these new bikes are junk???

[Hodag]

I hear this quite often, is it just a "good old days" view?
For instance:
telescopic forks vs. Earles
Electric start vs. kick start
carb vs fuel injection
paralever vs. telever (still don't know the difference)
Airhead vs. oilhead vs. K bike
Abs vs. coasting to a slow stop

Is it just a older is better view?
If you have a .1% failure rate on 1000 bikes 1 person is effected, if you have it on 20,000 the number is 20 fold.
basically are the new bikes junk or there are more of them so the affected total is higher. Plus with the ability to share the info rapidly are we just crying wolf?
Basically bored on a Sunday looking for trouble.
Mark

[cruisin]

I think the newer bikes are better in most ways like better performance that came with better technology. On the other hand, do we REALLY need the amount of performance currently being offered. I mean really, does anyone really need a bike that can go 140mph, 150mph, or more? Then there is the realiability factor, do the new ones out last the old ones? My old R75 had a lot of trouble free miles on it when I had to sell it in 1980. But the '99 cruiser had 72K without a single problem and I have put 43K on a used 98 RT without much problem (currently have a leaky front fork seal at 65K). Do the new ones seem like more trouble because we have a harder time working on them and it costs us more money to take them to a shop as opposed to doing all of the work ourselves like we used to do on the old airheads? Lot to think about here but I would mind owning an old airhead again but I don't think I will give up any of the current bikes to do so.

I too am sitting here watching snow fall wishing it would go away so I can ride.

[The_Veg]

I spend a lot of time on another forum that is primarily concerned with Airheads and it's really something sometimes to hear those guys rant and rave about why they'd never have fuel injection on a bike. Fool Injection they call it!
My first bike was an '85 K100 that needed pretty much a complete restoration when I got it. When I heard something rattling around inside the FI box, I opened it up and saw that among the surface-mount analog components (no computer!) were a bunch of old dirt-dauber nests. I shook them out and reassembled. The bike ALWAYS ran fine.
Fuel injection really is physically pretty bulletproof. The old cranks on that Airhead forum I frequent go on about the components being not well-protected. Oh yeah? Every Bosch box I've ever seen is pretty well-sealed from the elements. The ingnition box on that old K100 rather resembled military equipment in fact. Then they say what if it dies out in the middle of nowhere? Sure it could happen, but it's about as likely as a few other problems that you can't fix by the roadside, like your frame breaking in half. I love those old curmudgeons but I think they could open their minds to technology a bit. I strongly prefer simpler vehicles myself, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy an R1200GS if it were in my budget.
And yes, we DO suffer from easy, instant communication. This is the safest, least-violent time in human history yet everybody thinks there's a psycho-killer under every leaf. Ergo motorcycle problems.
I think in many ways this is another golden age of motorcycling. It would be a platinum age if the manufacturers would include USA for some of their new models, but that's another thread...

[GlobalRider]

Then they say what if it dies out in the middle of nowhere? Sure it could happen, but it's about as likely as a few other problems that you can't fix by the roadside, like your frame breaking in half.

When hi-tech works, its great, and when it doesn't, no matter how slight that chance is, then what? Now for 99.9% of the riders that isn't an issue simply because of where the bike is operated. It certainly isn't for those that don't know a single thing about mechanics. They wouldn't know an oil filler cap from the gas filler cap.

And if you broke your frame in half, you certainly wouldn't want a fuel pump and injectors in that type of environement. The nearest town 200 miles away probably never heard of your make and model of bike.

I have both old and new. You know what? One doesn't do anything any better then the other, so why add complexity without realizing a REAL gain.

I won't :banghead against a wall. I'll be riding when the other hi-tech rider is at the side of the road with a broken fuel pump or even something as simple as a FP relay.

[bmwcliff]

I was for many years a die-hard "Airhead or I'll walk" kind of guy. Went one day to the new "corporate" BMW store, took a look around, seen some guys my age [50+], talked awhile. Went back one day and was offered a ride on a 2004 Rockster demo, well the rest is history. I ended up making a deal on the demo, and I am very satisfied, and dont intend to look back, except with a certain fondness of memory. The new Bike does everything better, and yeah you cant exactly do everything on it alone, but as I get older, I have more fun things going in my life besides the Bike. :clap

[Pat Carol]

I must say that I am fortunate enough to have the best of both worlds. I have a 78 R 100 RS and a 97 R 1100 RS.
First of all there is nothing like a nice cruise on an old airhead in this day and age of super suspension and fuel injection. The 78 RS revolutionized sport touring motorcycles. It is a very simple machine to wrench on and there are still plenty of parts out there.
Moving onto the 97 1100 RS. That bike was posessed from day one. It started out with a lot of problems. At 15,000 miles the engine melted down while at speed. This happened less than a mile from attending a bike blessing and having the bike blessed. That is why I feel that this bike is or was posessed.
The bottom line is. No matter if you ride a brick,thumper,airhead or oilhead, they are all superb machines. The new bikes are nice but, they are complicated to work on because of the computer crap. It is always good to have a back up bike. Remember anything man made is destined to fall apart.




