Should the US government contribute aid to the tsunami victims?

[kbasa]

Discuss.

[JetDoc]

I've already aired my views about this in another forum.

The United States Government has no business trying to be the savior of the world. There are too many pressing needs for our tax money right here in our own country.

Who is really going to get the $350 Million that President Bush just offered to give to tsunami relief? How many American teachers, cops, firemen and nurses could we hire for that same $350 Million? How many American schools, hospitals and homeless shelters could we build? How many unsafe bridges and tunnels on our national highways could be repaired? How many Senior Citizens could buy heat for their homes this winter?

On the other hand, I applaud any individuals, businesses, churches and other charitable organizations who wish to contribute to the relief of the tsunami victims, and would even support tax breaks for those charitable donations.

.

[dancogan]

I think aid to the disaster vicitms should come from all possible sources: government, corporate, private, charitable, whatever. Who is best positioned to dispense and administer the aid is a question we could debate for a long time. And there is no doubt that there is need right here at home. But this is a disaster of unprecedented magnitude, at least during my lifetime, and the urgent need is there. Perhaps even more important, is the ability to save lives by providing food and water quickly to the victims.

[BradfordBenn]

I am not going to wage an opinion either way. But I will say this, I think it is odd that the US government plans on spending $87,000,000,000 on the war in Iraq but originally only planned of $15,000,000 for relief.

But then again I think it is strange to spend $87,000,000,000 on the war in Iraq while people are homeless and hungry here in the US.

[BubbaZanetti]

no place helping the world, but every right to attack it wherever national interest serves??? sounds a little misguided to me........

[dlearl476]

I have a feeling the tune is gonna change this fall when the Nikes your kids want for school, the Nikes these folks build for 35¢/hour, cost 3 times as much money. We HAVE to help these people, not only is it the right thing to do, but our economy depends on it.

As for the money we're wasting in Iraq, I second giving it to teachers, schools, and the other domestic programs that need it.

[snoone]

We spend approx 1 billion a week to maintain our presence in Iraq and about 1 billion per month to maintain our troops in afganistan. That breaks down to a cost of about 175 million dollars per day. Shut the wars down for one day and that covers the cost plus some.

[JetDoc]

We spend approx 1 billion a week to maintain our presence in Iraq and about 1 billion per month to maintain our troops in afganistan. That breaks down to a cost of about 175 million dollars per day. Shut the wars down for one day and that covers the cost plus some.

OK, so you're saying that if we don't feed, shelter or protect our troops on the ground in Iraq and Afganistan, and in the air above, then we can pay the bills for tsunami relief... I Don't Think So!

[snoone]

Nope, just making the point that we are spending enormous amounts of money in Iraq and the 300 million for tsunami relief is a drop in the bucket in comparison to what we spend daily to maintain our troops.. I didnt say that spending the money in iraq was unnecessary nor to stop supporting our troops.

When the American people finally realize that 1 billion dollars a week has to come from somewhere, that it doesnt materialize out of thin air, and that the average Americans pocketbook will suffer in a major way there will be a fundemental change in the Republican leadership of this country that thought a 35 million dollar band aid was enough to pledge to the victims of the worst natural disaster to happen in my lifetime.

[username]

OK, so you're saying that if we don't feed, shelter or protect our troops on the ground in Iraq and Afganistan, and in the air above, then we can pay the bills for tsunami relief... I Don't Think So!

you are behaving like a character from dilbert...

for one day jetdoc. one freakin day. the military isnt going to dry up and blow away if it is unfunded for ONE DAY to the tune of 175 MILLION DOLLARS. do those number mean anything to you? if we didnt wage the war in iraq FOR ONE DAY, then we could do a hell of a lot more than offer relief to tsunami victims. we could try to do other zany things like:

- fund schools.
- create lots of college scholarships for all classes of americans.
- provide healthcare for lots of people that cant afford it, primarily children.
- fund research for alternative energy.
- build several windfarms.
- invest in nuclear technology.
- fund reasearch for more efficient vehicles.
- bribe congressman to pass new legislation that would allow the government to negotiate lower drug prices with suppliers.

this is just with the cash. imagine having our diplomats free to put pressure on iran and north korea regarding their nuclear program. imagine having the CIA/NSA resources free to hunt down terrorists and actually kill/catch them. imagine having troops available to deploy to these regions of the world and really rattle a sabre to help the diplomats.

jetdoc - youre out there on this one. even guys like dick cheney are kind enough to realize that we need to help these people. when dick cheney seems nicer than you, you're off the deep end, or youre a troll.

let's hope you're just trolling, because if you're not, you're really scary.

