K-bike fuel filter

[dedrake]

Any info out there for an automotive substitute for classic K-bike fuel filter?

[KCKBMOA]

ve you tried the tech pages on the IBMWR site? There is about every subject covered there. :blah KC

[Paul_F]

Any info out there for an automotive substitute for classic K-bike fuel filter?

I sometimes use a NAPA filter, G2 Filter or NAPA Gold 3032

I've read that in the states, apparently you can get Deutsch FF424 fuel filters for $1.99 at AutoZone or LuberFiner ff3424 at AutoZone

Hope that this helps. :ca

[PGlaves]

With the K bikes there are 3 or 4 things to be watchful of.

Make sure it is an injection filter. I would only use a welded steel filter if aftermarket.

Make sure it is big enough to flow sufficient fuel to meet demand.

Size of the fuel inlet and outlet is important. Too small and the connection leaks. Too large, even by a little bit, and trying to get the hose on (and off later) in that somewhat slippery environment is tough. Remember you can't always pick how much gas is in the tank when the filter clogs. My experience is it is usually almost full. (Recent fill up with cruddy or wet [water] gas.)

Physical size is important - it must go in and out.

There are a number of filters that will work. I don't have numbers, sorry.

[BuddingGeezer]

I sometimes use a NAPA filter, G2 Filter or NAPA Gold 3032

I've read that in the states, apparently you can get Deutsch FF424 fuel filters for $1.99 at AutoZone or LuberFiner ff3424 at AutoZone

Hope that this helps. :ca

I ran the Luberfinder FF3424 for 23,000 miles with no problem. sold the bike, still running.

Ralph Sims

[TinyTrains]

I buy one of the standard metal filters from Auto Zone for $5. Used them for years. Sorry I don't have the number, but take your stock filter over and match it up. The nipple size must be an exact match.

DO NOT USE PLASTIC.

Scott

[AndresS]

I swear I have the MANN filter number somewhere @ work. Will revert.
Cheers
Andres

[motoedde]

Aside from the LuberFiner one mentioned above...here are some alternate ones.


Triumph Stock - T1240850
AC GF61
BMW - 16 14 2 325 859
Fleetguard FF149
Fram G2
KNECHT MAHLE KL145
Motocraft FG-2
Napa Gold 3032
Purolator - F20011
Wix 33032


Aside from the BMW one, I've personally only used the Knecht Mahle, the Napa Gold, the Wix and the Luberfiner. My personal preference is the Wix/Napa Gold...but the others worked fine.
I change mine every 10-15k or once every 1-2 years.

Lastly, IF you choose to use a filter other than the one've personally tried...remember Paul Glaves mention about sizing. Since its a positive displacement fuel pump and before the filter, improper sizing could impact the life of your pump eventually.

HTH

[deilenberger]

Since its a positive displacement fuel pump and before the filter, improper sizing could impact the life of your pump eventually.Actually - it's after the pump. The input side of the pump is the bottom opening, which has a mesh sort of sock to filter out the larger lumps. A plugged filter can still impact the life of the pump, but not due to restricting the input of the pump.

[Zagando]

+1 on the Napa Gold 3032

[motoedde]

Actually - it's after the pump. The input side of the pump is the bottom opening, which has a mesh sort of sock to filter out the larger lumps. A plugged filter can still impact the life of the pump, but not due to restricting the input of the pump.


Good clarification.

The filter I was referring to was not the pre-pump screen/filter but the cartridge filter that's after the pump...

[PHMarvin]

Hi, Edde,
For years I was a proponent of the Deutsch ff424 filter, about $2, from Auto Zone. It was made in Israel, then Mexico. A couple of years ago, they changed the mfg. location to China, name to Luberfilter, the number to ff3424, and the price to over $4. I went to O'Reilly Auto Parts. Their MicroGuard 33032 filter is made in Taiwan, looks like the old ff424 (metal, size, etc.) and priced under $3. I hope this helps.

[roncooper]

O'Reilly also sells a 33032 made by WIX for a little more.

