BMWMOA Not Very Attractive to Some

[racer7]

Well, I just noticed that I'm the author of the last post in this part of the Forum and its dated June 22. Today is July 13.

Doesn't look like MOA is of much interest to the generally younger riders of sportbike which is the most successful launch by the brand in a long time.

RA is at least trying- don't know if they're doing any better, yet, though.

Anybody ever ask themselves why this group has a headquarters in the middle of nowhere re motorcycle culture and an approach that is apparently without any results in reaching a large group of BMW owners? I'm too old (nearly 65) to want one of the sportbikes but I sure like those kids- I've taught their car culture equivalent for a long time and they are just plain fun to be with...

[GSTom]

..Anybody ever ask themselves why this group has a headquarters in the middle of nowhere re motorcycle culture

Whoa, Hoss. St. Louis is near the geographic center of the lower 48 and BMWMOA caters to a motorcycle culture that is not locally oriented, but has a long range, nation wide, long distance travel emphasis. Perhaps you need to get off the sidewalk sometime and see what the rest of the world offers......

[Mika]

There may be other things to consider.

A sub forum takes a certain critical mass of participants to keep up the chatter. It's riding season / vacation season for many and that has always taken the volume out of all forums.

There is a good deal of chatter in general about the RR spread around other sub forums. I bang on with stories in my thread which by nature seems to be a monologue rather than dialog. I see the bike and topics in Motorrad and Campfire.

For all the success of the RR launch it is a niche bike (observation not value judgement). One of the issues with chopping up the forum into multiple subforums is maintaining a viewership to keep them active. The total percentage of RR owners in the association is probably growing but the voice volume is spread out over a lot of ground.

[r11rs94]

Whoa, Hoss. St. Louis is near the geographic center of the lower 48 and BMWMOA caters to a motorcycle culture that is not locally oriented, but has a long range, nation wide, long distance travel emphasis. Perhaps you need to get off the sidewalk sometime and see what the rest of the world offers......

I stopped there last year on my way back from the Rally in Oregon and on my way to the RA Rally in Vermont. I don't know why I wrote this. :dunno

[kewlmoose]

I stopped there last year on my way back from the Rally in Oregon and on my way to the RA Rally in Vermont. I don't know why I wrote this. :dunno

I don't know why you wrote that either! :laugh

The RR is relatively new and is targeted towards the shall we say 'non-traditional' BMW crowd. I expect volume will pick up in a few years.

[racer7]

I'm not sure I'd call the sport bike a niche model except in the BMW brand context. Its sport touring, stds, and nakeds that are less common niches in most places- cruisers and sport bikes dominate the market and road in most places these days. Mika, your thread adds interesting variety to the site for me and I understand your point re critical mass- but there is very little of even the usual "I'm the new owner of a XXX model with some questions" from sport bike owners. And a look through the new member thread doesn't show much either.

Re the MO location - geographic center is an irrelevant point. By that logic there should be a lot more people and economic activity there than there is. Nothing wrong with the place but the hub of motorcycle culture it certainly isn't. No publications of note based there, no famous races, no well known street scene, etc etc. I suppose you could use the existence of modern technology to have MOA at the pole with a satellite link if you wanted to but most organizations of some size pick a location for at least a plausible reason (like where members are centered or the most significant functions happen). I don't know the history but this looks like an accident or random event rather than a reasoned choice.

This is a bike forum and I see no substantive discussion of the working or farkling of the model so from that I infer there are few actual owners of the model participating in MOA discussion and probably only a few more belong to BMWMOA. Comments about the model's race performance etc in other parts of the forum probably do not represent owners of the model.

I have belonged to other groups that failed to plan for younger members. When the organization average member age passed the age where such activity had diminishing interest to participants, membership declined significantly. I do not know if the average age of BMWMOA members is going up, holding steady or declining but the target should be to get it to decrease or at least hold steady. Today I happened to notice the membership recruiting efforts and pricing policies of NESBA, a group that provides track time to bikers. They surprised me because they provide free track opportunities, extremely liberal pay and cancellation policies ,etc and many other practices that are different than those of traditional car track groups with which I am very familiar. Their out of the box approach is clearly aimed at catering to the mostly younger track users (who I suspect in many cases have less $ to play than folks who bring cars to the track). It is certainly going to take some out of the box thinking if BMWMOA is going to attract more of the younger riders.