Take Care & Ride Safe
Pat Carol

[GeoffMiller]

I too was a die-hard airhead rider. Last summer I made the mistake of test riding a K1200RS. I too am looking at the snow fall and am wondering when I can take my new blue and white beauty out for a ride. Airheads have their problems too. Fortunately my dealer still works on airheads and he loaded up my airhead back in the trailer while delivering the new bike. I had planned on putting money down on the K12S but chickened out after all of the recalls and other delays. I figure that the 'brick' has been around over 20 years and all of the bugs should be worked out of it. I am debating whether or not I should sell the airhead once the electrical problems are sorted out. On one hand, you cannot have too many motorcycles. On the other hand, my time is limited and realistically I will probably not ride the airhead. You hear the same stuff about old cars. Everone forgets about plugs, points, and condensors every 10K or so. Tires were shot at 20K. No crash protection. I found it kind of cool on the new bike just to turn the key and push the starter button. No petcocks, no choking, no fiddling around. :D

[Cliffy777]

well dang-nabbit luke. i stay away from all technology on account of it might bust some time or another. no cell phones, air conditioning, thermostat, computer, or internet for me. no sir, just give me a horse and buggy.
just kidding, but i kind of look at this like i look at the amish. who decided when advancements were too much and it was time to stop? i respect their right to horse and buggy, but a buggy with suspension was an advancement from the transportation they had in bible days, so why not just walk or take a donkey? who drew the line and said "anything advancing past this is baaad"? why don't they use wooden frame buggies?
as i recall from my reading, BMW motorcycles have always tended to be at the leading edge of technology. a 1977 airhead was cutting edge in its day - so if one was a TRUE purist then one would only ride something made circa 1924 or so, right? why take advantage of that extra 50 years of "gizmos", stay on the original deal and bounce your ass off with poor suspension and hard tires. (i say this with tongue in cheek, but i am trying to make a point.)
i love my rockster, so should i form a little group that shuns anything made post 2004? it kind of reminds me of the "true blue" harley people rejecting the v-rod because HD made something with some technology instead of just noise!
that being said, i do understand alex's point about going off road with a simple, easy to fix with carry along tools kind of bike. but i think it is easy to get in a rut and it is something to be watched out for!

[GlobalRider]

A 1977 airhead was cutting edge in its day - so if one was a TRUE purist then one would only ride something made circa 1924 or so, right?

A bit of a difference, Cliffy.

There is a huge difference in the performance and reliability over 200,000 miles between an R32 and a '77 airhead.

The difference between my R100 GS and R1150 GS Adventure, spread by almost 25 years, is nil in the real world.

[Cliffy777]

Alex wrote:" A bit of a difference, Cliffy.
There is a huge difference in the performance and reliability over 200,000 miles between an R32 and a '77 airhead.
The difference between my R100 GS and R1150 GS Adventure, spread by almost 25 years, is nil in the real world."

i guess my point was missed. it seems to me like a pissing contest for people to decide when improvements are too improved or when technological advances are too advanced. having never been able to pee very far i kind of like to avoid those contests.
I would be willing to wager that some folks might find a world of difference between your two bikes, but not everyone is riding the same path you are on. am i being repetitively redundant?

[GlobalRider]

I guess my point was missed. it seems to me like a pissing contest for people to decide when improvements are too improved or when technological advances are too advanced.

Not a pissing contest at all, Cliffy. I have both generations of boxers and if you really knew me, I don't play politician...I tell it as it is.

You brought up improvements or technologically advanced. Can you give me some examples how my 2004 GS Adventure is improved or technologically advanced over my 1990 R100 GS?

The fact that it has fuel injection doesn't fly as an answer. I want to know what my gain is, but then, lets be fair and discuss the disadvantages as well.

[riderR1150GSAdv]

I had an 1980 RT and it was for the time a great bike. Looking back however I must admit that the brakes were anemic at best, the carbs were like a fickle woman and the ride was.... wel lets say nice but my Kreidler 50 CC rode the same way.
Flash forward and my 2005 LT is a two wheeled cage :huh :eek compared to my 80's bike. Is it better? Yes, but are we all more spoiled now?? Yes too :doh
I guess you get used to what you have at the time you own a particular bike, the fun factor with it, all depends not on the bike, but on the riders perception of fun. Yup, I had a great time with my 'old' RT same with my 04 RT and now 05 LT. On the latter two bikes I have seen more of planet earth than on my 80's RT. Is new better than old? Not always but for right now I take my cruise control, heated seats $ grips and ABS and electric windshield and......and.. oh my I gone crosseyed Basil. :D :D I just wanna say :bikes

[tommy]

i bought my first new bike in 1962 - i'm here to say that the bikes are just getting better & better - i ride an old 1994 for 2 reasons - i'm poor & i'm in love with this K75 of mine - it's the perfect bike for me at this time & place in life - tommy

[kbasa]

A bit of a difference, Cliffy.