[AndresS]

I swear I have the MANN filter number somewhere @ work. Will revert.
Cheers
Andres

Ahhhh, nothing like quoting one self.... MANN Filter reference is MWK44, believe it is the OEM filter, i.e. the one the mother ship puts its name on and charges a lot of shekels for.....
Cheers
Andres

[roncooper]

The MANN is $21 on line

[motoedde]

Just so folks realize why I don't differentiate between the NapaGold and the Wix...

the Wix Filter...
http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=33032

the Napa Filter....
http://www.napafilters.com/filterlookup/PartDetail.asp?Part=3032

I'm all for using genuine BMW parts...but I have no interest in subsidizing Musuem costs...@$30 per filter.

http://www.bmw-welt.com/web/portal/en/index_highend.html?content=http://www.bmw-welt.com/web/portal/en/home.html

[Robsara]

I'm all for using genuine BMW parts...but I have no interest in subsidizing Musuem costs...

http://www.bmw-welt.com/web/portal/en/index_highend.html?content=http://www.bmw-welt.com/web/portal/en/home.html

Me either. That's one of many reasons I hate taxes.

I'll put the soapbox away.



Thanks for the filter info. I'm going to pick up a couple of the NAPA ones today. I've had my brick for a year, and don't know when the last time this was done.

Only problem, the tank is full of "stabile-ed" fuel. Maybe I'll empty it out and put it in the van. It will allow me to get any water out too?? Still not good enough to ride. (lots of dirt on the roads/corners in my 'hood and potholes a plenty) Supposed to rain soon, that should clean off some of it.

[motoedde]

You can stick your hand in the tank and not have to remove the fuel...not a biggie...it should take 5 minutes...

http://www.flickr.com/search/show/?q=k75+fuel-filter&w=86846941%40N00&s=int&ss=2

Incidentally, that filter is applicable as it matches the this fuel pump made by VDO(E3000-19887)...for a 1993 VW Fox...VDO made the pump for my 1993 K75...

http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/best/image.jsp?title=Fuel%20Pump&url=http%3A//img.eautopartscatalog.com/live/E300019887VDO.JPG

The electrical connections are different, BUT it looks like it should slide right into the same rubber dampener. I'll check with the local autoparts store this weekend...to compare, and report back.

[Ted]

Anyone know what the specs are for the OEM BMW filter (burst pressure, filter/micron, dimensions, etc.?)

[Robsara]

Well, I just got out of NAPA. The filters are on sale. I bought 2 filters for 5.47 with tax. Looks like most napa gold filters are 40% off. A bunch of fine print applies, but the 3032 is included.

This should be good news since "the cheapest thing on a BMW is the rider" is surely truth in my case.

[saddleman]

I have yet to find a replacement filter for my K1200 LT. I do know for a fact that the Wix 33032 filter is not rated for fuel injection pressure. I have talked to Wix,Puralator & Mann and none of them have a fuel filter for a replacement for the OEM BMW Mahle filter. My filter is inside the tank next to the wiring for the electric fuel pump. I won't use a filter that is not rated for fuel injection pressure that is mounted next to 12 volt wires inside a fuel tank.

[roncooper]

I do know for a fact that the Wix 33032 filter is not rated for fuel injection pressure. QUOTE.

According to the Wix web site, the burst pressure is 60 psi. I don't doubt that Wix doesn't make a filter for your bike, but many people have used the 33032 in the old Ks for years.

[PHMarvin]

I have yet to find a replacement filter for my K1200 LT. I do know for a fact that the Wix 33032 filter is not rated for fuel injection pressure. I have talked to Wix,Puralator & Mann and none of them have a fuel filter for a replacement for the OEM BMW Mahle filter. My filter is inside the tank next to the wiring for the electric fuel pump. I won't use a filter that is not rated for fuel injection pressure that is mounted next to 12 volt wires inside a fuel tank.

Hi,
I have used the aftermarket filters for about 150k miles on BMW K1100LT and K75 bikes. I've never had a problem. I have a genuine BMW fuel filter, stamped with the BMW logo ALSO stamped with the Purolator logo and the Purolator number PFC/39. The filter box is marked $8.95, so I've obviously had it a few years! The end is crimped, so it may be of the design BMW got away from because of them coming apart.

