New to Forum, Is there Classifies

[garry_kramer]

Is the a forum for Classifies for members? Buy & Sell?

[dano]

Is the a forum for Classifies for members? Buy & Sell?


Not that I'm aware of.....but it sounds like a great idea!! :thumb

[username]

i think that one is in the works.

[YB in IN]

I believe that the web team is going to integrate an online classified section once they get the new site up with the memebers only section.

[bugley]

Is the a forum for Classifies for members? Buy & Sell?

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE MOA, MAKE A CLASSIFIED SECTION A REALITY. Could be members only or open to the general public. Open to the public opens up the possibility of bringing non BMW riders into the family.

Personally, I don't care, just please get us an online CLASSIFIED SECTION.

Thanks,

[username]

when the members only section opens, i plan to go out and purchase a members only jacket. i want a grey one, with snaps. perhaps someone will sell them in the classified section.

[lorazepam]

Hey, it is what makes our forum unique. We are the ONLY motorcycle forum I visit that DOESNT have a classified section. What amazes me is that if you look at the classifieds in the ON, almost all lf them have an EMAIL address attached to them. Call them or email them and I bet the stuff is sold because it was ONLINE somewhere else.

I know I want to list my stuff in the ON and wait a couple months before anyone knows it is for sale. I resist putting in online, because I know that no one riding a BMW would ever look online for something to buy from a fellow rider.

[dano]

I have a genuine BMW patch. Does that qualify me as a forum member? :dunno

[lorazepam]

I have a genuine BMW patch. Does that qualify me as a forum member? :dunno
Only if it is an eye patch AAAAARRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

[Hodag]

couldn't decide which comment, you pick:

stupid comment #1
We don't need no classified section, how many times do I have to tell you guys these computers and the internet is just a passing fancy. An overblown fad. So 20th century


Stupid comment #2
Wanted to buy
A clasified section on this forum, willing to pay $32 a year for this.


stupid comment #3
what we need is some personels
MWM looking for older GS for dirty fun, looks un-important, its what inside that counts.

[kbasa]

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE MOA, MAKE A CLASSIFIED SECTION A REALITY. Could be members only or open to the general public. Open to the public opens up the possibility of bringing non BMW riders into the family.

Personally, I don't care, just please get us an online CLASSIFIED SECTION.

Thanks,

Sooooooooooooooooooon.

Believe me. I've been arguing for it since the day we started this forum.

[Buzzez]

Sooooooooooooooooooon.

Believe me. I've been arguing for it since the day we started this forum.


So what's the hold up? :dunno

[kbasa]

One of the things we think MOA forum classifieds will add is freedom from scammers. The ads will be visible only to other MOA members, so the folks that scam online advertising won't be able to see them.

To do that, we need to make some final implementations to finish the split of the site into member and non-member sides. The folks that do the development for the MOA's membership database products are helping us get vBulletin, iMIS and the other products fully integrated into a single log in structure. When that happens, which should be fairly soon, we'll get classifieds and other member specific items up here on the site.

I think that step will really propel the importance of the web site forward as part of our strategy to provide more services, content and value to the members.

[Buzzez]

So how would that work? Would non members be able to view items for sale but not respond, or would they just not be able to post an ad? Having member / non-member sections sounds complicated.

[kbasa]

So how would that work? Would non members be able to view items for sale but not respond, or would they just not be able to post an ad? Having member / non-member sections sounds complicated.

From the user perspective, it's quite simple. You're a member of a user group, which allows you to see specific forums. For example, regular registered users can't see the super secret Mod Lounge and Cigar Bar. We'll arrange the forum so that non registered members can see that there's a classifieds section and maybe the thread titles, but they won't be able to open the threads and look inside for the particulars. We can do all this using the tools that are available on the forum right now, in combination with the membership database.

We think this will accomplish two things. It'll encourage people to join the MOA and it will protect sellers by allowing only MOA members to see their items for sale.

From the user perspective, it'll be simple. You'll log in as usual and you'll see the stuff your membership entitles you to see.

[Buzzez]

Well let's do it then. Chop, chop. I've got a K75s I'm thinking of selling :p

[MarkF]

Hey, it is what makes our forum unique. We are the ONLY motorcycle forum I visit that DOESNT have a classified section. What amazes me is that if you look at the classifieds in the ON, almost all lf them have an EMAIL address attached to them. Call them or email them and I bet the stuff is sold because it was ONLINE somewhere else.

