Insurance question

[exharleyscott]

I am putting my pennies together to do a track day event this summer, and was wondering if my insurance company will cover me and the bike in case of a problem? I heard from a friend that drag racing street cars at the track could be bad. In fact he has heard through his club that some tracks are selling finish line photos to some insurance companies.Has any one had any experiance or information on this. :dunno

[lorazepam]

There is a difference between racing and riding a track day. A track day is not competition, if anything it is a rider skills course. I dont see why you would have any problems with insurance. If you are planning on coming to the National Rally, save the pennies and check your ON for news of an awesome chance of riding a primo track! :thumb

[JetDoc]

There is a difference between racing and riding a track day. A track day is not competition, if anything it is a rider skills course.

Yes, but while on the track you are not operating on a public highway... Technically, you are riding "off road." Your insurance may exclude such operations and won't cover any damage sustained during such an event. Check your policy and ask your insurance agent to be sure.

Ride Safe!

[BradfordBenn]

Yup, I would say call your insurance company. I checked with mine and their answer was as long as it was a training and not racing I was covered.

[Cliffy777]

Almost positive you will get a yes, but you better call in with the question. Emphasize that it is training not racing (geee- did someone else suggest that??).

[lkchris]

You can call in if you want, but it is in writing in your policy. You should read it.

My take: unless your "training" is MSF, it's racing.

[lorazepam]

A race involves competition, and a track day is not competition. At least not official competition. You recieve instruction on how to ride, therefore it is instruction on a closed course.

[RTRandy]

I think "Track day" might be a stretch as far as insurance is concerned though I hope I'm wrong. Except for the indoor class room part and the "Round Robin", the excercise where you break up into small groups and follow behind the instructor at warm up speeds, everyone is trying to get around that thing as fast as they can. I know, cause I'm always getting passed. :cry

I don't think I've been to a track day where at least someone hasn't gone skidding off the track. Surely the insurance companies are wise to this. You might as well call them up and say you're buying a Hyabusa just to deliver pizza.

I'm picking up a new Suzuki SV650S this week mainly to have for track days since it's easy to turn and can't be more than the 5k to replace. I can't wait and would love to hear the answer on insurance.

[YB in IN]

There is a difference between racing and riding a track day. A track day is not competition, if anything it is a rider skills course. I dont see why you would have any problems with insurance. If you are planning on coming to the National Rally, save the pennies and check your ON for news of an awesome chance of riding a primo track! :thumb

Would you perhaps be speaking of Mid-Ohio?

[lorazepam]

It is possible that it is mid Ohio, but remember that bike week is the same time as the rally ;)

[wanderer]

OK I'll TRY to answer this. First, I have 20 years as an agent with the largest auto insurer in the U.S. Second, I ride (obviously). Third, you guys don't really think you can B.S. your way out of what really happened do you? ...{Vehicle#1 was proceeding north around left downhill hairpin (turn #3) when he lost traction and lowsided. Vehicle came to rest 765 feet from the tarmac. Insured estimates his speed to be approximately 25mph.}... :D Claim form question #2. What was the location of the accident Huuuummmmmm?? I doubt you can imagine the variety of stories I have heard. (LEO's will say exactly the same thing.) They usually start with I have a question. What if.......? AND we have extensive training in detecting B.S. (It's called FRAUD.) Before I entered this discussion I reread our auto policy cover to cover. I don't have a bike policy at home but I'm quite sure they are the same other than a few paragraphs (and those don't relate to track days they relate to medical benefits mostly) and remember cars have "track day" also. So I believe the policies are the same on this subject. I don't BELIEVE any major insurance company in the U.S. varies on this much. You should ask and trust your agent. They make their living trying to help honest people with their insurance. You pay us to provide you with information on stuff like this. There is no referrence about racing or track days in the policy. Therefore I feel it's safe to say most companies will cover the damage. DO NOT BELIEVE ME, ASK. Here's the skinny on why insurance works that way. None of us would ever be able to get a loan from a bonified financial institution if the insurance industry could say "we won't cover that particular claim because the vehicle was being used 'improperly.' We're sorry (Mr. Banker) you lost your colateral and we said we would pay the actual cash value if the insured wrecked it but now we're not going to because of how they were operating it at the time of the claim." Insurance and banks just couldn't work that way.
So now for those of you following closey I'll bet you're saying... but the insurance company isn't going to buy me 5 bikes a year (yes I'm stretching) that I keep wrecking on "track day" while I'm "improving my skills." You're right they will pay and then your total driving history will be reviewed and your insurance company will decide to raise your rates, do nothing, or nonrenew your insurance depending on your individual driving and claims history. Wth some companies driving/riding courses reduce your premiums. With most companies wrecks raise your premiums. That should make sense to everyone. I also think if you are honest with yourself any riding instructor would strongly discourage you from riding so close to the limit of your ability that you have a significient chance of going over that line. Instructors don't encourage students to possibly injure or kill themselves, really bad for repeat business. I think that situation occurs with the rush and competitive spirit that shows up when 2 bikes occupy a proximate piece of turf. And finally some food for though. This is an exact quote from our policy.

