Huge responsibility

[Bob_M]

Ask my wife. I am traveling this summer with a much less experienced rider, my son, James, to Lima. (and perhaps his pal Tony, on a CX500 Honda) James has a good deal of off road experience on motorcycles, so he is familiar with the physical controls of motorcyling. He will have taken a Motorcycle safety course by the time we leave. He also is an urban bicyclist in the dense and congested city of Philadelphia, so he is aware of the hazards of the stupid and preoccupied people with whom one shares the road. I rarely ride with other motorcyclists and really have no lexicon of non-verbal communication between motorcyclists (except my wife's fists on my back). What are some successful methods, by which riders communicate essential information? Hand signals? light flashes etc. ? I am somewhat of a retro-grouch, and have not embraced intercoms. (not talking, while riding, results in my wife and I having lots to talk about when we stop), but I really want to do everything possible to monitor James' fatigue, hunger, fuel and general well being. (at 22 it is possible he will be monitoring my fatigue) I am willing to invest in intercom technology if it is worthwhile. Comments Please (and thanx)

[BobFV1]

Bob - I have gone on several long rides with my 19 year old son Nick, and in a couple of weeks we will do another one to the Laughlin, Nevada River Run and on to california and back. I don't know how far it is from Lima to where you are, but one strategy is just to stop every hour or at most 100 miles in order to top up with gas and relax a bit. I invested in some Kenwood XL's for the first time and we will use them on the Laughlin run. My bike is hard wired, but I will fix Nick up with a radio and amp in his tank bag (he's on the Ducati for this trip - last time we rented a V-Rod for him).

Good luck and ride safe.

[kbasa]

From the AMA web site:

http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/images/groupsignal1.gif

There's more here. (http://www.ama-cycle.org/roadride/groupRideSignals.asp)

[Chacifer]

Fuel: It's a good idea to discuss ahead of time what the average range is for each bike's gas tank. This way everyone has a sense that the next stop for gas/bathroom/whatever will be in X-number-of-miles. Of course, while riding, if there is a great variation in fuel ranges, the person with the longer range may forget about the limitations of the other bikes. When I want to signal to my compadres that I need fuel, I pull up along side them, point to my gas tank, then hold up a number indicating how many miles until I want to stop for fuel. i.e. 5 fingers means fuel in 50miles, 4 fingers means 40miles, etc.

Food/Water/Bathroom: Like the site that Kbasa suggested, I mock the motions of eating or drinking to let people know that I want to stop for reasons other than fuel.

Deer: To let people know that I have seen a deer near the road I do this :nyah but one handed. Sticking out your tongue is optional.

[manicmechanic]

What they said. Just make sure that everybody in the group knows and understands what is meant.

[Visian]

Ask my wife. I am traveling this summer with a much less experienced rider, my son, James, to Lima.
... snip

I am somewhat of a retro-grouch, and have not embraced intercoms. (not talking, while riding, results in my wife and I having lots to talk about when we stop), but I really want to do everything possible to monitor James' fatigue, hunger, fuel and general well being.

I have just gone through this with my 22-y.o. son... and I found that you've got to prepare yourself just as much as you both need to prepare to ride together.

For the past 10 years I've watched my kid fly 90' triples on his MX bikes with barely a wince, but putting him on a street bike for the first time was sheer panic for me. I could *not* take my eyes off the rear mirror.

As we considered MSF training, the frustrating thing was that he already knew how to ride a motorcycle, but they don't let you take the ERC unless you've taken the Beginners course (or that's what I was told). The last thing I needed was my boy showing the instructors how to do stoppies on the little Honda 125 they give you for the course!

So, I put him in a "Street Smarts (http://www.jkminc.com/course.html#301)" class with a local private school run by a good friend of mine. Great investment. He learned about lane positioning and other street survival skills.

Then we discussed hand signals, using the page that Kbasa pointed you to.

Then... the biggest decision... I put him in the front, instead of behind me. I was *much* more comfortable this way as I could keep an eye on him without taking my eye off the road. And he was completely comfortble being there. (It also kept me from passing on the double yellow too much, but that is another story....)

Regarding communication while riding, I understand what you're saying, but I must admit that my wife has enjoyed riding with me a whole lot more... and I can say the same. Haven't tried the bike-to-bike stuff... seems gadgety to me, but... I might give it a go now that I have the Autocom.

Enjoy the ride... you've got a great experience coming.

Ian

[SNC1923]

As we considered MSF training, the frustrating thing was that he already knew how to ride a motorcycle, but they don't let you take the ERC unless you've taken the Beginners course (or that's what I was told).

I'm taking one on April 2. I've never taken the beginner's course.

I suggest riders take one or two American Sign Language courses. My wife and I are both fluent and can hold conversations on the road. I also ride with a few Deaf riders and find communication with them much easier than my hearing riding buddies.

[BobFV1]

As we considered MSF training, the frustrating thing was that he already knew how to ride a motorcycle, but they don't let you take the ERC unless you've taken the Beginners course (or that's what I was told).

