Lane Splitting Debate

[jopars]

As a long time rider and past safety instructor, I know where I stand on this issue. One hopes the projected study or studies actually can demonstrate that it's more dangerous than remaining in traffic, before they go condemning it.

Lanesplitting Debate (http://www.sacbee.com/2010/11/14/3181549/semi-legal-motorcycle-lane-splitting.html)

JP

[Ken F]

The benefits I see from it are that motorists would become much more aware of looking for m/c's, after all it's been done in Europe for years and their numbers are not that high due to lane splitting. I would expect that there would be quite a few "sacrificial lambs" before awareness increases. Also, riding an air-cooled R-11RSL I'm unable to sit in traffic too long without overheating.

However, it would make me feel pretty goosy doing it in moving traffic. At traffic signals, it wouldn't bother me. You'd sure need to watch for the cowboy driving a dooley who opens his door to spit on the ground though!!

As with anything, or any group of people however, you are going to get the "idiots" who take advantage of the situation, and ruin it for everyone.

460

[marchyman]

However, it would make me feel pretty goosy doing it in moving traffic. At traffic signals, it wouldn't bother me. You'd sure need to watch for the cowboy driving a dooley who opens his door to spit on the ground though!!

Interesting... it's just that reason why I feel more comfortable in moving traffic; much less likelihood of an open door. Here in the SF Bay Area (where it is legal) folks are mostly used to lane sharing and while there are always some who will intentionally move over to block your progress there are many more who will move the other way to give you a bit more room.

[crazydrummerdude]

I just spent 3 months in California, and lane-split as much as possible.

Now back in Missouri, I miss it terribly.

[angysdad]

Lane splitting is a dangerous thing in the hands of an immature rider. When performed by a rider who can analyse the situation, as in...'is this REALLY a good idea'...I see no problem. It does cause some frustrations for cagers, but afterall, they are the ones causing the traffic, not motorcycles.
It's kind of awkward with a sidecar though! ;)

[Visian]

I just spent 3 months in California, and lane-split as much as possible.

Now back in Missouri, I miss it terribly.

i used to keep a bike in the Bay Area when i had an office there. it was very nice that the vast majority of cagers would not only accommodate lane sharing but would attempt to give you as much space as possible.

however, it was hard having two sets of habits.

if you lane share in georgia, you need to watch out for the redneck spitting chewing tobacco *on* you, not on the ground! :sick

lane sharing makes a lot of sense, but as mentioned above, it's the few idiots that push the envelope by doing it when traffic is moving that ruin it for everyone.

ian

[Rad]

I teach MSF with a retired CHP motor cop. He said that in all his years as a CHP he never rolled on an accident from a lane splitting bike and he rolled on many where a bike was rear ended when not lane splitting

Debate over!

[alabeemer]

Being from Alabama where splitting would get you shot or mashed in short order I have always been scared of it and swore I would never...ever try it. Well, they say you should never say never....while in the SF Bay area this summer with a group of five bikes...had we not split I am convinced we would still be there....today :laugh

But seriously I found it to be easy and most cagers were courteous and in fact gave extra room once they realized you were there. I found that with a little common sense on the rider's part mixed with some caution...it worked out well. I would do it again...out there....but NEVER in Alabama....did I just say never??? :laugh

[TomDac]

When traffic is completely stopped or crawling, either on the freeway or on surface streets, it's AWESOME to lanesplit, but when traffic is moving, I don't do it, partly because my bike is so massive (GSA) and partly because it's somewhat nerve racking.

I've seen young guys on sportbikes lane splitting at insane speeds while traffic is flowing. THAT is insane.

And when i'm lanesplitting in stopped traffic and there's another motorcyclist BEHIND me, lanesplitting, that's REALLY nerve racking!

[kantuckid]

I recall the first time I was driving a car in OK in the 60's and was passed on the right,while going at least the speedlimit(in an XKE in my 20's so probably going fast!) on a 2 lane by another car, then found it was legal-I wonder if thats still the case there or elsewhere? In Mexico in city traffic you are expected to lane split or you will get glares and honks! This is true even when you may think you'll get squashed!
I was on I-74 after a Nascar race @ Concord and the next day at that but the traffic was jammed up and after a bit I rode slowly on the shoulder for several miles to find two geezers blocking both lanes and traffic was backed up for miles, no exaggeration! Then it happens again in a few miles and the same problem so I shoulder again and move down the road to avoid overheating issues.
I was in Baton Rouge on I-10 , during rush hour 2 yrs ago and it was bogged down to flat stopped and I rode the shoulder slowly and was able to escape after several miles and a repeat in a bit. I felt vunerable to cagers thinking I'm doing something I shouldn't, but preferable to an overheat, so I'd do it again if I had to. I always go slowly and remain especially watchful and never do it if traffic is moving at all.:ear

[crazydrummerdude]

but NEVER in Alabama....did I just say never??? :laugh

I haven't done it in Missouri, but man, it's tempting!

Filtering at stop lights and splitting in rush hour.. what a time saver.

[Ken F]

Nathan, I've thought about doing it oftentimes in my truck when people on cellphones block both lanes @ 10 under! LOL

I really think the police should start giving tickets for not yielding the left lane to traffic.
I'll bet that would help traffic move much better after six months of giving out "Snail-Awards".

460

[Pauls1150]

Just in case somebody doesn't realize this: In most (if not all?) states, riding on the shoulder is blatantly illegal, unless you are an emergency vehicle or your vehicle is involved in an emergency.

Also be advised that most states (including CA) have "prima facie" laws - if you are moving faster than the "flow of traffic", that's enough cause for a LEO to detain you.

Laws about passing on the right vary... check your local listings. Sometimes they'll state it's ok if there are multiple parallel lanes moving in the same direction, sometimes it is not allowed - but there are a lot of slow folk in the #1 lane who are too ignorant to move over.

"Lane sharing" (as it is defined in California law) is something every rider should try - extensively - before ignorantly condemning it. It saves time, gas, motors, and nerves. Note that any vehicle with its engine running but the vehicle not rolling gets exactly Zero miles per gallon while still contributing to the traffic jam. Darn good reasons why it is already acceptable in Europe, but they take driving a lot more seriously than Americans do and they have a tougher time getting their license in the first place. Yes it takes a new set of skills (and cajones) and 200% situational awareness. I've had people move out of my way (modulating high beam) and I've had them purposely block me off (insert multiple colorful expletives here) or toss trash at me; this happens more in the eastern states than it does here (jealousy + simpleton sphincters). Yes there are fools on bikes, just as there are in cars (I frequently see the crotch-rocket guys wearing a full-coverage helmet and body armor, with short sleeves, shorts, and sneakers... Huh?). If a "faster" splitter is behind me, I have no qualms about letting him take point - let him wake up the cars ahead for me.

