drive trucks on the road then it the duty of the local police to ticket them, as they seem to do for speeding on that road, to sports cars and motorcycles.

Motorcycles can be dangerous, oil on road, drivers that don't look, and something in your lane you can not see. Every riders knows that and yet we ride because we enjoy it, many thing are dangerous (skydiving, comes to mind). Even David Hough had an accident on two wheels. Please just give David Woodard (age 47) family our condolences.

I get of my soap box.

I would have to agree. Most of us do not drive down the road anticipating a barricade in a blind curve. I dare say not one of us would have been able to avoid this sort of accident traveling at a safe and normal speed. I've seen plenty of wrecks on the Dragon from idiots who raced around me on blind curves then went literally flying off the side of the mountain. It happens weekly up there. This was not one of those situations, imho.

[warredon]

I also agree! Knowing that road, if I was to ride slow enough to avoid an accident like that, I would get run over from behind.

[GlobalRider]

Not knowing the speed of the motorcycle was traveling, how can you say that he might he exceeded his site distance.

I guess he wasn't then.

I know if I would exceed my sight distance, I'd run into the back of something sooner or later, but then I'm just an amateur rider.

They have a "limited sight distance" sign prior to a short bridge that is tall...the result is quite a bit of curvature...and there is a red light on the other side of it. I don't take it often, but I bet quite a few drivers/riders have rear ended another vehicle there.

[racer7]

One of many reasons I don't like the Dragon to ride for fun is the prevalence of blind corners with no escape routes on the edges. Got no problems with tight turns and lots of em, or speed (many many miles well into triple digits on tracks) but I like to SEE where I'm going and visibility on the Dragon is always significantly restricted, even when leaves are down. (Blind corners on tracks have corner workers watching out for the racers and are not an issue)
So whether or not the unlucky rider was "too fast" (whatever that means to you) we'll likely not know but the blind turns will always be there.

There is only one other road condition I dislike as much as blind corners and that is dark tree shadow bands on asphalt on a bright day when such conditions cause the human eye to be unable to accurately read the road surface in trhe shadows. I can pretty much deal with anything I can see if I get reasonable time and distance to react and getting out of the "reaction possible" zone is not a good thing, ever.

Heading to UN in a couple days- the Dragon is not on my list of stuff to do while there.
When I (rarely) go there, its typically in the middle of the week AND "off season". I prefer April or early May before most of the "part year" riders are out and about.

[JDOCKERY132445]

Yeah, there was.

Its called not driving faster than your sight distance allows.

I have been to Deals Gap and ridden the Dragon; but it was December, which meant most traffic was local. There are plenty of places where the curves are almost totally blind. The local expression is, "You run into your own tail lights on some curves." So unless you plan on running the road at 15 MPH, you will have times when you are "riding faster than you can see".

My near miss on the Dragon was a bear in the road. You can't plan for every contingency; you can only be careful.

This situation will be sorted out by the investigators; we are all just cyber talkers at this point.

I feel sorry for those he left behind.

[JDOCKERY132445]

http://www.thedailytimes.com/Local_News/story/Crash-on-%E2%80%98Dragon%E2%80%99-claims-biker-after-motorcycle-collides-with-tractor-trailer-id-014233

Motorcyclist Glenn Shilenberg, of Amburn, Pa., told a reporter he witnessed the crash, saying, “The trailer tires were on the other side of the white line.”

The motorcycle, which was traveling south, came around a curve three miles from the North Carolina line and encountered the northbound tractor-trailer. The back wheels of the trailer were over the white line on the motorcyclist’s side of the roadway, Shilenberg said.

“The poor guy didn’t stand a chance,” he said.

Motorcyclists who were riding with the man said he was from Tennessee, but did not know what city.

A logo on the driver’s side door identified the tractor as belonging to Thom’s Transport Co. in Blackbear, Ga.

[Mike_Philippens]

If the news report is correct, the truck and the motorcycle were approaching each other when the the collision occurred and the truck continued to run over the rider.

Looking at the first pic that was posted, there is only a very small exit space on that corner - post accident. Conceivably there was even less space to pass immediately prior to the collision.

Changing your line through that corner in the split second when your sight line showed the road blocked would have taken a miracle. With so little space available for evasive action the rider was simply SOL.

18 wheelers simply are too large for this road, regardless of the ability or experience of the trucker. Despite the preponderance of similar accidents on this and nearby roads, NCDOT does nothing. Makes me furious. :banghead

As for me, I ride other nearby roads, especially if at a spirited pace. In any case, slow down/maintain control on blind turns.
On Belgium television, there was a series of road safety infomercials by a certain Highway Policman, called 'Watch Out!'. Once he claimed that every accident could be avoided. Obviously a bold claim, and he nuanced it in his talk. But what he meant is that even if the other motorist makes a mistake which causes you to crash, you can take measures to avoid accidents just by using common sense.

