ABS self test failure? It's the starter.

[Happy Wanderer]

Since I bought my old but hardly used '96 RT last year I have had problems with the ABS self test at start time. Two blinking lights after pushing the starter button. This common problem has been gone over many times in other threads and the first thing to check is always the battery. Check the ABS sensor gaps too. I, and I'm sure many others did both to no avail. Paul Glaves was right when he advised not only testing voltage drop at the starter and solenoid at start time, but also considering that starter drag might be the problem, not just the battery.

If your voltage drops down to less than 11 volts when the starter spins, sure, check the battery but don't replace it till you rule out the starter.

My original Valeo starter was part number D6RA55 and that starter is a troublesome piece of junk. The magnets came un glued at around 33,000 miles. I had the thing rebuilt at a cost of CDN $150. They used better epoxy and replaced the solenoid with a better one from Brazil. Well, I got a total of 3 weeks use last fall and two weeks use this spring (5,000 miles) or so and the magnets fell off again. Vibration or heat may cause the failure but bottom line is the design obviously sucks. I am not going to bother fixing it.

Instead I purchased a new Valeo starter from the good people at EuroMotoElectrics in Golden CO. Cost? USD $189 plus 10 bucks shipping. Arrived in three days. This replacement is Valeo part number D6RA75. Apparently these have some sort of brackets inside that hold the magnets in place better and the bad glue problems are resolved. I have also noticed the bendix gear is much longer and tapered better too. The old one is made in France and the new one is made in Poland. I could have sworn I bought a German bike! :scratch

The magnets dragging on the stator and jamming up the rotation of the starter draws a LOT of current and causes a big voltage drop thus causing the ABS self start test to fail. After replacing the starter, not only does the bike turn over much faster but the ABS test passes every time.


I realize Bosch has been busy pricing themselves out of reach in a LOT of markets they were in but I think going cheapo on the starters in BMW bikes was a huge mistake. No kick starters and bump starting requires one hell of a hill to succeed not to mention placing the battery terminals under the tank where you can't jump start the bike without terminal extensions and well, if your starter goes you are in a serious pickle!

I think I'll have to go back through Seattle again pretty soon and pick up my perfectly good BMW gel battery I left sitting behind a dumpster! I replaced it with an Odyssey PC680 and based on what I've read here I doubt I will regret it in any case.

[cycleman2]

Voltage drops across a positive cable can cause similar problems.

Another thing that I have found is that a bad positive cable from the battery to the solenoid can cause a bike to not start. The cable looks perfectly OK & is solidly attached but has something internal going wrong.

The easiest way to check if that is the problem is to check for a voltage drop across the cable. If you have any voltage drop across the cable replace it. Once it comes under load, ie: when you start the bike, it will not let the full voltage go to the starter. If you put a volt meter on this cable ( while you are trying to start the bike ) it will show something like 11 volts. Not enough to start & run the ignition. If you measure it with no load it will show just a 1/10 of a volt less or thereabouts from the full 12 volts. You think that its OK, but it isn't.

I once bought a new battery thinking it was the problem and it turned out to be the positive cable from the battery to the solenoid.

[PETDOC]

MJM,
I'm curious if your RT responded like my '04 GS. Close to 10,000 miles on the odometer I started having random and often well spaced events (days to weeks apart) where I'd go out for a ride and when I pushed the starter button my voltage (volt meter on dash) plummeted, my clock reset, and nothing happened. If I re-hit the starter the bike would usually start on the 2nd or 3rd try. I initially misdiagnosed it as a battery problem and replaced my (in retrospect perfectly good) Exide gel battery with a Panasonic AGM battery. A few weeks later same thing happened in the middle of a 500 mile ride after I'd stopped to fill up the gas tank. I knew via the voltmeter that the alternator was fine and assumed my new battery was also fine, so I assumed it was the starter. Bought a new starter from EuroMotoElectrics and am now at 45,200 miles without a hitch.
I have the original starter in a box, but have as yet to disassemble it, but I'm guessing a magnet came loose.
Dave

[sdpc2]

and of course it was a bad starter.......