Given that BMW can market successfully to younger riders (not something many would have guessed a few years ago and look where BMW marketing efforts are run from), maybe BMWMOA could have better results with more deliberate piggyback efforts, if they can be identified. The PA rally site for this year is well located to have attracted sport bike owners from the Philly and NY areas if they were interested. Don't expect there will be many but it would be nice if I was wrong.

[Mika]

snips

Re the MO location - ...I don't know the history but this looks like an accident or random event rather than a reasoned choice. a reasoned choice believe it or not. Agreed not my first choice but a reasoned choice none the less.


I have belonged to other groups that failed to plan for younger members. When the organization average member age passed the age where such activity had diminishing interest to participants, membership declined significantly. I do not know if the average age of BMWMOA members is going up, holding steady or declining but the target should be to get it to decrease or at least hold steady. Today I happened to notice the membership recruiting efforts and pricing policies of NESBA, a group that provides track time to bikers. They surprised me because they provide free track opportunities, extremely liberal pay and cancellation policies ,etc and many other practices that are different than those of traditional car track groups with which I am very familiar. Their out of the box approach is clearly aimed at catering to the mostly younger track users (who I suspect in many cases have less $ to play than folks who bring cars to the track). It is certainly going to take some out of the box thinking if BMWMOA is going to attract more of the younger riders.

The MOA average age has been increasing at roughly the same rate as the market in general. Like BMW it about 7 years older than the market average.


Given that BMW can market successfully to younger riders (not something many would have guessed a few years ago and look where BMW marketing efforts are run from), maybe BMWMOA could have better results with more deliberate piggyback efforts, if they can be identified. The PA rally site for this year is well located to have attracted sport bike owners from the Philly and NY areas if they were interested. Don't expect there will be many but it would be nice if I was wrong.

I am not as certain as you seem to be about BMW's ability to market to a successfully to younger riders. A long debate for another thread.

For as long as I have been around the MOA it has seen itself as a touring and camping association. In the past it tolerated at best those of us that were sport rider minded. The climate is changing. I think the association would love to support efforts in more directions but for all the talk the membership is not forth coming.

[sfarson]

Well, I just noticed that I'm the author of the last post in this part of the Forum and its dated June 22. Today is July 13.

Doesn't look like MOA is of much interest to the generally younger riders of sportbike which is the most successful launch by the brand in a long time.
...


This is probably part of it. Another factor is while the S1000RR has been a smash hit this past year, its total volume, or ownership count, is still waaaaaay below that of GS, RT, F, K bike, etc. owners built up over many, many years... reflected in the activity here. I see the same thing at sportbike forums. Peanut activity in the S1000RR subforum, while years of CBR, GSXR, ZX, YZF, etc. owners dominate the threads/content/posts, etc.

[CTellman]

As a 63 year old rider I am not your average S1000RR driver. I am an average airhead driver. I have been on BMWs off and on for 40 years. I was drawn to the marque because of reliability, simplicity and a strong heritage. I continue to own an old airhead for that reason.
The S1000RR, while it is exciting and safe and blindingly fast is attractive to a new group of afficianados because it is the fastest and not too expensive. I have never seen another in my area but sportbikes are all over and ridden by young men in muscle shirts and 1/2 helmets. They are unaware of the history or that BMW motorcycles are considered great bikes because of their performance, longevity and unusual approach to motorcycling throughout the world.
The S1000RR is a fantastic bike in almost every way but it is so different from the past models that made BMW important to this group.
Campbell Tellman II
'93 R100RT
'11 S1000RR
See you at Bloomsburg!
:thumb

[SugarHillCTD]

Whatever group the RR is targeted towards, today I heard a very interesting comment.

Our daughter is a very fit 23 y.o. rider, track day participant (and FAST bicycle roadracer). She rides the '02 ZX6R in my signature and really likes it.

This weekend we met her and her S.O. at my nephew's wedding.