I know I want to list my stuff in the ON and wait a couple months before anyone knows it is for sale. I resist putting in online, because I know that no one riding a BMW would ever look online for something to buy from a fellow rider.

I listed a windshield in the ON and online in a few places last fall. Sold it shortly thereafter. Then started getting phone calls a month and a half later. At first I didn't know what they were talking about. Then I remembered I submitted it for the ON. Guess I should have held out for a higher price. If you are selling something old or strange there is no better place to get a few buyers than the ON. But, I didn't get any emails from the ON listing.

Mark11LT, I like stupid comment #3 best!

[Hodag]

Mark11LT, I like stupid comment #3 best!

get a life...
we need to sit down and get drunk some time.

[GregFeeler]

Well let's do it then. Chop, chop. I've got a K75s I'm thinking of selling :p

Would yesterday be soon enough? ;)

The 'MOA has a "web team" made of members involved in the "technical" and "content" areas. As Dave said, we have plans for an on-line classified section, along with a LOT of other really cool stuff. However, we are still working through some nasty little technical issues to get to where we can split the site and start implementing the new stuff. I don't know how many of you have done any computer support, but it really ain't over, 'till it's over.

But, we'll get there and just as soon as we can! The whole web team wants these improvements just as much (if not more :clap ) than anyone else. You should see the pile of used stuff I'm saving up!!

[kbasa]

Well let's do it then. Chop, chop. I've got a K75s I'm thinking of selling :p

Hey, we've got a Roadster we need to get rid of too.

[BradfordBenn]

I have a hunch that this issue is going to continue to be a key item until it gets implements which is really within sight. The goal is to make it of value and the web team has been thinking long and hard about the right way to implement it. Plus we want it to be easy for everyone.

[krs71]

if they want ideas, they can go to www.e46fanatics.com, it's a bmw 3 series site with a similar setup as here.

[kbasa]

if they want ideas, they can go to www.e46fanatics.com, it's a bmw 3 series site with a similar setup as here.

I like it. I like the feedback thing too, though I'd bet there's a fair amount of moderation that needs to happen with that.

I think we'd like to set it up so that only registered users can see the ads. That sort of replicates that experience of getting a copy of the magazine in your mailbox - it's not for the general public. For folks that are tired of dealing with scammers, restricted viewing would be a Good Thing.

[1505]

Classifieds on this forum could save BMWMOA the time and expense of printing adds in the ON.
Also need a WANTED section within the classified section.

[lorazepam]

Classifieds on this forum could save BMWMOA the time and expense of printing adds in the ON.
Also need a WANTED section within the classified section.


Man, dont hit that hornets nest with a stick. You are talking sacred ground, and untouchable, though obsolete information.

[GregFeeler]

Man, dont hit that hornets nest with a stick. You are talking sacred ground, and untouchable, though obsolete information.

Buzzzzzzzz :stick What shows up where will be up to the individual memeber. You will be able to place a listing on the web, in print, or both. Print has a 38,000 member "push" so will hang in there for a while - but water will find it's own level (or is that beer?). :drink

[lorazepam]

Tried to buy anything out of the ON classifieds lately Greg? Most of it is sold long before the magazine hits the presses. Imagine trying to list a bike today, and using that as the only way to sell it. You wouldnt get your bike listed till riding season is half over.
The On classifieds were great 20 years ago, but now, they are just something to see how much folks want for the stuff.

I like the ON, but times have changed. the internet has made classifieds pretty much obsolete except for the ones who refuse to step into the 21st century.

[GregFeeler]

Tried to buy anything out of the ON classifieds lately Greg? Most of it is sold long before the magazine hits the presses. Imagine trying to list a bike today, and using that as the only way to sell it. You wouldnt get your bike listed till riding season is half over.
The On classifieds were great 20 years ago, but now, they are just something to see how much folks want for the stuff.

I like the ON, but times have changed. the internet has made classifieds pretty much obsolete except for the ones who refuse to step into the 21st century.


