Battery Woes..........

[BubbaZanetti]

well, not really....

i got my new bike home a few weeks ago and after a few starts the battery was dead (i didn't ride the bike far enough to charge it) so i assumed it was the original battery from 99 since the bike only has 4000 miles on it. i bought a new battery (Panasonic) and after taking the old one out realized it was in fact a more recent Exide Gel battery. My question is this, should i let the Exide sit around dead (cause i'm assuming its still probably good) or should i bring it somewhere to get charged and then save it as a back up? i know i cant charge it with my current battery tender (which i just purchased w/the Panasonic), and i kinda dont want to re-install it and have to purchase a new tender (as well as taking the bike apart again)

so, leave it or chage it...............or, sell it! anyone interested????????

[lorazepam]

Bubba, the only gel battery in the world that needs a special battery tender is the BMW battery. You can charge the other one with the battery tender just fine. Leave it to BMW in their infinite wisdom to have a special gel battery that takes a special charger. I have charged my BMW gel battery once with a standard charger and it didnt hurt it at all.

[GlobalRider]

After taking the old one out realized it was in fact a more recent Exide Gel battery. My question is this, should i let the Exide sit around dead (cause i'm assuming its still probably good) or should i bring it somewhere to get charged and then save it as a back up?

I know i cant charge it with my current battery tender (which i just purchased w/the Panasonic), and i kinda dont want to re-install it and have to purchase a new tender (as well as taking the bike apart again)

Bubba,

One of the qualities of the gel cells is that they can be recovered from a discharged state better than most other types. So charge it up before it is too late.

You've been reading too many of the BMW scare tactics found on this and other forums. Remember, I was the first guy to ask the question whether our alternators were specially made for our gel cells. Answer: NO; they're the same. So who says you need some special charger? Look at your battery tender specs. If it cuts out at about 14.4 volts (and most do) before going to a float mode of about 13.2 volts, you are OK to use it. I use a $29 YUASA Hot Shot for both my Exide gel cells.

Do you have a DMM to measure voltages?

[BubbaZanetti]

thanks guys, i was pretty sure that the "special charger" stuff was myth, but wanted to make sure (too many "reputable" sources have claimed it as fact)

THANKS!!! :D

[screamin eagle]

thanks guys, i was pretty sure that the "special charger" stuff was myth, but wanted to make sure (too many "reputable" sources have claimed it as fact)

THANKS!!! :D


Not so fast Bubba. I really don't want to start a debate here but I want you to know the facts before you just accept what anyone says as being correct.

Some years ago I had a 93 Harley which had a lead acid bat. I had a battery tender for it. I bought a gel battery from my local HD dealer for the 93 HD. He told me I had to buy another charger made specifically for the gel bat. I did buy the charger. Some months later my bike cooked that battery while on a ride to and around Nova Scotia. The dealer would not warranty the battery because my bike's system was not meant for a gel battery and it overcharged it.

I am not debating anything here, I am only telling you the facts as I known them.

[GlobalRider]

Some months later my bike cooked that battery while on a ride to and around Nova Scotia.

You claim it was cooked while on tour. I would suspect the motorcycle's charging system or better yet, the voltage regulator. By "cooking", I take it you mean "overcharged"...no or very little battery acid left in it?.

[screamin eagle]

You claim it was cooked while on tour. I would suspect the motorcycle's charging system or better yet, the voltage regulator. By "cooking", I take it you mean "overcharged"...no or very little battery acid left in it?.

Global
Yes I mean over charged. It was not a lead acid battery. It was gel. When the battery was removed from the bike there were visable signs of leakage on both sides of the battery. I installed a new battery in Canada (lead acid) and upon my return home had the chargingsystem checked. The dealer replaced my voltage regulator saying that was the culprit. But he also said that my bike was not suited for a gel battery and that I should not use one because of over charging. I'm not sure what I believe. As I said they had me buy a new charger when I bought the gel because the one I had was for the acid battery. I went round and round with them because I felt that something should havebeen covered here. They sold me the gel battery in the first place. So all I am saying here is, two different manufacturers are telling us that we need special battery chargers for the gel battery and maybe they are correct, and further more that maybe certain bikes are not candidates for a gel battery unless the charging system is made for it. I really don't know. Just my .02 cents

[GlobalRider]

Global
But he also said that my bike was not suited for a gel battery and that I should not use one because of over charging. I'm not sure what I believe.