Several times, various motorcycle-rights organizations (ABATE, MRF, etc.) have tried to introduce legislation at the state levels to legalize this in more places - unfortunately, mommy and the nannycrats drive chauffeured 4-wheelers and don't appreciate our views or solutions. I seriously doubt that the author of the linked article has actually reviewed the written laws; most 4-wheeled Californians now accept that there WILL be bikes between the #1 and #2 lanes.

Once in a while I'll fall in behind a motor officer - there is just no way I can keep up with those guys!

[Holly]

Came over a rise on my way to the rally in TN to see 3 lanes of stopped traffic in front of me. I was doing the speed limit and didn't have ABS, so I learned to lane split in a hurry while I slowed down. Saved me from rear-ending one of the cages and from being rear-ended by the cage behind me.

[Teepke]

All I got to add is that I'm a metro-boston "traffic is completely stopped, and immediately gets back in lane once cars start moving again" lane splitter. Even then I pick & choose those moments judiciously...

I've had people hate on me with their horns and one particular a double s hole repeatedly close the lane down intentionally and then take issue (verbally) with my decision to use the space to his left that his closure opened up. That was fun. I fell behind him and waited him out... only to watch him do it a 2nd time to another splitter. Guy clearly needed to get... :whistle

-tp

[PGlaves]

I simply try to avoid places where lane splitting would be of any advantage.

[marchyman]

I simply try to avoid places where lane splitting would be of any advantage.

OK, then what do you feel about passing on the double yellow (when safe ;)) now that the single white line isn't even remembered by most. :whistle

[Anyname]

Yep, that sounds like the Massachusetts I remember. I remember the guys who had a traffic dispute going until one shot the other with a crossbow.

[jopars]

I simply try to avoid places where lane splitting would be of any advantage.

:laugh

Would that we could all be so lucky!

Yeah, I'd like to ride on uncrowded highways all the time, too...
...Wait a minute, I do. It's called Saskatchewan.

Did get down to California a couple of times this summer though, and ran into lots of instances of m/c lanesplitting (didn't have to do it myself, however). Since then I've been discussing it with a long time friend and past co-chief instructor of the CDN m/c safety program. He was the one who brought the article to my attention.

To me (and not speaking on behalf of any organization), to deny it is to negate one of a motorcyclist's main safety advantages; namely the ability to maneuver in more restrictive places. Having ridden in Europe (albeit quite a long time ago, though I suspect it hasn't changed),it seemed the only reason to be riding a m/c is to get out in front and get out of the way. In a legitimate debate about the motorcyclist's safety, I'm confident that I can produce an overwhelming argument in favor of the practice.

But in any legislation or enforcement of this issue, the decisions will not likely be made by m/c sympatico people, nor likely to be based on any valid supporting evidence. That a study has been commissioned to look into it, is heartening. It is disappointing to see it has already been cut considerably before it's launched, though. I'm looking forward to the study's findings, but not holding my breath.

JP

[PGlaves]

OK, then what do you feel about passing on the double yellow (when safe ;)) now that the single white line isn't even remembered by most. :whistle

Been known to do it in those states/counties that use the perpetual double yellow zones based on sight distances computed for overloaded log trucks going up hill passing old Winnebagos, or vice versa.

[crazydrummerdude]

OK, then what do you feel about passing on the double yellow (when safe ;)) now that the single white line isn't even remembered by most. :whistle

Some holier-than-thou's in The Perfect Line claim to have never crossed a solid line.. ever. They must not have been to any sort of park or mountain pass. As Paul eluded, Winnebago's be damned..

But, if it ever causes me to get a ticket, I won't be crying about it. I know what I shouldn't be doing (most of the time). :ha

[marchyman]

But, if it ever causes me to get a ticket, I won't be crying about it. I know what I shouldn't be doing (most of the time). :ha

My last moving violation was for 70 in a 55. The CHP who wrote the ticket also noted that I was on the wrong side of the double yellow at the time. What he did not do, however, was check the little box that said "infraction". Seems like he didn't think it was a big deal, either. :laugh

Needless to say I paid the fine and took traffic school. I didn't want to give him a chance to change his mind in court!

And I think that all of California has double yellows "based on sight distances computed for overloaded log trucks going up hill passing old Winnebagos". I always thought it was a federal standard. :dunno

[SIBUD]

Just another tool in the tool box where it is legal.

[kantuckid]

What is legal and that which flat out makes sense are not always the same. We have zero red lights here in my county and it sure isn't Saskatchewan! What we do have is twisty 2 lanes marked with double yellow in some straightaways and some curves(and the pennant shaped "No Passing" signs); the original guy that decided when to start and stop the paint stripe machine was obviously an idiot! Hills and log trucks don't seem to figure into the equation so much as no logic at all for maybe 1/4th of the pass/nopass zones.
Lane sitting on slabs, mentioned above, is now illegal in KY(when we see this, the inside joke is, that they must be from Ohio-& it seems to be true for some reason) and no one seems to enforce or avoid the violation. Not this thread but I've got to say it; on a recent trip to Lex,KY I watched 3 blatant,not sort of, red light runners and that seems to be the norm. It has caused us to absolutely clear the intersection prior to moving in. Bikes beware the times have changed! Texting, now illegal has not abated either! Now back to lane splitting-I'll do when I have to to keep my bike from overheating vs. sitting on the side of the road on that shoulder, vulnerable to some idiot zooming along.
Yesterday we were on a sorta freeway-ala, eastern KY style, called the Mountain Parkway. It is 2 lane/4 lane, & mostly no side traffic. They were grinding the shoulder in bad spots and repaving. The state hwy guy with a radio had traffic backed up into a blind curve(behind us!) and there were ~ 25 cars in front of us. There was a passing lane on my left and a shoulder on my right.and oncoming traffic streaming by in the oncoming lane. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Sit there-passing lane-or shoulder and advance?

[E_Page]

Like others from CA have said, there are a few car/truck drivers who will try to close the gap on you, but most are courteous and widen it a little to let a bike by.

My daily commute takes me along about 40 miles of expressway and 15 of small town and country road. Of the highway driving, about half of it is in urban area prone to stop-n-go or slow-n-go traffic during the normal commute hours.

I split lanes in these situations regularly. I ride an RT, so it isn't small. But so do the CHP motor officers, and those guys split lanes at full highway speeds. I will normally do so when traffic is moving 30 or less, but occasionally when I can see a big gap in traffic ahead, and a couple of knuckleheads otherwise holding up traffic - slow folks in the fast lanes.

The ability to split has allowed me to get out of situations where I'm being unduly crowded from behind. One needs to be vigilant and have full control of the bike at all times. Do it with knowledge of the potential hazards, and it's no less safe to me or other motorists than is keeping a place in traffic, tucked between tightly packed cars and at times less visible than when between lanes.

As in any other traffic situation, proceed with caution.