Dood, you'll get no argument from me. I've been working on this for some time and now it's really close. :clap But, if other folks want to have us print their ads in the ON, we'll do it - their call. Yeah, lots has changed in just the last ten years -how many people had Internet access then, or a cell phone, or a PDA? Like they say, "this changes everything".

[BradfordBenn]

Definitely a topic of much debate, sometimes a new approach to an old problem is a good idea. So my suggestion is that the two should be mutually exclusive to each other. One can put an advertisement in the flea market hardcopy or online, but not both. There are still people who like the printed page. Including me. I too am frustrated at how much stuff is gone from ON when I call for it. :cry

[lorazepam]

I too am frustrated at how much stuff is gone from ON when I call for it. :cry

I dont bother to call the ON ads anymore. Rather look on the forums and snatch it up right after it has been posted. :type

[GregFeeler]

Definitely a topic of much debate, sometimes a new approach to an old problem is a good idea. So my suggestion is that the two should be mutually exclusive to each other. One can put an advertisement in the flea market hardcopy or online, but not both. There are still people who like the printed page. Including me. I too am frustrated at how much stuff is gone from ON when I call for it. :cry

Brad,
Why do you think it would be good to make them exclusive? And, followup question, how would you police that?

[BradfordBenn]

Brad,
Why do you think it would be good to make them exclusive?

The reason I would like to see them exclusive is for the reason that Loraz pointed out, that when the advertisement comes out in ON items might already be sold through other methods. Also with the 45 day lead time for press versus moments for online, the amount of items that will already be sold by the time the magazine arrives would probably go up.

Brad,
And, followup question, how would you police that?

The policiing could be done in various ways, probably the easiest would be a scenario where a database engine is the classified system with various rules about who, how often, listing lengths, and the like coded into it. So if one wanted to list an item, the submittal form would ask such things as:

1) Your membership number (if the site is secure and one is already logged in, that can be done transparently)
2) Your name (same thing)
3) Contact information for the advertisement phone, fax, e-mail, URL, carrier pigeon ... etc.
4) Listing Method Online or Magazine with a radio box, much like the message icons where only one could be selected
5) Category of item, with categories listed so that people can classify their information, perhaps with a limit of three or four check boxes
6) Picture as a link through our smugmug affinity program

The database engine would also check to insure that the same member is staying within a reasonable listing number guidelines, such as how the current flea market limit is two items per month, perhaps online would be 10 items per week or 10 items active at a time.

Make sense?

[GregFeeler]

The reason I would like to see them exclusive is for the reason that Loraz pointed out, that when the advertisement comes out in ON items might already be sold through other methods. Also with the 45 day lead time for press versus moments for online, the amount of items that will already be sold by the time the magazine arrives would probably go up.

Yeah, but with all the other options on the Internet to sell things (IBMWR, eBay, Cycle Trader, etc.) do you think limiting our members to only one publication is going to do that much good? Don't you think members would see it as heavy handed and over controlling? After all, you're proposing a system that is weighted all in favor of the buyer at the expense of the seller.

I'm just as frustrated as the next person when I call on something I want and it's gone. But, I think that as the utilization of an on-line marketplace increases it will naturally reduce submissions for the ON and the problem will largely take care of itself.

[BradfordBenn]

I think that as the utilization of an on-line marketplace increases it will naturally reduce submissions for the ON and the problem will largely take care of itself.

Well if it will take care of itself, then there is no reason for anyone to think it is heavy handed. To me if someone wants to list it in both, I think that is just impolite as the problems with not being available. But if there is suffecient desire to have the ability to have it listed in both, well then the software can be set up to allow it to be listed in both. Perhaps even with a link in the printed copy to the online advertisement.

There are many options and configurations that can be tweaked, however I think that there is now enough of a desire to have an online solution that we need to figure out something. No matter what is implemented there will always be some situation that does not fit the model.

[lorazepam]

I think that is just impolite as the problems with not being available.
.

That is what is happening now Brad. If we had online classifieds, maybe more foks would get off their ass and get online. The classifieds used to be the way to go prior to the internet, but not any more. Folks who pay first class for their ON are just wasting money now. Rarely is an item still for sale 3 months after beint listed in the ON, it is long gone from being listed online.

Dont mean to speak bad about the magazine, I like it and would like to submit some articles. But the classified section is well on it's way to being history.

