K&N Air Filters p Interesting Data

[Bobmws]

This is the best data I've seen to support a theory I've heard for quite a long time. No K&N for me, thankyou very much!
Don E & Data will appreciate this.
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

[tommy]

hi Bob - we have had that report on one of the Jeep forums i visit for a month or so - i have also wondered about the hype with K&N filters - i bought into K&N - had a very expensive set up on my Miata - also on a couple of dirt bikes running K&N - no more - i got the report just in time because i was going to spent 275 bucks for a K&N set-up for my jeep that following week-in - I think the report was for real - i haven't see anyone come foward & say hey - this is a fake -

[tommy]

my miata

[paulsibek]

A filter cannot both filter out all particles and be a performance high capacity filter.

The AC Delco is one extreme and the race car without any air filter is the other.

[Cliffy777]

very interesting. i replaced the filter in my last bike with a K&N cuz i figgured what they said was true, but i also talked to a friend who manages the local NAPA store and he claimed a marked improvement in his gas milage in his car with a K&N and told me it was worth spending the $$ on EVEN THOUGH he was not able to get me one for the bike.
i will think twice before adding one to the sno queen.

[sgborgstrom]

From the ibmwr.org tech archives:

http://ibmwr.org/ktech/dyno/index.shtml

Steve

[deilenberger]

From the ibmwr.org tech archives:

http://ibmwr.org/ktech/dyno/index.shtml

Steve


For a bit more and some more interesting (at least to me..) dyno runs, I can recommend my personal website: http://www.eilenberger.net - poke around there may be some things of interest for you there. ;)

[Gnome]

So you have heard that the K&N may not be catching all the dirt? You have seen some "big test" results. Remember test results can be tweaked to come out the way one wants them to.

There are certain things one must do to keep the K&N air filter at peak performance.

First of all,read the instructions.
Purchase the K&N filter cleaner,and oil spray,and use them. That will keep your filter working properly.
Occaisionaly inspect the filter,and clean it if you need to.

I've been using K&N filters for a while now,and I have had nothing but good results.
No complaints here. :thumb

[deilenberger]

So you have heard that the K&N may not be catching all the dirt? You have seen some "big test" results. Remember test results can be tweaked to come out the way one wants them to.

Not to be argumentative - but you are absolutely correct, and IMHO K&N has tweaked their results to what they would like you to believe.

I have no idea what you mean by "big test" results. The results I've seen of K&N filtering capability vs other filter mediums have been done with no discernable bias that I can see - and the ones that started off this thread certainly look unbiased to me - they weren't picking on K&N - they were measuring filter capacity and filter ability. If the results don't please you, I supposed you're free to believe there was a bias - but I don't see one.

And - since I've run my own tests on K&Ns effect on power made by BMW's, I see no reason to bother with what to me appears questionable filtering capabilities.


There are certain things one must do to keep the K&N air filter at peak performance.

First of all,read the instructions.
Purchase the K&N filter cleaner,and oil spray,and use them. That will keep your filter working properly.
Occaisionaly inspect the filter,and clean it if you need to.

I've been using K&N filters for a while now,and I have had nothing but good results.
No complaints here. :thumb

The fact that you've used them for a "while now" doesn't make them good. It just means any damage they've caused isn't evident YET. I'd be curious to see the results of an oil analysis on the engine you're using them on. If the filter is allowing dirt to bypass this is quickly evident in an oil analysis.

Again - since I can see no advantage to a K&N filter over a stock paper filter, I see no reason to be bothered with them (including the cleaning/oiling/etc).

[Brownie]

Fellow Brickphiles...........IMHO it is VERY tempting to get all that air flow thru the engine for more power, etc. I know there are several "Gurus" out there that have done some serious investigation on the effect of "particles" getting into the engine.

I'm sure K & N relies on the fact that MOST of us don't have a clue has to what happens to these particles as they enter the combustion space and get ground up by cams, followers, and get jammed into seals. The engineers talk microns.......trap everything you possibly can!!!!!!


Great thread :p bring it on!!!!

[Brownie]

Just checked out link provided by Bob.........how does THIS # grab ya-

20 GRAMS of dirt passed thru the K & N in the test....yikes that is NOT good folks, diesel or yer Beemer, eh?

[Bobmws]

[QUOTE=Shep Brown]Fellow Brickphiles...........IMHO it is VERY tempting to get all that air flow thru the engine for more power, etc. Big snip QUOTE]

Your stock BMW filter provides more airflow than your motor can use. Roll up through Don E.'s post for a link that proves that on a dyno.

[roadcrave]

Air filtration RESEARCH of the K@N brand, seems suspicious, id like to see other testing agencies results before I would be sold on this one research artical...matthew

[Gnome]

Ok,Ok I give!
You all have given some very good points on the K&N airfilter. But ya know what? IF you ride on gravel or dirt roads or very dusty areas,don't use K&N.

Does that make sense? Slap me if I need it deilenberger :stick

[sgborgstrom]

Air filtration RESEARCH of the K@N brand, seems suspicious, id like to see other testing agencies results before I would be sold on this one research artical...matthew


So you're choosing to be "suspicious" of the test, why?
ISO 5011 Test:

The ISO 5011 Standard (formerly SAE J726) defines a precise filter test using precision measurements under controlled conditions. Temperature & humidity of the test dust and air used in the test are strictly monitored and controlled. As Arlen learned in attempting his own tests, there are many variables that can adversely affect filter test results. A small temperature change or a small change in humidity can cause the mass of a paper filter to change by several grams. To obtain an accurate measure of filter efficiency, it’s critical to know the EXACT amount of test dust being fed into the filter during the test. By following the ISO 5011 standard, a filter tested in Germany can be compared directly compared to another filter tested 5 years later in Rhode Island. The ISO 5011 filter test data for each filter is contained in two test reports; Capacity-Efficiency and Flow Restriction.

Steve

[deilenberger]

Air filtration RESEARCH of the K@N brand, seems suspicious, id like to see other testing agencies results before I would be sold on this one research artical...matthew

Actually - this is probably the 4th or 5th such test I've seen. This was the most inclusive (most filter types tested), but the basic results have been the same. K&N isn't really a "filter" - it's more like a sieve.

What I find a bit interesting/ironic is the K&N company itself is the owner of DynoJet - who makes the dyno I have access to, and they also own companies making products that do work - like "Power Commander."

[roadcrave]

the iso5011 does look real, so where do you buy the best air filter for our bikes??? matthew

[Bobmws]

the iso5011 does look real, so where do you buy the best air filter for our bikes??? matthew

Your local dealer has the best filter available, the stock one. Look at Don E's webpage Dyno tests.

[gmr1200gsa]

Ok so what does an air filter do .. it filters the air right.

Ok so when it filters the air it causes a restriction, and this causes higer fuel to air mixture.

Opening the iar filter elemet up so there is less restriction increases the milage but it decreases the filtering effect of the filter.

So what is it you want .. that is the question so if you want better milage and more wear and tear the get a K & N.

If you want to decrease your wear and tear and dont mind suffering with some bad milage then use the stock air filter.

KEEP in mind the engineers who develope the engine and the fuel system (including the air filter) are professionals and the do what is the best.

I will stay with the stock air filter Thank you ..

I want my engine to last even if i use an extra gallon of gas per every 1,000 Km's

$ 2.00 gas is cheaper than a $5,000.00 engine repair.

Well that is my thaughts

Geoff

[kbasa]

A K&N may flow more air than the stock filter, but the stock filter may already flow more than the engine can consume at peak rpm.