There is a huge difference in the performance and reliability over 200,000 miles between an R32 and a '77 airhead.

The difference between my R100 GS and R1150 GS Adventure, spread by almost 25 years, is nil in the real world.

I'm going to bet that you have a greater chance of having to fix a torn carb diaphragm than you do a busted FI system on a BMW.

FWIW, I'm gettting an airhead to go with our hexhead, two oilheads and VFR. The airheads are cool, but not as my primary touring transpo. They're vintage bikes now.

[Hodag]

Yah, thats what I thought....

:fight
Mark

[YB in IN]

I'm going to bet that you have a greater chance of having to fix a torn carb diaphragm than you do a busted FI system on a BMW.



Yup. Ny old airhead left me stranded more than once on the road due to electrical problems. Everyone talks about how easy they are to work on, but the thing is you are always having to work on it. The hypothetical being stranded 200 miles from nowhere thing doesn't fly with me either. There isn't much to do when your voltage regulator goes unbeknownst to you and boils your battery dry and kills your electronics (it happened twice). I bought a K bike because I was sick of having my bike down with all kinds of random crap that had little or no connection to each other. No thanks. I have better things to do with my time than to sit and fiddle around with something when I should be out riding, which I can do on my K bike without thinking twice about it.

[The_Veg]

I've never had more than one bike. First was a K100, now I have an Airhead. Overall I like the Airhead better. Not saying it *IS* better, or maybe I am, since better is so highly subjective and individual a judgement. But both are great. Sure the Airhead has more things to maintain. Sure the Airhead is less powerful. But it gives more satisfaction.

On a humourous note, Dave, I raise an eyebrow at that 'vintage' comment. My Airhead (made in December *1995*) is ten years younger than my K-Bike was. My Airhead has Paralever in back and the same fork as a K75S. A friend of mine who rides an R1150R tried my Airhead and suddenly felt that his bike's designers had missed the point.

I think there will be an Oilhead in my future, probably an R1200GS but you never know what'll tickle my fancy when the time comes. I also hope The BatBike lasts as long as I do. I'll take the latest high-tech bike as long as it looks, sounds and feels like a motorcycle and then appeals to my tastes. But I'll also love good ol' machines.

And for now, I'll keep touring on my Airhead. :D

[Braddog]

I've never owned an oilhead or a K-bike, but currently own 2 airheads. These "vintage" bikes are my daily and long haul rides. They're plenty fast for me, and great to work on, for someone like me who doesn't really like to do mechanic-type work, but doesn't like to pay someone else to do the simpler stuff.

I'll just say this. In my opinion, simple is good. I don't mind my little routine of petcock-choke lever-start the motor-choke lever (again). It's no big deal to me at all.

However, I'll not diss EFI. Let's face it, many Japanese models, Euro models, even Harley has EFI. And have had it for awhile. It's not only there for performance, but emissions as well. And, from what I've heard, there isn't exactly mass failures of EFI modules. The only issue is if it DOES fail, you're stopped. There are no bodges you can put in place, usually.

What I find the most disappointing are the drive failures reported on the KLT's and the R12GS's. These are things that shouldn't happen unexpectedly if normal maintenance is performed. And yet we've all read the horror stories.

The thing is, when comparing the airheads to comparable bikes of their day, they were not only reliable, but durable and long lasting. And let's face it, no matter what you rode in the 60's and 70's, you had to be a bit of a roadside mechanic to get by.

The new bikes are more complicated, are not as easy to maintain in your own garage, but are some very amazing machines to ride. There are 2 things that will really push me in to owning a new oilhead or K-bike:
1.) My wife decides she wants to ride with me more.
2.) Parts get very scarce for the airheads.
Until then, I'm fine with what I have.

[tommy]

Brad D.
Member #105766
'77 R100RS - Black Beauty
'77 R100S - Ruby
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Brad - thats really cool to have 2 77's as rides - i like my K75RT so well if i run into a stad. K75 i would be temped - i love the looks of this bike - t

[GeoffMiller]

Brad, I hope you didn't take offence at my observation of the petcock, choke, whatever thing, it is just kind of nice not worrying about that stuff! One hears a lot of talk about how things were better in the good old days. I'm just not so sure that the good old days were as good as everybody remembers them. Parking my airhead (and she is a beauty!) next to the new machine, I have to admit that the new bike is absolutely a thing of beauty!! The fit and finish are unbelievable!!! Yes, it is kind of weird to turn on the key and hear all the buzzing and whirring as the bike does it's brake checks. However, the performance is absolutely intoxicating!! I think that it is time to remember the old ad, different strokes for different folks!!!!