#7 Concealment or Fraud.
There is no coverage under this policy if you or any other person insured under this policy has made false statements with the intent to conceal or misrepresent any material fact or circumstance in connection with any claim under this policy.

I seriously doubt you are going to come up with some "angle" that someone hasn't tried before and therefore the insurance company hasn't written into the policy. Tell the truth, ask questions, and DEMAND that your insurance agent do the same. :deal :deal

[Visian]

I seriously doubt you are going to come up with some "angle" that someone hasn't tried before and therefore the insurance company hasn't written into the policy. Tell the truth, ask questions, and DEMAND that your insurance agent do the same. :deal :deal

Good advice, and great post, Wanderer. (on-line tip: break your post into smaller paragraphs so that it is easier to read. That was nice, right?) :)

One of our Georgia club members balled up his K12RS at a CLASS track day held at Barber Motorsports. Reg told the guy the same thing. He said to make *sure* you tell the truth about the controlled conditions of the safety training that you were receiving and that you would have no problem.

Our member did that and was covered, however.... his insurance company did question him at *great length*... going as far as reading all the CLASS information and calling Reg Pridmore on the phone to assure that he was not engaged in a competitive event.

The truth is a powerful weapon. However, it seems prudent to check with *your* company first rather than wait to see if you need to afterward.

Ian

[BMWRich58]

OK I'll TRY to answer this. First, I have 20 years as an agent with the largest auto insurer in the U.S.

Well understood.

Now my question is::?????

How about an Insurance company selling a "one day/special event" premium/policy???
I know for a fact that an organization can purchase insurance for an Event/Show/Party... in short term,1-3 days or what ever need be,why not sell a policy like wise for use at a track..??..
At some race tracks,you have to sign a waiver form before you enter and use the facilitys, and in some instances not even be a participent, but to just enter a particular part of the track,like the pits.............
or maybe you can we just don't know.

[exharleyscott]

wanderer, great post, and thanks for your valued and informative input. I plan on contacting me company up front, but your information was very helpful.

[wanderer]

Visian:
Great criticism! If I'd stop writing novels on line it would help too. Thanks!

BMWRich58:
Good Q but I don't have an A. We don't sell that type of special event policies. The best source for that type of thing is an Independant Agent. i.e. NOT Farmers, Allstate, State Farm, American Family. Independant agents sell for many different companies and more or less specialize in commercial business. Typically that stuff wouldn't be available for an individual. Also those special event type things are usually for legal liability not wrecking bikes. The assumption is an individual carries an individual motorcycle policy.

ALL:
I brought home a bike policy today and here's the only section that seems to apply. (Kind of funny that. There is no comparable language in our auto policy.)

"section; when coverage does not apply:

THERE IS NO COVERAGE WHILE ANY CAR (in this context, in this endorsment a car means a motorcycle {trust me on this}) INSURED UNDER THIS SECTION IS OPERATED IN, ENGAGED IN PRACTICE, OR WHILE PREPARING FOR ANY HILL-CLIMBING, JUMPING, RACING OR SPEED CONTEST, WHETHER THE CONTEST IS IMPROMPTU OR PREARRANGED "

(policy language caps not mine) Yes, they are shouting it at you. This clause appears in both the section on liability and a carbon copy of it under the collision and comprehensive section.

Sooo again, tell the truth, yes I was at Laguna Seca. Yes I was on the track at the same time as other bikes. No we were not racing. And who do you want me to put you in touch with to confirm all this? Cause there ain't no 6 month in business agent gonna believe this one without you providing back up. You can double down on that bet if your agent don't ride. You can try to disect the words all you want but they will use the physical facts and your own statements to determine how they are going to handle the claim. Here's whats sad about all this. 2 guys could have very similar accidents (no such thing as identical) and be treated all together differently depending on how they report the claim and what they say to their agent and the adjustors. The very best way to hit a snag and have your insurance balk is to try to con them or play word games with them. Our B.S. sensors are really that refined. :bikes

[RTRandy]

Speaking of track . . look what I just brought home yesterday !!! Had zero miles on the odometer when I picked it up. I plan to bring this guy to track days here in Texas, insurance or no insurance. Please don't throw me in the Dog House for posting my Suzuki photo on a Beemer forum. This is my second bike. I'm told motorcycles are like tatoos, once you get your first one, you want more and more. In case you're wondering, his name is Sonny.

[BradfordBenn]

Please don't throw me in the Dog House for posting my Suzuki photo on a Beemer forum.

Somehow I don't think that picture is causing any trouble. Nice looking ride, congrats :thumb

[dano]

In regards to the original question, I'd call my insurance to find out for sure.

But.....I'm betting they are going to ask a question of you as well.

It'll go soimething like this: Are you serious? :D