Well meant,but, anxiety causing info

[henzilla]

A l-o-n-g comment on listening too much to other's opinions of road technical/difficulty levels...from friends to magazine articles.

We have been to most of the "have to ride" states with exception of the Adirondacks and the northeast states...next years plan. Been to NC,GA, SC ,TN,KY, W VA ( Thanks Ian for the Super Twisties route and others at last years National!) and everything on the way from TX all the western states except WA & OR. Arkansas & Missouri have always been fun and made for motorcycles on the twisty state roads. Done the Midwest and into Canada. Finally started documenting our mileage for fun and both have over 100K each on BMW's, more on all brands combined...low compared to some...but we are just getting rolling after I retired.

I recall the hype of the Dragon and 28 in NC/TN...Have ridden the area a few times and it's great. However, many folks told tales or their perception of how difficult and scary the area roads can be...Helen listened and was anxious to say the least, which caused her to worry needlessly her first pass down the Dragon three years ago.
She is a rider...she can outcorner and outhink a lot of other riders but is not testosterone driven and doesn't need to show her "superior" skills as some of my genetic makeup do..she is a rider. After the first time on the Dragon and surounding roads, she commented.."let's do that AGAIN!". And we did...
The only road that truly got my attention the first time was the Coronado Trail, the Devil's Highway/US 191 in AZ between Clifton and Alpine...It took me a while to get a rythym on that bad boy. I had not been "warned" at all when Chuck waved me by...I stopped in Alpine and said 'WHEW" :bow

This past week we crossed NM, CO for the 5th or 6th time,UT,WY,MT,ID, into Alberta and BC and back to TX. A quick and too short 6K adventure due to my brothers schedule. We took my older brother along on his first cross country trip to attend our nieces wedding in Glacier ,he was riding a Victory Visian. He had been told by the Cruiser crowd as well that he would struggle...he did fine...was tired as heck a few times from cornering a 900lb bike with his 250+ lb frame...but was fine. He growled at me a few times...but is already telling stories to his Cruiser buds. I never told him how technical the roads were...just to ride at his pace and have fun. He did see the curves coming on his GPS:laugh:doh

We rode Beartooth Pass leaving WY after many told her " So&So, one of the well known LD riders, won't ride that road. too many tight switchbacks". A older fellow on a Goldwing w/trailer was yakking about how steep it got past the Top of the World store...I asked him to keep his opinions to himself and not put worries into my groups heads. She got thru it and wondered what the deal was as she had a huge grin that wasn't going away.
Rode US 12/Lolo Pass the whole length and also wondered what the big deal was after many said it was really difficult. We rode many of the roads & passes throughout the multi state area ,rarey hitting any slab...if we could avoid it. She took off along UT 128 along the Colorado River canyon out of Moab one evening and was waiting for some time for us to roll up...wondered where the two old men had gone:heart Said she had to ease up as a testosterone powered pickup had to pass her when they realized it was a ...Woman... after she had passed them for creeping along way under the limit. Said they about went into the rocks in a curve...real men...anyways...back to the story...

Now to my point...I think:brow

She, and I, have come to realize difficulty is in the eyes of the handlebar holder...and to stop listening to others tales of dangers, it is their reality,their perception. When asked about the technical level of roads by others...we will not be negative or give scary feedback warnings:nono... Just ride and enjoy the road...ride your own ride and know your limitations. Maybe some of you will do the same to others and not cause unfounded anxiety to them.

We met up with some folks Sunday and overheard one telling the others how tight and technical Beartooth was to him and warned the others going thru in the next few weeks...he didn't know we had just returned from there...we just smiled at each other and said "really?"

[rcharvey6712]

I feel so much better now...
*chuckle*

:):):):):)

[SIBUD]

Couldn't agree more Steve.

Having ridden all of the roads you mentioned, you comments are spot on. Sometimes folks like to brag about how difficult the road was to make them seem like better riders.

Ride your own ride is always good advice. BTW did you ride up to the fire tower lookout on Beartooth? Fantastic views from the top. Hope to stop by there on the way home from Redmond.

Ride Well
Ride Often
Ride to :eat

[criminaldesign]

it's along the lines of non riding community tell us how dangerous bikes are and go into a story of their cousins cousins friend losing their life on a bike.

makes you roll yer eyes.

[AKBeemer]

A great point. I see the same thing up here often when people talk about the haul road to Prudhoe, or other area roads. Once I was on the ALCAN and getting a bite to eat at Nugget City at the intersection with the Cassiar Highway. I asked a couple of travelers coming off the Cassiar how the road was. The first were riding two-up on a Goldwing and said the road was in great shape; an easy ride with just a few areas of gravel. Next a few minutes later were two guys, each on a 1200GS. They were shaken and described the road as the worst they'd ever seen and pure hell. What to believe? Often the info provided by riders about a road is really info about the rider's comfort level and experience.