MJM,
I'm curious if your RT responded like my '04 GS. Close to 10,000 miles on the odometer I started having random and often well spaced events (days to weeks apart) where I'd go out for a ride and when I pushed the starter button my voltage (volt meter on dash) plummeted, my clock reset, and nothing happened. If I re-hit the starter the bike would usually start on the 2nd or 3rd try. I initially misdiagnosed it as a battery problem and replaced my (in retrospect perfectly good) Exide gel battery with a Panasonic AGM battery. A few weeks later same thing happened in the middle of a 500 mile ride after I'd stopped to fill up the gas tank. I knew via the voltmeter that the alternator was fine and assumed my new battery was also fine, so I assumed it was the starter. Bought a new starter from EuroMotoElectrics and am now at 45,200 miles without a hitch.
I have the original starter in a box, but have as yet to disassemble it, but I'm guessing a magnet came loose.
Dave

[Happy Wanderer]

MJM,
I'm curious if your RT responded like my '04 GS. Close to 10,000 miles on the odometer I started having random and often well spaced events (days to weeks apart) where I'd go out for a ride and when I pushed the starter button my voltage (volt meter on dash) plummeted, my clock reset, and nothing happened. If I re-hit the starter the bike would usually start on the 2nd or 3rd try. I initially misdiagnosed it as a battery problem and replaced my (in retrospect perfectly good) Exide gel battery with a Panasonic AGM battery. A few weeks later same thing happened in the middle of a 500 mile ride after I'd stopped to fill up the gas tank. I knew via the voltmeter that the alternator was fine and assumed my new battery was also fine, so I assumed it was the starter. Bought a new starter from EuroMotoElectrics and am now at 45,200 miles without a hitch.
I have the original starter in a box, but have as yet to disassemble it, but I'm guessing a magnet came loose.
Dave

Just guessing of course but I'd give odds the starter is at fault. Especially if the part number ends in 55. One way to tell is to measure the voltage at the solenoid and push the button. Then measure the voltage after the solenoid right on the starter and push the button again.

If a large voltage drop is across the solenoid, it may be just that part but if the drop is the same at both points the starter is likely dragging down the voltage due to excess current draw. This might be your bendix is fouled up with clutch dust and is sticking or more likely with the older Valeo starters, one of the magnets has let go and is jamming up the stator.

Yes, mine also would refuse to start and then suddenly it would go again, but turned slowly. I'd try like ten times in a row and no go. Wait ten minutes and try again and suddenly or on the 2nd or 3rd try it would start again. In short, it was random.

[PETDOC]

Yes, mine also would refuse to start and then suddenly it would go again, but turned slowly. I'd try like ten times in a row and no go. Wait ten minutes and try again and suddenly or on the 2nd or 3rd try it would start again. In short, it was random.

Mine was like there was someone controlling a switch. I would hit the starter and nothing, not even a click; just zeroed out the clock. Subsequent attempts to start were either nothing again or a completely normal start up.

[ragtoplvr]

actually Valeo makes a pretty good starter, and I can assure you that lots of other brands have had magnet troubles too. Recently improved adhesives make the later ones pretty good.

In the early to mid 90's everyone had magnet adhesive problems.

And the better solenoid from Brazil is not really better, but it is a good solenoid, as good as the OE one. Weak batteries and or broken magnets kill solenoids.

Rod

[ANDYVH]

I think the low voltage thresehold of the ABS II system is 10 volts. So, even with a good fresh battery, and a brand new starter, a cold morning alone can cause enough voltage drop at first start to trigger an ABS fault.

I have been riding the same 94 R1100RS here in Wisconsin (many cold mornings) for 16 years, and I have had many a cold start/low voltage start trigger a "soft fail" on the ABS. I have never done any adjustment of the speed sensors, so I would not expect that to ever be an issue, unless someone has mucked it up.

I rebuilt my Valeo starter with the original starter and an ebay donor, mixing parts and replacing ground up magnets from the two. I cleaned up the magnet housing and reglued the magnets with JB Weld as the epoxy. So far, three seasons and the starter voltage at startup has not been an issue.

Three years ago though, I bought a small Battery Tender to keep my bike plugged in when it sits a day or two. Keeping the batteryt fresh and active does wonders for battery life and cranking power. Don't expect your battery to do it all the time without a bit of charger backup.