[kbasa]

A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money.

[JetDoc]

you are behaving like a character from dilbert...

for one day jetdoc. one freakin day. the military isnt going to dry up and blow away if it is unfunded for ONE DAY to the tune of 175 MILLION DOLLARS. do those number mean anything to you? if we didnt wage the war in iraq FOR ONE DAY, then we could do a hell of a lot more than offer relief to tsunami victims. we could try to do other zany things like:

- fund schools.
- create lots of college scholarships for all classes of americans.
- provide healthcare for lots of people that cant afford it, primarily children.
- fund research for alternative energy.
- build several windfarms.
- invest in nuclear technology.
- fund reasearch for more efficient vehicles.
- bribe congressman to pass new legislation that would allow the government to negotiate lower drug prices with suppliers.

this is just with the cash. imagine having our diplomats free to put pressure on iran and north korea regarding their nuclear program. imagine having the CIA/NSA resources free to hunt down terrorists and actually kill/catch them. imagine having troops available to deploy to these regions of the world and really rattle a sabre to help the diplomats.

jetdoc - youre out there on this one. even guys like dick cheney are kind enough to realize that we need to help these people. when dick cheney seems nicer than you, you're off the deep end, or youre a troll.

let's hope you're just trolling, because if you're not, you're really scary.

OK, I'll play your silly game, but YOU go tell the guys with all the guns and bombs that they ain't gonna get paid this month... And remember that they have families to feed and bills to pay just like you and I.

Talk about scary... Guess who's the fool who thinks we can just shut off the tap or divert funds that are already committed to supporting out troops in Iraq. I never said that sending our troops into Iraq in the first place was the right thing to do, but now that they are there, we can't just pull the plug. Right or wrong, that money is already spent and we ain't gonna to get it back.

[paulsibek]

nuance...

[username]

OK, I'll play your silly game, but YOU go tell the guys with all the guns and bombs that they ain't gonna get paid this month... And remember that they have families to feed and bills to pay just like you and I.

Talk about scary... Guess who's the fool who thinks we can just shut off the tap or divert funds that are already committed to supporting out troops in Iraq. I never said that sending our troops into Iraq in the first place was the right thing to do, but now that they are there, we can't just pull the plug. Right or wrong, that money is already spent and we ain't gonna to get it back.

oh my. i apologize for confusing the issue. i dont for one second think that you can just cut funding for one day like that. but i am arguing that you could reduce our military expenditures in a way that would not reduce our effectiveness, and use that money to help people in need.

also, to be clear, you make a hyperbolic statement about telling the guys with guns and bombs that they dont get paid this month. actually, if this plan were feasible, we'd tell them they were getting docked one day's pay, not a whole month's. maybe things seem so hard to you because you make them harder than they are? this is like saying you dont want to ride to the store for milk because you dont want to go all the way the pittsburgh. goofy.

i think we could squeeze 1/365th out of the military budget and not reduce our national security, pay to the soldiers, nor our combat effectiveness. i think we could use this money at home, for ourselves, or abroad for others, and we wouldn't have to bomb anyone. argue against that.

[JetDoc]

oh my. i apologize for confusing the issue. i dont for one second think that you can just cut funding for one day like that. but i am arguing that you could reduce our military expenditures in a way that would not reduce our effectiveness, and use that money to help people in need.

also, to be clear, you make a hyperbolic statement about telling the guys with guns and bombs that they dont get paid this month. actually, if this plan were feasible, we'd tell them they were getting docked one day's pay, not a whole month's. maybe things seem so hard to you because you make them harder than they are? this is like saying you dont want to ride to the store for milk because you dont want to go all the way the pittsburgh. goofy.

i think we could squeeze 1/365th out of the military budget and not reduce our national security, pay to the soldiers, nor our combat effectiveness. i think we could use this money at home, for ourselves, or abroad for others, and we wouldn't have to bomb anyone. argue against that.

In 1968, when I was young and stupid and immortal, as we all are at 18 years old, I stood up alongside several thousands of my fellow citizens and raised my hand in a pledge to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

For that, I was given clothing, food, a place to sleep, and the opportunity to sling a rifle over my shoulder and walk around the perimeter of an Air Force base in the jungle for 12 hours every night, with hundreds of enemy solders waiting for their chance to kill me and my buddies, and to drive the foreign invaders (us) from their lands. For this, I was compensated the princely sum of $120 dollars per month. After I survived for a year in this place, I returned to my home, where I was spat upon and called "Baby Killer" by long haired teenagers who didn't have a clue as to what was really going on...

