Power - control?

[tommy]

i sent many of you a copy of this - i will send the rest of you a copy in case this thread gets removed - this i got from KABASA - have you ever rec. anything like this - this is from a person who wants to our President - i'm also filing a complaint with the MOA - this is totally uncalled for - is this far beyound a moderator - Hitler at his best - tommy
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As a former New Englander, I want to let you know that it's generally considered poor form to taunt the folks back east about their weather.

They know you live here. They know the weather is nice and they don't really care if you went riding today.

If you want to help them, go for a nice ride, stop, take some pictures of some cool stuff and put up a ride report. It's better for building friendship than taunting people.

Otherwise, folks are just going to set you on ignore.

Just my 2 cents.....

dave
__________________
Dave Swider
Marin County, CA
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Sled Dog Touring Team
Yankee Beemers
VFR800
R1100RS - pilfered from wife
R1200GS
R100CS

BMW MOA Web Technical Manager

[DarrylRi]

I don't see what your problem is, Tommy. Looks like some friendly advice to me. KBasa didn't threaten to do anything about your postings. A little bit of back and forth can be fun, but it gets pretty old, pretty quick.

[Chacifer]

1. Do not liken my friends to Hitler.

2. There is nothing out of line in Kbasa's message. He is giving you advice from his own experience, which you may take or leave; the choice is yours.

3. If you have a problem, that is for you to take up with Kbasa. He sent you a PM, which stands for "private message". Re-posting his private message here and forwarding it to several people is uncalled for.

[YB in IN]

I don't understand what you're bent so out of shape about there buddy. It was just a friendly suggestion from a guy whos been around this forum, ADVrider, and the IBMWR list for a long time. I don't think that any harm was meant in it.

[BMWBeauty]

It Doesn't Appear To Be An Issue Of Power Or Control To Me....
Just A Little "Suggestive" Riding Along With Some Friendly Advice...

[username]

since we're doing the full disclousre thing here, tommy, i think it's important that you post/acknowledge the reply to the PM that you sent me. i will post my reply in full so that everyone can see the feedback that you received from another member.

if i were to craft a similar response in light of this thread that you've created, i think my language would have been pretty harsh. youve crossed a few lines now, and if you are temporarily suspended, which i think is warranted, hopefully you'll setlle down a bit.

1. kbasa is one of the purest motorcycle and community enthusiasts i've ever met. from where i'm sitting he is exactly the kind of person who should hold an influential office in the MOA. your comments are nutty.

2. comparing people to hitler is really, really assanine. good gravy, listen to yourself man!

3. you need to develop a technique where you type a post, then go off and take a few deep breaths, maybe do some lunges, then come back and re-read it and see if it still seems like a good idea to post it.

here's what i sent you, in case you missed it:
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tommy - i don't disagree with dave. one tiny taunt now and then isnt a big deal, but you have to balance it with a meaningful contribution to the community. this forum strives for a high signal-to-noise ratio, so that when members log on and read it, they enrich the motorcycling portion of their lives. so dave's comments regarding taking photos and posting a ride report are well-intentioned. you live in one of the BEST parts of the USA, and if you'd share your rides with us, we'd be grateful. i've lived in the northeast too, and this is the time of year when people get cabin fever and everyone is going nuts waiting for spring. people can actually get really pissed off. so the nice thing to do is to share your world with them via photos and descriptions of the rides, not point out how cold or wet theirs is.

imagine a brand new member in wisconsin signs in. he's never read the forum before. he clicks on a thread and sees a fellow in california taunting people who have crappy weather. what is his reaction likely to be?

you shouldnt take dave's comments as a banishment or some sort of severe punishment. he is a really level-headed guy with a good heart and a long track record of commitment to the forum, the MOA, and riding. so when he wrote "just my two cents" at the end of his note, he meant it just that way, as advice. i think he wouldve used stronger language and given you some sort of warning if he thought you were really causing a huge problem.

each time you post, ask yourself, "is this post going to improve the community we are building on this forum?" if you get a maybe, or a yes, then post it. if you get a no, don't post it.

but do stick around and contribute. and do share photos of your rides with us.

i live in texas, and occasionally i make comments towards those poor yankees as well. reading dave's comments and writing this note to you has caused me to think about my own behavior as well. so thanks for the discussion!

ride safely,

lee
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[Rich]

Looks like sound advice to me. Dave helps run a great forum here, and does a wonderful job, as far as I am concerned. I think others would agree. I don't think you will find a lot of sympathy from those of us that have been around here for a while.