[Sue]

Your post made me laugh. A few years ago, the Great River Road Rally experienced 9 inches of rain.... Brian waited until the worst was over, and rode his 1996 RT to the rally on Saturday morning.

The half-mile gravel road to get into the site was under water in a few places - slimey throughout with a few deep puddles to keep it interesting. He just rode it at a pretty-good clip, and actually rode past two guys who were duck-walking their GS's through the worst parts.

He still laughs when he talks about it. It's all about the rider's comfort levels. :)

[henzilla]

A great point. I see the same thing up here often when people talk about the haul road to Prudhoe, or other area roads.

Also a run to Alaska is on our to do list...in two years at least!

That example of Goldwing vs GS'r is spot on! How funny

[henzilla]

BTW did you ride up to the fire tower lookout on Beartooth? Fantastic views from the top. Hope to stop by there on the way home from Redmond.


Didn't see the tower turnoff or any signage...still 6' walls of snow lining the way near the top along freshly laid asphalt. The ski lift at the top made us do a double take however as a couple were strapping on some skis along that valley.

A definite "will do that again" road !

[AKBeemer]

Also a run to Alaska is on our to do list...in two years at least!

That example of Goldwing vs GS'r is spot on! How funny

I have to provide another example...... Last week Annie and I rode to Deadhorse. The day we left a fellow who was staying on campus and riding a KTM 990 turned back because he found the road too daunting. I do not fault him for exercising good judgment and and getting out of a situation he could not handle, however, that same day Annie and I were passed by a guy on a Honda Interstate on the same road the KTM rider found to be too much. Imagine the variance in the descriptions these to guys would have given of the same road on the same day.

[kbasa]

Some people are great at sitting on motorcycles on a straight road holding the throttle open. They may not be especially good at actually getting a motorcycle around a corner.

Those folks think Deal's Gap is difficult or challenging or scary.

They should really avoid California. :ha

[jforgo]

it's along the lines of non riding community tell us how dangerous bikes are and go into a story of their cousins cousins friend losing their life on a bike.

makes you roll yer eyes.

I love to watch the crawling horror in those kind of people, when I describe (what doesn't at first sound like) cage fatalities I have personally seen, in minute excruciating detail (drip drip) etc. Just when their reality felt safe and superior......funny how they don't want to hear of the risks they run.

[TexanRT]

Some people are great at sitting on motorcycles on a straight road holding the throttle open. They may not be especially good at actually getting a motorcycle around a corner. Those folks think Deal's Gap is difficult or challenging or scary. They should really avoid California. :ha

I remember coming up behind these three guys on the dragon last year and they must have worked themselves up into a state of high anxiety. Their big cruiser bikes were lugging single file down the center of the road at about 15 MPH -- white knuckle grip on the bars. I doubled back to the beginning, turned around, and caught them again. I could tell these guys weren't accustomed to cornering, but I do give them for not being intimidated into speeding up by all the traffic passing them and riding their own ride. As slow as it was. :)

[Rad]

Often times it is more about the person than about the road.

Some people just love drama. They can package everything in their lives in it, work, family and even motorcycle roads. Cracks me up:lol

[tessler]

Some people are great at sitting on motorcycles on a straight road holding the throttle open. They may not be especially good at actually getting a motorcycle around a corner.

Those folks think Deal's Gap is difficult or challenging or scary.

They should really avoid California. :haFour years ago, I rented an RT and Burns and pals took me out to Livermore and up and down Mt. Hamilton, etc. The whole time I was thinking "holy #*@^, can this stuff just let up a bit!". But I loved every second of it.

Last Summer, back here in the East, I thought the Dragon was a lot of fun—more attention was paid, by me I think, to all the other traffic and the picture takers in the corners— but the Cherahola Skyway was fun with beautiful vistas.

[franze]

Four years ago, I rented an RT and Burns and pals took me out to Livermore and up and down Mt. Hamilton, etc. The whole time I was thinking "holy #*@^, can this stuff just let up a bit!". But I loved every second of it.

.

the back side of Mt. Hamilton to Livermore is some of the best riding in the Bay Area.
:thumb


http://elcid.smugmug.com/Other/Cali-4-corners/012/918791967_em2TS-M.jpg

http://elcid.smugmug.com/Other/Cali-4-corners/011/918791368_7ppLX-M.jpg

http://elcid.smugmug.com/Other/Cali-4-corners/009/918790686_Lf9kE-M.jpg

[criminaldesign]

And now for my well meant,but, anxiety causing info. haha

I had to make a u-turn a couple weeks ago heading up the west side of the mountain to Dolly Sods here in WV.