I've been to the mountains lots of time (the Alps, Pyrenees) and it's just not very smart to go around these roads at high speeds. The French are infamous for their actions on these roads, passing a touringcar just before a hairpin in a car...crazy! I also once encountered a horse standing in the middle of the road after a hairpin. I would have been roadkill if I wasn't driving around at a sensible pace. It's not a race and the mountainroads are no circuits. And obviously you're always going to lose on a motorcycle.

It goes without saying that you can't possibly avoid everything, but if you keep your speed sensible, there is more chance of making a correction. If you can't make it, then the impact is a lot less, or you can make an escape through the rough at the roadside more easily.
Obviously I don't know the exact details of this particular crash and I won't judge either the motorcyclist nor the truckdriver from my couch.

[nobody]

On Belgium television, there was a series of road safety infomercials by a certain Highway Policman, called 'Watch Out!'. Once he claimed that every accident could be avoided. Obviously a bold claim, and he nuanced it in his talk. But what he meant is that even if the other motorist makes a mistake which causes you to crash, you can take measures to avoid accidents just by using common sense.

I've been to the mountains lots of time (the Alps, Pyrenees) and it's just not very smart to go around these roads at high speeds. The French are infamous for their actions on these roads, passing a touringcar just before a hairpin in a car...crazy! I also once encountered a horse standing in the middle of the road after a hairpin. I would have been roadkill if I wasn't driving around at a sensible pace. It's not a race and the mountainroads are no circuits. And obviously you're always going to lose on a motorcycle.

It goes without saying that you can't possibly avoid everything, but if you keep your speed sensible, there is more chance of making a correction. If you can't make it, then the impact is a lot less, or you can make an escape through the rough at the roadside more easily.
Obviously I don't know the exact details of this particular crash and I won't judge either the motorcyclist nor the truckdriver from my couch.

One of my MSF instructors made a similar claim, stating that he had NEVER laid down his bike, which is obviously admirable. But there is one thing about this accident that we are all overlooking. Even if the biker who died had slowed down to a stop, he had no place to exit, other than off the side of the mountain, which at some points is a sheer cliffside. The trailer was not stationary, but rather moving towards him covering the entire roadway, "over the white line" on the bikers side. He could have been stationary and would still have been run over by the trailer's tires. So how would these folks who say "every accident can be avoided" would have expected the rider to act in this situation? Immediately stop, on a blind curve and somehow miraculously begin traveling backwards to avoid an approaching barricade? Armchair quarterbacking aside, it would be impossible for anyone to cope with this scenario, much less in a split-second which is probably all the time he had to decide.

[Lee200]

It's sad to see another accident and fatality on the Dragon. I am not faulting the rider at all as we don't have all the facts and clearly the tractor trailer was blocking both lanes of the road. Even though I ride at a reasonable speed (which many of you would consider slow) on the Dragon, I certainly wouldn't want to meet a tractor trailer there. But as others have pointed out, it's all about sight line versus stopping time and many of those 318 curves are blind.

I live 15 minutes away from the Tennessee end of the Dragon, but rarely ride/drive that road anymore as it is not worth the risk. As its fame has grown, more and more riders and drivers come here to enjoy the thrill (and buy the T shirt), but unfortunately not all of them have the skill and experience to do it safely. It's also easy to get the adrenaline flowing and open the tank bag and insert the brain. On the Dragon, one rider putting himself at risk often involves putting other riders/drivers at risk too because the only escape route is the other lane.

If you want to travel between eastern Tennessee and western North Carolina, there are few options. You can go north around the Great Smoky Mountain National Park on I40, directly through the park on US 441 (and fight all the tourist traffic), around the south end of the park on US 129, the Dragon, or go farther south to TN 165/NC 143, the Cherohala Skyway (which is a far better road for motorcyclists in my opinion). So the Dragon remains the quickest way for many travellers and on the map looks very attractive to truck drivers who may not know nor care about its hazards.

There are signs posted prior to the Dragon that warn truckers about the hazardous turns, but they do not actually prohibit truckers from taking that route. This is obviously wrong and all trucks over a certain size should be banned. Local speculation has been that it's impossible to prohibit certain traffic on U.S. highways, but my understanding is there are several other U.S. highways where large trucks are prohibited. So why not the Dragon?

Perhaps some good may come out of this and large trucks will be prohibited from the Dragon in the future. Let's all hope so; otherwise this kind of accident will happen again.