[brewmeister]

I have never lane split before when I was in California this past summer,it scares the crap out of me. I like to keep a "bubble" around me.:nono

[Visian]

I really think the police should start giving tickets for not yielding the left lane to traffic.

i believe that you could pay off the national debt with just this infraction alone! :nod

ian

[Visian]

I have never lane split before when I was in California this past summer,it scares the crap out of me. I like to keep a "bubble" around me.:nono

whatever you do, don't go ride in mexico.

there, other drivers only give you as much space as you need and feel no compunction about driving *right* up next to you.

this is particularly true in the cities, but you can get quite a surprise in the countryside, too.

ian

[Anyname]

When I commuted into Massachusetts on route 3, I used to lane split every time the collective mass of cages decided to hold an unscheduled brake testing event. I wasn't trying to pass cars, I was just looking for a place to hide. It was not unusual to look back and see the car that had been behind me about 1/2 of a motorcycle length behind the car I had been following.

I commuted on Rt 3 for close to 20 years and almost every day traffic would come to a screeching halt for no discernible reason. Since I used to see the same cars day after day, I began to suspect that there were a couple of select morons who did the same stupid maneuver everyday and triggered a 10 mile traffic backup.

I would have liked to lane split to pass cars, but drivers in Eastern Mass. are highly proprietary and competitive about their place in line. At that time, the use of turn indicators was nearly unknown since signaling for a lane change would invariably cause a car in the other lane to accelerate and block your lane change.

[kantuckid]

I have never lane split before when I was in California this past summer,it scares the crap out of me. I like to keep a "bubble" around me.:nono
California is scary period! Too many people and too many cars!:brow
And don't take this as a slap in the face,just an observation...

[marchyman]

California is scary period! Too many people and too many cars!:brow
And don't take this as a slap in the face,just an observation...

Get out of the Bay Area or So Cal and it is mostly empty.

http://snafu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/MOA/p-20100416-1245-1589/1098262694_BbRRR-XL.jpg

[GrafikFeat]

I really think the police should start giving tickets for not yielding the left lane to traffic.

Number one problem here in Seattle also. Purely passive/aggressive behavior.
When you do attempt to go around them on the right the person in that lane speeds up.
Or the left laner speeds up too. More than a few times I've been boxed in.

Here is where I lane split at speed between them usually to their astonishment one handed w/ the left hand raised and a finger extended.

A close second is cellphones.

[gr8ridn2]

Get out of the Bay Area or So Cal and it is mostly empty.

http://snafu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/MOA/p-20100416-1245-1589/1098262694_BbRRR-XL.jpg

Hey, that's my backyard. Now I can expect more traffic, thanks:eek:eek

[kbasa]

When traffic is completely stopped or crawling, either on the freeway or on surface streets, it's AWESOME to lanesplit, but when traffic is moving, I don't do it, partly because my bike is so massive (GSA) and partly because it's somewhat nerve racking.

I've seen young guys on sportbikes lane splitting at insane speeds while traffic is flowing. THAT is insane.

And when i'm lanesplitting in stopped traffic and there's another motorcyclist BEHIND me, lanesplitting, that's REALLY nerve racking!

If I get caught while lanesplitting, I always pull in and let them by. I expect the same.

[kbasa]

Get out of the Bay Area or So Cal and it is mostly empty.

http://snafu.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/MOA/p-20100416-1245-1589/1098262694_BbRRR-XL.jpg

No kidding. When people come to visit from back east and we go riding, they're always amazed at how rural most of CA is. They think it's all like LA.

[criminaldesign]

I took advantage of the lane splitting for the brief time I spent in CA. People seemed to leave adequate room or move over.

I couldn't imagine putting up with that day in and day out.

[GrafikFeat]

No kidding. When people come to visit from back east and we go riding, they're always amazed at how rural most of CA is. They think it's all like LA.

I used to hear that about the Adirondacks in NY.
Or... "I'm from NY." The reply: "The City?"

[kantuckid]

FWIW, & just so I don't get placed on the ignorant list, I'll say that I have traveled much of CA and 2 of my 3 sons lived there briefly, also a cousin & family near S.Jose. Much of the state is a beautiful place with many natural wonders, roads and great people too! My student dentist is from Daly City.My cousin & his family live near S.Jose for many years.
However , every time I'm there I marvel @ the $$$ & the ### of people, compared to what I'm used too! I just googled the pop. of CA & stands @ over 37 million. Kern County is 870,000 which is 174 times the population of my county, which is very rural. Even some of the "quaint" places in CA seem pretty busy to me. Frame of reference is relative here.
Back to the thread; when I lane split it's a release from "traffic jail" or urban gridlock, if you will, for me. I'll be very careful when I do it but worth the risk. My version of lane splitting doesn't include the "sport bike lane weaves" I see near most high density urban hwys! Usually some kid with shorts & tennies, sometimes equipped with someones daughter on the back...:dunno

[ragtoplvr]

When I first started riding in St Louis about 82 lane splitting was common. There were fewer motorcycles them but it was great for traffic. I never went more than maybe 10 MPH in stopped traffic though. Filtering was not common, and lane splitting traffic that is moving more the 10 or 20 MPH was rare. There were few jerks, very few, but society has changed, not nice anymore.

When i started riding again, I was surprised to find it is not done any more. Not an issue here in Joplin, but on the road, there are occasional jams.


Rod

[Terry Karney]

I teach MSF with a retired CHP motor cop. He said that in all his years as a CHP he never rolled on an accident from a lane splitting bike and he rolled on many where a bike was rear ended when not lane splitting

Debate over!



I'm a Calif. rider too, and I split, in very slow traffic, and at lights.

But I know of at least one accident where someone splitting t-boned a sudden lane changer in slow traffic.

So it does happen. What (IIRC David Hough) has to say on it is that, where the drivers of cars expect it, it's safe. Where they don't, it's not.

And it has to be done with care, and caution.

I will miss the option when I move to New Jersey.

[mototraveler]

:nodI have ridden many wonderful miles in CA and when the traffic bogs down it is a real blessing to be able to split lanes. I don't always do it as I travel a lot and it is much more difficult with saddlebags.

CA riders straighten me out if I am wrong, but aren't there some (possibly unwritten) rules about lane splitting like: only when traffic is 35 mph or under, don't exceed the prevailing traffic's speed by more than 15 or 20 mph (or maybe less), split between the left or fast lane and the lane to it's immediate right (on multilane roads). I'm sure there are more, can anyone expand on this?

I also always watch for cars that might be squeezing the space between lanes (those that may either be possessive about the space or ignorant of lane splitting) and any cars with out-of-state plates.

Karen

[marchyman]

CA riders straighten me out if I am wrong, but aren't there some (possibly unwritten) rules about lane splitting like: only when traffic is 35 mph or under, don't exceed the prevailing traffic's speed by more than 15 or 20 mph (or maybe less), split between the left or fast lane and the lane to it's immediate right (on multilane roads). I'm sure there are more, can anyone expand on this?