I have been really really good about deferring information until the Magazine comes out, but that is goiing to change for me now. If folks are too lazy/cheap to get online then shame on them. I plan on sharing information in real time in the future.

[MarkF]

Dont mean to speak bad about the magazine, I like it and would like to submit some articles. But the classified section is well on it's way to being history.


Agreed. It seems to be filled with items fitting three catagories:
1. Already sold elsewhere
2. Priced too high for sale
3. Nobody wants
It looks good. A lot of variety of stuff. But, thats about it.

[kbasa]

I agree with Greg that it will be "self leveling". Ads will gradually migrate to the medium that works best.

One of the benefits I can see is that as things move to the online outlet, it'll free up space for Sandy to put more content in the magazine. When you fold in the time she probably has to allocate for dealing with the ads, I think she's going to come out ahead for that as well.

So:

- better sales experience via online flea market
- less time spent by Sandy to deal with the ads
- less pages in ON for the classifieds
- more content can be put in ON

I'd call that a good thing all the way around.

[BradfordBenn]

That is what is happening now Brad. If we had online classifieds, maybe more foks would get off their ass and get online. The classifieds used to be the way to go prior to the internet, but not any more. Folks who pay first class for their ON are just wasting money now. Rarely is an item still for sale 3 months after beint listed in the ON, it is long gone from being listed online.

I think we agree on this one Loraz, however we do also have to think that not everyone is computer literate or has a computer. I know that if I have to choose between buying a computer or buying something for the motorcycle... well you can guess. :thumb


Dont mean to speak bad about the magazine, I like it and would like to submit some articles. But the classified section is well on it's way to being history.

I have been really really good about deferring information until the Magazine comes out, but that is goiing to change for me now. If folks are too lazy/cheap to get online then shame on them. I plan on sharing information in real time in the future.

Yup media is changing a lot and our club needs to keep up with member's needs and wants. We just need to remember that not everyone is technosavvy as the forum users are.

[Hodag]

I'll never understand the we have to be fair to the "non-internet-users"

I'm married and have kids, in my life they are priority #1.

Is it fair that some guy writes an article about world travel, and I'm stuck at home??

Is it fair that we review new bikes that will never find their way to my garage?

Is it fair that we have INT'l rallies that are to far away from me?

is it fair.......

Life ain't fair, we all realize this. Why are we being punished because Joe caveman ain't online?

Now lets get something going. Right now we have nothing, even a classified section that is half way decent is better than what we have now. Isn't every IT project a work in process?
Implement, trouble-shoot, fix, repeat


I think snow storms make me cranky

[GregFeeler]

I agree with Greg that it will be "self leveling". Ads will gradually migrate to the medium that works best.

...

So:

- better sales experience via online flea market
- less time spent by Sandy to deal with the ads
- less pages in ON for the classifieds
- more content can be put in ON

I'd call that a good thing all the way around.

I'll ditto Dave. And, to make it clear for everyone we are going to do this - that was already decided well before this thread got started :clap, however, there are some prerequsites yet to be finished in our overall web developement plan. Can't pack the saddle bags before we have the brackets to mount them on the bike. :doh

[GregFeeler]

I'll never understand the we have to be fair to the "non-internet-users"
...

Life ain't fair, we all realize this. Why are we being punished because Joe caveman ain't online?

...

I think snow storms make me cranky

Mark,
Life isn't fair but the leaders of a member-based organization have to take their best shot at it. That other guy has just as much right to his or her wants as you do.

I prescribe a week of 70-degree days, open rolling roads connecting serious twisties, no traffic and even less cops. Evenings to include ample amounts of adult beverages. :thumb

[lorazepam]

Greg, out of the 38k people who get the magazine, how many voted last time? 3k? Hmm, out of the forum folks (~3k) how many voted? I bet over 1k did. Seems to me if you want to win you should be courting the most active folks of the club, and attend to their wishes.
I dont see someone online who is running, guess what, they dont get my vote, cause they have no idea what is going on here, and they will do nothing to change that.
Eventually everyone will be online, and the club's most active members are here, just look at the stuff we do together, it would never happen without the forum. It has gotten me through the winter so far without killing anyone and I am very grateful for it.
The percentage of folks who care about the club reside here in the forum in far greater numbers than the membership in general. I will cast my vote accordingly. Just dont bring the sheep around, ok?