Then... the biggest decision... I put him in the front, instead of behind me. I was *much* more comfortable this way as I could keep an eye on him without taking my eye off the road. And he was completely comfortble being there. (It also kept me from passing on the double yellow too much, but that is another story....)



I had the same issue relative to MSF training, so I took my son to our local MSF school and paid for two hours of "one on one" skills training with an instructor. After that two hours, Nick had a lot of great skills training under his belt and the MSF school said "okay" to putting him in the ERC. We are going to a local track day together later this month.

I agree - when Nick started riding on the street - first on a scooter, then on a 250 Ninja, then on his own Suzuki RF650, and now on MY Ducati (when he finds the keys) - I was horrified, but I started riding when I was younger than he was so I couldn't say anything. We started riding together and I always keep him in formation behind me. As long as he is in the same position in my mirror I know he is safe and sound - seeing him there is as natural as glancing down and checking my speedo and tach. I think I will have him back there learning good riding skills from me until he is good and ready to be out front.

Safe riding. This is a great topic for us "old farts".

[username]

another option is to get flip face helmets and ride side by side and SCREAM at each other. this is a very bad option, and i do not recommend it.

one other signal to develop amongst the group is the "something in the road" one. i usually kick a foot out to the side of the dead armadillo (thats the most common thing in the road here) and give it as wide a berth as possible to allow those behind me to see it. a somewhat exagerrated (but safe) swerve will catch their attention too. humans are designed to detect side-to-side movement acutely, so any wiggle you can give the bike will draw attention to you.

i dont use the slow down signal. when i slow down, i tap the brakes. i want my hands on the grips when i'm slowing down. the bike does the signaling.

we usually discuss gas ahead of time, but if for some reason our tanks are out of sync, the person who needs gas pulls a chacifer and points at the tank.

if i was riding with more than three or four people, i'd get all medieval on the ride's ass and i'd plan/structure the stops more carefully, or i'd take charge. taking charge works best for a ride where the destination is not critical, and so detailed planning is hard to do. i just tell people, "i'll ride in front, i'll make all the decisions about which way to go, speeds, etc. i'll stop for gas every 100 miles or so and we can talk about making any changes then." i find that most people are happy to relax and just follow along in these situations. people like to be led.

encouraging everyone to whiz when you stop, whether they think they need to or not (run the faucet for them) is a good idea. in summer, making sure you see people drinking some water during stops is important.

if your group gets sorta big, bookend it with the experienced riders. put one in the lead, and one in the rear. then trust that if for whatever reason, the pack gets split, the rear guy can assume leadership and get people where they need to get.

[BradfordBenn]

A few practice rides will go a long way to getting things down. ALso one of the most important hand signals that me and my riding friends have come up with. Tapping the inside of your thigh when nature is calling.

[RTRandy]

With a large group of riders it's important to remember the ones in the back tend to get strung out from the front riders and have to constantly catch up using higher speeds. I've never been able to figure out why that happens while everyone is trying to maintain the same speed, but it's like a yo yo back there. Sometimes the front will be able to pass a slow moving truck with a dotted line and no traffic coming and by the time the rear is ready to pass that same truck, the road may change to a solid double line and no way to pass for miles. One good remedy for this is to have an agreement that as long as everyone is on the same route, the front can keep moving, however if the front riders come to a road change such as a turn onto a new road or highway, they have to wait at that point for the back of the group to catch up. This way no one has to try and go a 100 mph to catch up when seperated and worry about missing a turn.

An Autocom with a cell phone and or a Kenwood GMRS radio makes it super easy to tell the rider in front or two miles back that you're getting hungry or need gas or want to find a place to put a rain suit on. It's incredible how good it sounds in the helmet plus both hands stay on the bars at all times. Not cheap, but great to have.

[BradfordBenn]

Oh yeah, one of the other big things, talk ahead of time about routing and speed.

[BubbaZanetti]

i've found keeping it simple works best, attempting to remember a ton of singnals and gestures isn't worth it, cause you forget to use them. let the guy with the least range decide the fuel stops and chat at these stops, creating a "game plan" its all you really need to do. for our crew this past fall (duc 748, duc 750ss and my airhead) it was always the 748 needing gas first, about every 140 miles, so we'd usually go that distance, unless something came up, then the person who wanted something different would pull ahead and exit or turn or whatever, usually there was a good reason. this worked fine for us over 2 months of traveling...........

[sgborgstrom]

After many years of riding with my wife on her own bike I have to say investing in bike to bike communications was one of the the best decisions we made. No more circling campgrounds with arms waving while trying to pick a spot for the night and it made picking a lunch spot easier too. Having the ability to simply talk to one another really brought down the stress level.

Our first major tour was a few weeks after she learned to ride at an MSF course. I deliberately charted a course using as many fun looking backroads as I could, this kept the ride interesting and put all those new skills to good use without too much traffic around.

Good luck to both of you, sounds like some quality father/son time...

Steve

[Bob_M]

This forum is great. I appriciate the hard earned advice as well as the worthless but entertaining trivia. As our favorite "woman in chains" used to say "Its a good thing." :rocker