There are guidelines, but ask three cops what they are and you'll get three different answers. If they don't like what you are doing they can always cite you for reckless riding or, if you weren't reckless they can usually cite you for one (or both) of these:

22107. No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.

22108. Any signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given continuously during the last 100 feet traveled by the vehicle before turning.


assuming you weren't 100% in one lane 100% of the time.

[rocketman]

I used to (mostly) filter or sometimes split lanes in DC when working as a MC messenger since getting to the head of the line saved me time (and therefore made me more money) and did split lanes during rush hour and never really got all that "comfortable" with it. Riding in traffic for 8-10 hours a day was wearing enough, it just added to the stress. Course now that was a bit different than just doing it for an hour or so commute. Luckily back then MC cops pretty much left us MC messengers be, guess they figured the job was hard enough why add to the "misery" and knew it was a "time was money" thing as well. Now I just avoid situations that would require it and if caught head for the shoulder when possible, even though its not legal.

I do think its one of those areas where people can get pretty heated/adamant about one side or other and when folks start throwing out insulting/derogatory terms or names for others views, other drivers/legislators etc, that pretty much does it for me, anything they may have to say on the subject becomes moot, whether or not their arguments are reasonable.

RM

[marchyman]

Now I just avoid situations that would require it and if caught head for the shoulder when possible, even though its not legal.

In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

[rocketman]

In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

Well that could well be true, as I said I mostly aviod having be in traffic that may trap me in stop and go, I know everyone is not so lucky as to be able to make such a choice as communting routes and such. I simply don't apply for jobs that require rush hour jams anymore or travel the thruways during those times. So its a rare day (like maybe 5 years ago being the last time!) I get jambed up and if I can't make up to nearest exit on the shoulder, I just pull off for a while.


RM

[Visian]

In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

yeah, and i remember riding out your way and seeing the man parked on his bike about every quarter mile during rush hour. just to make sure you see them and don't try to pull a fast one.

do they still do that?

[marchyman]

yeah, and i remember riding out your way and seeing the man parked on his bike about every quarter mile during rush hour. just to make sure you see them and don't try to pull a fast one.

do they still do that?

I'm a retired old fart. What's rush hour? :deal

[kantuckid]

From one old fart to another : your not only retired, you have forgotten way too much stuff to be showing up here without causing yourself embarrasment!:nono It might be wise to just watch these threads from a distance-not that I plan to do the same.:blush Uh, what was it you were saying?
BTW, I managed to live in several places/states over my working years & I'm happy to say that NOWHERE! did I have to deal with such a thing as"rush hour".

[pffog]

I used to hear that about the Adirondacks in NY.
Or... "I'm from NY." The reply: "The City?"

Or western NY, see my sub-signature. I usually point out that there are 6 entire states, parts of Canada and even Washington DC that are closer then my humble abode.

[mototraveler]

From one old fart to another : your not only retired, you have forgotten way too much stuff to be showing up here without causing yourself embarrasment!:nono It might be wise to just watch these threads from a distance-not that I plan to do the same.:blush Uh, what was it you were saying?
BTW, I managed to live in several places/states over my working years & I'm happy to say that NOWHERE! did I have to deal with such a thing as"rush hour".

What?!:eek No RUSH HOUR?! How lucky can you get. The Seattle area is one of the worst. It never ends. The only lull is between 10:00am-11:00am, 2:00-2:30pm and 7:00pm-4:30am. They really need to wake up here and promote the use of motorcycle, provide motorcycle only parking (I think the normal day parking runs between $20&$30/day) and let us split lanes so we can "filter" through traffic.

[DarrylRi]

What?!:eek No RUSH HOUR?! How lucky can you get. The Seattle area is one of the worst. It never ends. The only lull is between 10:00am-11:00am, 2:00-2:30pm and 7:00pm-4:30am. They really need to wake up here and promote the use of motorcycle, provide motorcycle only parking (I think the normal day parking runs between $20&$30/day) and let us split lanes so we can "filter" through traffic.

And how about all those passive-aggressive drivers up there? It's said that if ever 4 cars in the Puget Sound arrive at a 4-way stop, at exactly the same moment, all of Seattle will grind to a halt.

When we decided to move back to California a dozen years ago, I told my wife I was looking forward to the drivers in California.

H: "You think they're better than in Washington?"

D: "No, not a bit; in fact, they're probably worse."

H: "So why do you like them better?"

D: "Because they are actually trying to get somewhere!"

[mototraveler]

And how about all those passive-aggressive drivers up there? It's said that if ever 4 cars in the Puget Sound arrive at a 4-way stop, at exactly the same moment, all of Seattle will grind to a halt.

When we decided to move back to California a dozen years ago, I told my wife I was looking forward to the drivers in California.

H: "You think they're better than in Washington?"

D: "No, not a bit; in fact, they're probably worse."

H: "So why do you like them better?"

D: "Because they are actually trying to get somewhere!"

Hey, hi Darryl! Long time, no see. Things have not improved here since you left.

I DO think the drivers in CA are better than Washington, in general... You're much more likely to have a cage driver pull over for you (as a motorcyclist) in CA and they're more aware of what's going on around them.

I think WA drivers roll around in they're little cocoons only thinking about themselves or their telephone. They are selfish and believe only they own the road they are on. Most have a serious case of "entitlement" issues and think they should be the only ones on the road instead of thinking what they can do to help the traffic. I have seen people cut off others by driving down the lane separator between 2 lanes, just because they don't want to get passed, when they're in a jam.
:blush
There are just too few good drivers here that are not either totally selfish with an attitude or way too courteous (see above quote). We need more in between!

[DarrylRi]

Hey, hi Darryl! Long time, no see. Things have not improved here since you left.

Howdy, Karen! Good luck on your new venture!

I DO think the drivers in CA are better than Washington, in general... You're much more likely to have a cage driver pull over for you (as a motorcyclist) in CA and they're more aware of what's going on around them.

Haven't spent a lot of time down here, have you? :)

A week ago or so I literally watched a rear end collision in my freeway lane, about 3 cars back. The traffic in front of me slowed abruptly; I was on my 4-ways immediately and had an eye in the mirror, because even though the guy behind me was slowing down, I could see trouble further back. I was ready to dive between the cars, but it only involved the hitter and the hittee. You really have to drive for everyone around you, down here.

[rocketman]

Hey, hi Darryl! Long time, no see. Things have not improved here since you left.

I DO think the drivers in CA are better than Washington, in general... You're much more likely to have a cage driver pull over for you (as a motorcyclist) in CA and they're more aware of what's going on around them.
(understand this is a general observation not meant as anything to be taken as Black&White and that there many factors involved beyond this still, speaking in General terms....)