[GeoffMiller]

Tommy, that is one fine lookin' machine!!

[dlearl476]

>When hi-tech works, its great, and when it doesn't, no matter how slight that chance is, then what?

Exactly what the 1 in 6 f650 gs owners with surging and stalling bikes were asking.

>I'm going to bet that you have a greater chance of having to fix a torn carb diaphragm than you do a busted FI system on a BMW.

The difference is that you CAN fix a torn diaphragm by the side of the road with a screwdriver from the toolkit!

My take on the debate:
Bikes are good. More bikes are better. I love my '81 MotoGuzzi and my '69 Duc, but I had a fanastic time on my K75 last weekend. I'm glad I don't have to choose between "old" and "new", both are excellent!

[GlobalRider]

I'm going to bet that you have a greater chance of having to fix a torn carb diaphragm than you do a busted FI system on a BMW.

The airheads are cool, but not as my primary touring transpo.

Since my first BMW in 1991, I've never had a torn diaphram, but then I maintain my bikes. The fact is, at least you can fix it and get going again. A failed fuel pump or injector? You tell me.

My friend used his 1991 R100 GS PD as his primary touring mount. At the tip of South America for Christmas, he came across a bunch of world travellers, Grant & Sue Johnson, Dr. Frazier, and some poor depressed soul from Germany on his R1100GS with a failed fuel pump. That same friend chose the last of the carburetted F650s for his Africa tour...good thing too.

Now where we ride, who cares what fails. There is parts and service around the corner...like I said for 99.9% of us, it isn't an issue. But when you are off touring in other parts of the world, you think about roadside repairability. If you don't, then you have to expect lengthy down times.

[GlobalRider]

The thing is, when comparing the airheads to comparable bikes of their day, they were not only reliable, but durable and long lasting. And let's face it, no matter what you rode in the 60's and 70's, you had to be a bit of a roadside mechanic to get by.

My 1980 R65 that I use in Europe is a prime example. The only thing that failed were the coil bracket broke off (common) and the original rear wheel bearings finally went at year 21 with zero maintenance. On that bike, I would never give a possible rear drive failure or driveshaft failure a nanosecond of thought.

On my R100 GS, I have a spare driveshaft sitting on the shelf. Hmmmm. Progress, I guess.

The only high tech device on the R65 is an aftermarket electronic ignition that the previous owner installed. But I tye-wrapped the original points to ignition wire to the other harness so that if the electronics fail ,which means I'm dead in the water, I can stick the points and condensor in there and be rolling in 15 minutes.

My next bike going to Europe will be my 2004 GS Adventure. Great bike but I'm not thrilled at the thought of being way up Scandinavia without a dealer nearby. Forget Africa on the oilhead...good thing I have that R80 G/S PD.

[Braddog]

Brad, I hope you didn't take offence at my observation of the petcock, choke, whatever thing, it is just kind of nice not worrying about that stuff! One hears a lot of talk about how things were better in the good old days. I'm just not so sure that the good old days were as good as everybody remembers them. Parking my airhead (and she is a beauty!) next to the new machine, I have to admit that the new bike is absolutely a thing of beauty!! The fit and finish are unbelievable!!! Yes, it is kind of weird to turn on the key and hear all the buzzing and whirring as the bike does it's brake checks. However, the performance is absolutely intoxicating!! I think that it is time to remember the old ad, different strokes for different folks!!!!
No offense at all, Geoff! :wave Whenever another BMW rider (usually someone on an oilhead or newer K-Bike) sees me on one of my bikes they say, "Great ride, wait until you try a new one!" Frankly, I can't wait to test ride some of the newer Beemers. The main reason I won't do it now, is because I know that I'll have to have one!

I still think things like EFI and ABS are bigger advantages to 4-wheels, though. Maybe I just need to spend more time on 2, and go more places.

[bobw]

I really should not respond to this thread lest I incurr the wrath of Murphy.
:hide

Haven't had any problems with either bike. One has FI, the other does not.
Both have a certain appeal to me, the LT is very comfortable and has excellent wind protection; however, the GS is lighter and can go places the LT cannot. I have ridden the LT 775 miles in one day (I'm not into the Iron Butt stuff) and still was not worn out but I would not do that on the GS. I go to Northern New Mexico a lot and there are many places I cannot take the LT but the GS will go there. I really enjoy both bikes because each has its own purpose.
I do most of my own maintenance on both. The LT was intimidating at first but after the first time of removing all that tupperware I was ok with it.

