A question of price...

[JetDoc]

I've been looking for a second bike to play with. My K1200LT is a little heavy for running the fire trails and back country where I live. I've found a '93 R100GS Paris-Dakar in good condition with low miles. If I could get it at a reasonable price, I'd buy it tomorrow, but the owner wants an arm and a leg for it. He's way over suggested retail from both Kelly Blue Book and NADA. Is this bike really worth the extra $$$, or should I keep looking? :dunno

[GSTom]

The PD models are pricey because they are pretty desirable as a collectible bike. Standard (non-PD) GS models are more affordable. A good price on a PD would be around $5000 up depending on condition and mileage, etc.

[James.A]

I've been known to off-road my /5's. I'd say that any airhead without a fairing would do the job. You can do things to gain ground clearance. If you don't want to pay too much for a second bike, then don't do it.

[bobw]

I just got a '94 R100GS, not a Dakar though. The Dakar will apparently hold value better because so many people prefer that model. I like my GS and will likely keep it for a long time. It feels like it weighs only 100 lbs after riding the LT for a day or two. :brow

[pmdave]

As a guide to what bikes are going for, check the back pages of Owners News. Good clean airheads are gaining in price for two reasons: BMW isn't making them anymore, and airheads are very practical machines that can be rebuilt indefinitely.

IMHO, the GS Dakar models may be worth it as museum pieces, but I prefer to ride my machines. And frankly, the biggest difference between a "street" bike and a "dual sport" is tires. If you need all the ground clearance of a GS, you should probably be thinking about a KLR or DRZ. If you're talking about fire roads and unpaved forest roads, just about any bike with aggressive tires will do fine.

So, my vote would be for either an old R75/6 or a late model R1150R "standard". You can rebuild an R75, convert the alternator to a big-watt, maybe swap the front end to something from a Jap dual sport, and have a nice backroad machine that's simple by choice. (Hey, where did we hear that?) If you're not mechanically inclined, the standard R1150R oilhead without all the plastic and high zoot brakes can be obtained new for around $10k, used R1100R for about $6k, and you can bolt up an 1150GS bash plate, and lever on a pair of dual sport tires, maybe a high front fender. It will handle great and is very reliable. Oh yeh, BMW dealers will work on it where some won't work on the "old" airheads anymore.

I suggest avoiding any tricky BMW luggage, and instead using some "adventure touring" aluminum panniers, say Jesse or Happy Trails. The high exhaust can be lowered easily with BMW or Happy trails elbows.

pmdave :type

[JetDoc]

Thanks for the input, guys. I think I'll keep looking.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the Suzuki V-strom?

[TZOLK]

How much does he want???
Most GSPD models in the Owners News are over Kelly when advertised. Depends on what the owner has done also. You can count on sinking more money into it if the owner has not upgraded some parts( Down the road I mean). I laugh when I see the Kelly on my bike. I paid bout 2 large more than Kelly would have and I dont think that there was a lot of room to negotiate with the seller.
V-stroms are nice and comfy but dont have a fraction of the aftermarket support that the beemers do. Also longterm rebuilding may be less possible. For one thing, it is not a great seller for Suzuki. Remember the TDM850? Yeah ive got one of those too. Not much stuff out there for it. Im sure it shifts 100% nicer than the john deer..ahhhem, I mean BMW but I think it is more of a road bike. And it doesnt have that 21" tire, probably stops better though.
So its a good bet that the v-strom is less capable of , say a thirty foot triple tabletop on a motocross track than a GS is. A landing on either would not be pretty. Hey, didnt the Fonz do in on a BSA?

Enough of this HimHaw, lets get down to Brass Tax!! You'd be way cooler in the Starbucks parking lot with the PD. :evil

[JetDoc]

How much does he want???
Most GSPD models in the Owners News are over Kelly when advertised. Depends on what the owner has done also. You can count on sinking more money into it if the owner has not upgraded some parts( Down the road I mean). I laugh when I see the Kelly on my bike. I paid bout 2 large more than Kelly would have and I dont think that there was a lot of room to negotiate with the seller.

Enough of this HimHaw, lets get down to Brass Tax!! You'd be way cooler in the Starbucks parking lot with the PD. :evil

I agree that NADA is a bit low - $3500. Kelly Blue Book is a bit closer to reality at $4885, but this guy's asking price is nearly $8,000! The bike is not a museum piece. It has paint chips on both fenders and the lower trim piece around the front of the engine. It has rusty scuff marks on the crash bars, and will need new tires soon. It does show low miles and is equipped with BMW system case bags, but still not worth the asking price in my view.

There are two late model V-Stroms on Ebay for around $6K each... I'd have to ship them from back east, but I think they're still a better deal than a '93 PD for $8K

[TZOLK]

$ 8000.00 :jawdrop AAAAACCCCKKK Tightness in the chest, Nausea,Diaphoresis, Feeling of impending doom :uhoh , QUICK! grab the paddles, I think Im going into cardiac arrest!!!!!!!!! :hungover beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppp.

Id keep on looking. Check the flea Market. I found mine on http://www.ibmwr.org/market/
Dont ever give up!!! Besides, its winter.

[dlearl476]

I've been looking for a second bike to play with. My K1200LT is a little heavy for running the fire trails and back country where I live. I've found a '93 R100GS Paris-Dakar in good condition with low miles. If I could get it at a reasonable price, I'd buy it tomorrow, but the owner wants an arm and a leg for it. He's way over suggested retail from both Kelly Blue Book and NADA. Is this bike really worth the extra $$$, or should I keep looking? :dunno

JetDoc, where are you shopping? IMHO (backed up by my mechanic) is that the bikes you'll see advertised nationally will be a lot higher than they're worth, especially on the PD models. Keep your eyes peeled on your local classifieds. For all you know theres a "lo-miler" within miles of your house that will surface some day. And the PD are the rarest of the breed, if the normal GS will sufffice it will be a lot cheaper. My mechanic says he sees a early GS (I'm looking for a forked model) for ~$4K three or four times a year.