I've used the Deutsch ff424, then the LuberFilter ff3424 filters ever since I changed my first K-bike fuel filter back in 1997. I've had 2 of them clog, but as soon as I changed to a new filter, all was well. The Wix 33032 looks just like the Deutsch, etc. and at around $3 (vs over $30 for the BMW filter), I'll continue to use what has worked for me. I also use Autolite 4163 spark plugs and Mobil 1 15w50 car oil. Likewise, I've used them for tens of thousands of miles with no problems.

[PGlaves]

I would not be satisfied with a filter rated at 60 p.s.i. burst pressure on a fuel injected BMW. While nominal regulated pressure is between 36 p.s.i. and 42 p.s.i. by spec for various models, the positive displacement fuel pumps will deliver in excess of 100 p.s.i.

Everything might be fine as long as nothing interferes with fuel reaching the regulator and returning to the tank. But any obstruction to that flow prior to the regulator can subject the filter to pressures in excess of 100 p.s.i. To extend the explanation a bit beyond just K75s, some of the Oilheads have quick disconnects on the lines to and from the tank. These include automatic shutoff valves to stop fuel flow when a line is disconnected. Disconnect the QD on the pressure line to the regulator and energize the fuel pump by turning on the key. That action subjects the filter to at least 100 p.s.i. I have seen 125 p.s.i. which was just before the pressure gauge shot out of the end of the hose, striking the wall 20 feet away, and breaking. (Some days are like that.) And the filter doesn't burst. This tells me that the OEM filter holds a whole lot more than the 60 p.s.i. burst pressure of the aftermarket filters discussed in this thread.

This is not to say that a good aftermarket filter designed for a fuel injection system won't work as well as an OEM filter. But to do so it needs a burst pressure a whole lot higher than 60 p.s.i. I use them on our Oilheads and sometimes in the K75s. But they are welded steel, not crimped filters.

I am now heading off to the Internet to find out a bit more about burst specs for filters I know are designed for fuel injection. Back later.

[motoedde]

Doesn't the excessive burst pressure of the OEM then give the owner a false sense of security in masking a potential issue and hurting other components in the fuel circuit...when the pump is working at a higher psi than normal?

Also, IF the pump is pushing at 100psi, won't the paper filter element burst inside the filter casing before the casing...and create issues anyways in the fuel circuit?

Because the aftermarket filter is cheaper and the burst pressure is known to be about 60 psi, it forces the owner to replace the filter at a more frequent interval...that preventative maintenance behavior...IMO...could be better for the longevity of components in the fuel circuit, no?

[PGlaves]

Doesn't the excessive burst pressure of the OEM then give the owner a false sense of security in masking a potential issue and hurting other components in the fuel circuit...when the pump is working at a higher psi than normal?

Also, IF the pump is pushing at 100psi, won't the paper filter element burst inside the filter casing before the casing...and create issues anyways in the fuel circuit?

Because the aftermarket filter is cheaper and the burst pressure is known to be about 60 psi, it forces the owner to replace the filter at a more frequent interval...that preventative maintenance behavior...IMO...could be better for the longevity of components in the fuel circuit, no?

Well, maybe some of that is true some of the time. If there is a constriction past the in-tank filter the 100+ psi pressure is felt all over the internal surface of the filter and at both the inlet and outlet of the filter. So nothing should happen to the filtering element inside.

For most pressure systems the design burst pressure is at least 4 times the system operating pressure. That tells me that the filter in question is intended for a carbureted system, not an injection system.

Certainly don't use it on a system with quick disconnects, and certainly don't clamp off the pressure line under circumstances where the pump might run.

There are lots of fuel injection system filters on the shelf at any auto parts store in the $5 or so range. Using a filter designed and intended for a carbureted system with an 8 to 12 p.s.i. fuel pump just doesn't appeal to me.

[motoedde]

Thanks for the heads up.

The Mahle filter is available aftermarket for $15 and its designed for FI.
http://www.vallantinemotorworks.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

A couple more questions come to mind...


How would using a larger size fuel filter designed for FI impact the fuel circuit? Or a fuel pump...if the pressure regulator fulfills its role?