[Mike_Philippens]

So how would these folks who say "every accident can be avoided" would have expected the rider to act in this situation? Immediately stop, on a blind curve and somehow miraculously begin traveling backwards to avoid an approaching barricade? Armchair quarterbacking aside, it would be impossible for anyone to cope with this scenario, much less in a split-second which is probably all the time he had to decide.
I already stated that "every accident can be avoided" is something that is said to provoke and to get people to think about it. It is not meant to be taken literally. For instance, a situation where a car coming from the opposite direction turns and hits you head on. I've seen some of these accidents and the biker never thought the car would go on with his turn. Obviously these people (the car driver in those situations) never looked (properly) for oncoming traffic. What can you do? Nothing. You can't possibly slow down at every intersection.

There's also a clip on Youtube where you see an idiot on a fast bike in Germany taking out another bike in the opposite direction because he lost control and swerved to the other lane at 80mph. Both were killed instantly. Everything was caught on tape because Mr.Moron thought it was a good idea to capture his riding skills on the helmetcam... :(

You can't precent everything, but most accidents with motocycles I see posted here and on Dutch m/c forums roughly break down into 2 categories:
* speeding (an thus running out of options for correction)
* falling down in the sight of danger (panic braking, target fixation)

There are accidents that are hard to prevent, and some that couldn't be prevented realistically. But that's only a handfull statistically speaking. I'm not saying that I know best, and that I'm the perfect driver. I make mistakes too, but I've never crashed my roadbike. I've tipped over stationary (I don't know which is more embarrasing ;) ) on 2 or 3 occasions (brake disc lock anyone?). On my offroad machine I've fallen down a couple of times, but that's normal. I guess I'm blessed with a good control over my reflexes and I don't have the panic attack reaction (braking hard etc) and that saved my life on many occasions. I ride a bike for nearly 18 years (with a 4 year hiatus) and so far without accidents. And I also drive a car for 25 years and the only accidents (just 2) I had were caused by others. Both were no big deal with only some bent metal.

I won't go debating this particular accident because I don't have all the facts and I'm not blaming anyone. I've never been at the Gap (I will come over in 2013 for a 3 month road trip) so I can't comment on how to escape.

[AKsuited]

On my trip to the Dragon last summer, my riding partner was a noob rider. He was riding way too slow to suit me on the straight roads on the way to the Dragon, but on the first really curvy mountain section we came to he took off and I couldn't, and wouldn't catch him. When we got to the top of the mountain (Caesar's Head) I had to give him a lecture about not going faster than the distance you can see to be clear. The bike will always be able to go much faster than you should be going, and you need to exercise good judgement in your choice of speed.

When I rode the Dragon I was within a reasonable measure of the 30 mph speed limit. I also had to worry about the noob rider behind me, and had to keep things slow enough to keep him out of trouble.

Like a previous poster stated, the idea is to manage your speed so that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear, which isn't very far on some of those Dragon curves.

Having said that, I hope to never encounter a situation like this, a truck taking up both lanes. I would hope to be able to counter-steer and tighten up my line to the point where I would choose to run off the road rather than be run over by a truck. The Dragon does not have shoulders and there are trees fairly close but anything is better than tangling with a tractor-trailer.

RIP fellow rider.

Harry

[Mike_Philippens]

It's not just trucks blocking your way in a hairpin. These mountainroads are generally not among the best maintained roads. If you go (too) fast and there's some sand/gravel on your path in a corner, 2 things can happen: it's scares you and you hit the brakes, which will bring you down; or you start to slide and you can't recover because your speed is too high. I've encountered lots of situations with some kind of rubble on the road in a corner and I was able to recover easy. Just because I maintain a sensible speed. I know that it's very nice to go over these roads at speed, but it's not Laguna Seca...it's a public road and you don't know what's behind the next corner. Also, on a circuit, traffic generally goes in one direction and they all go fast. I won't mention the ambulances that are close by at a circtuit.

I took an advanced driving course here in Holand. It's very useful. They focus on what you can do with the bike in terms of balance and braking. They let you do some gymnastics on the bike and drive over a car tyre without your hands on the handlebars. This shows you how stable the bike is. If you realise what the bike can do, it should be easier to supress the panic reaction when you see an obstacle on the road. Most of the time you can clear it without trouble. It takes a lot to take a bike down.
These kind of courses should be mandatory.