Ding! another light goes on: A weekly trip to a Border's or Barnes and Nobles to check out the Seattle, Portland, and SF classifieds might be profitable as well.

[TZOLK]

JetDoc, Im assuming your an aircraft mechanic, OK ,there are 3 for sale on the first page of "airheads for sale" at http://www.ibmwr.org/market/. All for under 6 large.
Even a PURPLE one. also a few GS's

[James.A]

Hey JetDoc, at $7000 plus, He's awfully proud of that bike. He likes it way more than he wants to sell it. Here's an angle I learned in the vintage guitar trade. Your job as a buyer is to destroy value in the eyes of the seller. You tell 'em that they are in the way high side of the market, and tell 'em that the piece just "isn't that strong". It's important to use those exact words. It melts a seller down to a puddle. Then you pick the ride(bike) to pieces on originality and wear and flaws. Then you make sure they have your card, or phone number, or whatever. Then you walk away. Be firm and don't talk too much. Get 'em thinking about the price and make sure they know that serious money is leaving. If the seller calls back, offer the low end of the range and make 'em work you up to what you think is fair. C'mon, we all know that at nearly 8 G's, he's not fighting off the hoards of buyers trying to make a big score.

[pmdave]

Hey Jetdoc,

The V strom is OK, but IMHO it's not a serious adventure tourer like the BMW GS. If you want to look really cool in front of the Starbucks, get an Aprilia Capo Nord, splash some mud around, and strap a tank bag on it with a map of South America visible, especially the road to Tierra del Fuego.

If you want to do some serious long distance miles that include some unpaved roads, I suggest a used BMW R1150GS without ABS or power brakes. It will do anything your LT will do, without all the fuss. About the same price as that airhead Dakar you're lusting after.

But if you just want to go messing around on some nearby unpaved roads once in a while, pick up whatever mid-sized bike strikes your fancy. It might be a good idea to get a machine that doesn't have a lot of fragile radiators hanging behind the front wheel (you know, like the Capo and the Strom) Try out a KLR and compare it to a Suzuki DR400 or SV650, maybe even a Honda Nighthawk. When Mike Kneebone and Bob Higdon did a little jaunt across Russia earlier this year, they left their beemers at home and (if i remember correctly) took Nighthawks because of the simplicity and reliability.

You might discover that a lightweight 400cc or 650cc dual sport or naked street bike is a lot of fun, and economical, too. Save the big roadburner for those long superslab jaunts.

pmdave :type

[mrmaico]

Try what I did, I put a "Wanted BMW motorcyles" ad in the local paper and got this R65 for $650! :clap
http://images4.fotopic.net/?iid=y5x969&outx=800&oq=0

[YB in IN]

JetDoc, you can buy a used KLR650 tricked out with all kinds of goodies for well under 8 grand. Heck, I think that you can buy a new one for like 6. Run, don't walk away from the PD seller, he's obviously smoking something trying to sell a PD in that sort of condition for that much. Case in point. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4513228809&category=50016&sspagename=WDVW)

[GlobalRider]

I've found a '93 R100GS Paris-Dakar in good condition with low miles. If I could get it at a reasonable price, I'd buy it tomorrow, but the owner wants an arm and a leg for it. He's way over suggested retail from both Kelly Blue Book and NADA.

Well why should he sell an above average example at suggested retail or an average price? Its worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Worse yet are all the GSes I've seen that are in crap condition and the seller wants the going price or basically what they paid for it three years ago

You mean you want to get it at a reasonable price so that you can drive it for a few years and then sell it for the same price that you've paid for it. :stick

[bikerfish1100]

Try what I did, I put a "Wanted BMW motorcyles" ad in the local paper and got this R65 for $650!
you freaking THIEF!! that is so wrong!!

i am so jealous!!

[JetDoc]

Well why should he sell an above average example at suggested retail or an average price? Its worth whatever someone is willing to pay. Worse yet are all the GSes I've seen that are in crap condition and the seller wants the going price or basically what they paid for it three years ago

You mean you want to get it at a reasonable price so that you can drive it for a few years and then sell it for the same price that you've paid for it. :stick

I see nothing wrong with wanting to ride a bike for free :wow , but the bike I was looking at is not an "above average example" by any means. In fact, I'd say that cosmetically, it's below average, but mechanically sound. The only thing to recommend it is the low mileage, and the fact that it is a local seller.

I learned a long time ago that a thing is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Maybe that's the reason the owner still hasn't sold his R100GS.

Oh well... it's looking more and more like a new Suzuki DL1000 V-strom is in my future. :thumb

[mrmaico]

you freaking THIEF!! that is so wrong!!

heheheh :dunno I got it through a bancruptcy auction at a lawyers office, only 2 other guys showed up. It only has 6000 miles on it. They also sold a 1986 K75C with 1200 miles on it for $1150. Wish I'd bought that one also.

Barry

[sgborgstrom]

Getting back to the original "question of price"

A lot of suggestions have been tossed around here- but not the obvious one of an F650GS....why not? Smaller and lighter than the LT, capable of hauling loads of stuff (see Flash's lateast on Pelican cases, just don't mention fuel injection :brow it's also (IMHO) a better looking bike than the KLR/XR?V-stroms of the world and it's a member of the BMW family.

Steve