[James.A]

I used to own an oilhead, never owned K-model. I doubt that I will live long enough to own the last running airhead, but I'm gonna try.
Luddite that I am, I must admit that the oilhead was undeniably the most reliable bike I ever rode.

[MCMXCIVRS]

I always find it a bit funny when someone tells me they like the older carbs and points technology "because I can fix it myself at the side of the road". I've had my oilhead for 8 years with nearly 100K of riding, and I have NEVER HAD to fix anything at the side of the road except a burnt out light. And, there is far less regular maintenance needed too. I respect those that wish to stick with the older machines just the same. I think it takes a lot more faith and courage to head out for a long tour on an old airhead than a new bike.

[bobw]

Old or New...at ANY time....any place. The thing to do is take as good care of it as you can. Don't obsess about it breaking....or it will. Simply accept the fact that it is a possibility that it MIGHT break.....then put it out of your mind. In the case of moto's, as has been said many times....Just Ride it!!!!

:thumb

[rocketman]

I always get a kick out these threads, and I think in the end that it boils down to the fact that “better” is pretty arbitrary. It really depends on how each individual interprets “better”. For some, like myself being pretty much a die-hard airhead rider, simple is better because I have an intimidate familiarity with the “simple” technology and enjoy tinkering with my machine, yet have never had to spend overmuch time keeping my machines in running order. Doing most of my own work and knowing I can do it with a minimum of tools give me a satisfaction of knowing just what’s up with each component and I have no hesitation with riding any number of miles to any location well off the beaten track with full confidence I will be able to get home, as much as anyone with a more modern machine.

For others the advantages of the newer technology are better, certainly the idea is that such technology will last longer between repairs, provide better performance, greater comfort and reliability. Perhaps they aren’t interested in tinkering or doing their own repairs/maintenance or are more comfortable with new technology and enjoy the higher level of skill and knowledge required for dealing with it and enjoy using the high tech tools required.

Each has it’s place, each equally valid when taking into consideration the goals/expectations of the individual. Maybe for some it is strictly about riding, while for others it is getting their hands into the works, some are comfortable knowing the work is performed by someone they trust, while others are less sure of others competence and prefer trusting themselves.

I personally find the cost of ownership much lower for an airhead as I don’t mind using used parts and find parts/repairs are generally cheaper for those compared to what others I know who have modern bikes have told me of overall cost of ownership (this includes purchase price), but I fully admit that I’m somewhat biased toward airheads and older machines in general and doubt I’ll ever own a modern machine. On the other hand a late 80-early 90’s K could perhaps sway me. Mostly I just don’t like the looks of the new bikes, the tanks are just TOO wide, I like looking down and seeing the ground go whizzing by and anything with lots of bodywork just turns me off, I LIKE seeing the motor and all the works!

Oddly enough as far as cars go, I like the fact the high tech design means reliability/comfort, but I have never had any desire to have to do ANY work on cars, I leave that up the warranty folks and don’t mind paying the price for such service!

RM

[GlobalRider]

I always get a kick out these threads, and I think in the end that it boils down to the fact that “better” is pretty arbitrary. It really depends on how each individual interprets “better”.

I have never had any desire to have to do ANY work on cars, I leave that up the warranty folks and don’t mind paying the price for such service!


Exactly!

I have to chuckle at those threads that carry topics like: What is the best bike? (for what purpose). But there are also topics that aren't open to opinions, just facts.

I'd have to agree with you. If I would undertake a round-the-world tour, simplicity is the way to go...like an old R80 G/S PD. Sort of like you wouldn't fabricate luggage mounts out of stainless because you can't weld stainless just anywhere; mild steel you can.

As for cars, I just buy a quality Japanese product so that I can ride my bike instead of having to wrench on my car.

[flash412]

In the business in which I work, there can be many definitions of what is "better" for similar components in different products. What is "better" for one product might be price, quality, reliability and availability, in that order. For another product, the same items might be represented, but in a totally different order. Or perhaps only a subset of those items represented.

Did anybody watch The Long Way Round series on the Discovery Channel with Ewan McGreggor? If you watched the whole thing, you will remember that Claudio, the cameraman, hit a rock on his R1150GS and broke a weld loose on his frame. They made a splint out of some tire irons and Ty-Wraps and the bike made it to Ulan Bataar where they found a welding shop. The guy did a GREAT job welding up the frame. Ewan and Charlie were waxing eloquent about the job. Then they took it for a test ride. The ABS was fried and the bike had NO BRAKES.

Their solution was to essentially throw the R1150GS away. (It was never again mentioned in the series.) They bought a cheap Russian bike, brand new, for about US$1200. Claudio rode it along with them on their R1150GSs. The next episode had them talking about how Claudio could ride circles around them in the muck and mire that passes for roads in Mongolia on his light, uncomplicated bike. Then Claudio's bike broke down. Some Mongols came along, pulled out the bike's toolkit and fixed it, laughing at the stupid westerners while they did it. This happened twice, IIRC.

