Camera suggestions

[Texpaul]

Well, it's time for another one of those annoying camera suggestion questions.

I'm looking for suggestions for a new camera to take on bike trips. I currently have a Sony WSC 120 (4X zoom, 7.2 MP, 1080 HD). It took great pics till I dropped it one time too many so now I'm looking to replace it.

I think I would like something with more zoom, say at least 10X. I would consider more but my research seems to indicate that the 20X and 24X cameras have issues with picture quality at higher zooms.

I'm clumsy so image stabilization would help me take better pics (fewer blurry pics?).

Something with at least 7 mp so they can be enlarged. 1080HD would be nice.

Obviously, as small as possible, for space considerations and as rugged as possible (note fate of last camera). It needs to be easy to use because I'm not too smart either.

I would prefer to keep the cost under $350.

Please feel free to correct any misconceptions I may have regarding any of the above requirements and I look forward to your recommendations.

[pffog]

I bought one of these a few months back, takes excellent pics and HD video, I am very happy. Has most of what you are looking for, incl stabilization, and has a wide 25mm lens on the low side. Personally I find a wide lens much more useful than a super zoom.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Digital-Cameras/Lumix-Digital-Cameras/model.DMC-ZS3S?loomia_si=1

Good reviews on this too.

If you want to check out some camers reviews, try Steve's digicam web site, I find it very helpful.

[SheRidesABeemer]

I have a new Cannon D-10 waterproof, shock resistant, cold loving camera.
I am looking forward to wearing it on rainy rides and taking pics.
But in the mean time I'm going to go snorkeling with it in Cancun next week :whistle

[tommcgee]

I have a new Cannon D-10 waterproof, shock resistant, cold loving camera.
I am looking forward to wearing it on rainy rides and taking pics.
But in the mean time I'm going to go snorkeling with it in Cancun next week :whistle

I'll pass on the snorkelingthing, but the D-10 rides well in the rain, takes halfway decent movies, can be operated with a gloved hand, and you can't possibly jam the lens with bugs like my poor Canon D470 (R.I.P.).

As always, YouTube compression artifacts are a killer -- this was taken last fall when I got the D-10.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwbXRcLUVaI

[rinty]

I bought one of these...pffog

+1. The Lumix ZS3 is an amazing camera.

Here's a shot my wife took with hers, in the Shaba Reserve, Kenya with the lens fully stretched out (12X):

http://rinty.smugmug.com/Other/Karins-Africa-Shots/P1000675/713156411_5Uwet-M-1.jpg

The Leopard was guarding a Gerenuk which it had just taken, and stached high up in a big tree.

The little Lumix is as capable as my Nikon SLR with Nikkor 200 mm lens.

[GrafikFeat]

Anything you wanna know about any camera just look here.

http://www.dpreview.com/

Even has sample images and 'street' reviews...

Ya can't go wrong here.

[GrafikFeat]

Although I will add I did go w/ a Nikon D200...

The SLR's in your price range are pretty good if not excellent.
I'd suggest a SLR because you can always add lenses.

Lenses to a camera are what speakers are to a sound system.
Don't cheap out on 'em.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/458945067/" title="My Ear. by GrafikFeat, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/458945067_fd91efab3f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="685" alt="My Ear." /></a>

[MLS2GO]

Here's my take on motorcycle cameras. I think they really fall into three categories. Nothing beats a DSLR, but they are hard to carry and most have to get off the bike to use them. Another category is a small easy to operate with gloves always ready camera. That could be any simple point and shoot, but Gail talks about above the one that wins the prize for best in the www.dpreview.com shoot out for waterproof cameras. I have used a small Canon for some time for this but am ready to jump to waterproof and will probably buy the same one. I ride in some long distance rallies and waterproof would be a time saver. The third category of camera is the large pocket camera with better optics, image stabilization and a longer lens. I use a slightly older model of the Panasonic Lumix mentioned above. It will take incredible pictures, most could not tell from DSLR and is more portable. A DSLR can still do more, and I love mine, but a camera at the ready always beats one that you can't get to. By the way I carry my small camera on a strap around my neck (tucked into my collar so it can't grab on to anything if I have an inadvertent get off), and even had small pocket made onto my new riding coat to slide it into. I always read www.dpreview.com before buying any digital camera.
So the perfect camera doesn't exist. But the perfect camera for different situations does.