[PGlaves]

Thanks for the heads up.

The Mahle filter is available aftermarket for $15 and its designed for FI.
http://www.vallantinemotorworks.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=2

A couple more questions come to mind...


How would using a larger size fuel filter designed for FI impact the fuel circuit? Or a fuel pump...if the pressure regulator fulfills its role?

With a filter what matters is:

1. Burst pressure
2. Filtration level- how large is the smallest particle it will pass.
3. Flow rate - at operating pressure how much fuel will it flow.

A "larger" filter probably constricts less so flows more fuel at a given pressure. That is just fine. In a K75 it just flows through the regulator and back to the tank anyway.

I have no idea what BMW specs. Most injection filters I found specs for filter at the 7 micron to 10 micron level. Bigger gets caught.

When a filter clogs pressure upstream increases, and flow rate decreases. At the extreme it won't flow enough fuel to meet engine demand, the bike falters, and there is danger of a lean condition damaging valves and pistons.

Since a positive displacement fuel pump can pump in excess of 100 p.s.i. and the regulator reduces pressure at the fuel rail on a k75 to 42 p.s.i., a pump could be quite worn and a person would never know it because it would still be putting out more than the regulated pressure to the fuel rail.

[Robsara]

So to clarify, the NAPA gold filter should NOT be used on a K75, but rather look to the MAHLE filter linked to above instead?

And here I thought the 2/$5 was a great thing...


Rob
1994 K75 with REALLY bad FD Splines. Have you lubed yours properly?? Get on it!!

[motoedde]

So to clarify, the NAPA gold filter should NOT be used on a K75, but rather look to the MAHLE filter linked to above instead?

And here I thought the 2/$5 was a great thing...


Rob
1994 K75 with REALLY bad FD Splines. Have you lubed yours properly?? Get on it!!

For my replacement interval, I'll continue to use the Napa/Wix...as I've enough success with it.

Others can make their own informed decision as there is enough within this thread to do so.

[PGlaves]

So to clarify, the NAPA gold filter should NOT be used on a K75, but rather look to the MAHLE filter linked to above instead?

And here I thought the 2/$5 was a great thing...


Rob
1994 K75 with REALLY bad FD Splines. Have you lubed yours properly?? Get on it!!

I agree with that. I would only use a filter specifically designed and intended for a fuel injection system. The Wix and Napa numbers listed are not. The Mahle referenced is, and is spec'd for BMW motorcycles too.

There are decent filters at auto parts stores designed for injection systems and with inlets and outlets sized for 5/16 / 8mm hose. It just takes looking.

I understand where motoedde is coming from. I just don't agree that filter is suitable for a K75.

[saddleman]

Fuel injectors have a very fine screen in them which is why most fuel injected filters have a lower micron number than filters for a carburetor. A couple of plugged fuel injectors cost quite a bit more to repair than the correct filter.

[TinyTrains]

I disassembled the stock filter from my K75. It had neither a screen nor welded construction. It is a simple paper filter with a crimped end, and a BMW logo.

I have run solid metal Autozone filters for 40K miles with no problems at all.

Just my experience.
Scott

[PGlaves]

I disassembled the stock filter from my K75. It had neither a screen nor welded construction. It is a simple paper filter with a crimped end, and a BMW logo.

I have run solid metal Autozone filters for 40K miles with no problems at all.

Just my experience.
Scott

Sure. Make that about 400K miles for me. BUT - what filter. What Number? Injection filter or carb filter?

[AndresS]

Well, all this talk of filters got me fired up so I went to the NAPA store and bought me not one but TWO NAPA Gold jobs...... for my Mercedes 190SL:dance
Of course now I have to put the engine in, so I can install the filter, but hey, that's a detail

[motoedde]

Sure. Make that about 400K miles for me. BUT - what filter. What Number? Injection filter or carb filter?

Another data point to consider...
For me its been a Wix/Napa Gold or LuberLiner for about 80k miles...plus another 30k with the BMW filter...