We were talking motorcycles and she actually admitted that she would ride an S1000RR. Understand that while she is a good rider, looks are VERY important to her and there is no other BMW that she would ever throw a leg over. She has always called BMWs "old people's bikes", even the K1300S.

The RR is that different to a 23 y.o. Pretty powerful- even more so if you (sort-of) know how form equals function to that age range.

[Visian]

Anybody ever ask themselves why this group has a headquarters in the middle of nowhere re motorcycle culture and an approach that is apparently without any results in reaching a large group of BMW owners? I'm too old (nearly 65) to want one of the sportbikes but I sure like those kids- I've taught their car culture equivalent for a long time and they are just plain fun to be with...

i've got a few ideas in this respect.... :evil

the location of our headquarters has nothing to do with whether we have something to offer the sportbike crowd.

the overarching question is, does the sportbike crowd have any interest in joining a club? if yes, what is it? if not, what else would they be interested in doing and is it anything we can provide?

ian

[JavaD]

The sportbike crowd is no different then any other sub-culture of a larger community. If they do not want to join, they will not.

[Visian]

The sportbike crowd is no different then any other sub-culture of a larger community. If they do not want to join, they will not.

unless you've done the research, this is an opinion. i've had some conversations with others that are knowledgeable about this segment and their opinions are different than yours. in candor, some of these people are black, and the S1000RR is very appealing to this community. i've hung out with these folks a bit and they are very very different in how they interact with each other and with their bike.

for sure, when you strip away everything but the person, there are joiners and there are loners.

the questions i have are:

- if a joiner, what type of club are you interested in joining (e.g. only sportbikes but of all types, all types of bikes in a marque, only sportbikes of the marque... etc.)

- what are the dimensions of the discussion (riding, tuning, racing, other tech... or social, or stunting, or gang banging... ha, those last two would be us, eh?)

- how could a club expand your enjoyment of ownership and riding

.... and others. we should be doing research into this segment.

ian

[naddy100]

Vision's thoughts here seem pretty sound.

Noel

[crazydrummerdude]

Doesn't look like MOA is of much interest to the generally younger riders of sportbike which is the most successful launch by the brand in a long time.

I have no numbers to back up my opinion, but I'd be willing to bet the average age of a S1000RR rider is still far greater than the average age of a GSXR/ZX/whatever rider. As such, why would you expect a sudden wave of "young" RR riders to take the step to join the MOA and the bigger step to devote time to the admittedly-dead MOA forums?

Additionally, I know of NO S1000RR riders who are remotely near my age. Of the people who are near my age and on a BMW, it's 9 times out of 10 an airhead. Of the people who are near my age on a motorcycle, 99 times out of 100, it's not on a BMW.

BMW's are rich old guy bikes. That's what the numbers say. That's the way it's been for BMW for ~88 years, and the MOA ~39 years. Sounds like it's working out for both organizations thus far.

Anybody ever ask themselves why this group has a headquarters in the middle of nowhere re motorcycle culture and an approach that is apparently without any results in reaching a large group of BMW owners?

:ha Wow.

[39520]

There were some excellent S1000RR boards already very active before this sub-forum was started. In fact they were popular long before the RR ever arrived in the US, and you did not have to pay dues to a club to use them. At least one of them was rumored to have some mildly helpful relationship with BMWNA.

BTW I am 58 and I owned an RR for 15 months. It undid decades of trying to learn to ride in a safe and law abiding manner. I sold it before I ended up in jail or the hospital. Awesome machine.

[Visian]

i spent some time talking to this member out in Oregon last year. He was from Baker, OR (east end of the state) and said he was having a great time.

if we could only get some S1000RR riders to come to a rally, i think they'd enjoy themselves.

http://visian.smugmug.com/Tours/Oregon-Vacation/IMG1831/960663233_s3xaV-L.jpg

[Mika]

i spent some time talking to this member out in Oregon last year. He was from Baker, OR (east end of the state) and said he was having a great time.

if we could only get some S1000RR riders to come to a rally, i think they'd enjoy themselves.



I saw a production of Pagliacci years ago when I went to Europe the first time. I went with some friends that I was traveling with. To my surprise I really did enjoy it even though I didn't understand a word. I have been to a few more but not many. Pagliacci is a fond memory from that trip; however, if opera were all Europe had to offer I doubt I would have gone back so many times.