[GrafikFeat]

So I get home form work...
Kick back on the couch and look up to see the subject of this comparison.
Just remember...
There are soooo many cameras out there and color/quality is completely subjective.
End result is also a thought to consider.
Will it be mainly for online use?
Will you print any?

Is it for 'snapshots' or serious work?

It took a few months for me to decide.
Within that few months new models of what I was researching appeared.
That worked for me as the earlier version dropped in price.

One word works for your situation: Research.

Anyway, here is that quick comparison (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/sets/72157623320259573/) I mentioned at the start.
Both are Nikon.
Both are 10 MegaPixel.
One is a DSLR and the other a Point and shoot.
Both are at maximum focal length.
I tried to "stretch it out" but they wouldn't budge. :laugh

Any way... Go look at DP Review. You'll spend months there.

[tommcgee]

I tried DLSR on the bike and they're too big and klunkie for my taste. I much prefer the high zoom Sony HX-1, H50, or similar offering from Canon.

[rocketman]

here's another recently updated thread..

http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=32708

personally I really like the idea of one of the totally water-weather/shock proof ones now available, rainy day shots can be awesome esp. one including your bike when you're out riding. People who see the shots will soon know just how crazy we really are! :laugh

RM

[bluehole]

Not to hijack this thread, but, tommcgee, I checked out your video. How do you mount your camera on your bike?

[tommcgee]

I think I got the mount from Aerostich. It's not a perfect solution, but the guys I ride with NEVER stop and I wouldn't get any trip pictures without it. For video, the less the camera weighs, the better.

I'd strongly recommend using a waterproof camera with a mount like this, more for bugs than water. I destroyed a Canon A470 and a Canon G10 lens mechanism with bugs. That's why I bought the Canon D10.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3156/2935236327_1526590ced_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3067/2936092132_2879e6a238_o.jpg

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3224/2935236143_03365eb425_o.jpg

[GrafikFeat]

Another solution...

Shoots stills at a pre-determined interval or video.
Comes in a waterproof housing.

The HeroCam. Nice results.

Listed/discussed a million places on here.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/3715104508/" title="HeroCam w/ Ram Mount. by GrafikFeat, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3715104508_1d4e30a121_b.jpg" width="1024" height="687" alt="HeroCam w/ Ram Mount." /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/3715105162/" title="Over All View. by GrafikFeat, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3509/3715105162_bf1fd3a048.jpg" width="500" height="335" alt="Over All View." /></a>

[rocketman]

Another solution...

Shoots stills at a pre-determined interval or video.
Comes in a waterproof housing.

The HeroCam. Nice results.

Listed/discussed a million places on here.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/3715104508/" title="HeroCam w/ Ram Mount. by GrafikFeat, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2562/3715104508_1d4e30a121_b.jpg" width="1024" height="687" alt="HeroCam w/ Ram Mount." /></a>



Interesting, I have looking at a weather-proof digital that has a feature for timed exposures that you set to be taken every 10 seconds up 5 minute intervals. Less bulk than a camera with a water-proof housing so it slips nicely into your pocket at the end of the ride.
Can't find the info on the brand at the moment but if I do, I'll post it.
RM

[jimshaw]

It's hard to even contemplate the variety of cameras out there for sale. Regardless of any other feature, size, zoom power, and so forth, the one most important feature for me is image stabilization (IS). One brand now calls it anti-shake.

If you are going to take hand held photos, it's your only chance to be sure of sharp images.

Optical IS tends to be better than digital IS. Some models offer both. For me, Optical IS is a minimum requirement.

DSLRs offer much better control of depth of field, and much better image 'depth.' They are generally better in low light, too. For that, you pay with a large and heavier camera. A DSLR is almost impossible to use while riding.

Another feature that I find important for shooting from a moving bike is a wider angle lens. Lots of cameras offer huge zoom ranges, but the widest angle setting is still fairly narrow. A wide angle lens (like 25-28 mm equivalent (to a 35 mm camera)) when added to IS will allow some fairly sharp shots while riding.