Usually voltage regulators are set to the low to mid 14s. I say usually, because there is always someone out there that'll have theirs set to the high 14s to low 15s and they do exist.

You can get voltage regulators that have a trim pot on them that you can adjust, but these are almost always aftermarket. I know they are available for BMWs.

This is what I believe. This ad campaign that BMW has going for their $special$ gel cell charger (and I'm not talking about that system they have on the new R1200 GS) is all pure BS. They are understandably covering their butt because there are some chargers out there with higher voltage cutoffs in the 15V range and even higher. So fine, don't buy those. Buy the ones that cut off at 14.4V and most of them do. All you have to do is look at the specs.

I even read the BMW Service Bulletin that is/was published here on this forum and I could shoot holes through it.

As for those charging algorithms that some chargers employ, well they may help, but the fact is the charging system on your motorcycle is very plain and simple and does not employ any fancy charging algorithim, in fact, it doesn't at all.

I use two chargers: a 12V, 1A manual charger along with a DMM to monitor my battery voltage during charging, and another, a YUASA Hot Shot 12V, 900 mA battery charger/maintainer which gets used with all of my lead acid and gel cell batteries now.

Either I don't know what I'm talking about, or I am damn lucky to get 8 full years out of my motorcycle batteries and almost 15 years out of my factory original car battery (its still going strong and starting the car at sub zero degree F temps).

Check out this very informative site. It lists both R airhead ignition modules (BM300) and voltage regulators as well as cross references to other manufacturers. It also lists mechanical and electrical specs for each device.
Transpo Internet Catalog (http://www.transpo.de)

Ooops, I forgot to list the YUASA Technical Manual (http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechMan.pdf), a battery manual for dummies...that means it is easy to understand.

[BubbaZanetti]

from what i can tell, there was no alteration to the alternator/voltage reg between 2002 (lead acid) and 2003 (first year gel) in bmw's, i would assume that the gel batteries are probably safe in our bikes. the battery tender seemed to do a fine job of recharging the gel, according to my multimeter, it stops at 14.4V

[bmwmick]

[QUOTE=screamin eagle]Global
Yes I mean over charged. It was not a lead acid battery. It was gel.

Screamin,
Here is a great place to learn a little about Lead Acid batteries:
http://batterytender.com/introduction_to_lead_acid_batteries.php/#1

[GlobalRider]

[QUOTE=screamin eagle]Global
Yes I mean over charged. It was not a lead acid battery. It was gel.

Mick, whose battery was overcharged? If you are referring to Screamin's, it happened on the bike while on tour and it was a voltage regulator problem. You can't blame the charger he used or the type of battery.

A lead acid battery and gel cell have the same 14.4 V cut offs. It is right in the Exide gel manual.

[bmwmick]

[QUOTE=Global Rider]Mick, whose battery was overcharged?

Alex, go back and read it again, I never said anyone's battery was
overcharged. I just posted a reference for types of batteries.
BTW, they are ALL Lead Acid batteries, just depends on how the
acid is retained in the cells. :)

[GlobalRider]

Alex, go back and read it again, I never said anyone's battery was
overcharged. I just posted a reference for types of batteries.
BTW, they are ALL Lead Acid batteries, just depends on how the
acid is retained in the cells. :)

Mick, I just did. You also quoted Screamin's quote "Yes, I mean over charged". He clearly stated that his HD was over charging his battery. It wasn't a battery type or charger issue.

I had a look at the Battery Tender link that you posted. Looks like 14.4V handles them all. As for plus/minus volts, as far as I am concerned, not a big deal. The factory "flooded" lead acid battery in my R100 GS was regularly charged to the upper 14s and lower 15s because all I had at the time was a manual 1A charger. It didn't do an once of harm. In fact, that might be why I got 8 full years, going onto the 9th, out of that battery. Besides, as the voltage of the battery rises, the charge current drops.

Yes, they are all lead acid batteries...I just refer to "flooded" as lead acid...the rest of them, I use their so called names: AGM, gel, etc.