Sure, over the years things have improved. Better food. Better clothing (if you like tan with green and brown splotches.) Better guns, and some of them even have body armor now, but the young men (and women) of our country are still being asked to stand up on foreign soil and kill or be killed in the name of defending the Constitution of the United States.

How do we reward them? Sure, pay is better than it was nearly 40 years ago, but it still doesn’t pay enough for a young man to raise a family without food stamps. And what of your friends and neighbors who have been called up to serve in the National Guard and Reserves? We send them off to war without the proper equipment, and we make promises that will never be kept, just like it has been in every war this country has fought since 1776.

And now, you suggest that it’s OK to take more money away from our troops to feed and shelter other people who may or may not appreciate the sacrifice our people have made to come to their rescue.

As another forum subscriber so rightly said in his post, “The money has to come from somewhere…” But why, in the richest country in the world, does it all have to come from the US Government?

I still believe that the people of the United States and other countries of the world can and will provide everything that is necessary for the relief of the tsunami victims without the United States Government going deeper into debt, and spending more money that is not theirs to spend.

Nuff said. I’m done.

[username]

i'll check on this, but i'm pretty sure that the tsunami victims didnt volunteer for "tsunami duty." they are actual victims and we should help them.

[jdcoffman]

I applaud anyone who is able to give either of themselves or finacially. If you give money to whom do you give it to? The red cross? I really have my doubts about the efficiency of that organization. If you really care send your own money, don't send mine in the way of taxes. The cost of our troops in Iraq and Afganistan does that take into account we would be paying our military even if we were not at war? Would we not still be spending money on readiness exercises? To be sure the resevist would not be on the full time payrolls but the rest of the military would be.

[JetDoc]

I applaud anyone who is able to give either of themselves or finacially. If you give money to whom do you give it to? The red cross? I really have my doubts about the efficiency of that organization. If you really care send your own money, don't send mine in the way of taxes. The cost of our troops in Iraq and Afganistan does that take into account we would be paying our military even if we were not at war? Would we not still be spending money on readiness exercises? To be sure the resevist would not be on the full time payrolls but the rest of the military would be.

While personnel costs do go up slightly over a peacetime army the big costs of any war are for support and maintenance.

In the modern Army, it's expensive to kill people and blow things up... Each time a soldier fires a shell from one of our tanks, that tank round costs several thousand dollars. The "Smart Bombs" that gave you the pictures you saw on TV during the initial phases of the war can cost more than a million bucks each! Even the average rifleman on the ground can burn up more than a hundred dollars worth of ammo during a days time.

The tanks, trucks and HumVees that our troops ride in need maintenance too, and they are wearing out much faster than they would if they were left parked in a parking lot at your local National Guard center. Not to mention the ones that have been damaged or destroyed by hostile fire and by accidents in the field. Our airplanes and helicopters are also getting more use, and costing more to maintain and operate than they ever would in peacetime.

Then there's the cost of transporting all the stuff our troops consume every day. Bombs and bullets, food, fuel and medical supplies... Everything has to be shipped in from the States or purchased from other suppliers. It all adds up to a huge chunk of money every day, and if we are to believe what we are told by our Government, it will continue this way for several more years. :(

[JetDoc]

Would I be wrong in suggesting that despite the high cost of a humanitarian relief effort, that we all benefit at the end?

Mike

Maybe not wrong, Mike, but where is the money going to come from? My argument is that the individual citizens, corporations, churches and charities of the United States and other countries of the world are fully capable of dealing with the tsunami disaster without the United States Government spending any more money that we don't have to spend.

We are pumping Billions of dollars into the war in the middle east with slim chance of ever seeing a return. Social Security will be bankrupt in your lifetime. Our nation’s highways and airports are crumbling in front of our eyes. Crime is up and our cities are laying off cops and firemen because they can't afford to pay them.

Our country exports less and imports more every year. Once upon a time, people were proud to see “Made in the USA” labels on the products they bought. We were the best in the world! Now we buy Japanese cars, Korean electronics, German Motorcycles (!) Our clothing is made in Indonesia (and will be again as soon as they clean the mud off the sewing machines) and our shoes are made in China. Our “American” cars and trucks are made from imported parts and Chrysler is a subsidiary of Mercedes-Benz. Even the John Deere tractor I bought a few years back had a Kawasaki engine in it.