[Hodag]

Mark,
Life isn't fair but the leaders of a member-based organization have to take their best shot at it. That other guy has just as much right to his or her wants as you do.


what does this other guy want?
no web prescence, mimio-graphed one page newsletter, smoke signals???

I miss your point maybe? who are we leaving out?

My point, yes I have the choice, but decline to take advantage of it, because of my own priorities. But now where did I say quit doing, stop, hold the phone....

Much like joe caveman can use this electronic media, but chooses not to. Joe Caveman has made the choice not to buy a computer, to be online, etc. He has not made it a priority, joe caveman has decided for themselves.



How can I help?
What can I do?

mark

[GregFeeler]

Greg, out of the 38k people who get the magazine, how many voted last time? 3k? Hmm, out of the forum folks (~3k) how many voted? I bet over 1k did. Seems to me if you want to win you should be courting the most active folks of the club, and attend to their wishes.
I dont see someone online who is running, guess what, they dont get my vote, cause they have no idea what is going on here, and they will do nothing to change that.
Eventually everyone will be online, and the club's most active members are here, just look at the stuff we do together, it would never happen without the forum. It has gotten me through the winter so far without killing anyone and I am very grateful for it.
The percentage of folks who care about the club reside here in the forum in far greater numbers than the membership in general. I will cast my vote accordingly. Just dont bring the sheep around, ok?

If I'm reading you right you think the wants of folks who spend a lot of time here on the forum are at cross purposes to those who don't? If so, then I guess I'd need you to explain why you think that's so, and what kind of different interests you see.

There's no doubt that on-line activity is going to grow. That's why the Board has spent a lot of member's money and volunteer effort to make improvements to our infrastructure necessary to support things you haven't seen yet, but will over the next year. A lot of foundation has been poured, but please consider that percentage-wise the money to do what we have so far has come mostly from members who - at least yet - are not here yet. But, I believe if we build it they will come.

Over the last three years I have put in hundreds of hours helping to design and build a whole new on-line interface for the 'MOA. However, let me make this very clear - although I'm proud of all the work I've done to move the 'MOA into the present era, I'm not the only one - it's been a team effort. Rob Nye and I have effectively been the "geek squad" on the Board - BUT we've had total support from the other Board members - even those you don't see here making posts.

The web Tech Team also deserves a lot of credit - everyone has ideas and they all help. And, don't forget the folks who had the vision to build the first 'MOA site many years ago. Trust me, there is NO lack of support for building a much larger Internet presence for the BMW MOA.

But, as I said - almost all of what's been done so far is backend stuff, so it's going to be a few more months before things start to happen publicly. Frankly, in a volunteer organization things take a long time to happen, but the labor price is right. ;)

As far as your percentage anaylisis I'd have to say we'd both be wild-ass guessing if we tried to go down that road, and I only do that if we are both holding glasses of cold beer. The real point is to build services for all the membership.

As for the sheep, Peekaboo will be at Ohio for all to see - you really need to meet her. :evil

[GregFeeler]

what does this other guy want?
no web prescence, mimio-graphed one page newsletter, smoke signals???

I miss your point maybe? who are we leaving out?

My point, yes I have the choice, but decline to take advantage of it, because of my own priorities. But now where did I say quit doing, stop, hold the phone....

Much like joe caveman can use this electronic media, but chooses not to. Joe Caveman has made the choice not to buy a computer, to be online, etc. He has not made it a priority, joe caveman has decided for themselves.



How can I help?
What can I do?

mark

Mark,
Dang if this thread didn't get confused. I was responding to your comment that "I'll never understand the we have to be fair to the "non-internet-users", and then you went on to say life isn't fair. My point is we have to try to be fair in running this organization. That's all. To say a member can't list something for sale on both the web and print is, in my mind, not fair. Just as it isn't fair now to not have a web "flea market" for on-line types because "that's already done" in the ON.

Hey, I run the I.T. Department for a national company and part of my job is to push through new technology projects. If I go shopping for something and I can't find it on the 'net, as far as I'm concerned it doesn't exist, so I feel your pain. Even at that, my company gets more hits from our yellow page advertisements than we do from our web site. It's all about balance and respecting other people's choices.