I think WA drivers roll around in they're little cocoons only thinking about themselves or their telephone. They are selfish and believe only they own the road they are on. Most have a serious case of "entitlement" issues and think they should be the only ones on the road instead of thinking what they can do to help the traffic. I have seen people cut off others by driving down the lane separator between 2 lanes, just because they don't want to get passed, when they're in a jam.
:blush
There are just too few good drivers here that are not either totally selfish with an attitude or way too courteous (see above quote). We need more in between!

Actually I think what we [often] perceive as differing skill levels is more about stress level.. here is something I wrote up after my little trip from DC to Western Mass last week....
(Understand this is just a general observation and I know there are many factors involved, but reducing it for arguments sake to just a comparison of skill or environment factors, I think environment may well play a larger role overall)

On a recent trip (by car) to see my Son in western Ma. I was struck by what I (at first) perceived to be a greater level of skill and more courteous driving habits of the motoring public as I headed north. Zipping along the New Jersey turnpike at 70-75, cars by and large stayed to the right except to pass, used their blinkers when changing lanes, maintained appropriate distances as the weather changed from rain to snow and seemed to understand the process of merging into traffic from the access points. After passing thru the mess around upper NJ west of NYC things once again seemed to indicate a similar skill curtsey level exhibited by the vast majority of drivers even given the deteriorating weather conditions as I once more found myself on less crowed condition along the NY thruway and then along the Mass turnpike heading toward Pittsfield Ma.

Same thing on the way back home several days later on a non weekday rush (Saturday). However for the 2 hours spent traveling the freeways around NYC in upper NJ I saw the same sorts of poor driving exhibited by many in and around the DC beltway and suburbia in general. The more so on the way up as I was passing thru on a Thursday rush hour and coming back on a non-rush hour Saturday mid-day…
Interesting

After thinking about this my conclusion is that our perception of the skill levels as well as actual courteousness of the driving public in any area has more to do with the given driving environment than any actual difference in skill level per se. I. E. when in a more rural or less crowed and therefore less stressful driving environment with fewer cars, more constant forward motion (i.e. the ability to maintain a more constant speed) fewer intersections or traffic congestion in general and where going anywhere involves greater distances where travel times are measured in hours rather than minutes or half-hours (such as urban settings) tend to result in less stressful situations and as one relaxes one is more inclined to drive with greater respect for others sharing the road. this then leads to both our own perception of others skills as well as having a direct impact on actual driving habits by both us and everyone else. I noticed this same thing when out west driving from Phoenix to Sedona and then up to the Grand Canyon. Jeanne pointed out at some point along the trip how there were very few folks on their cell phone once out of the city. I thought about for a bit then started checking for service at various intervals, as I suspected there was No cell service so not much point in using a phone. As we headed back into the city on our return the level of phone use quickly rose to levels I see around DC. And again once out of the city drivers seemed to be “better” but I suspect it had more to do with a reaction to the reduced stress of the less crowed open road.

Anyway, just a general observation but I think it really is more a matter of environment than skill set for any given location.

RM

[Pauls1150]

Visian - yeah, they still do that. Maybe not every quarter-mile, but they are there. More likely, they will be behind the bush in the small island between the exit ramp and on-ramp; that way they can chase you in either direction. We do have idjits who think that it's ok to "just use it for a couple of feet" to get off the freeway. :bolt

[GlobalRider]

Lane splitting? Depends where!

At highway speeds, I say no, because there is no need for it. What there is a need for are drivers with some gray matter between the ears, which means, if you are not passing at a positive rate, get the eff back over into the cruising lane and out of the passing lane. This seems to be one hell of a tough concept for your average driver to figure out on this continent.

In gridlock due to a high volume of traffic or due to an accident ahead, at speeds less than 15 MPH, why not. I've done so countless times while driving in Europe. In fact, the cars over there "part" for you; something you'd never see here simply because drivers over here get miffed if anyone can get ahead of them.

Rant on the dismal state of drivers on this continent now over. :laugh

[DarrylRi]

Lane splitting? Depends where!

At highway speeds, I say no, because there is no need for it. What there is a need for are drivers with some gray matter between the ears, which means, if you are not passing at a positive rate, get the eff back over into the cruising lane and out of the passing lane. This seems to be one hell of a tough concept for your average driver to figure out on this continent.

That's because it isn't the law here, and it is over there. For example, the signs in California usually read "Slower Traffic Keep Right". Who you callin' slow??!

When my German friend came to understand that there was no requirement for "lane discipline", he said he wished he could pass on the right back home. I told him he'd come to hate it if it were so.

But your point about Americans having a chip on their shoulder about being passed is right on.

[GlobalRider]

That's because it isn't the law here, and it is over there. For example, the signs in California usually read "Slower Traffic Keep Right". Who you callin' slow??!

Well if I'm on their butt, then they're slow...so they should move the eff over instead of driving side by side.

Not surprising, I have coworkers who told me if they're doing the speed limit, they'll be damned if they are going to move over. The point he is missing is it isn't his right to enforce the law.



When my German friend came to understand that there was no requirement for "lane discipline", he said he wished he could pass on the right back home. I told him he'd come to hate it if it were so.

But there is hardly ever a need to have to pass on the right.

Some of them just get impatient; my German friend does. If the highways are at capacity, of course you're going to find drivers in the passing lane; all lanes will be packed.

What gets me are the LKW drivers passing each other at a 1/2 KPH speed differential as they are blocking both lanes of the autobahn....like after ten hours they would be more than a couple of kms apart...wow! I've given them the finger at times...and so would have a lot of other drivers, if it were legal.



But your point about Americans having a chip on their shoulder about being passed is right on.

When I said "on this continent", that included Canadians. F...are drivers ever dense here.

[mototraveler]

I believe here in Washington it IS a law to stay out of the "fast" lane unless you are passing traffic. The cops must find it too much harder to enforce than the speed laws because they choose not to enforce it.

If the traffic laws that are already on the books were all enforced equally, not just the ones that make easy money, we might have a better traffic system.

I much prefer the signs saying "Keep right except to pass".

On many occasions while splitting lanes in traffic on the SoCal freeway system, the cars have "split" for me and other riders. The idiot who is still in the center of his lane and not looking in his mirrors is very likely to be from out of state.

If drivers would think in terms of enabling ALL the traffic instead of having a selfish entitlement attitude, we'd all be better off.

[GlobalRider]

I much prefer the signs saying "Keep right except to pass".

I've seen those. Amazingly, some driver's fail to understand simple English.

[Fourcats]

From the article I got that "Foon Rhee" is "confused AND scared" while in traffic where lane splitting in legal. So take BART {BayAreaRapidTransit}.
Lane splitting got me to work a lot of years in SoCal
It is a skill all riders should have in thier "bag of tricks", better than getting rear ended by the "confused & scared".