Even if you just shoot people on the ground, the wider angle lens allows you to get closer. This makes the flash much more effective. Most small point-and-shoot cameras have pretty wimpy flashes. They are not much beyond 5 feet away. With a wider angle lens, you can shoot the same portrait at 3 feet, and the flash is effective, even, and under control.

If you attempt to shoot video from a moving bike, you especially want IS and a <28mm equiv. lens. That's what makes the Hero camera so well liked.

Oh, and waterproof. If you simply hold the camera, and have a place like your tank bag to stow it, fine. But a solidly mounted camera is a rain magnet. Murphy lives. You don't want to have to pull over and stop if it starts to sprinkle, or worse.

SO, recapping MY opinion: DSLRs for high quality, control, image depth. Not for hand held shooting in motion on a bike. IS is a minimum requirement unless every shot uses a tripod or unipod. Buy a camera with a wider angle zoom lens, 28mm or less. Frosting on the cake: additional optical viewfinder, or an LCD screen you can read in direct sun. Slim and light for your shirt pocket. Battery life you can live with. A camera you can shoot without looking at it (while riding).

Oh, and widely standardized SDHC capacity, not non-standard memory cards like Sony memory sticks. Even Sony has abandoned them.

If I had my druthers, I'd carry a small, thin, wide angle, IS camera in my pocket.
I'd have a DSLR (optional) with 28mm - >80mm in my top case.

And extra batteries and memory cards for both.

Oh, and one more thing: Before you go to all the expense of a decent camera, and the trouble of carrying it with you, make sure there's someone (possibly more) that might, just by chance, want to see your photos. That someone may be you.

I quit carrying a camera unless I'm doing a photojournalism piece. Nobody wants to be bored by my photos. I'd rather make an effort to remember what gold Aspens looked like. YMMV.

Most of my pictures just use words.

Jim

[Voni]

Most of my pictures just use words.

Jim



And at THAT you are a virtuoso, Jim!

My only requirement is that you have it with you. That means small, easy to carry and tough. Most cameras are much smarter than us users. So, my advice is to get to know what your camera does well, check out those special settings, and do lots of that.

Lots of that gives you lots of lessons. And memories that make you sMile!

Voni
doing that

[GrafikFeat]

I must say... Watching some ones bike videos is kinda like watching porn...
Yer sittin' there viewing something you'd rather be doing. :whistle

It's also like watching someones home movies of their kids school play... ZZZzzz... :hungover

[rocketman]

It's hard to even contemplate the variety of cameras out there for sale. Regardless of any other feature, size, zoom power, and so forth, the one most important feature for me is image stabilization (IS). One brand now calls it anti-shake.

If you are going to take hand held photos, it's your only chance to be sure of sharp images.

Optical IS tends to be better than digital IS. Some models offer both. For me, Optical IS is a minimum requirement.

DSLRs offer much better control of depth of field, and much better image 'depth.' They are generally better in low light, too. For that, you pay with a large and heavier camera. A DSLR is almost impossible to use while riding.

Another feature that I find important for shooting from a moving bike is a wider angle lens. Lots of cameras offer huge zoom ranges, but the widest angle setting is still fairly narrow. A wide angle lens (like 25-28 mm equivalent (to a 35 mm camera)) when added to IS will allow some fairly sharp shots while riding.

Even if you just shoot people on the ground, the wider angle lens allows you to get closer. This makes the flash much more effective. Most small point-and-shoot cameras have pretty wimpy flashes. They are not much beyond 5 feet away. With a wider angle lens, you can shoot the same portrait at 3 feet, and the flash is effective, even, and under control.

If you attempt to shoot video from a moving bike, you especially want IS and a <28mm equiv. lens. That's what makes the Hero camera so well liked.

Oh, and waterproof. If you simply hold the camera, and have a place like your tank bag to stow it, fine. But a solidly mounted camera is a rain magnet. Murphy lives. You don't want to have to pull over and stop if it starts to sprinkle, or worse.

SO, recapping MY opinion: DSLRs for high quality, control, image depth. Not for hand held shooting in motion on a bike. IS is a minimum requirement unless every shot uses a tripod or unipod. Buy a camera with a wider angle zoom lens, 28mm or less. Frosting on the cake: additional optical viewfinder, or an LCD screen you can read in direct sun. Slim and light for your shirt pocket. Battery life you can live with. A camera you can shoot without looking at it (while riding).