Went to my first rally when I was roughly the same age (in BMW MOA member years). Had a great time. Went to another. Regardless of the grumbling before and after the association puts on a great rally. I heartily agree that if they went to the rally the S1000RR riders would enjoy themselves. However, I have to wonder if everything we have to offer as an association boils down to the rally and attending it as the ultimate in membership experience how many RR riders would ever show.

[Polarbear]

Most younger folk say this about BMWs, all through my BMW life:). "Different" would be another word I've heard. German bikes used to be an engineering phenom, way back, bikes with lengendary longevity and miles. Much moreso than attracting youth, so to speak. Its changed slightly, an understatement. All the bikes today have longer lives, so BMW searches for another niche. 10-20 years will tell a huge story as to BMWMOA still being alive, as todays members grow into old age. ME, I ride to 80 and beyond 90+:). Our avg. member age should become interesting!. And, my younger family IS riding BMWs:), in there 20s....:clap

[From MARS]

..........
Went to my first rally when I was roughly the same age (in BMW MOA member years). Had a great time. Went to another. Regardless of the grumbling before and after the association puts on a great rally. I heartily agree that if they went to the rally the S1000RR riders would enjoy themselves. However, I have to wonder if everything we have to offer as an association boils down to the rally and attending it as the ultimate in membership experience how many RR riders would ever show.

My guess is that any S1000RR riders that attend the rally are going to be locals. I don't think owners of this bike are going to ride them across the country to attend a rally. The MOA and BMW marketing dept are on diverging paths.

Tom

[Visian]

However, I have to wonder if everything we have to offer as an association boils down to the rally and attending it as the ultimate in membership experience how many RR riders would ever show.

no... the rally is just the gateway drug. :ha

[Visian]

My guess is that any S1000RR riders that attend the rally are going to be locals. I don't think owners of this bike are going to ride them across the country to attend a rally.

maybe... it might depend on what incentives are in place and how well we reach out to these riders. (or, trailer-ers as the case may be...)

i heard it said by a BMW official that the reason the S1000 riders don't ride to rallies is that the bike is too uncomfortable to ride more than 100 miles...

[Mika]

My guess is that any S1000RR riders that attend the rally are going to be locals. I don't think owners of this bike are going to ride them across the country to attend a rally. The MOA and BMW marketing dept are on diverging paths.Tom

We are on the same path when it comes to the traditional BMW market. The difference is BMW has found a way to remain committed to serving those markets while expanding into others. For all our window dressing I am not certain we are really interested/able in expanding our market/customer base.

no... the rally is just the gateway drug. :ha

Politically they may not agree with Nancy but when it comes to rallies many sport riders do and ...

http://pointlessbanter.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/justsayno.jpg

maybe... it might depend on what incentives are in place and how well we reach out to these riders. (or, trailer-ers as the case may be...)

i heard it said by a BMW official that the reason the S1000 riders don't ride to rallies is that the bike is too uncomfortable to ride more than 100 miles...

I can't agree with you more when you pitch doing market research to find out what BMW owners in these new to us market segments are interested in and would like to have in an organization like ours. Without actually talking with them in a market research manner I couldn't disagree more more.

[39520]

maybe... it might depend on what incentives are in place and how well we reach out to these riders. (or, trailer-ers as the case may be...)

i heard it said by a BMW official that the reason the S1000 riders don't ride to rallies is that the bike is too uncomfortable to ride more than 100 miles...

Interesting. I hit the 600-mile-time-for-service-mark in two rides on my RR.

[CTellman]

I can easily do 200-300 mile days on mine. Seat is more comfy than R100RT. Once wrists are conditioned to forward riding I am good to go.
The bike would look silly with panniers. I have a BMW tailbag that looks and works great. Too small to travel.
I am a teacher and the kids think the bike is cool. They think I am cool too!
Campbell Tellman II
'93 R100RT
'11 S1000RR
:thumb

[piperjim]

Seems that BMW is satisfied with their place in the motorcycle world. I still lust for some cool BMW t-shirts, hats, and other gear with the BMW logo. Go in any Harley dealer and you can find everything from leather jackets to toilet seats with their logo. BMW is more protective than a first-time mother at a Raiders vs. 49'ers football game when it comes to their logo and trademark.