[lakemaker]

I've done it... and lane splitting can be done safely... I stay at about 20 mph faster than moving traffic and once the traffic reaches 50 or more I get back in the lane. Those bikers who move between traffic at 50 mph or more than the surrounding vehicles are looking to die.

The "Slower Traffic Keep Right" rule only applies to "limited access highways"... that means freeways here in California. A large 6 lane road does not have that requirement and you will not find that sign on those roads.

Be safe.

[pmdave]

:nodI have ridden many wonderful miles in CA and when the traffic bogs down it is a real blessing to be able to split lanes. I don't always do it as I travel a lot and it is much more difficult with saddlebags.

CA riders straighten me out if I am wrong, but aren't there some (possibly unwritten) rules about lane splitting like: only when traffic is 35 mph or under, don't exceed the prevailing traffic's speed by more than 15 or 20 mph (or maybe less), split between the left or fast lane and the lane to it's immediate right (on multilane roads). I'm sure there are more, can anyone expand on this?

Karen

Karen, a few years ago I stopped at a CHP office to inquire about this . They mentioned that there aren't any laws that specifically address "lane splitting", "lane sharing", "white lining", etc. Each individual officer has the authority to make a decision about whether he (or she) thinks you're doing something unsafe or illegal. They have a whole toolbox of laws to hit you with. For instance, if you tick someone's mirror going by, they could ticket you for "usafe lane change" or whatever.

The CHP LEO who drove a car said he felt that lane splitting was dangerous under any circumstances. The CHP LEO at the adjacent desk--who rides a bike--said he thought splitting was safe, although he personally wouldn't split at more than about 40 mph faster than traffic.

I offered some suggestions on splitting etiquette on Proficient Motorcycling second edition.

pmdave:type

[rocketman]

From the Ca gov highway patrol site

Q:"Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?"
A: "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner."

the motorcycle drivers manual says its unsafe but not illeagal but that's about all and the actual law statue the last time I looked only addressed "Lane Sharing" (but that may have changed if one goes by the following info, which while not the actual code but rather the Ca Gov. sites synopsis...see below

and from the same site but different area...

http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/hdbk/shr_slow_veh.htm

"Motorcycles may travel faster than traffic during congested road conditions and can legally travel in the unused space between two lines of moving or stationary vehicles, which is commonly called "lane splitting." "

but also state
" -Allow the motorcycle a full lane width. Although it is not illegal to share lanes with motorcycles, it is unsafe.
-Never try to pass a motorcycle in the same lane you are sharing with the motorcycle. "

So it seems it is considered leagal although I note the stipulation "during congested road conditions"

and I would imagine that like anything pertaining to driving, the officer most likely has the discretion of ticketing someone doing so in what they considered an unsafe manner.

if it were to come up in VA, I doubt I vote for it assuming I could, and probably would not do it, but then I'm just not in a big rush these days..
RM

[samthg]

As one of these guys that has to commute daily in the traffic, to and from work, I don't split lanes. Riding the bike to work is just not in the mix for me. Have I split lanes? Yes, ...it's not for me. But there has been times when nothing is moving, so I crawl thru. When this has happened I have found myself moving over for other bikes.

My morning commute in the cage starts by listening to the traffic reports on the radio, and almost every morning I will hear of "a bike down" in the carpool lane somewhere. I see the bikes out in the carpool lane all the time, and many of them are haulin' arse. Their personal choice I guess, it's just not for me.

That being said, it is nice to have the ability to crawl through the traffic if needed.

[-CRASH-]

I commute on my bike every day. I probably have more miles splitting lanes in my life than some "bikers" have riding period. The key is to learn to read the traffic - head movements, watch for the illegal cell phone users, watch for kids in the back seats of cars, soccer moms (sorry to be so un PC), erratic movements, and so on. And a few set rules - only in straighter sections, never split past a semi or a bus ... they are too squirrely. Saying that, I broke my own rules about a month ago and lost a saddle bag ... my fault entirely (and it was not on a straight stretch, why I thought "this is fine" is beyond me when I immediately followed the thought with "I should not do this"). But ... in areas where the road is relatively straight, good visibility, and for me, traffic no more than about 35mph and I will move in between cars at about 10 to 15 mph faster (a CHP said he would do it no more than 40 mph faster? I hope that was a mistype and what was meant was when traffic is no more than 40 mph). It is the squids that split traffic when it is already moving 70 and they run at 90 that gives the practice a bad name. During commute times, the cages expect it and all but a few of the most rude and ignorant of drivers make room for you.

Oh, a good set of lighting helps a lot. I run all my lights and high beams in the day time and I have been told it makes me WAY more visible and it twinkles in rear view mirrors which catches cagers attention.

[scooterboy]

Living in California, I lane split all the time. I always wait untill two cars are next to each other so they can't change lanes on me. I also usually go just a couple of mph faster than the flow of traffic to keep idiots from rear-ending me.

[AKsuited]

In California I've found that the CHP especially are very protective of the shoulder. Their attitude is that it belongs to them and you should stay out. I'm sure that not all are that way, but there are enough that riding there for non-emergency reasons is asking for a citation.

Shoulders also have more roofing nails laying around and I avoid it for that reason.

Harry

[RODNEY.ANDERSON@COX.NET]

For many years I said there was no place I needed to be badly enough that I would split lanes, even though I saw it done almost daily here in SoCal.

Since we moved back here in '04 I've gotten to the point where I will do it occasionally, but only when the traffic is moving very slowly. If I have to ride faster than 25 mph to split lanes I'll move back into the lane and stay with the traffic. Since I bought the BMW with the wide saddle bags I find fewer times when I'm willing to do it.

As many others have said, you really need to learn to read the traffic and determine what people are going to do in front of you. If you can do that then the practice is fairly safe and much better than being rear ended by someone not paying attention.

[Solar]

I moved to Texas a few years ago and got here just in time for a vote to permit motorcyclists to lane-split; it didn't pass. Apparently, the way the law was written would have only allowed cyclists wearing helmets to lane-split. So, as you can imagine, there was a large lobby group (non helmet wearers) which crushed the whole process. I received this information from 2 separate motorcycle shops. If this is incorrect, please let me know.

Coming from California, I was unhappy with the results. Strangely, even as a non helmet wearer, I would have supported it because at the end of the day, I bet most police officers would have turned a blind eye (excluding those with obnoxiously loud exhausts).

Now, over the past few weeks, I've noticed more and more cyclists land-splitting at stop lights or when traffic is completely stopped (San Antonio area). Thankfully, they have split in a respectful manner. I'm wondering if we're starting to see a trend? Time will tell.