I went about 4 or 5 miles and the gravel road progressively turned to the darkside, littered with pot holes that couldn't be avoided, which was then accompanied by a washboard surface. I put up with it for a bit and then it was 'screw it'. More irritating than anything. Just wasn't fun. The sign wasn't lying at the beginning of the road.

I shall return to conquer when not loaded down and on a rear tire about to show cord.

[tessler]

And now for my well meant,but, anxiety causing info. haha

I had to make a u-turn a couple weeks ago heading up the west side of the mountain to Dolly Sods here in WV.

I went about 4 or 5 miles and the gravel road progressively turned to the darkside, littered with pot holes that couldn't be avoided, which was then accompanied by a washboard surface. I put up with it for a bit and then it was 'screw it'. More irritating than anything. Just wasn't fun. The sign wasn't lying at the beginning of the road.

I shall return to conquer when not loaded down and on a rear tire about to show cord.Houston, don't matter if you had to make the u-turn; you get bonus-points for making the right decision :thumb

(and double extra credit for making a rolling u-turn as opposed to a duckwalk u-turn :ha)

[Rapid_Roy]

Your post made me laugh. A few years ago, the Great River Road Rally experienced 9 inches of rain.... Brian waited until the worst was over, and rode his 1996 RT to the rally on Saturday morning.

The half-mile gravel road to get into the site was under water in a few places - slimey throughout with a few deep puddles to keep it interesting. He just rode it at a pretty-good clip, and actually rode past two guys who were duck-walking their GS's through the worst parts.

He still laughs when he talks about it. It's all about the rider's comfort levels. :)
:ha
That weekend, I passed a rider walking his K bike on the side of the road at about 25 mph with my 10 yo son on the back. I waved at him.

[Bob_M]

:ha
That weekend, I passed a rider walking his K bike on the side of the road at about 25 mph with my 10 yo son on the back. I waved at him.

Who was that guy?! Superman? Bubbazanetti? Walking at 25 MPH pushing a 600 Lb. motorcycle with your son on the back! :brow

[criminaldesign]

Jon, whats up my man? The bike was banging on that road, hurt the ears to hear it. Which ever line you went, BAMM!

[ANDYVH]

Many of us have probably heard a rider that crashed report "the bike just wouldn't make the turn!"

Almost as big a lie and myth as "hadda lay it down!"

No, the bike WILL make the turn, but the RIDER chose to not use the right techniques, or froze, or was not aware of, the techniques needed to make a motorcycle easily handle roads and conditions that some riders find impassable.

I have ridden my 94 RS on all sorts of surfaces, including sand, snow and ice. I have enjoyed many a twistie and the bike has NEVER communicated to me it could not do it. Its all the rider holding the grips that makes the difference.

[Rapid_Roy]

Who was that guy?! Superman? Bubbazanetti? Walking at 25 MPH pushing a 600 Lb. motorcycle with your son on the back! :brow

Alright poor phrasing. First of all, if he can't ride, my son won't be on the back.
:ha

What I should have said was :That weekend, myself and my son were going about 25 mph to 30 mph, when we passed a rider walking his K bike on the side of the road. I waved at him as we passed by.

[rocketman]

Who was that guy?! Superman? Bubbazanetti? Walking at 25 MPH pushing a 600 Lb. motorcycle with your son on the back! :brow

Just what I was thinking.... Ha Ha!

RM

[rocketman]

Many of us have probably heard a rider that crashed report "the bike just wouldn't make the turn!"

Almost as big a lie and myth as "hadda lay it down!"

No, the bike WILL make the turn, but the RIDER chose to not use the right techniques, or froze, or was not aware of, the techniques needed to make a motorcycle easily handle roads and conditions that some riders find impassable.

I have ridden my 94 RS on all sorts of surfaces, including sand, snow and ice. I have enjoyed many a twistie and the bike has NEVER communicated to me it could not do it. Its all the rider holding the grips that makes the difference.

I've been asked more than once how many times I've had to "lay it down". I used to try to explain.. now I just shake my head and move on...

And last weekend while out some old dude came up to me and told me about someone he knew who had been killed riding.. its actually been a while since that happened..

RM

[ultracyclist]

If you share with me how one rides on ice and snow, I will actually try it!

How do you control the pucker factor?

[haughty]

If you share with me how one rides on ice and snow, I will actually try it!