For Claudio in Mongolia, a p.o.s. Russian bike using pre-WWII technology seemed to be a MUCH better bike than a brand new R1150GS. For some guy with a cell phone and a credit card who never leaves the highway in the Northeast Corridor, the R1200GS (with the BMW "Emergency" card in his wallet) is certainly the better bike.

To someone with zero problem-solving skills, a broken carburetor is just as problematic and has the identical solution as a broken fuel injection system... credit card and cell phone. That person needs the warranty supplied with a new bike.

To someone with many problem-solving skills, ease of field-repair is a whole lot more important than proximity to a dealer and cell phone signal strength. Different priorities.

"Better" is really ONLY related to the priorities and skill set of the user.

[widebmw]

Thats a shame that they threw away their 1200GS,s :dunno and continued
the ride on the 1150 GS Adventures that they started with. :doh

[BubbaZanetti]

i love(d) my airhead, i loved that i was able to learn a ton about it, and do a ton of work on it it the six short months i had with it. i received it beat up and was actually able to sit there with a book and some prior mechanical knowlege and actually produce a desired result with a minimal of tools and time.........

that being said, my decision to purchase a new oilhead lies strictly with my need for a more reliable/better performing bike. i felt like i was begining to push the limits of my airhead, even after just a few months (fork stifness, cornering ability, things like that) this might have been due to the fact that i was riding with ducati and new triumph guys whos bikes had a 20 yr advantage on mine. I also don't have the time or necessary tools to bring the airhead up to what i would consider a daily driver for the next few years to come. it gave me 11,000 great miles last summer including a 6000 mile cross country trip, but it also gave me a lot of electrical trouble on the trip due to 10 yrs of neglect prior to my purchase of it last spring. it is going cheaply to a good friend knowing it owes me nothing......

all things considered, i love the look, soul and attitude of the airhead, if only i could get one with about 100 hp and a modern suspension i'd be in heaven, cause to me the new bikes are better looking than the competition, but no where near as beautiful as the airhead.................

[GlobalRider]

To someone with zero problem-solving skills, a broken carburetor is just as problematic and has the identical solution as a broken fuel injection system... credit card and cell phone. That person needs the warranty supplied with a new bike.

To someone with many problem-solving skills, ease of field-repair is a whole lot more important than proximity to a dealer and cell phone signal strength. Different priorities.

AMEN...what I've already said further up this thread.

[GlobalRider]

My decision to purchase a new oilhead lies strictly with my need for a more reliable/better performing bike.

Better performing, yes; more reliable, I don't think so.

What component is more reliable on one over the other?
The crankshaft?
The connecting rods?
The pistons and rings?
The camshaft?
The valves?
The oil pump?
...just to name a few. You'd be hard pressed to find the above failures on any airhead or oilhead in any numbers that you could chalk up as a known issue.

So what is more reliable?
Maybe the charging system, but I can't agree. Mine has been flawless since my 90 GS was put into service.

Now if you want to talk about one being a bit more maintenance free than the other, sure, but only a bit.

Fuel injection is maintenance free, other than having to renew a fuel filter. Works perfectly as long as all components are within spec. So I agree, mainenance free till the day it quits. Carbs need the occasional rebuild.

The valve adjustment intervals on an oilhead may be a lot less often, but that doesn't make a bike more reliable; it makes it more maintenance free.

The same goes for the Telelever front forks. Maintenance free...no fork oil to change, only an expensive shock and three ball joints.

But thats about it. They all need fluids and filter changes, valve adjustments, carb or throttle body synch, etc.

As far as my airheads and oilheads go, they take equal money and time to keep on the road.

[Hodag]

I once had to tow my buddy's 100GS with my LT when his charging system quit on him. He's got a 1150GS now, so I bring stronger rope along.

mark

[GlobalRider]

I once had to tow my buddy's 100GS with my LT when his charging system quit on him. He's got a 1150GS now, so I bring stronger rope along.

mark

I like that one...seriously. :clap

Do you carry a spare rear drive along for the LT. You got the luggage space. :stick Ouch!

[Hodag]

Do you carry a spare rear drive along for the LT.

I got a '93, haven't heard too many issues with those. Its them new ones you have to look out for. (now I just did it myself)

The funny part was as we were tying up for the pull to the nearest town, he said to me "we better not get passed by any harleys"
Mark

[BubbaZanetti]

Better performing, yes; more reliable, I don't think so.


i was refering mainly to the charging and electrical system, it would be pretty much a complete overhaul for my bike, new harness, connection board and all new relays, the corrosion is just everywhere and i'm basically looking for something that i don't have to yank the tank off of and open up the headlight bucket every few weeks cause it won't start

but i agree, motor/driveline wise, equal reliability

[GlobalRider]

I was refering mainly to the charging and electrical system, it would be pretty much a complete overhaul for my bike, new harness, connection board and all new relays, the corrosion is just everywhere and i'm basically looking for something that i don't have to yank the tank off of and open up the headlight bucket every few weeks cause it won't start

Well Bubba, you are looking at a 21 year old bike. The oilhead if left in the elements will not be any different when it gets that old. Sure, it has sealed connectors, but when those seals dry out due to age/heat, they'll leak as well.