[scooterboy]

I recently got back from my first trip to the East Coast on a motorcycle. Overall it was a very good experience that I want to do again. Hearing that lane splitting was unlawfull there, I was determined to adhere to the local law. Arriving at the George Washington Bridge from Newark, NJ, on a Sunday afternoon, everything came to a standstill. I thought it would be a good time to cross the bridge, but apperantly not. We would sit for a few minutes and move up a half carlength. After pulling over twice to cool down my ride, and 1 hour 15 minutes later,:banghead I said to heck with their laws, and split the lanes to the toll booth and was on my way. :whistle A few days later near Concord, New Hampshire I ran upon another traffic jam. This time I just picked my way between the cagers for about four miles when I came upon an auto accident, worked my way to the one open lane and was on my way.:dance Is lane spliting dangerous? Sure, if not done properly, but so is riding a motorcycle, mountain or rock climbing, skydiving, and most anything else we do to amuse ourselves. I wouldn't think of riding a bicycle on a two-lane mountaine road, but a lot of people seem to thrive on it. A dangerous activity seems to be based on one's personal experience!

[JDOCKERY132445]

I live in NC and ride on the shoulder and lane split any time traffic comes to a stop. Yes, I know it is illegal; that is why I pay an attorney to handle these pesky tickets. BTW, I have NEVER gotten a ticket on my motorcycle [over 1,000,000 miles]. If I do, I figure it is the price of doing what makes sense. The law and what makes sense are often at odds.

[rocketman]

I had someone lane spit on my leg awhile ago, very nasty and I hope he got a ticket for it! Just glad i had on long pants at the time!

RM

[Greenwald]

Karen, a few years ago I stopped at a CHP office to inquire about this . They mentioned that there aren't any laws that specifically address "lane splitting", "lane sharing", "white lining", etc. Each individual officer has the authority to make a decision about whether he (or she) thinks you're doing something unsafe or illegal. They have a whole toolbox of laws to hit you with. For instance, if you tick someone's mirror going by, they could ticket you for "usafe lane change" or whatever.

The CHP LEO who drove a car said he felt that lane splitting was dangerous under any circumstances. The CHP LEO at the adjacent desk--who rides a bike--said he thought splitting was safe, although he personally wouldn't split at more than about 40 mph faster than traffic.

I offered some suggestions on splitting etiquette on Proficient Motorcycling second edition.

pmdave:type

Checked with CA contacts, and like Dave said, while there is NO LAW THAT SPECIFICALLY PERMITS lane splitting by motorcycles in California, there is also no law that 'specifically prohibits it either.'

In other words, you're at the LEO's discretion whenever you perform that maneuver.

Ride aware and in view! :wave

[larrysb]

Lane splitting?

Bahh.

I just did the Edelweiss "Tuscany by Scooter Tour". I road a 650cc Burgman Executive in rush hour traffic in Florence, many times. (the tour was the best vacation I've ever had by the way).

Lane splitting, which is legal in California (if there ain't a law against it, it is legal by definition) used to tense me up.

Lane-splitting, is for babies.

We rode like all the other maniacs in traffic. Wrong side of the road, zip back in just before the oncoming bus reaches you, filter around anything that is stopped, never even slow down at stop signs. Felt crazy, until the 15 year old girl went zipping right through us all on a 125cc Scarabeo.

[Greenwald]

"Lane splitting, which is legal in California (if there ain't a law against it, it is legal by definition) used to tense me up. "

Ouch!

That's the 'slippery slope' rationalization process that has probably given us half the laws we have on the books today.

The old "If we can't trust citizens to exercise common sense (be it seatbelts, helmets, building codes, assisted suicide, etc.), we'll legislate them into submission."

Wish it were not so, but there you have it. :dunno

[marchyman]

"Lane splitting, which is legal in California (if there ain't a law against it, it is legal by definition) used to tense me up. "

Ouch!

That's the 'slippery slope' rationalization that has probably given us half the laws we have on the books today.

:confused: What's a slippery slope? Are you talking abou the if there ain't a law against it, it is legal by definition part? In the broadest terms he is correct. There is no law that says walking to the corner store is legal. There is no law that says wearing a hat when I take that walk is legal. There is no law that says 99% of the things I do every day are legal. Yet they are because there is no law saying otherwise.

That doesn't mean you won't be hassled for doing something legal. Example: There is no law against taking pictures in public yet many cops and security guards will tell you otherwise, citing the "9/11 rules". There are no such general rules. There are explicit laws pertaining to some military bases and nuclear power plants. In one famous instance a motorcyclist was charged with wiretapping... because that was the closest thing they could find pertaining to the helmet cam video he posted to youtube. The video contained audio, you see... The charges were eventually tossed by a judge, but I wonder how much it cost the motorcyclist in legal fees to get that far.

My favorite was the on film video of security guard telling a TV camera crew they could not set up in a transit station as they were getting ready to interview the transit spokesperson explain how it was not illegal to take pictures in the station. :doh

[Greenwald]

Gosh! That much paranoia would keep me up at night. :dance

[larrysb]

"Lane splitting, which is legal in California (if there ain't a law against it, it is legal by definition) used to tense me up. "

Ouch!

That's the 'slippery slope' rationalization process that has probably given us half the laws we have on the books today.

The old "If we can't trust citizens to exercise common sense (be it seatbelts, helmets, building codes, assisted suicide, etc.), we'll legislate them into submission."

Wish it were not so, but there you have it. :dunno

No, by definition, if there is no law against something, it is legal. This is a basic premise of law, at least in the USA.

There are already laws against reckless driving. One can drive the posted speed limit and get busted for reckless driving, if the speed is not safe for the conditions, no?

On the converse, if the law says one may not proceed through a red light, that makes even the reasonable case of passing through a malfunctioning signal against the law, unless an exception is made in the law.

[Greenwald]

No, by definition, if there is no law against something, it is legal. This is a basic premise of law, at least in the USA.

There are already laws against reckless driving. One can drive the posted speed limit and get busted for reckless driving, if the speed is not safe for the conditions, no?

On the converse, if the law says one may not proceed through a red light, that makes even the reasonable case of passing through a malfunctioning signal against the law, unless an exception is made in the law.

Well - something of a spirited debate here - well done.

As for your first scenario, no - if "speed is not safe for conditions," one is cited for "Operating Too Fast For Conditions" - not Reckless Operation, which is usually a misdemeanor or even a lower-class felony in some states.

As for your 'red light' scenario, you are correct - while the sensitivity of a traffic control signal can be adjusted by a municipality, how sensitive it is or how quickly such sensitivity is 'corrected' does not relieve an operator of the need to obey, and (as is often the debate here when discussing motorcycles), a signal simply not recognizing our presence does not, according to many Courts, make the 'leap of definition' to declaring it as malfunctioning, and therefore subject to citizen violation at will.

But it was your opening salvo about "if there is not law, it is legal" that truly raised an eyebrow. The Law is a fluid document of civilized society, and here in the USA, our system of jurisprudence is supported by four basic pillars. The third of these pillars is Legal Realism, which states that the ongoing practice of law ultimately determines what is the law. That sort of supports what you stated, but not with the ironclad certainty that was implied.