Our National Debt is well into the Trillions of dollars, and now our Government is throwing more money (that we don't have) at another problem, and hoping it too will just go away.

How can we continue to be the "Richest Country in the World" if our Government is bankrupt and our currency worthless?

It's got to stop somewhere, because if it doesn’t, our country will.

[saab93driver]

[QUOTE

It's got to stop somewhere, because if it doesn’t, our country will.[/QUOTE]

Not a question of "if" but "when."

Because we are so hung up on the cheapest price and the highest wages we give MFN to a country on the other side of the world that has weapons and plans to destroy the US. In case you hadn't notice we don't make everyday things in the US anymore, the preinvasion is at Wally World where virutally every product for sale is made there. Not only are they the next big enemy of democracy, but we are funding it and nobody in power seems to notice or care, and neither do most other Americans.

As to the relief effort for the Tsunami, it's simply the right thing to do. My only reservation is control, or lack of, with regards to how the aid will get distributed.

[BubbaZanetti]

also, billions and billions of tax dollars have been spent really poorly since oh, i don't know, about january 20th, 2000, so it would be nice to see them spent on something good for a change..........

[Gnome]

The U.S. Government had no right giving money they took from me to a foreign government. Maybe I sound like a tight wad,but I have been to Thailand while in the Military. In Tailand I've seen American and European men walking down the street with little girls they just bought,so they can take them back to their room and rape them. Yes human lives really are bought and sold there. I figure the Tsunami might just be God's way of showing his diepleasure with that country.

I saw one American interviewed on T.V. last week. He was from Hawaii. The reporter asked him why he was in Thailand,and he said because of the white sand beaches,and the surf. Yeah,right pal! Tell that BS to someone else!

[username]

:rolleyes

[BubbaZanetti]

I figure the Tsunami might just be God's way of showing his diepleasure with that country.


i won't touch something that stupid with someone else's ten foot pole :jawdrop

[tommy]

Gnome - what you are saying about selling of the young might (is) true - but i think it belongs in a different thread than is one - you know you don't have to go all the way to Tailand for this practice - it's common in area's south of our border -

[James.A]

I think it is very important that we, as the most free and prosperous nation in all of human history, demonstrate that we will help the downtrodden and needful people of this world regardless of their religion or ethnicity. As a Republican, I support the president and would like to point out that in the context of the war on terror(WWIII if you like), tsunami refief $ is a drop in the bucket and would go a long way toward winning the hearts and minds of people who are taught that we are evil incarnate. Tsunami relief is the right thing to do morally, and the propoganda value of doing the right thing is worth the cost.

[rocketman]

Gnome - what you are saying about selling of the young might (is) true - but i think it belongs in a different thread than is one - you know you don't have to go all the way to Tailand for this practice - it's common in area's south of our border -

I gotta agree 100% with that sentiment, it is a common practice in many parts of the world, and hardy does justice to the people of the region. To suppose that because of the acts of very small minority the rest of population does not deserve our help is to take a very limited and narrow-minded view of the world. The Thai people, as well as many other cultures in that region are some of the friendliest and most heart warming that I have ever had the pleasure to have met, and I have lived in many countries and on four continents during my life. To expound an opinion of the many based on the actions of a few does an injustice not only to those being (wrongly) judged but also to the person expounding the opinion.

RM

[DLilah]

I think it is very important that we, as the most free and prosperous nation in all of human history, demonstrate that we will help the downtrodden and needful people of this world regardless of their religion or ethnicity.

I think that is a great point! All politics aside, I think it is very easy to miss the point sometimes. The people that were the victims of this terrible tragedy are people, like you and me, and deserve our compassion. Of course we can't expect the US government to do it all-we should also do whatever we can as individuals-but I am proud to be a citizen of a country that is willing to help those in need, wherever and whenever they need us. I, personally, cannot imagine the loss that these people have endured, especially all of the children :cry , and am glad my country is helping them.

[Gnome]

I just figure that if groups and individuals want to give, well that's fine. The U.S. government spends your tax dollars and gives you no say so.
A little over two-hundred years ago a war was fought over that. It is called Taxation without Representation,and it sucks.

There is nothing wrong with Charity,but this country is in debt big time. If you are in debt do you give $10,000 to the local charity?