If they're happy being in 7th place with 1% of US sales vs. HD at 1st place with 28% (http://knol.google.com/k/the-u-s-motorcycle-market#), I'm not losing sleep over it. :dunno

[JavaD]

As I was cleaning out a closet, I found an old (2007-era) BMW sticker sheet with 4 cartoon motorcycles: F800 Stuntwars champion, HP2 enduro Baja 500 top 5 finisher, K12S Bonneville Landspeed Record, R1200S Daytona MotoST winner.

Do rich old guys like or need cartoon stickers? Generally no, but their kids or grandkids do. Seems like BMW was planting a seed now that I look at the sheet from 4 years ago and reflect on all that's happened in that time.

Sometimes trying something new, or different than what is traditional is hard to accept. It becomes easier to criticize and attack then reach out and understand.

Sadly, those who do try something new, usually are the ones attacked and criticized and therefore do not try again. Even if their ideas are what is needed for the future.

[36654]

I have no numbers to back up my opinion, but I'd be willing to bet the average age of a S1000RR rider is still far greater than the average age of a GSXR/ZX/whatever rider. As such, why would you expect a sudden wave of "young" RR riders to take the step to join the MOA and the bigger step to devote time to the admittedly-dead MOA forums?

Additionally, I know of NO S1000RR riders who are remotely near my age. Of the people who are near my age and on a BMW, it's 9 times out of 10 an airhead. Of the people who are near my age on a motorcycle, 99 times out of 100, it's not on a BMW.

BMW's are rich old guy bikes. That's what the numbers say. That's the way it's been for BMW for ~88 years, and the MOA ~39 years. Sounds like it's working out for both organizations thus far.



:ha Wow.


Hey, not to hijack the thread, but did you graduate from college, yet? You seemed to be on a good path, but I haven't seen any posts for a while. I'm just curious and hoping that it's all working out.

[Visian]

Additionally, I know of NO S1000RR riders who are remotely near my age.

Nathan - go to an AMA Pro Drag race and have your eyes opened. :nod

http://visian.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/ValdostaDrags/IMG4061/1089341901_ZZHkC-L.jpg

http://visian.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/ValdostaDrags/IMG4270/1089375334_yBP6e-L.jpg

[brewmeister]

Hay I said earlier a crotch rocket is a crotch rocket is a crotch rocket but that is what young people tend to like.Years back with the kawi Z-1's or the now old hyabusa's,or the old kz1000's.I liked them but they just are NOT a TOURING motorcycle which is what brought me to BMW in the first place.Like compareing apples to oranges. My brothers son has a honda 600 that I rode and WOW what a lightweight handfull!! To much singing to the wrong quire.

[JavaD]

unless you've done the research, this is an opinion. i've had some conversations with others that are knowledgeable about this segment and their opinions are different than yours. in candor, some of these people are black, and the S1000RR is very appealing to this community. i've hung out with these folks a bit and they are very very different in how they interact with each other and with their bike.

for sure, when you strip away everything but the person, there are joiners and there are loners.

the questions i have are:

- if a joiner, what type of club are you interested in joining (e.g. only sportbikes but of all types, all types of bikes in a marque, only sportbikes of the marque... etc.)

- what are the dimensions of the discussion (riding, tuning, racing, other tech... or social, or stunting, or gang banging... ha, those last two would be us, eh?)

- how could a club expand your enjoyment of ownership and riding
.... and others. we should be doing research into this segment.

ian

I've had to anlayze areas for mishap research and surprisingly the same attitudes, just differernt genres of motorcycles, was very glaring.

[NCStephen]

Has our society changed to where joining things to become an official part of a group isn't seen as something that needs to be done? What perception does 'joining' offer someone in positive ways. What is the perception of negative things about joining hold.

I see many groups struggling with this, churches, civic groups, bike clubs.

What was offered in joining 30 years ago compared to today?

No answers here, just pondering the phenomenon of needing to join vs not needing to join.

In many ways it comes down to a perceived WITFM (Whats In It For Me) vs at what cost.