[bigfoot105]

This may not be the best place for this commentary but, here it is; Today most industries rely on e-mails for their primary form of inter-office communcations. As a middle manager in my company I can tell you that a large number of EMs sent/received can be interpeted to have a hostile intent. The main problem with e-mails is the personal touch has been removed from the equation along with any type of body language which, is a very important part of communication.

If a person is already in a defenssive posture, he will usually over react to the EM message. Leading to a negitive reponse or action and as in this case...Tommy 's reaction.

No matter where one choses to live, there is going to be drawbacks and advantages. I for one, who grew up in south Mississippi, (that's right I'm a born and true redneck) have chosen to move and live and work in Alaska by way of 4 years in NE Ohio. I don't mind hearing from people who want to brag or complain about how things are where they reside. The media keeps me somewhat informed on how things really are i.e. torrential rains in CA, an unexpected snowstorm in the NE, fires in the SW and FL and of course the humidity in the south.

The snow here in Alaska can be A-Hole deep to a giraffe, volcanoes venting within 70 mile from my house, heck, we even had 2 earthquakes larger than 5.0 last week centered less than 50 miles from Anchorage and I bet that it didn't even make the news in the lower 48.

So, if somebody gets offended by how somebody else describes there home area and what they are doing on specific day...God Help Us All!

Rodney King said it best. Quote "Can't we all just get along"

I don't know what all this has to do with anything but, I feel better now!

I thank this forum for allowing me a place to vent. :type

[Cliffy777]

lighten up tommy. hitler? hardly. i gotta tell you i was a little miffed at your shot at the rounders which is why i replied like i did. (did you read it?) it must be real tough to ride when it is 65 in the shade. i do not generally like pissing contests, but if you are going to start one you might want to research your material a little better and know what kind of a breeze you will be pissing into.
if you filed a complaint over his off-the-record reply, you are making a mountain out of a molehill. that was a very even tempered, nicely worded piece of advice. i do not always agree with kbasa on different issues, but he always presents his views in a nice manner. this would be really boring if we all agreed on everything, but it helps to have things said in a nice way.

[BubbaZanetti]

what did i say, one day and he's back............

[Chacifer]

what did i say, one day and he's back............

Exactly what I was thinking. :lol

[khn]

Tommy, the above replies reflect the admiration and respect that we have for Mr. Dave Swider, aka Kbasa. Not only is he level headed, he is a man that strives to foster communication between fellow motorcyclists.

And, he makes one heck of a MARTINI ! ! !

Now let's say ... I'm voting for Swider! :wave

[R100RS]

Friendly advice = Hitler????

Tommy, you have some issues that need to be worked out.

[roy]

imagine a brand new member in wisconsin signs in. he's never read the forum before. he clicks on a thread and sees a fellow in california taunting people who have crappy weather. what is his reaction likely to be?


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History:
As a fairly new Northern member, December 04, I would like to throw a couple of my thoughts out for discussion or repercussion. I bought my beemer October 9th so didn't get to ride it much yet which has lead to item three listed below.

Present:
1) I probably have not seen or read all of the posts that started this whole discussion. I have read a few about the beautiful weather in the South Vs the snow and Ice up north. I took them as friendly banter not I am going to kill that SOB. Us northerners think that snowball fighting is the national past time :D

2) I have never seen Kabasa write anything that I took as inflamatory or a Hitler like mentality. He has always come across as a very knowledgeable & helpful person.

3) I personally have had some very deep concerns about buying the beemer after reading some of the IBMWR tech pages about all of the service work required. Reading negative posts hasn't helped any either. I am sure that post buyers blues & PMS doesn't help any either.

Through all of this I have been attempting to keep an open mind while reading all the good posts. I.e. help I have this problem & their is always an answer. I myself have asked several questions and always received good advice.

4) I guess what I am trying to say is that it sounds like some feelings have been hurt and some fences need to be mended. Airing your "Dirty Laundry" for public opinion is not the way to cure this.

My suggestion is that if you have a problem with a person take it directly to that person. Don't display private messages as an attempt to boost your ego. The odds are that it will always do more damage than good.

Please don't let your pride be the fall of some thing as good as this MOA forum.

Respectfully submitted

[alien_hitchhiker]

I must say, this thread has made me stop & think; a little civility is indeed a good thing.

The bottom line ( which I will try to remind myself of from time-to-time) is that all of us on this forum share one over-riding bond; we are all riders & we are all on BMWs.

So boyz & girlz, what do you all say, how about a big group hug?

Don't be shy, come on now, one...two...three...HUG!!!!!!