How do you control the pucker factor?DID a 100 miles from North of Dallas to Fairfield one late night sometime in the late 80's.
we had fresh powder and it was a rarity since it was dry! 6 to 8" of it, no one else had driven in it, so my tracks were the only ones till the next morning.. (my story and I am sticking to it!)
Really, was like on sand, just softer and because I was the only person to have driven it at the time (2 AM) I did not have to follow tracks , which would be a whole nuther ballgame.
It was fun, little pucker... had to warm the hands by the jugs of the girl (82 Virago) every couple of miles ...

[bogthebasher]

Now to my point...I think:brow

She, and I, have come to realize difficulty is in the eyes of the handlebar holder...and to stop listening to others tales of dangers, it is their reality,their perception. When asked about the technical level of roads by others...we will not be negative or give scary feedback warnings:nono... Just ride and enjoy the road...ride your own ride and know your limitations. Maybe some of you will do the same to others and not cause unfounded anxiety to them.


I agree with what you are saying with a couple of additions. I do warn of unusual safety hazards or weather (snow on road, rock slides, fog).

[Rapid_Roy]

I've been asked more than once how many times I've had to "lay it down". I used to try to explain.. now I just shake my head and move on...

And last weekend while out some old dude came up to me and told me about someone he knew who had been killed riding.. its actually been a while since that happened..

RM
It has been a while since you were killed riding?
:ha
2 can play at that game RM!
:wave

[ANDYVH]

I have been a MSF instructor going on 17 years now. Occassionally I still get the question "how do you teach your students to lay a bike down?"

I used to simply stare at the person asking the question, in the same manner one would respond to "why is the sky blue?" But now I explain there is no reason to teach a rider how to lay down a bike. The training we give help riders avoid getting into crash situations (there are no "accidents").

Hey, actually, I do know why the sky is blue. But anyway,......it never ceases to amaze me how many people still assume "laying a bike down" is some sort of proper technique!! I will say that most people that ask that question seem to be those that either don't ride or have never ridden, and the stereotype images of non-riders overtake the rational brain.

The idea is, to never get oneself into a scenario where lack of skills, poor judgement, panic, lack of training, lack of situational awareness (riding in the DOH zone) and other factors that combine to where the only result is panic over-reaction and whatever happens, happens. If you do MORE of the right things, you avoid ever being in a situation that could lead to a crash. If you have the proper training, you gain the knowledge to react properly and control the results, rather than just mashing on the rear brake, looking down, letting the bike "low side" under you, and then lie "hadda lay er down!" like it was some planned technique. LIAR!!

I once had a student report to me of a couple on a Wing that had to lay their bike down. A truck turned left in front of them. The guy laid it down in reaction to the sudden truck in his path (I don't get that either, a "sudden" truck in his path?). He and his wife suffered all sorts of road rash, his bike sustained damage from sliding on its side, but NOT from hitting the truck, as it never got to the truck!! So, he paniced, dumped his bike, injured his wife and himself, and lied that he had to lay it down. Yet, had he properly applied the brakes in a controlled high effort stop, he would have stopped WELL short, upright and unharmed. The brakes on the bike would have certainly stopped the bike in FAR LESS distance than it did sliding on its side.

[BCKRIDER]

1. I don't expect I will ever again ride Beartooth Pass. That's where my beloved K75RS died in a a collision with another rider. The REAL culprit was the road maintenance crew that did a superb job of cleaning the winter sand from all of the road except the one and only passing lane which started on a curve. When I crested the summit and saw this rider sliding out in his path toward me, I angled the bike a bit right and braked hard. I later learned that the rider with the problem was experienced in dirt, had a lot of road experience, didn't chop the throttle, counter-steered through the sand, and at exactly the wrong place his back tire hooked up with bare pavement sending his bike out in my lane.

If I had braked a little harder, we would probably both be dead from a head-on collision. If I had done anything else, including not slowing down because I was looking at the scenery, it would have just been a scary moment.

I'm curious if there were other accidents after mine in 2008 at that same location, the only passing lane on the Beartooth. I'm also curious if others using this road the past two years have encountered serious sand in that passing lane when the rest of the highway is pristine.

2. For competent sane riders, I think the big danger of riding roads like "the dragon" and other lesser known twisty roads, is not your competence but that of the sport bike riders coming toward you. If there testosterone takes them into your lane - or worse sliding across in front of you - what do you do?

[rocketman]

It has been a while since you were killed riding?
:ha
2 can play at that game RM!
:wave

Only 2? my how limited your thinking is.... :lol

well, as James Bond discovered you can only live twice and I got that over and done with in my Yut, now I'm mere ghost of my former self....the invincibility of death has its rewards....

RM

PS hope all is well with the "Silly Bean" !