For sure the closeness of contact via electronic means is one thing. I know when considering something I can easily reach out and touch a number of folks about a ride, going out to eat, joining me for an event, ask for help or advice on a project. I think that a new model of 'clubs' will have to be understood in order to help any group successful evolve to how things are done with those several generations behind me.

[Mika]

Has our society changed to where joining things to become an official part of a group isn't seen as something that needs to be done? What perception does 'joining' offer someone in positive ways. What is the perception of negative things about joining hold.

-snip-

In many ways it comes down to a perceived WITFM (Whats In It For Me) vs at what cost.

-snip-

I think that a new model of 'clubs' will have to be understood in order to help any group successful evolve to how things are done with those several generations behind me.

My fuzzy thoughts on your interesting comments

I don't think the herding nature of our species has change. What has changed is the way we go about it and how the herds gain structure.

Cost benefit analysis plays a role in analyzing this but, in my opinion, is father down the list of key factors than we tend to think and give importance too.

I am not certain it takes that much of a new model as it takes understanding the who what and why that is causing people to herd in any given time. In any time you can point out organizations, parties, clubs etc that did not adapt to changes and became irrelevant to a large enough population to keep themselves viable.

[PGlaves]

On the loners/joiners theme, today's instant communication and electronic interaction has a bearing on the issue. When BMW MOA was formed it was partly a social group but inherently a way to share scarce technical information about these bikes with a less than perfect national distributor and a scant dealer network. Those needs were the Genesis of the local clubs, and MOA was formed almost as a club of clubs.

Today the parts fiche is on line. So are service manuals. Email lists, Forae (plural of forum in Latin) and numerous web pages provide tech info and support. Some groups, Long Distance Riders comes to mind, announce and get crowds at local or less local rides-to-eat and other events without having a club structure to go with it. A note on an email list or forum might get 50 or 150 folks together on a Saturday for lunch or dinner. Face time! Then there is Facebook.

Times are changing and any organization needs to run to keep up.

[crazydrummerdude]

On the loners/joiners theme, today's instant communication and electronic interaction has a bearing on the issue. When BMW MOA was formed it was partly a social group but inherently a way to share scarce technical information about these bikes with a less than perfect national distributor and a scant dealer network. Those needs were the Genesis of the local clubs, and MOA was formed almost as a club of clubs.

Today the parts fiche is on line. So are service manuals. Email lists, Forae (plural of forum in Latin) and numerous web pages provide tech info and support. Some groups, Long Distance Riders comes to mind, announce and get crowds at local or less local rides-to-eat and other events without having a club structure to go with it. A note on an email list or forum might get 50 or 150 folks together on a Saturday for lunch or dinner. Face time! Then there is Facebook.

Times are changing and any organization needs to run to keep up.

Nailed it.

Signed,
A 25-year old with many forae and a facebook account.

[PHMarvin]

Forae (plural of forum in Latin)

Hi, Paul,
Forum is the singular, a neuter gender word in Latin. The plural of forum is fora. If it were a feminine gender noun and the singular were fora, then the plural would, indeed, be forae. Just like the singular is medium, the plural is media. I could be wrong, of course. I studied Latin 50 years ago (Latin I in the '61-'62 school year, Latin II in the '62-'63 school year. So, as I said, I could be wrong. (DamnedifIknow, DamnedifIknare, DamnedifIknavi, DamnedifIknatus sum)

[barryg]

I knew I should have taken Latin back in high school. What was I thinking?

[brewmeister]

Latin?? there is enough illegals here!:rofl:rofl:rofl

[ncsonderman]

Nailed it.

Signed,
A 25-year old with many forae and a facebook account.

I agree with both. I've been involved with many groups that weren't "formal", yet we'd end up with fairly well organized gatherings for rides and meals without any true club status.

One way to get S1000RR riders to be involved in rallies would be to offer those at sites that offered a track close by. I think that many, myself included, would be more likely to attend a rally that had the opportunity to attend a track day or two during the day and enjoy a rally type atmosphere at night. There would be plenty of locations around the country that could accomodate such an event. Would that be out of the question?

Just an idea that would seem to satisfy both types of riding interests.