Oh, and widely standardized SDHC capacity, not non-standard memory cards like Sony memory sticks. Even Sony has abandoned them.

If I had my druthers, I'd carry a small, thin, wide angle, IS camera in my pocket.
I'd have a DSLR (optional) with 28mm - >80mm in my top case.

And extra batteries and memory cards for both.

Oh, and one more thing: Before you go to all the expense of a decent camera, and the trouble of carrying it with you, make sure there's someone (possibly more) that might, just by chance, want to see your photos. That someone may be you.

I quit carrying a camera unless I'm doing a photojournalism piece. Nobody wants to be bored by my photos. I'd rather make an effort to remember what gold Aspens looked like. YMMV.

Most of my pictures just use words.

Jim



I'd concur with most of that except that with a DSLR, just like the old SLR's in normal outdoor lighting with anything under a 200MM telephoto lens you can take very clear and sharp pictures without IS. One of the big advantages of a SLR is the fact that they have a high detail, easy to see thru viewfinder and when you are holding the camera up to your eye, pressed against your face, your body is effectively acting as a three-point tripod, your two arms and face. Even the way you hold it can make a differance, a longer lens requires that you hold the lens itself with one hand while the other is on the body working the controls. Its with longer lens (or close-up i.e. 18 inches or less) where the need for a tripod comes in (without P&S). With P&S cameras since you are holding them at arms length and that introduces a lot more motion since you simply can't hold them as steady. There are also several types of IS out now with many cameras coming with 2 or three modes for stills, panning or turned off.

My Nikon D80 does not have IS and gets great sharp shots, though it does partly come from tons of practice over the years. I do have an IS 300MM telephoto and on that the IS really helps esp. when I start to really crop the image but it also weighs in a good 20% more than my non IS 300, that can take its toll on an all day outing. That equipment get heavy as the day goes on and you have no place to stash it!

One other factor people tend to overlook is start-up time and Auto focus speed. Some cameras are pretty slow with the auto focus and that can lead to missed shots since the time between pressing the shutter and when the picture is actually taken makes all the difference between capturing that "moment" or missing it. Its amazing how quickly things change, an expression or a certain pose, or with action shots its down to mere moments a half second may not seem like much but when shooting it can make a Huge difference! Something we don't realize until we try to capture it. I never buy a camera I can't have some face time with. Ten minutes play time can tell you loads about how it acts and reacts to your input.


RM

[rocketman]

Three waterproof, dust-proof and shockproof (and even temperature resistant to cold) cameras I've been looking at are..

The Olympus Stylus tough

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41a4miP9v3L._SL160_AA115_.jpg

the Pentax Optio W series

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41tOhXPmVgL._SL160_AA115_.jpg

Fuji FinePix Z33WP

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cNCSQKlKL._SL160_AA115_.jpg

all have some nice features with the Fuji having the setting to take pic at given intervals, that would be great on a bike. set to a fairly short interval and you could make a fun time-delayed mini movie.

There are also some inexpensive options like a water proof clear camera bag like the one below, flexible so you still work the controls and allows for the lens of a standard P&S to adjust

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41kkK9BxxDL._SL160_AA115_.jpg

Of course that will degrade the image quality some since the lens is shooting thru the bag material and that area over the lens could get scratched up over time, but at 20 some bux not a big replacement expense for the protection it gives.

RM

[PAULBACH]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PaulBach/ClipArt/f9700112.jpg
Ansel Adams

For casual shots the smaller the camera the better. I like one that fits in the cell phone pocket of my riding jacket. I carry the cell phone elsewhere and turn it out once or twice a day.

The best pictures always seem to be the ones you never stop and take - be patient with yourself.

Always carry your camera with you - no big deal now. One of the best photographers or the 20th century, Ansel Adams, always carried his camera one of the reasons he got so many memorial pictures; that plus his ability and eye. The story that goes with the above picture may be urban legend but it does illustrate the point.

Adams was driving in the Southwest and supposedly was listening to a fireside chat by FDR. He pulled over to listen carefully and found the above vista in front on him. He set up his camera and shot the picture. I wonder if the story is true since FDR gave his fireside chats in the evening. If Adams took this moon light picture in the evening the time differential would have put the fireside chat around 10 or 11 in Washington. However the basic concept is sound - always carry a camera with you.