Behavior perceived to be 'outside of the law' is what leads to reams of new laws being added to the books annually across our nation. :banghead

[jforgo]

:confused: What's a slippery slope? Are you talking abou the if there ain't a law against it, it is legal by definition part? In the broadest terms he is correct. There is no law that says walking to the corner store is legal. There is no law that says wearing a hat when I take that walk is legal. There is no law that says 99% of the things I do every day are legal. Yet they are because there is no law saying otherwise.

That doesn't mean you won't be hassled for doing something legal. Example: There is no law against taking pictures in public yet many cops and security guards will tell you otherwise, citing the "9/11 rules". There are no such general rules. There are explicit laws pertaining to some military bases and nuclear power plants. In one famous instance a motorcyclist was charged with wiretapping... because that was the closest thing they could find pertaining to the helmet cam video he posted to youtube. The video contained audio, you see... The charges were eventually tossed by a judge, but I wonder how much it cost the motorcyclist in legal fees to get that far.

My favorite was the on film video of security guard telling a TV camera crew they could not set up in a transit station as they were getting ready to interview the transit spokesperson explain how it was not illegal to take pictures in the station. :doh

Things simply start out as "legal". We can do anything and everything, until we hand over specific powers to the state under the Social Contract. Everything is permitted, unless it is specifically prohibited, within the jursdiction of those who actually have been given power to determine such things.
But it seems we are getting to the slave state mentality, doesn't it? By this I mean, that which is not permitted is deemed to be prohibited, or requires permission. Currently some of the disguise for encroachment is "war on terror", "if it saves one life it's worth it", or my persional favorite, ' it is for the children". But historically there have been myriad rationalizations for a grab at expanded power.
The slippery slope really comes from the legal profession, which is perhaps better understood as the legal industry. Money is made making laws with loopholes for special interests, superficial catering to the popular emotion of the day, and vagaries to be litigated. All with some slick rationalization which cannot take the light of day. Very lucrative! It is this industry which manufactures and helps fan the perceived need for the reams of laws on the books, which is their bread and butter. The following quote almost gets it, but "outside the law" should be replaced with "outside the legal industry comfort zone".
Behavior perceived to be 'outside of the law' is what leads to reams of new laws being added to the books annually across our nation

[OfficerImpersonator]

I have two concerns with lane splitting.

1. My bike is a hippopotamus, and is incapable of fitting between cars. If you ride a big bike, you're in the same boat.
2. When a jurisdiction permits lane splitting/filtering, it had better engage in a massive outreach campaign to educate cage drivers that motorcycles are allowed to ride between cars under certain conditions - and to expect it when it happens.

I cam imagine the curmudgeons in their cages dumping their cold coffee and cigarette butts on riders when they don't like/expect what they see.

[ANDYVH]

If I lived in crappy traffic hell-hole of LA/California I'd lane split for sure, but with a lot of brains about it, and not a lot of speed. No thanks, I'll stick to Wisconsin, don't have to worry about that kind of traffic or about 1/2 the state slipping off into the Pacific.

I once asked a California Highway Patrol officer if lane-splitting was "legal". His response? He said, "it's not ILLEGAL, so it's tolerated. But, if I see a rider lane splitting stupid and too fast I will pull him over for aggressive riding. Beyond that, lane splitting is ok if done right."

[henzilla]

Gee Andy , how do you really feel about CA? I've heard the same description for certain WI areas as well :ha At least they can ride their bikes in crappy traffic year round,eh?


I spent a week in SoCal recently and used the carpool lanes to my advantage...my GSA looked like it would get stuck when I thought about following some sportbikes on one occasion. I eventually passed them in the carpool lanes anyway.

TX had brought it up again this session as a possible law, but was dropped. It's hard enough to get two cagers to play nice on the freeways here anyways without trying to squeak a bike thru. I could go with the filtering part...even done it since there is no LAW against it on occasion. Took a chewing once about twenty years ago , but no ticket.

[larrysb]

I lane split in California. Honestly, I feel safer splitting on the freeway when it is bumper to bumper and everyone is at a standstill than I do sitting, waiting to be rear-ended at a standstill. I filter at lights, when there's room and the light hasn't been red for long. Not so much on the R12GS-Adv, it's huge and never if the cases are on it. My Burgman is a lot more suitable for doing this.

In Italy, you'd freak out the drivers if you didn't lane split and filter at every light.

[Stokes73]

Ok, I confess I have and do on occasion lane split. This is usually when I'm in dead stopped traffic and the bike is over heating. Anyone that has ridden Rt 95 through Connecticut has experienced traffic backups that can go for miles.

On one occasion I followed a GS rider through 14 miles of stopped traffic. We both got off at a rest stop and I met the other rider - Lawrence Fishburne He was on his way to the Cape from NYC.

[eric r]

Riding on I-20 E/B after picking up my new (to me) GS, I came upon V E R Y slow moving traffic ...stop and go at a walking pace. To keep things cool I motored down the left shoulder (maybe three feet wide), and was only "blocked" by one trucker who was determined to not let me pass. I guess he didn't realize that this old dirt rider was on a GS! A few cagers were vicibly upset that I was making time and moved over a little in an attempt to block ... I almost reverted to an old trick I used when riding motors on the PD in California, slapping their rearview morror out of whack! Since I was not on a black and white, and considering that everyone has a cellphone, I just passed them by VERY CLOSE.
The blockage was road work related and went on for over ten miles! I guess I saved about an hour or two and an overheated motor.

[88bmwJeff]

22107. No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.

22108. Any signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given continuously during the last 100 feet traveled by the vehicle before turning.



Drivers in CA using their signals :rofl:rofl I don't see that happening. And the few that do tend to turn it on as they turn, not before.

With regards to lane splitting, I don't do it. I don't ride enough to have the skills to do it. That's not to say that I would never do it, but I feel that I would have to sharpen my skills a bit more. Also, I drive for my job, and I've seen too many crazy drivers during rush hour, that in reality I try to avoid it in my car as much as possible.

[larrysb]

But it was your opening salvo about "if there is not law, it is legal" that truly raised an eyebrow. The Law is a fluid document of civilized society, and here in the USA, our system of jurisprudence is supported by four basic pillars. The third of these pillars is Legal Realism, which states that the ongoing practice of law ultimately determines what is the law. That sort of supports what you stated, but not with the ironclad certainty that was implied.

Behavior perceived to be 'outside of the law' is what leads to reams of new laws being added to the books annually across our nation. :banghead


All the flowery language aside, if there ain't a law against, I can't be charged with a violation of the law.

Judge: "Son, why are you here in my courtroom? All I got is a blank sheet of paper with your name on it."

Defendant: "Something about legal realism. Can I go home now?"

Again I say, it is legal unless someone wrote a law against it.