[nobody]

A petition has been started, please read and consider signing it:

http://www.change.org/petitions/ikes-law-restrict-use-of-us-highway-129-to-non-commercial-vehicles

And for those who have never been to the Tail of the Dragon, here's a link from Killboy.com that shows what kind of madness we're describing when semis try to drive this road: http://tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html

[Mike_Philippens]

A petition has been started, please read and consider signing it:

http://www.change.org/petitions/ikes-law-restrict-use-of-us-highway-129-to-non-commercial-vehicles

And for those who have never been to the Tail of the Dragon, here's a link from Killboy.com that shows what kind of madness we're describing when semis try to drive this road: http://tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html
Wow! I didn't consider that your trucks are 'a bit' longer than our trucks (Europe/Holland). Amazing that these roads are open to these trucks.

I was going to say that over here the small roads are closed for trucks, but that isn't always true. The town where I live is closed to trucks (but they do manage to end up in the town center, courtesy of their navigation system) but there are areas with roads that are hardly wide enough for 2 normal road cars to pass, where (large) trucks are allowd. And that's because there are farms that they have to reach (flowers and plants). But those roads are not like the Dragon. We don't really have those kind of roads in Holland.

[Greenwald]

A petition has been started, please read and consider signing it:

http://www.change.org/petitions/ikes-law-restrict-use-of-us-highway-129-to-non-commercial-vehicles

And for those who have never been to the Tail of the Dragon, here's a link from Killboy.com that shows what kind of madness we're describing when semis try to drive this road: http://tailofthedragon.com/dragon_trucks.html

It is reckless indifference on the part of the TN & NC DOT to permit rigs of such size to try and negotiate this stretch of roadway, which can put law-abiding oncoming users at risk with little or no warning.

And as for wondering if such usage could be restricted, TN & NC DOT need only look over their shoulders at the Blueridge Parkway - commercial traffic has been legally banned from using it since its inception.

Not a big fan of adding my name to petitions unless they exhibit merit - this one I reviewed and signed. :deal

[2bikemike]

It is reckless indifference on the part of the TN DOT to permit rigs of such size to try and negotiate this stretch of roadway, which can put law-abiding oncoming users at risk with little or no warning.

And as for wondering if such usage could be restricted, TN DOT need only look over their shoulder at the Blueridge Parkway - commercial traffic has been legally banned from using it since its inception.

Not a big fan of adding my name to petitions unless they exhibit merit - this one I reviewed and signed. :deal

An oversight on your part I'm sure Kevin, but trucks need to banned on the North Carolina side too!

[Mike_Philippens]

Not to bash on US laws, but it's a bit weird to see this situation for us Europeans. It's physically impossible for a big truck/trailer to make the corner without endangering oncoming traffic. So why aren't trucks banned from that area? What I mean is that when we, Europeans, look at the US, the main thing we see is that you get dragged into court with a claim of a gazillion $$ for farting in the wrong direction. It seems odd that such a hazardous situation is allowed to exist.
Like I said, trucks are banned from city centers over here in Holland, and some roads are closed for big trucks. Mind you, our big trucks are considered small in the US...

Like I said, it's not to bash on the US, it just makes me wonder... Isn't the aversion of laws to regulate everything biting you in the tail? I admit that we've gone overboard (with regulation) here in Holland, but sometimes it's necessary to rule out 'good judgement' and make a decission for the people. At least, when it's proven that some people can't make these decissions for themselves.

[Bob_M]

So why aren't trucks banned from that area?

Common sense regulations are stifled by politicians who's political campains are funded by lobbiests. The trucking industry spends big money on preventing anything from impeding their movement.

Here in Oregon, several years back, the trucking industry convinced the legislators to relax bridge load limits so that safety factors engineered into the structures were added to the load limits. So far the State has had to replace hundreds of bridges that cracked as a result. This has cost tax payers billions of dollars

[Greenwald]

An oversight on your part I'm sure Kevin, but trucks need to banned on the North Carolina side too!

Corrected - thank you. :thumb

[Mike_Philippens]

Common sense regulations are stifled by politicians who's political campains are funded by lobbiests. The trucking industry spends big money on preventing anything from impeding their movement.
Hmm...I see. I thought it would work like that. Like I said, over here they tend to overdo it on the regulations, but it seems that it's the exact opposite on your side. There will never be a perfect system that works for everybody, but one thing is constant among any political system: the rich and powerfull are the ones who always benefit. The diffence between the systems is how many people are going to lose and in which way they loose...

But we're sliding into a political debate, which is not allowed here.

Let's hope there will be a ban on big trucks in those kind of roads anytime soon. I'm planning on a big US roadtrip in 2013, and I just hope I can ride freely across the country without fearing for my life.