Ansel Adams cameras were huge compared to today's digital wonders and somehow he managed to always have a camera with him.

[GrafikFeat]

Adams was driving in the Southwest and supposedly was listening to a fireside chat by FDR. He pulled over to listen carefully and found the above vista in front on him. He set up his camera and shot the picture. I wonder if the story is true since FDR gave his fireside chats in the evening. If Adams took this moon light picture in the evening the time differential would have put the fireside chat around 10 or 11 in Washington. However the basic concept is sound - always carry a camera with you.

Ansel Adams cameras were huge compared to today's digital wonders and somehow he managed to always have a camera with him.

The way Ansel Adams worked his images with his zone system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_system) this could be at 2AM.

I always had a camera with me. From the age of 14 when i got my first SLR to my First Digital @42. Having camera gear with you was a norm.
Camera bags were always packed w/ lenses, film, maybe a second camera back, film cans, meters and an emergency change bag in case the film broke in the camera.
Size/bulk wasn't an issue if you had nothing to measure it against. You took what was needed and packed it the best you could and of course accessible. It was what it was.

Part of the problem today is we've become too sped up.
Take a lesson from the story above. Pull over, stop and listen to spot where you are and take a moment. Soak it up.
Not all shots have to be from the seat of your motorcycle.

Such as these. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/jim_popper/sets/72157621934944633/)

It's all part of the ride and besides, why do you want it to end so soon?

[rocketman]

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g264/PaulBach/ClipArt/f9700112.jpg
Ansel Adams



The best pictures always seem to be the ones you never stop and take - be patient with yourself.

Always carry your camera with you - no big deal now. One of the best photographers or the 20th century, Ansel Adams, always carried his camera one of the reasons he got so many memorial pictures; that plus his ability and eye. The story that goes with the above picture may be urban legend but it does illustrate the point.



Yup, couldn't agree more, I always have one with me, even if it just my simplest P&S. One of the best shots I ever took (IMO) was with a 3.1 megapixel, but it was Because I had it with me that I got that shot (and I try to always scan for possibilities though its easy to become distracted by reality!). Looking at the shot you'd think it was "staged" but in fact it was just one of those "Wow, that's kool" moments and a shot I often refer to when talking about always being prepared for one in million shot.

RM

[jimshaw]

I think we have trundled quite a distance from a camera to replace a point and shoot to the photographic genius of Ansel Adams. (I am looking at a hand signed original Ansel print above my monitor as I write.)

I once trudged through Bryce and Zion with a Speed Graphic, studio tripod (and a Jeep). Yeah, I always had the rather unportable camera with me - rather like having an elephant in the back seat. If I tried (who'd want to?), I could strap the big steel camera travel case on the back of the GS. Forget the studio tripod. Adams usually used an 8x10 view camera. And, in later years, at least one assistant. Consider that Adams did all of his own darkroom work, too. I am assured that he personally printed every print he signed. Is this the league we are joining?

I think we are here to consider more modest means; and digital, to boot.

I stand by my recommendation of an optically stabilized lens. No other camera feature will provide more sharp shots, especially when you are hand holding the camera. Brag as you will about how steady you are, but you likely aren't. Your images may look OK on the camera LCD, or printed 4 x 6. But, unless you have the talents of a professional, use IS. Even the pro news photogs use it.

Optical IS is the single most valuable feature you can buy in a travel camera.

Argue otherwise, but all the newest quality digitals are offering IS, mostly optical. It doesn't cost a huge premium, but (except with DSLR lens replacement) you cannot add it later. Make it a minimum feature, especially in your smallest camera.

Ansel Adams notwithstanding.

Jim

[marchyman]

I stand by my recommendation of an optically stabilized lens. No other camera feature will provide more sharp shots, especially when you are hand holding the camera. Brag as you will about how steady you are, but you likely aren't. Your images may look OK on the camera LCD, or printed 4 x 6. But, unless you have the talents of a professional, use IS. Even the pro news photogs use it.

IS is a tool. And like all tools there is a time when its use is not appropriate. While it would be on my list of important features for a P&S, a wide angle (at least 24 mm using 35mm equiv values) is higher up on my priority list. Many P&S max out at 28 mm.