I don't operate as well now as I did 20 years ago. :D

Try some of that Würth contact/cleaner spray.

[The_Veg]

Does the arihead need 100 hp? I don't think it does. I had a K100RT that weighed at least 650 pounds and had about 100. I now have an R100R that weighs 450 and has about 60 hp. The power-to-weight ratios are quite similar and both bikes are quite fun. The R definitely handles better.
Also the R100R has much more modern suspension than the rest of the Airheads so it handles very nicely. It has been mechanically very reliable. It did have a charging issue for a while but that's been nipped. I like hooning aorund on this bike and I also like touring with it. I think this is the bike that Bubba should have tried in his Airhead days.

[BubbaZanetti]

haha, true, true


i guess i'm just making excuses when all i really want is something newer and quicker

but style wise the newer bikes have nothing on the airhead

[tommy]

style wise the newer bikes have nothing on the airhead
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

it's nice to see a younger person make a statement like that - BMW has taken their own direction in the style dept. - not saying thats a bad thing, personally i have always prefered the old school look

[GlobalRider]

But style wise the newer bikes have nothing on the airhead

Wouldn't it be nice if BMW came out with a production of R90 S...in smoke of course.

One never needs an excuse to buy a new bike. Better than spending the money on smokes or booze or some boring car.

[Chacifer]

Wouldn't it be nice if BMW came out with a production of R90 S...in smoke of course.

No way, Daytona Orange is it for the R90S.

[rocketman]

No way, Daytona Orange is it for the R90S.

or as we would say on the /5 Black Sheep ( or simply BS ) list "That's Daytona Fu*king Orange"! (though I wouldn't throw a grey Smoke painted S outta my grarage, ifin one just happened to "drop" in!) :D

RM

[BubbaZanetti]

the daytona orange r90s was my favorite bike as a kid

but as i've grown old and weary, i'm partial to the grey smoke now..............

[GlobalRider]

No way, Daytona Orange is it for the R90S.

Sure I'd take one, but it doesn't look as classy as smoke.

[Chacifer]

Sure I'd take one, but it doesn't look as classy as smoke.

And I would take one in smoke too. Such a lovely machine.

[flash412]

"Better" is really ONLY related to the priorities and skill set of the user.I got to thinking about this. If I go out and buy any BMW made from 1923 to the mid-1980's, I can make it work. I can find parts or make parts to make the bike go.

The guy with the cell phone and credit card and brand new 1200GS... what is he gonna do with that bike once the warranty runs out? He's gonna sell it. Most likely he has to because he NEEDS that warranty. Who's gonna buy it? Somebody who doesn't care about the warranty. Then it is gonna break and he's gonna find out that he CAN'T fix it because he has no MoDiTec computer to hook up to it. So HE is gonna sell it. Who is gonna buy it? In 20 years, NOBODY, including BMW, will be able to fix it. From what I hear, most BMW boutiques now refuse to work on /5's. Imagine what it will be like when the FI and/or ABS parts are no longer available.

Unlike days of yore, NEW BMWs are disposible motorcycles. They are designed (with their plethora of black boxes) to become obsolete and unusable.

If you think that is "better"... then we disagree.

[JCBR1150R]

I got to thinking about this. If I go out and buy any BMW made from 1923 to the mid-1980's, I can make it work. I can find parts or make parts to make the bike go.

The guy with the cell phone and credit card and brand new 1200GS... what is he gonna do with that bike once the warranty runs out? He's gonna sell it.

Unlike days of yore, NEW BMWs are disposible motorcycles. They are designed (with their plethora of black boxes) to become obsolete and unusable.

If you think that is "better"... then we disagree.

Great. So that means I can throw my bike away a few years from now like your average Geo Metro owner...

I think I'm gonna start up a bone yard somewhere in the foothills of Utah. A final, dignified resting place for these weary and misunderstood machines.

Any ideas for a name? How about:

~BeeMetro Wasteland~

suweeet!!

[DarrylRi]

Wouldn't it be nice if BMW came out with a production of R90 S...in smoke of course.Well... you could have... THIS:

http://darryl.crafty-fox.com/mcpics/2004/europe1/r11rs_motor/P5103781_med.jpg

;-)

[kbasa]

Yummy.

[roy]

Great. So that means I can throw my bike away a few years from now like your average Geo Metro owner...