[Visian]

Signed,
A 25-year old with many forae and a facebook account.

what... no Google+ account???

get with it, you old fart. :ha

[JavaD]

I agree with both. I've been involved with many groups that weren't "formal", yet we'd end up with fairly well organized gatherings for rides and meals without any true club status.

One way to get S1000RR riders to be involved in rallies would be to offer those at sites that offered a track close by. I think that many, myself included, would be more likely to attend a rally that had the opportunity to attend a track day or two during the day and enjoy a rally type atmosphere at night. There would be plenty of locations around the country that could accomodate such an event. Would that be out of the question?

Just an idea that would seem to satisfy both types of riding interests.

Hmm...this may be a possibility for the future...

[Visian]

Hmm...this may be a possibility for the future...

:evil

[Visian]

Some groups, Long Distance Riders comes to mind, announce and get crowds at local or less local rides-to-eat and other events without having a club structure to go with it.

this is the heart of my joiner/loner question.... how much do people feel a need to belong anymore vs. just get some info and go do their own thing?

we have two primary appeals: timely & relevant info, and community.

one appeals to the need to be informed about a person's bike and activities surrounding it.

the other appeals to the need to feel as being part of a group.

yes, the Internet has pried open the timely & relevant info box.

but i am not sure where the sportbike crowd stands on the group thing. if there still is a need, what is it centered upon? Brand of bike? Type of riding? Other? Does belonging require meat-space interaction or does an avatar and an on-line reputation do the trick?

And... if there is a need to belong, is there a perceived value equal to a club's annual dues? :dunno

ian

[Jogitu]

I've got an idea. If you want a younger crowd then fix the tap-a-talk issue. Since most people have smart phones now this an issue BMW MOA needs to address. Sometime this fall the Apple devices will go to OS 5 with cloud. This will do away with the need for a PC. Other devices will follow and some have already gone this direction. Tablets and smart phones will take over at some point. What this means is that not fixing whatever the issue is with the old security software means people will not be able to access the forum to post. Essentially you can access the forum now but cannot participate. How is that possibly good? This issue has been ignored by MOA and needs to be addressed soon. When you sell suspenders and trucker hats on the web site it speaks volumes. You are not trying to attract younger members. You must keep up with tech in this world and you must attract new and younger members. BMW has a plan, does the MOA?

PS. Don't jump me I am just the messenger. I am a member but reality is what it is.

[dancogan]

...PS. Don't jump me I am just the messenger. I am a member but reality is what it is.

I believe a lot of what you have to say applies to members other than the sport bike crowd ... regardless of how old we are! lol

[Visian]

I've got an idea. If you want a younger crowd then fix the tap-a-talk issue.

yup. i am not a huge fan of Tapatalk, but it sure would be nice if it worked for those who use it.

wish we had moved to a modern AAA solution years ago.... it's really dogging us now.

When you sell suspenders and trucker hats on the web site it speaks volumes.

:ha

[64729]

Well, I just noticed that I'm the author of the last post in this part of the Forum and its dated June 22. Today is July 13.

Doesn't look like MOA is of much interest to the generally younger riders of sportbike which is the most successful launch by the brand in a long time.

RA is at least trying- don't know if they're doing any better, yet, though.

Anybody ever ask themselves why this group has a headquarters in the middle of nowhere re motorcycle culture and an approach that is apparently without any results in reaching a large group of BMW owners? I'm too old (nearly 65) to want one of the sportbikes but I sure like those kids- I've taught their car culture equivalent for a long time and they are just plain fun to be with...

I can see the point your trying to make.

The ONLY way we keep the MOA going is to offer something for the 'YOUNGER' riders.
The last (2) Rallys I've been to, I bet the AVERAGE age was 50+.
That would be the 49er and, Autum Beemer Bash.

[robert.bantly]

It's funny to see this post - I enjoy the MOA because it isn't the sharky community like the SoCal sportbike scene I was out and about in during my 30's/ZX11 years. At 48 I prefer the relaxed nature of MOA GTG's and low-keyness, and also prefer my sportbiking to be with very small groups now, and the competition muted. It really cuts down on the accident factor and plastic litter on interesting roads.