I travel with a P&S in my tank bag... it's a beater camera, about 5 megapixels, used to take pictures when moving. It doesn't have IS. IS would be wasted the way this camera is used. The resulting images are destined for 800x600 pixels on a web page.

I also travel with a DSLR and 3 lenses in my tail bag. Only one of the three has IS. The lens I currently use most (24-70) does not have IS. It replaced a lens with IS because the 24-70 is a higher quality lens that delivers sharper images. It's also faster. Given the choice between an f/3.5-5.6 with IS and an f/2.8 without IS I'll usually go with the faster lens.

A gorillapod doen't take up much space in my saddle bags.

[jimshaw]

Your tag line says it all. You just like to argue. :blah

Jim ;)

[jimshaw]

I good story, related badly:

About six years ago, I was at the University of Michigan for a show of Ansel Adams' folios. A friend who knew I owned an Adams print suggested I go to the opening. They had all of Adams' folios arranged in order by issue. Quite a nice exhibit.

A docent was there. He did a little gallery talk before some of us saw the exhibit. The docent had been a student of Adams', and had attended one of his many schools out in Yosemite. Adams did those schools for years, and everybody in the class stayed at the Inn. They would gather for breakfast at an appointed hour in the Inn breakfast room, and all sit together.

One morning, Adams and his wife were late in arriving. His instructor had taken the head chair at the table, and when Adams and his wife arrived, they quietly sat at a small table, adjacent to the group.

Apparently, an unrelated inn guest had heard that the great Ansel Adams was in the hotel, and could be found in the dining room. This fellow was determined to get a photo of himself with the Master.

Assuming Adams was at the head of the table, he walked up to the instructor, and asked if he might have his companion take a picture of him with the Master. Maybe not quite figuring it out in time, the instructor agreed.

The fellow posed with the instructor, while his female companion positioned herself and camera to get the shot she thought she needed. That required asking the nice couple sitting at the adjacent table to move out of the way. They, of course, politely agreed.

The docent said the other students could hardly contain themselves, but Adams and his wife just smiled.

This is not just hearsay; the docent told us. :)

--

Flash Gordon, famed motorcycle medical columnist for Motorcycle Consumer News, once wrote me with an even better story about how he, Flash, once asked Ansel Adams, in person, if he knew what 'depth of field' meant.

I'll let him tell that one, some day, if he wants.

Jim

[rocketman]

I stand by my recommendation of an optically stabilized lens. No other camera feature will provide more sharp shots, especially when you are hand holding the camera. Brag as you will about how steady you are, but you likely aren't. Your images may look OK on the camera LCD, or printed 4 x 6. But, unless you have the talents of a professional, use IS. Even the pro news photogs use it.

Optical IS is the single most valuable feature you can buy in a travel camera.

Argue otherwise, but all the newest quality digitals are offering IS, mostly optical. It doesn't cost a huge premium, but (except with DSLR lens replacement) you cannot add it later. Make it a minimum feature, especially in your smallest camera.

Ansel Adams notwithstanding.

Jim

I apologize if I upset or antagonized you (judging by the Brag comment, one could equally make the claim that your comment about having a signed print by Ansel as bragging and one I assume would be equally wrong; but I digress), if you re-read my statements you'll see I was actually mostly in agreement with you. My argument was simply that IS should not be the overriding factor in ALL situations. There are simply too many factors involved, and merely attempted to show one example, such as missing a shot due to shutter lag from slow auto-focus.
While it may be true many or most pro photographers of the type you mentioned consider IS as a priority , news photography often involves very long lens and situations where there is a lot of jostling for the best position so IS could well become a factor, but that does not necessarily hold true for the average person or the type of photographer we have here. Consider too that many folks never ever make prints or do much cropping, more and more we share our photos by means of digital image displays where fine detail is limited by the resolution of the screen, so those imperfections from lack of IS that might manifest itself in larger paper prints is never relieved.
Again I am Not trying to "dis" you, I am simply stating my opinion as are you in the hopes that other can learn and decide what is important for the type of photography they may be interested in.

This after all, is why I suggested the formation of this forum area several years ago, to allow the forum membership with an interest in photography to share our shots and knowledge and views and perhaps provide others some useful information.