[dancogan]

As a northerner who has been at work all day, watching it snow all day, and knowing that I probably won't get to ride this weekend because of it, let me give my $0.02 worth. Although Tommy's posts were "edgy" in my opinion, I figured it was his way of teasing or poking fun. I took no offense. The fact that someone else found it a bit more troubling and pointed that out in a PM just means someone else saw things differently. The fact that Tommy posted the PM publicly, and made a Hitler reference to boot, is the only truly offensive thing in this entire exchange.
Tommy, sorry if you find this offensive, but you seem to want to know what the consensus is on this whole matter.

[manicmechanic]

To echo some of the other folks, I thought Tommy was poking fun, in his own way, and I responded in kind. No blood, no foul. I figured someday we'd hang out at a rally, have a beer, and trade insults, all in fun. So where did we go wrong?

[kbasa]

Poor etiquette, Tommy.

Sorry you took some admittedly unsolicited advice the wrong way.

[BradfordBenn]

As a fellow moderator on the forum, I have talked with KBasa on various topics relating to the moderation of the forum, and also think that his advice was just that advice. If you notice any moderator could have easily killed this thread but the idea of a free, open, and polite discussion is important. If you look at lots of the threads going on, you can see that dissent is allowed but the aim is to keep the forum PG-13. If you want to see censorship, try posting something on the official BMW forums. Here the idea is communication and exchange of ideas, even if we disagree.

No Tommy, I do not think you were trying to be mean but just comical, kind of like us and the snowballs. However taking this private piece of advice and making it public is just poor form. Comparing a friend of mine to Hitler is more than just mean, it is hateful in my opinion. I can go on and on about all the reasons that is offensive, but I would get myself in trouble.

[DLilah]

If you notice any moderator could have easily killed this thread but the idea of a free, open, and polite discussion is important. If you look at lots of the threads going on, you can see that dissent is allowed but the aim is to keep the forum PG-13. If you want to see censorship, try posting something on the official BMW forums. Here the idea is communication and exchange of ideas, even if we disagree.

Being a moderator cannot be an easy task, and I think we all should thank them for their valuable contribution to keeping this forum a great place for all of us to share our interests. Great job, guys (and girls, I assume). Keep up the excellent work. :clap

[alien_hitchhiker]

I'm with D'Lilah. THANK YOU MODERATORS, wherever you may be. This is a great forum; excellent exchange of info & ideas, a great way to make contacts among the riding community, and a fun place to commit homicidal acts against father time. Every game needs a ref and every ref deserves respect for giving their time and for putting their butts out there.
Steve-O

[Hodag]

I'm upset I never got a PM telling me to lay off. what am I doing wrong?
Mark

[Grey Matter]

I'm upset I never got a PM telling me to lay off. what am I doing wrong?
Mark
No kidding, the only PM’s I get are the, “hey how’s it going let’s go riding” type. What's the deal?

In all seriousness, I think Dave was just trying to help you see yourself how others on the forum are seeing you. His private gesture was meant to be helpful not inflammatory. Personally I appreciate it when I am corrected in private not public.

The Hitler comment was a little over the top don’t you think. I mean the man murdered over 6 million people! All Dave did was try to help a brother out.:rolleyes

I, like many have taken you comments as just poking fun, albeit not my style. But hey everyone is different.

You may want tot try using a few smiles in your posts, for instance.

Option A:
Hey I heard is snowed 12 inches in the north east yesterday. I guess you will ride down to your mailboxes & report back to Cliffy like good little Rounder! It is 70 in California today, I guess it sucks to be you.

Option B:
Hey I heard it snowed 12 inches in the north east yesterday :stick , hang in there spring is on the way. Oh & don’t forget to log your mailbox run with the great El Dooky.:rocker

Unfortunately we can not discern you voice inflections or tone in written communications. You need to help us understand were you are coming from.

Personally I have taken to reading your posts in my mind as if you were the voice of Dale Gribble of King of the Hill fame.
:bottle

[BradfordBenn]

Personally I have taken to reading your posts in my mind as if you were the voice of Dale Gribble of King of the Hill fame.:bottle

I use Boomhauer. Dang :thumb

[James.A]

I'd like to recommend that all interested parties review the "Doghouse" to get a feel for what kind of discussion gets croaked. Some of my best satire resides there, particularly "Eternity....smoking or not?"

[magwa]

Not gonna send private messages to *anyone* known to take them public.

I'm not going to blow Swider.

Not going to pay attention.

[lorazepam]

Magwa,
With all the cool rides you have, (you still have that pickup dont you?) you have too much to do keeping them all looking good to mess with foolishness like this.

[magwa]

....still have some time!