In that 80k...about half of that mileage I filled up in locales like this.

http://www.motoedde.com/PicasaAlbums/First_Week_Mali/target6.html

http://www.motoedde.com/PicasaAlbums/Southern_Algeria/target6.html

http://www.motoedde.com/PicasaAlbums/Northern_Mauritania/target6.html

I have faith in Wix/Napa Gold...and thanks to PMarvin for helping me discover the afterlife with aftermarket before my trip;)

[Ted]

Holy Cow - I am in awe you did that on a K75S!

I used to worry my fairing would fall off dodging potholes in Washington DC on mine...

[motoedde]

Holy Cow - I am in awe you did that on a K75S!

I used to worry my fairing would fall off dodging potholes in Washington DC on mine...


Yours will and mine did...
After several failed attempts, I finally put in a more permanent fix...see pictures below...

http://www.motoedde.com/PicasaAlbums/Fixing_Fairing_Mount/index.html

Once this was done...no issues.

[dedrake]

I would not be satisfied with a filter rated at 60 p.s.i. burst pressure on a fuel injected BMW. While nominal regulated pressure is between 36 p.s.i. and 42 p.s.i. by spec for various models, the positive displacement fuel pumps will deliver in excess of 100 p.s.i.

Everything might be fine as long as nothing interferes with fuel reaching the regulator and returning to the tank. But any obstruction to that flow prior to the regulator can subject the filter to pressures in excess of 100 p.s.i. To extend the explanation a bit beyond just K75s, some of the Oilheads have quick disconnects on the lines to and from the tank. These include automatic shutoff valves to stop fuel flow when a line is disconnected. Disconnect the QD on the pressure line to the regulator and energize the fuel pump by turning on the key. That action subjects the filter to at least 100 p.s.i. I have seen 125 p.s.i. which was just before the pressure gauge shot out of the end of the hose, striking the wall 20 feet away, and breaking. (Some days are like that.) And the filter doesn't burst. This tells me that the OEM filter holds a whole lot more than the 60 p.s.i. burst pressure of the aftermarket filters discussed in this thread.

This is not to say that a good aftermarket filter designed for a fuel injection system won't work as well as an OEM filter. But to do so it needs a burst pressure a whole lot higher than 60 p.s.i. I use them on our Oilheads and sometimes in the K75s. But they are welded steel, not crimped filters.

I am now heading off to the Internet to find out a bit more about burst specs for filters I know are designed for fuel injection. Back later.

Thanks Paul, I went to Auto Zone and looked before I even got a response on this, because you can see their filters through the bubble pack. I ended up with the ff3424 like a lot of other people apparently. Thaks to you and all the others for the good information.

[dedrake]

Aside from the LuberFiner one mentioned above...here are some alternate ones.


Triumph Stock - T1240850
AC GF61
BMW - 16 14 2 325 859
Fleetguard FF149
Fram G2
KNECHT MAHLE KL145
Motocraft FG-2
Napa Gold 3032
Purolator - F20011
Wix 33032


Aside from the BMW one, I've personally only used the Knecht Mahle, the Napa Gold, the Wix and the Luberfiner. My personal preference is the Wix/Napa Gold...but the others worked fine.
I change mine every 10-15k or once every 1-2 years.

Lastly, IF you choose to use a filter other than the one've personally tried...remember Paul Glaves mention about sizing. Since its a positive displacement fuel pump and before the filter, improper sizing could impact the life of your pump eventually.

HTH

Thanks edde

[Ted]

I saw a NAPA and stopped in to pick up a couple of the 3032's, cheap at 2 for $5 and nice to keep on hand for emergencies. They feel pretty substantial, well made and are a USA product. I also looked at the AutoZone LuberFiner ones, while they are metal they feel much lighter and less substantial, look like a much cheaper build, and are made in China. Of note, they are $6 each.

I plan on picking up a Dremel hopefully this weekend and will start slicing and dicing once I find a BMW one to sacrifice :) Anyone have any idea how I could test the burst pressure of them?

On a side note, I saw on the BMW OEM pump specs that the bypass is 65psi and the burst pressure on the NAPA is rated 60psi...

[98lee]

Anyone have any idea how I could test the burst pressure of them?


An air compressor and a good containment chamber so the shrapnel doesn't kill you!:bolt



:dance:dance:dance