[chord97]

I would have to agree. Most of us do not drive down the road anticipating a barricade in a blind curve. I dare say not one of us would have been able to avoid this sort of accident traveling at a safe and normal speed. I've seen plenty of wrecks on the Dragon from idiots who raced around me on blind curves then went literally flying off the side of the mountain. It happens weekly up there. This was not one of those situations, imho.

I think we have to master this survival skill. Who knows what is blocking the exit of the next hairpin curve? Could be a truck trailer, or a mobile home in transit.

I am unwilling to ride without the ability to stop before collisions, whether hairpin curve blockages, or motorists pulling lefties at intersections.

[nobody]

I think we have to master this survival skill. Who knows what is blocking the exit of the next hairpin curve? Could be a truck trailer, or a mobile home in transit.:dance

I am unwilling to ride without the ability to stop before collisions, whether hairpin curve blockages, or motorists pulling lefties at intersections.

I understand your sentiment and agree. Riding as if everyone is trying to kill you is a good way to stay alive and that is my mantra while on two wheels. But I do believe there are situations that are out of our control and we handle them as best we can. I can see no way he could have avoided this accident. It's tragic for both parties, the biker's family as well as the truck driver. That poor soul has to live with this the rest of his life.

Each of us accepts the responsibility for our own safety when we straddle a bike and try to minimize the hazards as greatly as possible. But life is not without risk.

[warredon]

I totally agree, there are situations that are unavoidable unless you stay at home. Those that believe they are immune to all accidents by being careful and conscious are only deceiving themselves.

[pffog]

My condolences to rider an family. But as Alex (GR) and Mike P stated, from what I see it could have been avoidable. I just got back from 4Km's in the alps, and made many passes with less room. A bike only needs about 18-24" of pavement to get by, that is why riding to the RIGHT is imperative on small twisty roads. When I go to Europe you can always spot N American riders, they ride down the middle of the road like it is there right to have half the pavement, well in may legally be in some placed, but expecting it can obviously have a bad outcome.

[chord97]

My condolences to rider an family. But as Alex (GR) and Mike P stated, from what I see it could have been avoidable. I just got back from 4Km's in the alps, and made many passes with less room. A bike only needs about 18-24" of pavement to get by, that is why riding to the RIGHT is imperative on small twisty roads. When I go to Europe you can always spot N American riders, they ride down the middle of the road like it is there right to have half the pavement, well in may legally be in some placed, but expecting it can obviously have a bad outcome.

The Tail of the Dragon has become world famous and is a great ride. With that said, a rider must anticipate that it will be a magnet for all sorts of drivers and cyclists, some of who have limited abilities who will violate your lane. The careful rider will be able to scrape his foot pegs, have fun, but be able to respond to 99% of the oncoming (and passing) hazards. Murphy, though, is always grinning and sitting on our shoulders.

pffog: Riding only on the right side of a narrow twistie is not a good idea in most areas. Here in West Virginia wildlife will frequently dart into the roadway. If you are already on the right side you have very limited options to avoid colliding with deer, groundhogs, possums, and their ilk. In addition, riding only on the right side will invite intrusion into our lane by passing motorists. We should be using the entire lane, using due caution and skills, including being able to stop within our sight distance.

We know there is no safety guarantee, but isn't that one of the attractions of riding a motorcycle? We understand the dangers and seek to skillfully control our equipment and ourselves so that we survive and have thrilling fun.

[2bikemike]

I think the deceased rider's family has a good case for a lawsuit.

[Mike_Philippens]

But as Alex (GR) and Mike P stated, from what I see it could have been avoidable.
I didn't say that this particular accident could have been avoidable. Lots of accident are avoidable, but in this instance, I wasn't there, so I don't know for sure what happened. Especially when a driver has been killed, I won't go near a conclusion without all the facts.

It may well have been avoidable, for instance if the rider stayed in bed that morning. But he didn't and what happened when he encountered the truck we don't know. It all depends on how fast he was going and at what point he first saw the truck. It may have been a case of target fixation, late braking, high speed or he just ran out of luck and couldn't do anything to avoid it.

[RUDYJO]

It would be interesting to see how many accidents are reported each year on this
road.

[warredon]

When I was there taking pictures of the aftermath, I almost mentioned to one of the officers that I bet they sure get tired of doing this. It just didn't feel it was the appropriate time to do so, I do know that they weren't very sociable that morning.

[nobody]

It would be interesting to see how many accidents are reported each year on this
road.

Have no clue, but it'll be a high number, that's for sure. Many of them would be single vehicle too.

Did a quick look and found this interesting pdf on the Tail of the Dragon website: http://www.tailofthedragon.com/maps/map_deaths.pdf