Input spline went kaput!

[cat0020]

I havn't read everything I could find about splines on ADVRider site, but coming to a traffic light yesterday morning, my input spline on my 2002 R1150RS with 287XX miles went kaput. I could get into every single gear in the transmission, but no forward power went clutch has been let out.

I wonder if this would be a good time to replace my clutch to a Touratech ceramic cluth?

Maybe have BMW replace the transmission under warranty as well?

How many oilhead owners have had their spline fail at any point?

:dunno :dunno :dunno

[subvet]

Sorry to hear it.

Oilhead spline failures are well documented/discussed on the Sport Touring site. Sounds as though you may have a similar problem to a recent posting over there.

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=436161&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=7&fpart=1&vc=1

Good luck with the fix.

[Pete43011]

Two failures so far for my wifes '99 R1100S. First at 24K, second at 42K. BMW fixed both. I'm trying to get them to comment on how many more we'll get fixed free. (Probably a waste of time)!

[cat0020]

Two failures so far for my wifes '99 R1100S. First at 24K, second at 42K. BMW fixed both. I'm trying to get them to comment on how many more we'll get fixed free. (Probably a waste of time)!

Do you know which part failed and why? did both incident involve the same part that failed? or did different part failed on your wife's R1100S??

What did they replace when they fixed it, both times?

[Pete43011]

Both the clutch and the input shaft were replaced- both times. Apparently one eats the other so it's difficult to say what "failed". First one was attributed to bad heat treating of something. Second one kind of a head scratcher. My personal theory is that there is a subtle alignment problem- engine to transmission on this bike. I had a '94 1100RS that made it nearly 80K before replacement by new bike and no input shaft issues. Dealer and I are thinking an inspection in about another 10K may be interesting
Also- albeit we were not out of pocket anything in either case (unless you count 300 mile trips with the truck), I wonder whether BMW truly paid 100% for both instances. We have an awesome dealer!

[cat0020]

Pete,
Thanks for the input, I will wait to see if I get a chance to take a look at the damage myself once the dealer opens up my transmission.

I will probably put in a Touratech ceramic clutch if this whole proceeding is covered under warranty. Ceramic clutch should last the life time of the bike, since it is designed to be used in the desert on a GS, with lots and lots of clutch slipping.

[stinger]

My 2001S did the same thing along with its clutch. BMW replaced it under warranty and I took out an extended warranty. One year and 10,000 miles later deja vou all over again. Replaced the entire Xmission this time and everything else in there,rode it for a thousand miles, didn't like the way it was shifting and traded it in for a 2004S. Have ridded Beemers for 25yrs. At this point I'll never own one that isn't under warranty.

[cat0020]

Stinger,

Could you give more specifics, as to how many miles does your R1100S has when the problem first happend?

What was replaced under warranty when it first happend?

What failed the second time around?

Were you given any explaination why it failed either time of failure?

[stinger]

The bike had 10,000 miles on it when I lost all the gears. It had 20,000 when it happened again. Unfortunately I gave all the paper work to the dealer when I traded it in. I do remember that the tranny was repaired and a new spline was put in. The clutch was repaired as was everything they could repair rather than replace. The second time around I had the work done by a former master BMW mechanic who has his own shop as I was now under an extended warranty. He was able to get a new tranny out of the powers that be. No one had a reason for the failures. I was told that it had the look of someone who wheelied the bike... that's how worn it was. At any rate after another couple of hundred miles my mechanic and I decided it had the potential of having a 'fatal flaw' and since the extended warranty would not repair the same thing more than once and two shots at no gearing in a nanosecond was enough for me I traded stinger in (yellow/black special edition) However the dealer traded out the fairing for me so I still have a 'stinger' edition S!!! So far with 13,000 miles (and a 3yr warranty) no problems.
FYI I have heard of MANY pre 2 spark oil heads with this problem!!!! Good luck

[kbasa]

I had 36K on my S when I sold it.

No problems. :dunno I beat that thing like a rented mule too.

[cat0020]

Here are pictures of my failed input shaft spline on my 2002 R1150RS with 29000 miles on the odo.. no warning, not a gradual failure.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/cat2000/DSC02088.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/cat2000/DSC02095.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/cat2000/DSC02090.jpg

I think I'm going for the Touratech Ceramic clutch route.. anyone know if the R1150GS clutch would fit a R1150RS??

[bmwmick]

Cat,
Great pictures! Is there a slight indentation at the inboard edge of the damage on the input shaft?
I have seen two that looked like that. The last one was the one referred to in the MCN article that started this little thread.
I would VERY carefully measure the runout of your clutch disk (the smooth spring part just outside the spline hub) and the outer egde of the clutch basket itself. The damage sorta indicates the clutch was wobbling a little and that might be what took out the splines. It would NOT take much wobble to 'toast' it.
Good luck,

[dlearl476]

>Maybe have BMW replace the transmission under warranty as well?

:brow Good one!

[kbasa]

>Maybe have BMW replace the transmission under warranty as well?

:brow Good one!

36K with 36 months. He's under the limit for either one of them. If he's a little over, a sympathetic dealer may be willing to help. How good is your relationship with your dealer?

[cat0020]

My local dealer is trying to source a new transmission from BMW NA, if no transmission is available, they will rebuild my existing transmission at no cost to me.

I will be outting a Touratech ceramic clutch plate to replace the OEM one.

[bmwmick]

Have you measured the runout yet? Even with a new tranny and a new clutch friction disk, if the cutch basket has runout, it's gonna fail again.
I guess if the dealer has the bike, it's not gonna get done.

HTH,
Mick

[PGlaves]

Excellent pictures. I blew the photo of the input shaft up and took a close look. It certainly looks like the worn portion of the shaft has worn to a slightly barrel shape. I've seen this pattern on several K75 input shafts when the bikes had eaten one or two spline sets in low miles, and in which replacing the bellhousing cured the problem, allowing high miles with no clutch issues thereafter. This appears to be an angular misalignment problem - that is, the centerline of the input shaft at some slight angle to the centerline of the clutch basket/output shaft (which are presumably the same). It is possible (as Mick suggests) that the clutch basket does not align square with the output shaft, even though the shaft centerlines are parallel and exactly match. First check is for runnout (fore and aft, or wobble) on the clutch carrier. If that checks true that is bad news because the other possible cause is that the transmission and engine case don't bolt together square, with the shafts aligned. And on the Oilheads, (unlike the K75/100 bikes) there is no separate bellhouwing to replace to cure the problem.

Paul Glaves