Jeff
AKA
Rocketman

[GrafikFeat]

Optical IS is the single most valuable feature you can buy in a travel camera.


A monopod helps too.

[PAULBACH]

A monopod helps too.

:thumb It is amazing how much sharper my photos are when using a monopod!

[marchyman]

Your tag line says it all. You just like to argue. :blah

Jim ;)

Busted! :laugh

[marchyman]

Also, the Ansel Adams moonrise shot story is told by his son Michael (who was there) in this video: http://www.silberstudios.tv/previous-shows/ansel-adams-home/

The story starts about 1 minute into the video.

[jimshaw]

This after all, is why I suggested the formation of this forum area several years ago, to allow the forum membership with an interest in photography to share our shots and knowledge and views and perhaps provide others some useful information.

I applaud you for being a pioneer in Forum photography. And, it's OK with me if you believe you don't need image stabilization. Clearly, you believe you don't. But, it's not OK with me if folks believe you and follow this part of your advice to the detriment of their hand-held motorcycle travel photos.

If you don't have a second chance to shoot the picture, IS can greatly help to assure you capture it well, the first time. If you find it more manly to shoot without it, just turn it off, and take what you get.

If it didn't help, it wouldn't be offered on a huge majority of fine cameras.

Jim

[PAULBACH]

Also, the Ansel Adams moonrise shot story is told by his son Michael (who was there) in this video: http://www.silberstudios.tv/previous-shows/ansel-adams-home/

The story starts about 1 minute into the video.

GREAT LINK There is a treasure trove of information there!

THANK YOU!

[kgadley01]

Lots of good info here. I have one thing to add. make sure your new Camera has a Viewfinder. I love my Nikon digital pocket Camera, but its very hard to use in bright sunlight. my next one will have a viewfinder...

[rocketman]

I applaud you for being a pioneer in Forum photography. And, it's OK with me if you believe you don't need image stabilization. Clearly, you believe you don't. But, it's not OK with me if folks believe you and follow this part of your advice to the detriment of their hand-held motorcycle travel photos.

If you don't have a second chance to shoot the picture, IS can greatly help to assure you capture it well, the first time. If you find it more manly to shoot without it, just turn it off, and take what you get.

If it didn't help, it wouldn't be offered on a huge majority of fine cameras.

Jim

Hmm, what can I say, the use of insults to make a point, is well, pointless and hardly conducive to an informative discussion. You win, I'm done with this.

RM

[jimshaw]

Lots of good info here. I have one thing to add. make sure your new Camera has a Viewfinder. I love my Nikon digital pocket Camera, but its very hard to use in bright sunlight. my next one will have a viewfinder...

I was starting to think I was the only one who still ever uses optical viewfinders. Bravo. The trouble is, in point and shoot cameras, they seem to be getting hard to find.

You are right, though. Those LCD screens can be almost impossible to see in bright sun. I'm contemplating my next digital camera for this summer, and the other features I want, need and use seem to come on point and shoot cameras that have done away with the optical viewfinder. If I can find one with all that I need (see the early post - before that silly argument about stabilization - you'll see the other features I like), I'll put it on the top of the list.

And blame Voni Glaves for intimidating me into returning to riding with a camera, again. If she can remember to put captions on her pics, I guess I can add pictures to some words I write.

All the manufacturers just introduced their 2010 models, so it's study time. The good news seems to be that all that competition is bringing useful tech (especially wider angle zoom lenses) at reasonable prices. Happy shooting. Happier riding,

Jim

[Voni]

We'll all be richer for it, Jim LOL

Voni
sMiling

[jimshaw]

All the manufacturers just introduced their 2010 models, so it's study time. The good news seems to be that all that competition is bringing useful tech (especially wider angle zoom lenses) at reasonable prices.
Jim

Along these lines, I've been keeping an eye on the latest new camera offerings, particularly as to what I want in a new point-and-shoot (hereafter PAS) unit. Previously, I tried to put forth what YOU might want. They may overlap at points. Or not.