However, when the MOA sent me their survey, I replied with a very detailed list of reasons gathered from my 24 year old son and his buddies. Here's what they want:

1.) To meet gals their age that ride..don't we all?
2.) To meet gals...

3.) They thought the bigger MOA events were good, but wanted these types of events locally and lower cost; IOW more local clubs doing stuff. Since they mostly ride sportbikes, a 500 mile + trip is more or less out of the question. Never stopped me but this is the XBox generation.

4.) Money for them is a big concern and although brand cost for a BMW is an issue, maintenance cost is too.

His BMW pick was an F800ST but we couldn't find a nice used one that wasn't lowered, so he ended up with an SV650. Nice bike though he would have ridden the ST more due to comfort.

Also, the younger folks do tend to be more competitive, and more inclined to take unsupported risks (riding outside the envelope, etc). I guess in the end, I think the MOA caters to the age group it caters to and that's probably a good thing.

I'll be showing up at the next local KY rally on the 1000RR just for fun though : )

[39520]

Having stunt bikes at the Nationals is a quantum leap into the late twentieth century by MOA and BMWNA. I never thought I would live long enough to see that at an MOA Rally, and I sure enjoy it. Maybe having a non-geezer band at the beer tent might help as well. Leave the nostalgia cover bands and country bands on the main stage playing to the main crowd.

[bikerfish1100]

I'll be showing up at the next local KY rally on the 1000RR just for fun though : )

just curious, but what exactly is a KY rally? Anything like a Vaseline rally?

[Pauls1150]

That's a slippery slope... :whistle

[robert.bantly]

If you show up at a rally in K entuck Y....

you might just hear banjo music!!!!! :clap

[wayneswan]

I joined the MOA right before ordering my S1RR in '09. I was 41.
I keep hearing about members that have been around for 20+, even 30+ years....they didn't join when they were 50, so youngin's have been members fer quite some time.
I do spend a lot more time on another forum site where the smart-ass youngin's provide most of my on-line moto-tainment. But my membership here isn't in jeopardy. When I need that pure BMW mainline hit, I come here to get it. It's just different flavors...

LONG LIVE THE MOA!

[JavaD]

It's funny to see this post - I enjoy the MOA because it isn't the sharky community like the SoCal sportbike scene I was out and about in during my 30's/ZX11 years. At 48 I prefer the relaxed nature of MOA GTG's and low-keyness, and also prefer my sportbiking to be with very small groups now, and the competition muted. It really cuts down on the accident factor and plastic litter on interesting roads.

However, when the MOA sent me their survey, I replied with a very detailed list of reasons gathered from my 24 year old son and his buddies. Here's what they want:

1.) To meet gals their age that ride..don't we all?
2.) To meet gals...

3.) They thought the bigger MOA events were good, but wanted these types of events locally and lower cost; IOW more local clubs doing stuff. Since they mostly ride sportbikes, a 500 mile + trip is more or less out of the question. Never stopped me but this is the XBox generation.

4.) Money for them is a big concern and although brand cost for a BMW is an issue, maintenance cost is too.

His BMW pick was an F800ST but we couldn't find a nice used one that wasn't lowered, so he ended up with an SV650. Nice bike though he would have ridden the ST more due to comfort.

Also, the younger folks do tend to be more competitive, and more inclined to take unsupported risks (riding outside the envelope, etc). I guess in the end, I think the MOA caters to the age group it caters to and that's probably a good thing.

I'll be showing up at the next local KY rally on the 1000RR just for fun though : )

Those views were incorporated into the GT Giant format of events. The program was designed to bring our members together with an activity to do before and during the rally (Giant Trip), then at the rally, the competition gymkhana (Giant Track competition) with a professional rider to bring out the competitor in us all. Finally, the Saturday morning "Coffee with..." session will bring all the Giants together to talk and discuss what they learned and how it impacted them and what to do for the future.

Maybe this tactic could be tried: Any bike is accepted, yes we do swear by the blue/white roundel, but any brand is accepted in our fold. :thumb

I had two kids walk up to the 450 in Bloomsburg, and they said the same things. Now if I can let the wife believe a RR is a worthwhile investment with our other 3 track bikes...