As for how you can help, I fully intend to hit you up with some ideas "soon" - you have so much fire in your belly for this there has to be a way to put the rubber to the road. :thumb

[BradfordBenn]

The reason I think the idea of allowing a person to post in one place at a time is to be fair to the people who are purchasing, so that they don't get their hopes on something that is already sold.

I agree it ain't fair but there are lots of things that ain't fair. I am hoping it is polite. If the concensus is that people should be able to list in both places - then we allow people to list in both places.

The system will self level.

I also see lots of logic to Loraz's point of this being the new BMW MOA Community that he likes. This community has evolved and become part of the MOA, we need to figure out how to merge the two different approaches to the MOA. There are people who the MOA is the monthly magazine, a rally or three a year, and the anon book. Then there is the new digital community that has come about. The two are not exclusive, but the digital community just happens to be the "faster" of the two. So now the rest of the MOA and its infrastructure needs to catch up.

[GregFeeler]

The reason I think the idea of allowing a person to post in one place at a time is to be fair to the people who are purchasing, so that they don't get their hopes on something that is already sold.

I agree it ain't fair but there are lots of things that ain't fair. I am hoping it is polite. If the concensus is that people should be able to list in both places - then we allow people to list in both places.

The system will self level.

I also see lots of logic to Loraz's point of this being the new BMW MOA Community that he likes. This community has evolved and become part of the MOA, we need to figure out how to merge the two different approaches to the MOA. There are people who the MOA is the monthly magazine, a rally or three a year, and the anon book. Then there is the new digital community that has come about. The two are not exclusive, but the digital community just happens to be the "faster" of the two. So now the rest of the MOA and its infrastructure needs to catch up.

Well said.

[MarkF]

The reason I think the idea of allowing a person to post in one place at a time is to be fair to the people who are purchasing, so that they don't get their hopes on something that is already sold.

I agree it ain't fair but there are lots of things that ain't fair. I am hoping it is polite. If the concensus is that people should be able to list in both places - then we allow people to list in both places.

The system will self level.

It will level real fast if you post it on the net first then when you get around to publishing pull it off the net.

[lorazepam]

It will level real fast if you post it on the net first then when you get around to publishing pull it off the net.


Mark, if you post it on the net, it will never be availabe at publication time, or it isnt worh buying. The lead time for classifieds is 3 months.

This was cool in the days before the net, and everyone wanted their ON delivered first class to have first shot at the classifieds. I tried a couple times to buy from the classifieds, and was told it sold long ago.

I am betting if the classifieds are advertised in ON as being online, the first class postage deal will disappear, as will the classifieds themselves.

There will also be a major increase in the online membership.

I believe there are powers that most of us dont know that have been resisting this change, as well as prohibiting the publishing of articles in both the ON and the web. Someone doesnt want to see the change, though it will happen weather they want it or not.

I have yet to hear anyone that contributes to the On say they dont want their stuff placed on the forum, and if the MOA has the article and permission to use it, then I dont see why it cant be placed on here.

If the ON is not owned by the membership, and a separate entitiy, then maybe the membership needs to address this and make the necessary changes.

Publishing the articles online and in the magazine should be a seamless thing, and separating the two may have been necessary in the past due to technical issues. Now we have the ability to do both, and I dont see why we cant.

[MarkF]

Mark, if you post it on the net, it will never be availabe at publication time, or it isnt worh buying. The lead time for classifieds is 3 months.

I am betting if the classifieds are advertised in ON as being online, the first class postage deal will disappear, as will the classifieds themselves.


Exactly :thumb

[GregFeeler]

Mark, if you post it on the net, it will never be availabe at publication time, or it isnt worh buying. The lead time for classifieds is 3 months.

Just for the record, the lead time for ON publication is 45 days.

[kbasa]

I moved this over to Online Central, where we're trying to encourage conversation like this.

[Hodag]

Is there a website vs. ON issue that we don't know about?



As far as print media vs. online media, yes I spend alot of time online, mainly researching, reading, and social. However every night in bed I read print media for 1-2 hours, books, magazines, etc. I wouldn't want to give up either one. I've tried to read books online, but it isn't the same.

Mark