The new Samsung TLC350 (http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Samsung-TL350-First-Impression-Digital-Camera-Review-21549.htm) (vaporware, announced but not shipping yet) looks hot. It has two IS methods. It has a 5x 24mm Schneider wide angle zoom lens. (I've been using Schneider lenses since my darkroom days, with admiration.) It doesn't have an optical viewfinder, but it does have an AMOLED screen, that should be brighter, sharper, and easier to see in the sunshine. It uses SD/SDHC cards, which are common. It shoots 1080p video, and has an HDMI output for an HD TV. It uses a rechargeable battery (which is both good and bad). I would have to carry a spare, and keep it charged.

The camera seems to have every feature I want in a PAS, and is a pocket camera to boot. It can save 10MP (enough) shots in RAW file format; that is important for me doing photojournalism. It can save in JPEG too, which is what is good enough, otherwise.

The TLC350 can do some other stuff that is frosting on MY cake: shoot 10fps bursts to catch action shots, snap up to 1/1500th sec shots to stop action, shoot slow motion at up to 1000 fps (!), and allows enough control to allow the photog to have some say over depth of field.

I have also looked at some of the new Nikon and Canon PAS introductions. They have some similar offerings, but none caught my eye quite like the specs on this Samsung. That said, I carried a vintage Nikon FM2 around the world many times, and I have a soft spot for Nikon. Also, the MSLP for the TLC350 is $349, within my budget (by $1).

It may not be the camera I buy. With 13 inches of snow on the ground here, I have some time to shop.

Again, this isn't necessarily a solution for you. You might want something much simpler, or a more complex DSLR, or one of the new "4/3" cameras. But, it shows what I want in features in a PAS that can provide photos good enough for publication. I has to be capable of taking very good pictures. To me, that starts with a clarity and depth that tends to make a flat paper photo look deep in color, shadow and shade. You have to train your eyes to see this quality; sheer pixels and bits aren't it. All I have to do is try to get the composition right, and not drop the damn thing in a creek.

We'll see if the Samsung TLC350 has any rude surprises when some early adopters (not me) test fly them. Meanwhile, pass me that Nikon and Canon catalog, again...

Jim

Postscript: This is probably way too much camera for the typical rider who wants to take pictures of friends, bikes, and scenery. This is a pretty serious business camera. Consider that, and take my comments in context. I'm buying the camera for me. -S

[jimshaw]

Updated

[Kenn45]

The new Olympus E-PN 1 and 2 look interesting, if expensive. Sort of combine the aspects of a point and shoot and a DSLR

[GrantMacEachern]

The new Olympus E-PN 1 and 2 look interesting, if expensive. Sort of combine the aspects of a point and shoot and a DSLR

got one for my birthday.
returned it.
it is too limited.
and, it was an olympus.

not a critical review here.
just what i did.

[GlobeBusters]

I bought one of these a few months back, takes excellent pics and HD video, I am very happy. Has most of what you are looking for, incl stabilization, and has a wide 25mm lens on the low side. Personally I find a wide lens much more useful than a super zoom.

http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Digital-Cameras/Lumix-Digital-Cameras/model.DMC-ZS3S?loomia_si=1

Good reviews on this too.

If you want to check out some camers reviews, try Steve's digicam web site, I find it very helpful.

Totally agree - four guys on our Trans Americas 2009 expedition had these and raved about them. great quality from small pocket camera.

[jimshaw]

Yep, this Panasonic looks like my second choice. The wide angle lens and image stabilization are minimum requirements for me. In my book, a shaky shot is no shot.

I am close to pushing the buy button on the Samsung TL320. The TL350 doesn't seem as though it's going to be ready in time for some travel I have coming up, and they are selling out the TL320 at $199 at Beach's. Compared to other cameras with similar hands on reviews, it is looking like a bargain.

I have not found long zoom ranges very useful to me in the past. YMMV. A 25mm equiv. wide angle lens is about what I want for that quick shot while riding.

With a $200 price on the Samsung, I'll feel a little less suicidal when I drop it in the creek.

Just thinking out loud,

Jim :1drink

[Voni]

STILL loving my Panasonic! It had a problem with the focus zooming in and out. Sent it in and in 8 days I had a new reconditioned RED camera.

Love they stand behind their product~

Voni
sMiling

[Voni]

Today only, WOOT has the refurbished Panasonic for $99 WITH an SD card, battery, and carrying case!

What a deal!

Voni
sMiling