I think I'm gonna start up a bone yard somewhere in the foothills of Utah. A final, dignified resting place for these weary and misunderstood machines.

Any ideas for a name? How about:

~BeeMetro Wasteland~

suweeet!!

Love the name, now all you have to do is be able to disect them and sell off the parts that are still good and you can be the new King of BeeMetro Wasteland emporium :thumb


In all fairness how many vehicles with black boxes either two or four wheeled are on the road well over 100,000 miles and still going strong? My 85 K is still running and from reading the posts mine ain't the only one. In fact I don't recall reading a single post about the FI brain dying.

My personal opion for the .02 cents it may be worth.

I don't care what brand you prefer, if it isn't maintained well it probably ain't gonna run very long.

[JCBR1150R]

...In fact I don't recall reading a single post about the FI brain dying...


There is a thread about this in another forum (Adventure maybe?). If I remember correctly, the individual (possibly others) was concerned that he didn't have the latest install of the fuel/air mapping software or something like that.

I haven't encountered anyone with an actual ECM failure either.

[The_Veg]

I can't speak for two wheels simply because I haven't been riding long enough, but I've seen countless cars with black boxes make it way past 100K. I've had two of them make it to 250K. One blew the head gasket at that point, the other still ran but was tired enough for me to be sufficiently motivated to replace it. I had a friend in college who got an '83 Civic to 400K. It was still a perfectly fine car at that point but he felt the need for change and sold it.
I do have a co-worker who rides a '76 R75/6 that has lived to 350K. He claims it has never been in the shop for anything major. He also admits that he has never even touched the carbs and I suspect that if he did it would get better mileage but that's another story. The bike looks like sh!t and these days he only rides to the bar and back, but it's still getting him there.

[rocketman]

There is a thread about this in another forum (Adventure maybe?). If I remember correctly, the individual (possibly others) was concerned that he didn't have the latest install of the fuel/air mapping software or something like that.

I haven't encountered anyone with an actual ECM failure either.

Oh god, what a scream! No offence meant, but as a system admin for high end UNIX database servers who’s responsible for ensuring they have latest and greatest operating patches, etc. the idea of having to leave work only to worry about whether my Bike has the latest software patches just strikes my funny bone!
Maybe that’s part of the reason I enjoy older “simpler” machines, after a day of working with my systems I find it refreshing to ride something that is the total opposite of all that high end technology.

That makes two times today reading this forum that I’ve suffered the dreaded “nose coffee” blowout!
Ha Ha!

RM "meaning no offense, I just found it really funny"

[kbasa]

Some bikes, (ducs, triumphs and aprilias, IIRC) allow for installation of new maps. As you do things like add a factory pipe, you can install a new map and realize the full benefit of your enhancement.

I don't believe any of the BMWs allow for such a system.

I've heard that the new Power Commander III will work with oilheads, which means you could easily install a new map if you put a pipe in. You might also be able to solve nagging surging problems (if you have them) once and for all.

As an interesting note on custom mapping and surging, Factory Pro is right around the corner from me here in Marin. They're not producing a new chip for the S because they've found that each bike seems to be different in the way it responds to the chip. Some surge, some don't.

[Motorman]

I saw this thread and it reminded me of some of the Pre digital conversations about the same thing in the 70's. :) I have had 2 airheads and now a brick K75RT. ALL have served me well. I have had the FI system gunk up on my K (my own damn fault) and got it running by replacing hoses and a fuel pump. The injectors cleaned themselves out with plenty of fresh gas and fuel additive cleaner. On the other hand one of my airheads popped a diaphram on a ride away from home. I managed to limp back but it wasn't pretty or fun.

Point is EVERY mechanical device can fail. If you are worried about failures maintain them as best you can. No one or nothing can protect you from every failure. It all comes down to deciding if you are going to live life or fear it. We all pays our $ and takes our chances. I refuse to hide in the house to aviod problems. :p

[GlobalRider]

Point is EVERY mechanical device can fail. If you are worried about failures maintain them as best you can. No one or nothing can protect you from every failure. It all comes down to deciding if you are going to live life or fear it.

Exactly! Preventative maintenance and ease of roadside repairability make all the difference as to whether you enjoy your vacation tour not wrenching or end up at the side of the road waiting longer than you have to because the system isn't roadside repairable. BTW, I worry more about electrical systems. Mechanical stuff is pretty straight forward.

Talking about fear factor, it amazes me how many people I come across that are afraid to travel to foreign countries because they don't speak the language or because they are worried about the unexpected such as culture, customs, etc.

Organized motorcycle tours are just an example. Why would I want to go to a foreign country and end up hanging out with people just like me for the next two weeks. I want to mingle with the local riders and non-riders and experience all my personalized tour can offer. Besides, riding in a pack isn't fun.